T-Minus (3) Days Until VEGA!!

[Ploki]

thiis is what happens on the i9 ifi radeon has to work while cpu si fully utilized.

"work" here is scrolling macrumors, single tab open, only safari open...
Not 3D rendering.
it dropped all the way to 1.5GHz.

It drops to 2.6 if it has to "work" on the UHD whlie cpu is full utilized.

i chuckled, then cried because it was so expensive.

This wont be fixed with a software update.

so... if you plan to use thiis in clamshell mode,... good luck with that

 

[CodeJoy]

thiis is what happens on the i9 ifi radeon has to work while cpu si fully utilized.

"work" here is scrolling macrumors, single tab open, only safari open...
Not 3D rendering.
it dropped all the way to 1.5GHz.

It drops to 2.6 if it has to "work" on the UHD whlie cpu is full utilized.

i chuckled, then cried because it was so expensive.

This wont be fixed with a software update.

so... if you plan to use thiis in clamshell mode,... good luck with that

View attachment 803693

Dude, scrolling macrumours is not "work" for any GPU out of the last few decades. Not sure what you're trying to prove here, but whatever it is, you didn't.

 

[leman]

thiis is what happens on the i9 ifi radeon has to work while cpu si fully utilized.

As I already told you, your machine is obviously defective. That’s not how a MBP with an i9 behaves.

 

[Ploki]

Dude, scrolling macrumours is not "work" for any GPU out of the last few decades. Not sure what you're trying to prove here, but whatever it is, you didn't.

I was trying to prove that when the CPU is at 100% utilization and the GPU has to do anything *at all* the speed drops to 1.5GHz.
[doublepost=1542099715][/doublepost]

As I already told you, your machine is obviously defective. That’s not how a MBP with an i9 behaves.

I surely hope so, because this is beyond abysmal. under no circumstance should CPU drop to 1.35GHz because you do something on it GPU has to refresh screen whili browsing.

Also, - tihis is the first thing i tried with discrete GPU enabled

 

[koyoot]

thiis is what happens on the i9 ifi radeon has to work while cpu si fully utilized.

"work" here is scrolling macrumors, single tab open, only safari open...
Not 3D rendering.
it dropped all the way to 1.5GHz.

It drops to 2.6 if it has to "work" on the UHD whlie cpu is full utilized.

i chuckled, then cried because it was so expensive.

This wont be fixed with a software update.

so... if you plan to use thiis in clamshell mode,... good luck with that

View attachment 803693

Uhhh...

What are you doing on your computer that forces Radeon to run, instead of Integrated GPU?

 

[Ploki]

Uhhh...

What are you doing on your computer that forces Radeon to run, instead of Integrated GPU?

That's beside the point here - i switched iti manually.

I tried scrolling on this forum while on integrated gpu and saw cpu drop to 2.6 at worst. Saw that frequency dropped as GT (graphics chip) increased.
Switched to radeon GPU because it would offload the GPU from the CPU package and i incorrectly assumed that it would throttle less. As iit stands, it throttles more.. (significantly more)

 

[koyoot]

That's beside the point here - i switched iti manually.

I tried scrolling on this forum while on integrated gpu and saw cpu drop to 2.6 at worst. Saw that frequency dropped as GT (graphics chip) increased.
Switched to radeon GPU because it would offload the GPU from the CPU package and i incorrectly assumed that it would throttle less. As iit stands, it throttles more.. (significantly more)

Of course it will throttle. It has 6, power hungry cores, on architecture that is extremely dense.

Let me give you an example. There is a very good reason why you have troubles with fanlessly cooling the Coffee Lake CPUs, despite the fact that they are 35W TDP CPUs(They are not I7 8700T is more like... 86W TDP CPU, but we should know perfectly well this by now).

https://en.wikichip.org/w/images/3/39/coffee_lake_die_(hexa_core)_(annotated).png

This is Coffee Lake die shot.

Core are very close together, and the heat is concetrated in that one spot. It is very hard to cool it, especially passively. This is the very reason why simple Core i3 7300T heats up to 78 degrees in passive mode, with TWO 120 case fans, while other CPUs heat up, in the same scenario to just 56 degrees. Lower core density helps in dissipating heat.

And GPUs are also very dense designs.

 

[Ploki]

Of course it will throttle. It has 6, power hungry cores, on architecture that is extremely dense.

Let me give you an example. There is a very good reason why you have troubles with fanlessly cooling the Coffee Lake CPUs, despite the fact that they are 35W TDP CPUs(They are not I7 8700T is more like... 86W TDP CPU, but we should know perfectly well this by now).

And GPUs are also very dense designs.

I still dont thinik iti's acceptable for the CPU to throttle to 1,35GHz under load when you scroll a webpage.
They should redesign it if that were the case, not sell it.


now either i developed a horrible tiick in the last two weeks or my "i" on the keyboard isi getting worse.

 

[dan9700]

Is it available tomorrow

 

[0-0]

I still dont thinik iti's acceptable for the CPU to throttle to 1,35GHz under load when you scroll a webpage.
They should redesign it if that were the case, not sell it.


now either i developed a horrible tiick in the last two weeks or my "i" on the keyboard isi getting worse.

I thought this was nornal. Isn't the CPU supoosed to clock down as scrolling on a web page isn't taxing therefore it is saving battery life?

 

[puma1552]

I can't wait to see the bitching about the prices that is about to ensue...

 

[cube]

Is there a proper Vega 64 vs RTX 2070 shootout (not just games, and including thermals) ?

I am thinking about Red Devil, so we are talking about $600.

Yes, there's still 10-bit and FreeSync.

 

[0-0]

Can't wait to order the i9 Vega combo

 

[Ploki]

I thought this was nornal. Isn't the CPU supoosed to clock down as scrolling on a web page isn't taxing therefore it is saving battery life?

if the CPU is tasked 100% and it should be working 100% it should not clock down 1,5GHz Below base speed for scrolling, especially when NOT on battery power.

 

[koyoot]

I still dont thinik iti's acceptable for the CPU to throttle to 1,35GHz under load when you scroll a webpage.
They should redesign it if that were the case, not sell it.


now either i developed a horrible tiick in the last two weeks or my "i" on the keyboard isi getting worse.

Skylake architecture was not initially designed to work in higher than 4C/8T designes, for the mainstream platform.

 

[_Kiki_]

thiis is what happens on the i9 ifi radeon has to work while cpu si fully utilized.

"work" here is scrolling macrumors, single tab open, only safari open...
Not 3D rendering.
it dropped all the way to 1.5GHz.

It drops to 2.6 if it has to "work" on the UHD whlie cpu is full utilized.

i chuckled, then cried because it was so expensive.

This wont be fixed with a software update.

so... if you plan to use thiis in clamshell mode,... good luck with that

View attachment 803693

maybe cores are uneven?
or other mass production defect, doesn't matter if you paid €1000 or €5000 you still can get lemon

Is there a proper Vega 64 vs RTX 2070 shootout (not just games, and including thermals) ?

I am thinking about Red Devil, so we are talking about $600.

Yes, there's still 10-bit and FreeSync.

Where do you have true 10-bit?
you need professional grade GPU to achieve that

 

[Ploki]

I thought this was nornal. Isn't the CPU supoosed to clock down as scrolling on a web page isn't taxing therefore it is saving battery life?

oh you misunderstood me completely!
Yes what you say is correct.
What isn't supposed to happen:
CPU is running 100% on all cores, doing what its doing (rendering, whatever), running at steady 3,0GHz.

THEN you scroll while CPU is under load, meaning GPU has to put in some work, and because of *GPU doing some work*, CPU throttles to 1,5GHz

 

[IdentityCrisis]

Uhhh...

What are you doing on your computer that forces Radeon to run, instead of Integrated GPU?

Video rendering hits both gpu and cpu. And since they both use the same cooling pipes, I expect it to be much hotter.

 

[Billy Shears]

Is Vega 16 going to replace the 560x completely for the higher-end model, or is it going to be optional?

 

[ilikewhey]

I can't wait to see the bitching about the prices that is about to ensue...

i'm getting my popcorn ready. the overwhelming of folks reporting overheating is gonna be hilarious

 

[Ploki]

i'm getting my popcorn ready. the overwhelming of folks reporting overheating is gonna be hilarious

This is hilariously sad

 

[fenderbass146]

Where is this three day timeline coming...website says late November?

 

[ilikewhey]

i honestly don't see how this is NOT a receipt for overheating, lets go over some facts shall we?

1) current i7 & i9 are pushing and exceeding thermal limit of the thin and small heatsink of the mbp. when i have this issue on my gaming pc i go out and buy a bigger heat sink, like a noctua d14 and d15.

2) the vega chipset was released with poor thermal management, rushed labor, and not to mention raj, the guy who made vega possible left amd as soon as vega was released. apparently amd pulled his funding for vega halfway and put it towards amd's xbox and ps4 division.

upon release the buyers had to underclock their vega out of the box just to get a decent temperature.

in conclusion, apple basically put a power hungry vega chipset(revised i'm sure, but the principle core is still the same) into a alrdy thermal stressed chassis of the mbp.

 

[koyoot]

2) the vega chipset was released with poor thermal management, rushed labor, and not to mention raj, the guy who made vega possible left amd as soon as vega was released. apparently amd pulled his funding for vega halfway and put it towards amd's xbox and ps4 division.

Have you ever thought that Vega GPU in MBP will have 35W Power Limit?

The Vega GPU you are talking about, has very little to do with Vega which will land in MBP. It is the same architecture. But apart from that - it is different chip.

 

[leman]

1) current i7 & i9 are pushing and exceeding thermal limit of the thin and small heatsink of the mbp.

False. All Coffee Lake CPUs run at or above advertised spec on the 2018 MBP. Which means able to operate pretty much indefinitely on multi-core workflows while drawing 45 watts (the TDP) and running at or above their minimal (base clock). My i9 has no problem maintaining 3.2Ghz (0.3 Ghz over its advertises spec) in this scenario. In single-threaded workouts it reaches 4.5Ghz (which is very close to its real single-core turbo boost of 4.6 Ghz). We had a thread here comparing results — there are many people who's CPUs run slightly better than mine, but this is down to silicone lottery.

Yes, larger gaming laptops with more cooling power perform better — but this doesn't mean that the MBP performs poorly.

the vega chipset was released with poor thermal management, rushed labor, and not to mention raj, the guy who made vega possible left amd as soon as vega was released. apparently amd pulled his funding for vega halfway and put it towards amd's xbox and ps4 division.

Yes, Vega 10 had some issues, primarily since AMD was forced to compete with Nvidia and its better high-end performance (so they overclocked the cards beyond reasonable limits). Vega 12 uses different internal configuration, a significantly narrower memory bus (1024 bit vs 2048 bit), its die-thinned and probably also uses a different interposer. We know nothing of its thermal properties. I would abstain from drawing conclusions from its larger brethren. Not to mention there is a precedent: AMD and Apple already managed to have a Polaris chip that consumes half the power of the desktop version while running more CUs and offering competitive performance.