Tablets: Battle of the OS - FIGHT! (Now with poll!)

[AppleScruff1]

Any idea when the HP is supposed to go on sale? If it is soon, great. If it is several months away, there will likely be even more competition. iPad 2 will be coming along with a slew of Android devices. What looks good today may not be so cutting edge in the near future.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Any idea when the HP is supposed to go on sale? If it is soon, great. If it is several months away, there will likely be even more competition. iPad 2 will be coming along with a slew of Android devices. What looks good today may not be so cutting edge in the near future.

I assume you mean the HP touchpad, and they said "summer". And I agree that is late, and that by summer the specs on the touchpad will seem average at best. But I'm not talking about hardware specs. The OS's on the playbook and honeycomb shouldn't really change between now and then. Apple DOES have one major revision that should be coming out at that time. And you are right, I've said I hope that Apple really blows them out of the water with iOS 5.0, but at this point webOS has a clear design lead IMO. Things like polish, speed, bells and whistles can always be added at a later time, but the core function and way that an OS works typically doesn't change over night. And WebOS really knows what it's doing...

 

[aduteau]

Any idea when the HP is supposed to go on sale? If it is soon, great. If it is several months away, there will likely be even more competition. iPad 2 will be coming along with a slew of Android devices. What looks good today may not be so cutting edge in the near future.

Sometime this summer they say, probably after the iPad 2.
Some people say it is doomed because of this late release ... But HP has the muscle and the marketing to finally achieve what Palm couldn't do with WebOS ... and that's get software devs on board this time around ... Dont be quick to dismiss HP and WebOS in this generation of Tablets.

And for people who claim that iOS is much more easier to use and is the main selling point ... I'm sorry ... this may be a valid point with Android, but it clearly isn't a selling point against WebOS.

 

[aduteau]

I assume you mean the HP touchpad, and they said "summer". And I agree that is late, and that by summer the specs on the touchpad will seem average at best. But I'm not talking about hardware specs. The OS's on the playbook and honeycomb shouldn't really change between now and then. Apple DOES have one major revision that should be coming out at that time. And you are right, I've said I hope that Apple really blows them out of the water with iOS 5.0, but at this point webOS has a clear design lead IMO. Things like polish, speed, bells and whistles can always be added at a later time, but the core function and way that an OS works typically doesn't change over night. And WebOS really knows what it's doing...

I hear you ... I'm afraid that iOS just doesn't have at its core the same functions that WebOS has
I'm not saying that iOS is junk .... ( I am rooting for it all the way and will stay with it )
But WebOS just feels like it has this solid foundation to build on top, where as iOS feels like its a patch after a patch to catch on what the other OS do...
And now WebOS has the muscles with HP to make it even better !!! HP is the real treat to Apple ... not Android .. like many have said .. Android is for the geeky people ... not the same market as Apple ...

WebOS on the other hand targets to same people that Apples targets ... the everyday people who just wants it to be simple and that it works out of the box.

 

[AppleScruff1]

I assume you mean the HP touchpad, and they said "summer". And I agree that is late, and that by summer the specs on the touchpad will seem average at best. But I'm not talking about hardware specs. The OS's on the playbook and honeycomb shouldn't really change between now and then. Apple DOES have one major revision that should be coming out at that time. And you are right, I've said I hope that Apple really blows them out of the water with iOS 5.0, but at this point webOS has a clear design lead IMO. Things like polish, speed, bells and whistles can always be added at a later time, but the core function and way that an OS works typically doesn't change over night. And WebOS really knows what it's doing...

I am impressed by what I have seen of WebOS. I agree that it more advanced than the present version of iOS. It seems to me that WebOS has taken it to the next level and we are seeing the beginning of tablets becoming more laptop like. Remember that Jobs believes the future is mobile computing and it looks like the Touchpad is a step in it's evolution. I'm sure we'll soon see what Apple has up it's sleeve. It's great to have competition. It's a win win situation for the computer.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

I also really like the way that Apple and HP (and I guess RIM) is doing things by creating the hardware and software both. It creates a superior environment I think. I think android is just waiting to get big enough to trip over its own feet. Let htc, LG, motorola, dell, and other rip the thing up into pieces. It only creates slow (or no) updates, weird and patchy OS's, and fragmentation.

But I think HP will need to get its act together with updates. Apparently the pre won't get webOS 2, and the pre 2 may not get webOS 3... I think that from webOS 3 on HP will have fixed the issues though. I think the problem was probably a transition is direction caused by the palm to HP shift. Also HP is going to have to advertise the crap out of this thing, because right now the only people that know about it are the fanboys that already have an allegience with apple, or google, or RIM, or microsoft... it is hard to get those people.

and, I know this is more a phone OS point than a tablet OS (although I see it leaking to tablet soon), speaking of microsoft I think they created something really good in WP7 and now that they are teamed up with nokia I think they hit a real winner. I predict the other manufacturers will back off WP7 moving towards android and it will mainly be a microsoft/nokia marriage giving the illusion of that uniformity that apple and HP have. Even if that doesn't happen microsoft already has fairly strict requirments on what the hardware should be like. I also think that nokia and microsoft will be working together to create a tablet experience that will rival apple and hp to be released in about a year. Microsoft is coming late to the phone/tablet party, but when you team 2 powerhouses like microsoft and nokia, they will definitely be a force to be reckoned with...

 

[samab]

Foundation is the kernel and the scheduler. It is what makes the RIM Playbook able to multitask realtime video playing in the background --- WITHOUT STUTTERING. And that is very hard to do. Xoom can't do it even though it has a GHz dual core CPU with the same amount of RAM. HP TouchPad can't do it --- even though it has a faster 1.2 GHz dual core CPU with the same amaount of RAM.

 

[AppleScruff1]

I agree about creating both the hardware and software. It has the makings of a good system. If they can get the updating done properly it will be a big help for people switching to and sticking with the platform. I think that may be Androids Achilles heel. There needs to be a quick, easy system for updates like Apple has.

I hope that HP is successful along with Microsoft and Nokia. It will help to keep Apple on it's toes to give the consumer better choices. Competition drives companies. It's better for us.

 

[Sydde]

I think it is fairly obvious that the iPad will eventually split off into something like iOS Home vs iOS Pro. There is a very large market for people who are fine with the way iOS is right now, more or less — not most of the people who post on MRF, but most iPad users have probably never heard of MR.

I do want a more fluid experience — even windowing of some type would be nice — but if dressing up the basic iPad dampens its broad appeal, that would be a mistake.

The pro version needs to be a hurdle for the user. We really do not want Biff going over to Grandma's house and turning her iPad into a powerful monster that is difficult for her to use, but that should not prevent Biff from being able to get the most out of his own unit.

What worries me is that Apple will do like with the notebooks and make the Pro version a hardware choice (I would have to spend more money to get what I want up front) instead of a simple d/l, but if that works, I say hey, why not? Sooner or later, a new one will be called for anyway.

iOS may look all patchy to some, but that is the beauty of (i)OS X. It is highly modular, so upgrading the design can be done just by replacing a few parts. Then they adjust the parts to work better with each other. This allows growth and refinement rather than try-to-get-it-all-right-out-of-the-gate and makes fixing things a lot easier.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

I think it is fairly obvious that the iPad will eventually split off into something like iOS Home vs iOS Pro.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this is not only NOT obviously but NOT likely! Are you crazy? Oh you must be referring to how Mac OS X has a home and pro version... oh wait, it doesn't. Apple just creates simple products that can also be powerful if you know how to use them. This will be the same for iOS.

and as for a hardware pro version... I doubt it. They could possibly use the nomenclature "pro" I suppose, but only if they decide to create a larger display.

 

[aduteau]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this is not only NOT obviously but NOT likely! Are you crazy? Oh you must be referring to how Mac OS X has a home and pro version... oh wait, it doesn't. Apple just creates simple products that can also be powerful if you know how to use them. This will be the same for iOS.

and as for a hardware pro version... I doubt it. They could possibly use the nomenclature "pro" I suppose, but only if they decide to create a larger display.

100% agree, IF they ever do something Pro it will be on the hardware side, not the software.

iMac --------- Mac Pro
Mac Book -------- Mac Book Pro

Tho we dont have an iPhone and iPhone Pro ... or an iPod touch and an iPod touch Pro .... So will they introduce a Pro version of hardware in the mobile units ??? My gut feeling is saying no.

 

[henry2]

I'm a second generation android user.
I started out with a Nexus One, and found that to be an excellent phone. I went to the Droidx and was underwhelmed. My company being security minded as opted to enforce encrypted group policies where it comes to accessing the exchange servers. This is something that blackberry and the iPhone supports. Since it seems android does not, my company is in the process of blocking access to the corporate email servers. So for me, is a forgone conclusion that I'll not be getting an android based phone but rather an iphone.

You hit the nail on the head about the socalled security problems of the socalled Android O.S.system that it opened to anyone to make application to sale or to use on the system and to me that is the biggest threat out there ..At Apple you have to go through a some type of check to have your application put into the box and at least you know something about the socalled background of the company who put out the application for the Apple market

As a fromer Window guy i will never go back to any windows based O.S.because of all the problems with the window base os platfrom ..Apple did and does a outstanding job on the simple to learn and use o.s. platfrom on there devices and that what makes most of the socalled techo needs types p---off about the fact that they keep it simple and easly with the features that they public likes on there products ..

I watched the socalled highly involved type needs get so worked up over the simple and basic fact of why apple works with the public because this statement i tell them ..

Apple has figure this out for the public the simple it is to use the more the public will use it in there lifes..Now look at the sales of the Iphone and ipad to say that apple is doing something right and that just sets off the socalled greeks who say they have to jailbreak anything that apple has because of them needing alot more features on there device and that apple will only allow the features that you are willing to pay for as you update each time when buying a new apple product that apple brings out ..

This statement puts them into a shark like feeding fenzy like they smell blood in the water along with you all ways will have two class of computer user in the world of computer ..The socalled apple fanboys and the other o.s. system fan boys ..

Also give the fact i tell people do i need a camera or beening able to multi task on the ipad i tell them no and i really use my ipad as a basic device in one life to enjoy some music or write and send a email or read a email or do some basic lite websurfing or looking up something in the books or dvd library program i have in the application i do not need a camera or multi tasking or some other brand new feature for the use for me it perfect the way it is right now ..

 

[Sydde]

Apple has figure this out for the public the simple it is to use the more the public will use it in there lifes..Now look at the sales of the Iphone and ipad to say that apple is doing something right and that just sets off the socalled greeks who say they have to jailbreak anything that apple has because of them needing alot more features on there device and that apple will only allow the features that you are willing to pay for as you update each time when buying a new apple product that apple brings out

Apple's biggest problem is their fanatical pursuit of profitability maximization. Every iOS update establishes a new mechanism that gives the JB community more headaches when they try to unlock the platform, and you have to think that Apple spends tens of thousands of dollars labor to figure out what the JBers are doing and how to put up more roadblocks to their efforts. Kind of a waste, really, not only in money but also on the broader good will front.

Ironic, when you consider that iOS has the open source Mach kernel and Darwin Unix underneath — something Apple touted ("look how friendly to GNU we are!") while advancing OS X (the base of iOS). If they would just allow the JB community to coexist, we and they would all be a little better off.

 

[Cha]

Tho we dont have an iPhone and iPhone Pro ... or an iPod touch and an iPod touch Pro .... So will they introduce a Pro version of hardware in the mobile units ??? My gut feeling is saying no.

What about the rumors of a possible smaller cheaper iPhone. That will create the "Pro" and "non Pro" line... Only time will tell.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

What about the rumors of a possible smaller cheaper iPhone. That will create the "Pro" and "non Pro" line... Only time will tell.

I think the iPads may diverge to 7" and possibly even 13" models, and if apple wants to term them "pro" "mini" or whatever that's up to them, but I don't think there will be substantial difference from their insides. may be slight differences because you can fit more into bigger things.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Does WebOS support pinch to zoom? I don't recall seeing it the HP video. I think that this market segment is going to be fun. This is the next big thing and the direction that mobile computing will be taking. I can't wait to see all the goodies that will be coming out in the future.

 

[samab]

Apple's biggest problem is their fanatical pursuit of profitability maximization. Every iOS update establishes a new mechanism that gives the JB community more headaches when they try to unlock the platform, and you have to think that Apple spends tens of thousands of dollars labor to figure out what the JBers are doing and how to put up more roadblocks to their efforts. Kind of a waste, really, not only in money but also on the broader good will front.

Ironic, when you consider that iOS has the open source Mach kernel and Darwin Unix underneath — something Apple touted ("look how friendly to GNU we are!") while advancing OS X (the base of iOS). If they would just allow the JB community to coexist, we and they would all be a little better off.

The same security vulnerabilities that allow you to jailbreak and unlock --- are the same security vulnerabilities that were shown to steal all your passwords on the iphone in less than 6 minutes.

Would you ever use the NFC digital wallet on a jailbroken iphone?

 

[Blakjack]

The Simplicity excuse needs to be thrown out the window now. WebOS is definitely simple enough.

The things that will keep Apple enthusiasts still enthused are:

1. The fact that Apple has the ability to do anything and everything the competition does and even DOESN'T know how to do. See, the things is, the competition is trying to keep up with Apple. Apple chooses not to implement certain things until they are ready. This method keeps us enthused and it keeps us as fanboys because we tend to think this might be the year. Its like a woman who knows a man will marry her, but when he actually proposes is the question. The only way we leave is if we are fed up with them not giving us the features we want while the competition is just slinging these wanted features out like there's no tomorrow.

2. As much as the competition and it's fans think their UI is very responsive and works fine, it still doesn't sit at the table with Apple. Yes, by now most OSs respond pretty well, but with iOS, it almost feels like it's an extension of our hands when we touch the keyboard and use gestures. It still reigns at the top.

3. I'm sure we have all noticed one huge detail, the competition is leaving out. THE BATTERY LIFE. All these devices do wonderful jobs with it's multitasking, battery life, and Flash. Really they do. But how much battery life is that going to cost the user. The competition has said nothing about this yet. Either they have secret weapons that they don't want anyone to know anything about or they are having a tough time getting anywhere close to the 10 hours Apple has going. After owning an iPad, anything under 8 hrs would piss me off.

4. Let's not forget about the price point. As we can see, it's looking like everyone will have trouble under cutting or even matching what Apple has set. Apple pretty much owns all the major pieces that make up it's devices, so a satisfying price for the consumer isn't hard to present. This is why I think only HP will come close to what Apple is doing and could eventually reign as Apples top competitor. This will be definite, if the xoom hits the market at the rumored 799(SMH).

 

[Piggie]

Apple already does make a range of iPods:

iPod Shuffle, iPod Nano, iPod Classic, iPod Touch.

A range of laptops:

MacBook, MacBook Air, MacBook Pro.

A range of Mac Desktops.

Why is everyone so adamant that there can ever only be one tablet from Apple?

 

[Androidpwns]

iOS has one teeny weeny advantage over the others: simplicity.

Yeah, you got that right... use only one app at a time

 

[kdarling]

You hit the nail on the head about the socalled security problems of the socalled Android O.S.system that it opened to anyone to make application to sale or to use on the system and to me that is the biggest threat out there ..At Apple you have to go through a some type of check to have your application put into the box and at least you know something about the socalled background of the company who put out the application for the Apple market

First, the person you were responding to was talking about Exchange group encryption policies, not apps.

Second, to be an Android market developer requires the same as the Apple market: a name, address, phone number, credit card and a fee to keep out the cheaper spam artists. That's it. Same for RIM, btw.

Apple spends a few minutes at most doing a check to make sure the submitted app doesn't violate copyrights or Apple app rules. They don't check for trojans or secret comms or anything like that... just witness the WiFi hotspot that snuck through as a flashlight app.

Android app installation requires telling the user about any protected resources the app is going to use. This at least gives the user a better chance of seeing something unusual... like internet access for a flashlight.

Does WebOS support pinch to zoom?

Yes.

 

[neko girl]

@kdarling, there was a paper published on how iOS applications have a lot of free reign over information belonging to other apps.
http://seriot.ch/blog.php?article=20100203

I haven't seen Apple address anything described in the report. It's troubling to think one app can grab database information from another app, then throw it out over a network connection.

Apple hasn't responded to the keychain being unencrypted and the subsequent jailbreak-driven hack that Fraunhofer published a few days ago.

Troublesome, indeed..

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

3. I'm sure we have all noticed one huge detail, the competition is leaving out. THE BATTERY LIFE. All these devices do wonderful jobs with it's multitasking, battery life, and Flash. Really they do. But how much battery life is that going to cost the user. The competition has said nothing about this yet. Either they have secret weapons that they don't want anyone to know anything about or they are having a tough time getting anywhere close to the 10 hours Apple has going. After owning an iPad, anything under 8 hrs would piss me off.
.

I may be alone on this, and maybe it's because I haven't owned a tablet yet, or been spoiled by an iPad battery life... but I don't really see why having 10 hours of battery life is such a necessity. Yes of course more is always better, but I think as long as it can last till either you get home, or the end of the day if you are traveling. I understand sure 10 hours could be needed in some circumstances, but I have a feeling that 95% of the time you would be able to last with only 6 hours, especially because your habits are different when you know you have 6 hours as opposed to 10 hours. I mean up till a couple years ago most laptops only could get you like 5 hours. and that 95% of the time I would rather be able to have real multitasking, widgets, flash, and XYZ feature, and then the other 5% of the time I could turn off some of the features like flash, and widgets and turn down the brightness and I should be able to pump out an extra couple hours to make it

Maybe I'm wrong

 

[vrDrew]

I may be alone on this, and maybe it's because I haven't owned a tablet yet, or been spoiled by an iPad battery life... but I don't really see why having 10 hours of battery life is such a necessity.

Its hard to appreciate until you've spent some time with it. Simply put, a huge part of the whole iPad experience is that it - quite literally - "frees" you from so many of the irritations that come along with laptop use.

How many times do you see someone's laptop, in their home, sitting on a desk or a table with a power cord, complete with ugly, dusty "brick", draped across the carpet? I'd hazard a guess and say that most laptops spend at least half their time plugged into an outlet.

Secondly, a 10 hour battery life is enough to get you through an entire day of travelling. I fly international at least three or four times a year, and my iPad's got the amp/hours to keep me entertained from the time I leave the house, through a couple of hours in the departure lounge, through an eight hour flight - and still has enough juice left for me to browse, surf, or watch a movie in my hotel room in my destination city. Try doing that with a laptop. The fact of the matter is most airport departure lounges are usually dotted with laptop owners clustered around the measly few available power outlets.

Even if you never leave your house with your iPad, it still plays a big part. I'll check e-mail a half dozen times a day, do some gaming, do the NY Times crossword - every day. But recharging is something I do, on average once or twice a week. Even better, when the battery meter gets down to the 20% mark - thats STILL enough power to get your through a two hour movie.

Lastly, when people say "10 hour" battery life on the iPad - they mean it. About the only thing you can do that will run the battery down faster than that is gaming with the sound turned all the way up. But with most laptops, after a couple of hours of web-surfing or video watching - you're already thinking about where and when you are going to plug in.

Trust me - the battery life is a huge part of the reason people like their iPads.

 

[ditzy]

From the moment the iPad was announced, I knew that it would sell really well. It just made sense to me. While I'm sure that the android and blackberry tablets will sell well, I don't get the, well that's just how it's supposed to be, thing which I got from the iPad.
However the HP tablet, that made sense to me. I'm aware that there are many reasons why it may fail, the biggest being lack of apps. But this is the first tablet other than the iPad which has even made me think about buying it.