Carrier T-Mobile Uncarrier Mess

[bryan85]

Only way it's truly no contract is if you pay upfront for the device in full. Otherwise you are obligated to stay with them.

Let me break it down

Old plan: for unlimited unthrottled everything it was 89.99 per month, you pat 200 upfront for the phone, and you have 14 days.

If 2 months into it you decide "you know what? I changed my mind about this service" then there is a 200 dollar ETF.


With the new plan: unlimited unthrottled everything is 70 and you want a new phone its 100 plus 20 dollars a month for 20 months.

Same scenario, 2 months in you decide you don't want it anymore, you can't simply cancel service and still be responsible for making payments on time for the device, no, you have to pay the remaining 360 right away. If it were like your (flawed) analogy with the car financing, you'd still be responsible for monthly payments, but instead they decide they want it all.

The cost of cutting service BEFORE the new plan = 200
Thr cost of cutting service AFTER the new plan = 360


So yes, it's STILL a contract.

They just made it on the device, but the sneaky part is you HAVE TO pay for service as well to keep making monthly device payments.


That's why they had problems, the government regulated how high ETF's can be, so they couldn't call it an ETF.

But technically contracts are still here. Only way to avoid them is still to bring your own device.

I understand what your saying, but respectfully disagree that it is still a contract. I could have charged the phones to my credit card, but I chose to finance them at T-Mobile for 0%. It was my choice and allowed me to make a net positive(financially) move from AT&T to T-Mobile.

Additionally if you want to compare apples to apples here, you would need to put $200 down on the new plan, not $100. That would leave you with a theoretical difference of $60 under the new plan. You also have to include the $35 activation fee under the old plan, $10 under the new one. The brings the theoretical difference down to $35, minus your time traveling expenses.

 

[thehustleman]

I understand what your saying, but respectfully disagree that it is still a contract. I could have charged the phones to my credit card, but I chose to finance them at T-Mobile for 0%. It was my choice and allowed me to make a net positive(financially) move from AT&T to T-Mobile.

Additionally if you want to compare apples to apples here, you would need to put $200 down on the new plan, not $100. That would leave you with a theoretical difference of $60 under the new plan. You also have to include the $35 activation fee under the old plan, $10 under the new one. The brings the theoretical difference down to $35, minus your time traveling expenses.

1. The reason I said 100 is because I always see t-mobile advertising a top phone for 100 down and the phones are typically cheaper on that plan

2. I already said if you buy the phone outright, no there's no contract, BUT if you take the payment plan, you ARE stuck with the service until you pay off the phone. You do sign a contract for that finance plan, so yes, it is a contract unless you pay it off upfront.

 

[MikeyMike01]

I understand what your saying, but respectfully disagree that it is still a contract.

It's definitely not a contract. It's just a fairly straightforward financing plan.

 

[CEmajr]

I really don't see what the purpose of this "is it a contract?/is it not a contract?" debate is.

At the end of the day it's still a better deal than what the other 3 carriers offer because your phone (if you choose to buy one from them), is a separate charge from your rate plan. Which is the way it should be. The other 3 carriers don't drop your bill after you've repaid their "subsidy" so there is no debate.

 

[617aircav]

It's definitely not a contract. It's just a fairly straightforward financing plan.

That you are contractually obligated to complete by keeping service.

 

[jamezr]

I really don't see what the purpose of this "is it a contract?/is it not a contract?" debate is.

At the end of the day it's still a better deal than what the other 3 carriers offer because your phone (if you choose to buy one from them), is a separate charge from your rate plan. Which is the way it should be. The other 3 carriers don't drop your bill after you've repaid their "subsidy" so there is no debate.

Could not agree more. It seems everyone is stuck on the word "contract".
You can pay off what was financed at anytime and you total bill goes down…..

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That you are contractually obligated to complete by keeping service.

Not if you do not have anything financed through them. You can stop at anytime with no early termination fees. There is no contract.

 

[617aircav]

Could not agree more. It seems everyone is stuck on the word "contract".
You can pay off what was financed at anytime and you total bill goes down…..

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Not if you do not have anything financed through them. You can stop at anytime with no early termination fees. There is no contract.

obviously, and that would be the same with any carrier. If they dont give you a phone subsidy, you are free to leave.

 

[TWO2SEVEN]

cut

Any update OP?

 

[thehustleman]

Could not agree more. It seems everyone is stuck on the word "contract".
You can pay off what was financed at anytime and you total bill goes down…..

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Not if you do not have anything financed through them. You can stop at anytime with no early termination fees. There is no contract.

We've already established that it's no contract only if you don't finance the phone and just buy it outright. Otherwise, yes it's a contract, not an annual contract, but until the phone is paid off, you cannot cancel service without being hit with a huge payment.

 

[kingtj]

re: No, it *is* still a mess....

I agree completely about needing to read the contracts, and not to treat service changes like this so lightly.

But that said, he turned in 4 perfectly good, valuable phones as part of an arrangement he now wants to undo, only because T-Mobile isn't capable of providing him with an acceptable level of service in his area. Especially done within the 14 day "grace period" you're normally given, that's a legitimate reason to back out. So the right thing to do is to go ahead and compensate him the trade-in value of the phones, or better yet, just return the phones to him that were traded in.

It sounds to me like T-Mobile simply has no system in place to find a specific customer's device and ship it back to a store? I imagine they've got a 3rd. party company taking all of these trade-ins and liquidating them on their behalf, and T-Mobile just receives some kind of regular bulk payment per however many thousand phones get processed at a time.

So if that's the situation, they owe him a gift card at the very least, for the promised trade-in value. Anything else constitutes stealing his devices, if everything else related to the sign-up is terminated and it's agreed he owes them nothing more.

What you've just learned is its wise to read & comprehend the contract you sign. Now after the fact it's too late. It's not a T-Mobile "mess" it's a good lesson you've learned.

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Pointing the finger when the customer is wrong never works.

 

[jamezr]

We've already established that it's no contract only if you don't finance the phone and just buy it outright. Otherwise, yes it's a contract, not an annual contract, but until the phone is paid off, you cannot cancel service without being hit with a huge payment.

yes...just like any other financial contract. But this is not a contract for cellular service from T-Mobile. The contracts are separate. You can pay the financial contract off at anytime and be free to cancel service without a termination fee. Then when the financial contract is paid off.....your bill will go down. If you buy a subsidized phone from another carrier at say $199 for 2 year contract. At the end of your 2 year contract....your bill will not go down. You still pay the subsidized price for your service even though the phone as been paid off as per the contract.

 

[617aircav]

yes...just like any other financial contract. But this is not a contract for cellular service from T-Mobile. The contracts are separate. You can pay the financial contract off at anytime and be free to cancel service without a termination fee. Then when the financial contract is paid off.....your bill will go down. If you buy a subsidized phone from another carrier at say $199 for 2 year contract. At the end of your 2 year contract....your bill will not go down. You still pay the subsidized price for your service even though the phone as been paid off as per the contract.

Your bill does go down, now with AT&T. Also, before since you were out of contract you could switch to AT&T go phone which is cheaper than the contract monthly charges.

 

[jamezr]

Your bill does go down, now with AT&T. Also, before since you were out of contract you could switch to AT&T go phone which is cheaper than the contract monthly charges.

Correct.....it depends on which contract you signed up for on AT&T. If you bought the iPhone 5s for $199 and 2 year contract your bill will not go down.....ever. Even after the contract is over unless you change the contract as you said. AT&T is offering plans similar to TMO now to be competitive. But the plans are still cheaper on TMO.

 

[thehustleman]

yes...just like any other financial contract. But this is not a contract for cellular service from T-Mobile. The contracts are separate. You can pay the financial contract off at anytime and be free to cancel service without a termination fee. Then when the financial contract is paid off.....your bill will go down. If you buy a subsidized phone from another carrier at say $199 for 2 year contract. At the end of your 2 year contract....your bill will not go down. You still pay the subsidized price for your service even though the phone as been paid off as per the contract.

1. Actually other financial contracts don't come with a service requirement.

If it was no service contract you'd be able to keep making the device payments even after cancelling service.

2. Yes, you can eliminate the service by paying the phone off, but it's the same thing (and possibly more expensive depending on how far in you are ) as the contract only that you'd be paying the 200 bucks.

3. It's just a sneaky (and brilliant) way of doing the contract model unless you buy the phone in full at the start.


4. If it really wasn't a sneaky way to slip in a contract, you'd be able to keep making device payments (per the financing agreement) even if you canceled service. But you cancel service before the phone is paid off, you're hit with an inflated payment (you know, like an ETF) and you can no longer continue the monthly payments.


I don't see why you people can't see that this is what they're doing.

It's better for the consumer and saves them money over a 2 year time frame but the fact remains you are still paying a contract. Yes they separated the service from device, but not completely because the service must continue until the device is paid off.

I can't simplify it any more, it's still a contract, just with better terms, but fact is its a contract if you choose the monthly plan option.

If you still can't comprehend that, then I don't know what to tell you

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Correct.....it depends on which contract you signed up for on AT&T. If you bought the iPhone 5s for $199 and 2 year contract your bill will not go down.....ever. Even after the contract is over unless you change the contract as you said. AT&T is offering plans similar to TMO now to be competitive. But the plans are still cheaper on TMO.

This is true, problem is t-mobile HAS TO BE cheaper, their service is nowhere near as good as AT&T's and especially Verizon.

But if it works in your main areas, it's a no brainer!

 

[dt808]

Need some advice on how to deal with this situation...

Last week my family switched our 4 lines to T-Mobile through their "Uncarrier" deal. We traded in our 4 AT&T iPhones and were given $620 to put towards T-Mobile phones. We chose 4 T-Mobile iPhones. We subsequently had terrible service around Reno and my iPhone 5S could not get service at our home. After trying another 5S, I still could not get service around the house, and the store said my only other choice would be to choose an Android phone. Consequently, I returned our phones to T-Mobile and ported our numbers back to AT&T.

T-Mobile is now telling me that I lost the $620.

Good to know. I live in Reno as well. I was thinking about getting a $30 tmobile prepaid sim and trying it out. Guess I'll stay away.. sorry to hear about your trouble.

 

[mattopotamus]

I don't think they let you have the trade-in value back.

I remember when I traded in an old phone to Best Buy to get my GS4, I had to sign a sheet of paper saying that I won't ever see that phone again, even if I returned the S4. However, I would have gotten a store credit/gift card for the trade-in value.

I recently made the switch to tmobile and they do make you sign something saying you cannot get your phone back and are not entitled to anything or something to that effect. If you make the switch, be sure!

 

[dr.devious]

Any update OP?

No update yet. I have an email and tweet into John Legere. Additionally, the local store escalated this to their corporate account rep who is trying to figure out how to get the $620 back to me.

If those two avenues do not yield results, I have my complaint to the Nevada AG's office ready to go, a complain ready to go to the Better Business Bureau, and I have an appointment with my company's in house attorney scheduled for Wednesday, to see if there are any legal means to solving this problem.

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I recently made the switch to tmobile and they do make you sign something saying you cannot get your phone back and are not entitled to anything or something to that effect. If you make the switch, be sure!

I have a copy of that and it looks like it just says you are not entitled to the phone or the data left on the device but nothing about the credit from trading it in...

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Good to know. I live in Reno as well. I was thinking about getting a $30 tmobile prepaid sim and trying it out. Guess I'll stay away.. sorry to hear about your trouble.

Reno is a mixed bag. If you are in the main valley near downtown you get LTE with strong coverage, if you go downtown you get spotty coverage of both LTE and 3G, and if you live in Spanish Springs, Wingfield, or Lemmon Valley (like me) you get weak 3G, a lot of EDGE, and sometime No Service.

The coverage is GPRS only once you get past Verdi, and you don't pick up EDGE or 3G until you get to Auburn.

 

[rockitdog]

I'm having another issue with T-Mobile where they are cancelling my account because according to them it is illegal to sell their devices. Apparently even if you have paid for a device in full! Total BS!

Anyway, on Friday the 17th I ported 4 of my family members over to T-Mobile and the following Monday I was informed my account was being canceled and I had until the 31st to port the numbers to another carrier. They told me that part of the agreement that we signed stated that any phones traded in were no retrievable and no compensation would be given for them. So we lost Sprint phones too.

I'm currently working with the Minnesota Attorney General's office right now in an effort to fight the bogus rules of T-Mobile.

 

[mattopotamus]

I'm having another issue with T-Mobile where they are cancelling my account because according to them it is illegal to sell their devices. Apparently even if you have paid for a device in full! Total BS!

Anyway, on Friday the 17th I ported 4 of my family members over to T-Mobile and the following Monday I was informed my account was being canceled and I had until the 31st to port the numbers to another carrier. They told me that part of the agreement that we signed stated that any phones traded in were no retrievable and no compensation would be given for them. So we lost Sprint phones too.

I'm currently working with the Minnesota Attorney General's office right now in an effort to fight the bogus rules of T-Mobile.

I would call someone. It is most likely illegal to sell the device while you are still paying it off, but once it is paid for, it is your phone.

For example, I paid for a 5s upfront and when the 6 comes I out I can and will sell the 5s to pay for a 6.

 

[SmurfBoxMasta]

A least now everyone knows why this whole "uncarrier" thing is just a smokescreen....

Tmo not only wants your money, they also want, and will legally obtain, your old phones, which they WILL refurb & resell or scrap for parts...........and there aint S Q U A T you can do about it **ONCE** you sign the agreements... which you obviously have to do to get service.

Is anyone here really NAIVE enough to think that their lawyers didn't work all of this out way, way BEFORE they started this campaign ? Seriously ?

These people are in business to make m O n E y....and they will do **a N y T h I n G & e V e R y T h I n G** they have to towards that goal !

 

[CEmajr]

I'm having another issue with T-Mobile where they are cancelling my account because according to them it is illegal to sell their devices. Apparently even if you have paid for a device in full! Total BS!

Anyway, on Friday the 17th I ported 4 of my family members over to T-Mobile and the following Monday I was informed my account was being canceled and I had until the 31st to port the numbers to another carrier. They told me that part of the agreement that we signed stated that any phones traded in were no retrievable and no compensation would be given for them. So we lost Sprint phones too.

I'm currently working with the Minnesota Attorney General's office right now in an effort to fight the bogus rules of T-Mobile.

That seems odd. How do they even know whether or not you've sold your phones? I know several people who have sold their phones prior to them being fully paid off and nothing happened. Who did you call that told you that was their reason for canceling your account? As long as you're making payments on the phones and have service with them, there shouldn't be any problem with you selling your phone. I had an HTC One S that I was financing through them and sold it after having it for only six months and everything went along as normal.

 

[MrXiro]

1. Actually other financial contracts don't come with a service requirement.

If it was no service contract you'd be able to keep making the device payments even after cancelling service.

2. Yes, you can eliminate the service by paying the phone off, but it's the same thing (and possibly more expensive depending on how far in you are ) as the contract only that you'd be paying the 200 bucks.

3. It's just a sneaky (and brilliant) way of doing the contract model unless you buy the phone in full at the start.


4. If it really wasn't a sneaky way to slip in a contract, you'd be able to keep making device payments (per the financing agreement) even if you canceled service. But you cancel service before the phone is paid off, you're hit with an inflated payment (you know, like an ETF) and you can no longer continue the monthly payments.


I don't see why you people can't see that this is what they're doing.

It's better for the consumer and saves them money over a 2 year time frame but the fact remains you are still paying a contract. Yes they separated the service from device, but not completely because the service must continue until the device is paid off.

I can't simplify it any more, it's still a contract, just with better terms, but fact is its a contract if you choose the monthly plan option.

If you still can't comprehend that, then I don't know what to tell you

You're not correct but you're not incorrect either... in my case... I'm under a family plan and I'm paying now about the same as before... $50 a month after employee discounts (was getting 20% at At&t now getting 15% at Tmobile)... BUT I didn't pay the $200 off the bat. Zero down on a 5S. So I'm STILL paying $50 a month for more data (500mb/unlimited throttled vs 300mb) but I've didn't have to pay $200 to begin with. If I were to just up and pay off the phone it doesn't become any more expensive as it will be the same amount of money spent either way... whether it's dividing it up over 2 years interest free or doing it at once. Your only "binding" contract is your payment plan to your phone. You can still cancel your plan, unlock your phone pay the remainder of the phone price and walk at any time. It's not quite the same as an ETF and Tmobile does hold sales on a few of their phones so you might save another $100 extra on top of the savings.

Either way it's how you choose to perceive the bill... but the main point is that the service is "cheaper" in the long run.

 

[keitarou]

I'm having another issue with T-Mobile where they are cancelling my account because according to them it is illegal to sell their devices. Apparently even if you have paid for a device in full! Total BS!

Anyway, on Friday the 17th I ported 4 of my family members over to T-Mobile and the following Monday I was informed my account was being canceled and I had until the 31st to port the numbers to another carrier. They told me that part of the agreement that we signed stated that any phones traded in were no retrievable and no compensation would be given for them. So we lost Sprint phones too.

I'm currently working with the Minnesota Attorney General's office right now in an effort to fight the bogus rules of T-Mobile.

Do you mind posting more detail to this? If this is true, T-Mobile will go down. It's not illegal to sell "MY" phone. There is not such thing as "Their device" when I paid full price for it.

 

[albertfallickwa]

I really like T-Mobile. Sorry to hear that your experience wasn't good with them. Their coverage is improving everyday.

 

[thehustleman]

You're not correct but you're not incorrect either... in my case... I'm under a family plan and I'm paying now about the same as before... $50 a month after employee discounts (was getting 20% at At&t now getting 15% at Tmobile)... BUT I didn't pay the $200 off the bat. Zero down on a 5S. So I'm STILL paying $50 a month for more data (500mb/unlimited throttled vs 300mb) but I've didn't have to pay $200 to begin with. If I were to just up and pay off the phone it doesn't become any more expensive as it will be the same amount of money spent either way... whether it's dividing it up over 2 years interest free or doing it at once. Your only "binding" contract is your payment plan to your phone. You can still cancel your plan, unlock your phone pay the remainder of the phone price and walk at any time. It's not quite the same as an ETF and Tmobile does hold sales on a few of their phones so you might save another $100 extra on top of the savings.

Either way it's how you choose to perceive the bill... but the main point is that the service is "cheaper" in the long run.

You just restated what I said.

You walk before it's paid off, you pay a balloon payment you wouldn't have to pay if you would have just kept paying the monthly.

Whether it's the ETF or the reminder of the phone, same concept different names.

And yeah I already said it's cheaper in the long run