Tablets: Battle of the OS - FIGHT! (Now with poll!)

[MrWillie]

By your example, companies should all be making computers that can only do one thing at a time, since, juggling two or three things would be prone to more mistakes. Its a bit difficult imagining not being able to talk on the phone, checking out reviews on yelp and downloading an app in the background since doing these things would "get less done, make more mistakes and miss more deadlines".

You get paid to talk on the phone, cruise yelp, and download apps ? Two questions

1) Who in the hell do you work for ?
2) Are they hiring ?

They are talking about people that do real work. Programming, generating reports, write ups, ect.

You realize that Android has only been out for approx 2 years after being released over a year after the iPhone, and they are already surpassing iPhone sales. webOS looks superior to iOS in many respects and now has backing from HP, a large enough company to throw money at it. I think the playbook can make some serious ground in the business field, and I'm sure microsoft is going to jump into the tablet arena soon (possibly with their new friend nokia)

I think it's a little arrogant to assume that in 2 years apple will still hold over a 65% marketshare "easy". This is going to be a fierce marketplace. I think in 2 years time Apple will still be number 1, but I think that everyone will be nearing them. Apple will be happy to be holding on to 50% of sales in spring of 2013.

So Apple #1 at 50% and the rest of the world at 50%. Out of the 20 or so 'competitors' they will have, which one will have the majority of the other 50% to be close to Apple ? Where will the Walgreens and Kmart tablets stand ?

 

[Androidpwns]

So Apple #1 at 50% and the rest of the world at 50%. Out of the 20 or so 'competitors' they will have, which one will have the majority of the other 50% to be close to Apple ? Where will the Walgreens and Kmart tablets stand ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdfc_HDJgXw

 

[jclardy]

I have been waiting for some kind of integration between iPad and iPhone since the iPad was announced.

I'm hoping this comes with iOS5, but after the improved notification system.

My main upgrades that I would like to see in iOS5:
1. Improved notifications that don't just dissapear, especially on the lock screen. It is so annoying when you see a notification on the lock screen after the fact and after the device is unlocked you have no idea what app sent you that notification, because it is now completely gone unless the app has the notification bubble on its icon.

2. A basic file system. This is more important for iPad, but it should be really easy to get files onto my iPad using finder but it is not because I have to find the app I want to use in iTunes then drag the files from finder into that app's iTunes directory.

They tried to simplify the idea, but in the end it is a mess that leaves the user with duplicate files all over the place.

3. Integration between iPad and iPhone. I have both of these and I still can't even tether my iPhone's 3G to my iPad even if I pay AT&T $20 a month! This is finally changing with Wifi tethering but it certainly took long enough.

Essentially right now my iPad has no idea that my iPhone even exists. It should be really easy to wirelessly grab photos from my iPhone to my iPad library, but right now I need the camera connection kit and an iPhone cable. Also simpler things like sending an address from my iPad to my iPhone, I shouldn't have to email it to myself. Sending a link as well, I shouldn't have to go through instapaper to move a link from my iPhone to iPad.

I'm guessing some of this will come when they put an NFC chip in both devices, but a lot of it can be done now if they just add a button to the interface, kind of like AirPlay.

As far as other tablets go I think HP's TouchPad looks the nicest, the Xoom is a nice looking tablet, but it doesn't have a lot to differentiate itself from the flood of Honeycomb tablets being shown off at MWC this week.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

So Apple #1 at 50% and the rest of the world at 50%. Out of the 20 or so 'competitors' they will have, which one will have the majority of the other 50% to be close to Apple ? Where will the Walgreens and Kmart tablets stand ?

well let me get out my crystal ball.. kmart tablets?

And I'm talking from a platform standpoint, OS. So if you are making me guess, if iOS is getting 50% my guess is android will be next 30%, webOS will come in around 15%, and then microsoft will be starting to get their feet out from under them with their new tablet OS with around 5%.

I dunno the more I think about it the less I think apple will be capable of holding on to even 50% is 2 years time. Unless iOS 5 really propells them

 

[bjet767]

Here's my take on this thread:

The best OS systems over the years do a number of things:
1. They offer compatibility. Yes there are a few people who will opt for the odd-ball programs but most of us want to be able to use data from our phones, IPads to our desktops/Laptops. This requires cross-OS compatibility.

2. It has to be fast, not jittery and be easy to use. The IPad/IPhone is superior to the current and looking at the webOS the future OSs on the market. The iOS just works!

3. It has to be priced right. The only reason the IPhone took off was it was subsidized by the Phone company and that made it affordable. Apple in general has lowered their prices over the years while they increased their quality, which has been a winning combo.

Improvements to the iOS:

1. I agree Flash is needed.
2. Dump Itunes as the only authorized access to the IPad and IPhone.
3. Better file system access.
4. Open Bluetooth to more options.

 

[Carouser]

Could someone explain this comparison between (1) market share of an OS which isn't manufacturer-specific (Android) and (2) market share of a device which is always and forever bundled with a particular OS (iPad)?

It's setting up one hardware/software bundle against multiple manufacturers with varying products sharing similar software. It's like asking the market share of the VW Golf vs. all blue hatchbacks. Or asking the market share of the iPad vs. all tablet computers with non-aluminum backs.

What is the comparison between? If Android gets greater market share than iOS on iPad it doesn't necessarily mean it's because people preferred Android.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the point of the comparison - it doesn't say very much.

 

[kdarling]

It's setting up one hardware/software bundle against multiple manufacturers with varying products sharing similar software.

"Varying products sharing similar software" is the key.

There have been multiple iPhone models made so far, plus various iPod touch and iPad types.

Those are varying products, designed over time, sometimes made at different factories, all sharing similar software (but not all the same app capabilities).

Android also comes in varying products made in different factories, sharing similar software. There's just more product models, more often.

 

[Carouser]

"Varying products sharing similar software" is the key.

There have been multiple iPhone models made so far, plus various iPod touch and iPad types.

Those are varying products, designed over time, sometimes made at different factories, all sharing similar software (but not all the same app capabilities).

Android also comes in varying products made in different factories, sharing similar software. There's just more product models, more often.

So my examples of "market share of the blue VW Golf vs. all blue hatchbacks or market share of the iPad vs. all tablet computers with non-aluminum backs" are legitimate ones? They share the same logic, after all.

I understand the comparison, but I don't understand why people make it - what difference does it make if Android OS share increased versus iPad market share? It tells me very little about the cause of consumer demand, when one OS is a 'free-rider' and one is strongly tied to hardware. It says nothing about whether people 'prefer' or 'choose' Android since they may have made their choice on other grounds irrespective of OS. The unit of selection is the whole good or service which people buy, and people do not buy stand-alone OSs in the tablet market.

 

[kdarling]

So my examples of "market share of the blue VW Golf vs. all blue hatchbacks or market share of the iPad vs. all tablet computers with non-aluminum backs" are legitimate ones? They share the same logic, after all.

The trouble we always find is that car analogies don't work well with phones. I mean, what do we equate with the OS? The engine perhaps? Okay.

So Apple sells a few models using one type of engine, and if you want that type, you have to go to Apple. Android is another type of engine, but it's available from many manufacturers in many models. More choice of doors, colors, options, prices.

We can also compare just certain model types, coupe (phone) vs crossover (tablet), etc.

I understand the comparison, but I don't understand why people make it - what difference does it make if Android OS share increased versus iPad market share? (snip)

You're right, raw number comparison doesn't explain why people bought X or Y. Was it due to social pressure? Advice? Research? Opportunity? Gift? Random?

If the reason is important to you, it has to be derived from personal surveys.

To investors, developers and various fanboys, raw numbers usually work okay

Cheers!

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

carouser, I understand you concern, and agree with you that it's not necessarily the best comparison, but it IS a valid comparison and not an awful one.

Just the same as the PC vs Mac comparison. I could just as easily argue that it's not fair to say that the PC has 9 times the marketshare, when the PC probably has 30 times more options, but that doesn't make the comparison invalid. Apple made the choice to only create so many options and not let anyone else use the Mac software. Now a hardware sales comparison is also valid. this is the one where Apple sales are compared to HP and Dell and Acer etc. Apple always does better on the hardware comparison than the overall Mac to PC comparison because it sells more of each model than most companies do with their individual models.

Same is true for phones or tablets. compare iOS to android to symbian to WP7 to webOS to RIM(I'm not sure the name for their OS...). But then you can also compare Apple to motorola to LG to Dell to HTC to SE, to RIM...

android has overtaken iOS on phones, and I agree that isn't necessarily because the OS is better. Their are many other factors like form factor and carrier... but now I think the tablet places the hardware on much more even ground. The hardware is going to be pretty similar on everything. slightly better camera, slightly faster etc, but about the same size, no physical keyboard... So the OS is really the thing that is going to shine with regards to the tablets. I think it'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Carouser]

Thank you for the explanation kdarling. I can see why it matters to investors, developers, and fanboys. What I don't get is the ways people have brought it up in this thread. For those who don't follow my reasoning, market share of an OS may have nothing to do with the qualities of the OS itself, and says nothing about why that OS has the market share it does. It has more to do with whether it 'rides on' specific hardware (bundling), whether it's in a one-to-one or one-to-many relationship to hardware, and so forth.

EDIT: In response to Mad Mac Maniac, thank you as well for your response.

No, the comparison is not 'invalid' but I do not find it very meaningful. The best comparison in my eyes is at the unit of the good or service. How many tablets have competing companies sold?

If you are a developer, yes, platform matters. If you are an investor, yes, platform matters. If you want to see how Apple stacks up against the tablet competition, then it is not as good a measure. The OS may have zero causal power in the market; it might free-ride other consumer considerations. You think it holds a lot of causal power when hardware is relatively similar, and that's fine, but remains nonetheless speculation (which is also fine!). Ultimately, if Apple loses or gains OS marketshare, we cannot say, without other evidence, that it is because of the OS. That is all.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Thank you for the explanation kdarling. I can see why it matters to investors, developers, and fanboys. What I don't get is the ways people have brought it up in this thread. For those who don't follow my reasoning, market share of an OS may have nothing to do with the qualities of the OS itself, and says nothing about why that OS has the market share it does. It has more to do with whether it 'rides on' specific hardware (bundling), whether it's in a one-to-one or one-to-many relationship to hardware, and so forth.

I agree. WebOS is the perfect example of this (for the smartphone market). Definitely of caliber of iOS/android/WP7. And unless iOS or android has a major release by this summer, webOS will be the superior OS for tablets, but I have a feeling it is going to lag behind everyone else for a while. But probably still do better than webOS has thus far.

 

[MrWillie]

Comparison of tablet to tablet. (Tablets ONLY, iPod Touches should be compared to PDAs.)

Reasoning is if you buy a Galaxy Tab, you are not buying a Xoom, and even though they are both Andriod devices, Motorola doesn't make any money.

I see this turning out like the cell phone/smartphone market. Only one hardware manufacture making any money (Apple) and Google making money from scanning data on the Android side.

Apple has 4% of the total cell phone market and 50% of profits. Who is the winner and losers ?

Mad Mac
I agree. WebOS is the perfect example of this (for the smartphone market). Definitely of caliber of iOS/android/WP7. And unless iOS or android has a major release by this summer, webOS will be the superior OS for tablets, but I have a feeling it is going to lag behind everyone else for a while. But probably still do better than webOS has thus far.

Major problem with WebOS is HP. At least with the iPad (or ANY Apple product) when you call tech support, you get the USA. (I am in the US) Apple store is a hop skip and a jump away. HP you get India. They try to SELL you a second $35 inkjet cartridge because your scanner is not working. Do I want this crap with my tablet or cell phone ? (Disclamer: I am a non-smart phone user. No cellphone camera either. )

WebOS might be great, but I think the Samsung lady will be able to discuss their sales, small. They are too late to the show.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

WebOS might be great, but I think the Samsung lady will be able to discuss their sales, small. They are too late to the show.

This is where I disagree. The iPad hasn't even been out for a year yet. By the time the touchpad is released they will be 14-15 months behind the iPad... Now zoom out of this micro-mindset that we are in right now and look at the whole picture. Personal computers have been around for decades. Do you really think a 15 month headstart would have made a difference?Look at smartphones, they have been around for a decade. Apple joined in 7 years later in 2007, do you think they stood a chance or were they too late? Android tablets are being released starting now, 10 months after the iPad was released. Are they too late? Now look back at the 15 month late release of the touchpad. They have to to make up ground sure. But this tablet race is something that will continue for many years.

I think Microsoft is now catching on to this and realizing that Windows 7 doesn't work well on tablets. I expect them to release something in 2012. I'm sure they would be love to be as early to the game as HP is with webOS.

 

[kdarling]

I agree. WebOS is the perfect example of this (for the smartphone market).

+1 WebOS is the Betamax of smartphone OSes. Superior in many ways, but alas, will likely never get big.

This should be an interesting year. So many desirable devices coming.

I'm trying to decide which tablet to swap with the iPad I gave my 85 year old mother. I thought the iPad would be great, but it still uses too many tiny icons with no labels, and it can't access Flash sites. She's gotten frustrated at times, and I don't blame her.

Comparison of tablet to tablet. (Tablets ONLY, iPod Touches should be compared to PDAs.)

It's gonna get more complicated now. Samsung also showed off their 5" WiFi only Galaxy Tab thingie, which while it's more PMP sized, it still runs full Android.

Apple has 4% of the total cell phone market and 50% of profits. Who is the winner and losers ?

I think that I, the consumer, am the winner. Lots of choice. Lots of competition going on for my interest and money. Love it.

 

[MrWillie]

This is where I disagree. The iPad hasn't even been out for a year yet. By the time the touchpad is released they will be 14-15 months behind the iPad... Now zoom out of this micro-mindset that we are in right now and look at the whole picture. Personal computers have been around for decades. Do you really think a 15 month headstart would have made a difference?Look at smartphones, they have been around for a decade. Apple joined in 7 years later in 2007, do you think they stood a chance or were they too late? Android tablets are being released starting now, 10 months after the iPad was released. Are they too late? Now look back at the 15 month late release of the touchpad. They have to to make up ground sure. But this tablet race is something that will continue for many years.

I think Microsoft is now catching on to this and realizing that Windows 7 doesn't work well on tablets. I expect them to release something in 2012. I'm sure they would be love to be as early to the game as HP is with webOS.

But I am looking at the big picture. I am looking at the App Store, (Ten BILLION downoads), the iPhone, the Touchs, and how the iPad rolling down the track like a runaway freight train. The record sales that Mac computers have been having. a million ATV's sold in three months. The success of the iPhone on Verizon. The "smooth" sales numbers of the Galaxy. (T-Mobile had a buy one get one free). My friends and coworkers that had Droid phones ? They ALL got rid of them.

Some people (key word some) that buy a tablet, buy the iPad without even looking into the competition, they are buying into the Apple lifestyle.

Try selling my mother a computing product that can't be supported at the Apple store. Good luck. (Apple Geniuses have treated her like she is the "Queen of the World".)

I am on my first "real" Mac PC. I started with iPod Nanos. (I don't count the old Blue and White). While I will continue to use Windows to run PLC programming tools, it will be done on a Mac. I am now invested in the iPad. I don't care how many useless features an Android or WebOS tablet has, I am not buying.

We will see what tomorrow has in-store for the tablet market. Maybe if HP improves tech support ?

Quick question for all, Why hasn't Microsoft released a tablet based on WinMo7 yet ?

 

[Piggie]

The funny thing is that many people seem unable to grasp just how dangerous Apple is to the computing world.
Whilst they occupy their own little corner of nice products that some people buy, then that's fine, everyone is happy and no harm is done.
What we never need is Apple to get too powerful and controlling in the main stream. The way they have been acting recently makes Microsoft look like a sweet ***** cat in comparison.

Apple is fine, and makes nice quality products for a certain sector of the market, but no-one, even the most die hard fan, if they actually stepped back and really thought about it long and hard, would ever want Apple to get too big and too powerful.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

But I am looking at the big picture. I am looking at the App Store, (Ten BILLION downoads), the iPhone, the Touchs, and how the iPad rolling down the track like a runaway freight train. The record sales that Mac computers have been having. a million ATV's sold in three months. The success of the iPhone on Verizon. The "smooth" sales numbers of the Galaxy. (T-Mobile had a buy one get one free). My friends and coworkers that had Droid phones ? They ALL got rid of them.

I really don't think you can lump in iphone/ipod app sales in with the iPad when touting the app cataloge of the iPad. Running an app built for an iPhone on an iPad doesn't work well. And why run up the list of all apples products? You don't think HP knows a thing or two about selling products? They had $126 Billion in revenue last year.

And it's not a debate about android devices being able to catch up to iPhones... they are selling more right now. Those are the facts. They have caught up after being 15 months (sound familiar) beyind the iPhone. I love my iPhone, I would never buy an android device, but I don't represent the entire world's population.

Some people (key word some) that buy a tablet, buy the iPad without even looking into the competition, they are buying into the Apple lifestyle.

And some people walk into a store and say "I'd like to buy one of those there tablety things" and whatever device the store rep recommends they will buy.

Quick question for all, Why hasn't Microsoft released a tablet based on WinMo7 yet ?

Microsoft doesn't want to release a tablet based on WP7. I guess they think it wouldn't translate will to a tablet (and I agree, at least not without a major overhaul). And they claim that Windows 7 provides a great tablet experience (right...).

 

[shanshor]

Let me say this: I have owned two iPod touches, the iPad, and 2 Palm webOS phones.

The ONLY reason I am still considering keeping my iPad over the Touchpad is the wealth of apps I have purchased.

HPalm's webOS blows away any other mobile OS. I put up with the inferior hardware just to use the OS. If the Touchpad's video calling turns out to be as slick as what apple introduces, I'm sold. I'm selling my iPad this week in preparation of these two tablets.

The Touchpad seems like what a tablet was meant to be: Not only a portable, simple computer, but a companion to your phone. Touch-to-share is absolutely genius and the ease of use of the operating system is the gold standard, IMO.

If HPalm can pull off a good launch, prepare for it to be a major contender in a way that the Pre never was. I don't, however, see it surpassing iPad's marketshare ever.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

I'm selling my iPad this week in preparation of these two tablets.

Oh really? because (as i'm sure you know) touchpad won't be released till summer. so are you going to hold off on your purchase till both are released and be tabletless for 4-5 months?

 

[AppleScruff1]

This is where I disagree. The iPad hasn't even been out for a year yet. By the time the touchpad is released they will be 14-15 months behind the iPad... Now zoom out of this micro-mindset that we are in right now and look at the whole picture. Personal computers have been around for decades. Do you really think a 15 month headstart would have made a difference?Look at smartphones, they have been around for a decade. Apple joined in 7 years later in 2007, do you think they stood a chance or were they too late? Android tablets are being released starting now, 10 months after the iPad was released. Are they too late? Now look back at the 15 month late release of the touchpad. They have to to make up ground sure. But this tablet race is something that will continue for many years.

I think Microsoft is now catching on to this and realizing that Windows 7 doesn't work well on tablets. I expect them to release something in 2012. I'm sure they would be love to be as early to the game as HP is with webOS.

I think you make some good points. People seem to forget that Apple was a late comer to the smartphone world, in fact the phone world period. They have only been making phones for 4 years and look what they have done. They made up a tremendous amount of ground to get where they are today.

 

[BergerFan]

To me, WebOS is the only one that I can rank up there with iOS in both usage and aesthetics.
It's better than iOS at multitasking, notifications and having the number row on the keyboard.
The appeal of iOS to me, is that there're no obvious graphical bells and whistles, whilst still looking visually pleasant, with zero lag, when navigating. Any pretty transitions, are purely there to serve a purpose.
Honeycomb looks like a geeks wet dream, but has no visual appeal to me.
I know you can choose not to have them, but widgets just look vile on that, and the whole OS itself, looks flat out dull.
I'm not even considering the PlayBook as a serious rival. It looks okay, but will get swamped in both market and mindshare by the iPad 2 and the plethora of Android tablets that are coming.

 

[BergerFan]

This is where I disagree. The iPad hasn't even been out for a year yet. By the time the touchpad is released they will be 14-15 months behind the iPad... Now zoom out of this micro-mindset that we are in right now and look at the whole picture. Personal computers have been around for decades. Do you really think a 15 month headstart would have made a difference?Look at smartphones, they have been around for a decade. Apple joined in 7 years later in 2007, do you think they stood a chance or were they too late? Android tablets are being released starting now, 10 months after the iPad was released. Are they too late? Now look back at the 15 month late release of the touchpad. They have to to make up ground sure. But this tablet race is something that will continue for many years.

I think Microsoft is now catching on to this and realizing that Windows 7 doesn't work well on tablets. I expect them to release something in 2012. I'm sure they would be love to be as early to the game as HP is with webOS.

By giving Apple such a head start, "iPad", like "iPod" and "iPhone" has already entered the general consumer's vernacular, where any rivals don't even exist. That's where the big money is, not from the tech geeks like us, but from the average Joes.
Steve Jobs seems to be the only CEO, who truly understands the power of consumer mindshare, and how it relates directly to sales.
That has to be backed up, by nailing the primary areas of hardware that appeals directly to those general consumers: Screen quality, touch responsiveness and ease of use. The other, less important features that us geeks want, can all be added over time. It's the exact same formula which was successfully applied to the iPhone.
With regard to Microsoft, I guess you didn't see Ballmer show off the new Windows 7 tablets at CES then.
Ballmer thinks that the reason Windows has failed to gain consumer traction on tablets thus far, is purely down to the hardware not being capable of running Windows effectively, hence the recent ARM announcement. He thinks the OS is absolved of any blame, so I don't see a dedicated Microsoft tablet OS on the horizon any time soon.

 

[ditzy]

By giving Apple such a head start, "iPad", like "iPod" and "iPhone" has already entered the general consumer's vernacular, where any rivals don't even exist. That's where the big money is, not from the tech geeks like us, but from the average Joes.
Steve Jobs seems to be the only CEO, who truly understands the power of consumer mindshare, and how it relates directly to sales.
That has to be backed up, by nailing the primary areas of hardware that appeals directly to those general consumers: Screen quality, touch responsiveness and ease of use. The other, less important features that us geeks want, can all be added over time. It's the exact same formula which was successfully applied to the iPhone.
With regard to Microsoft, I guess you didn't see Ballmer show off the new Windows 7 tablets at CES then.
Ballmer thinks that the reason Windows has failed to gain consumer traction on tablets thus far, is purely down to the hardware not being capable of running Windows effectively, hence the recent ARM announcement. He thinks the OS is absolved of any blame, so I don't see a dedicated Microsoft tablet OS on the horizon any time soon.

I think that your mind share argument is a really good one. The iPad is seen as the 'real thing', the rest as pretenders. Which is why I think that the other tablets have to come in at a price that is less than the iPad. But I find the webOS tablet genuinely tempting.

 

[maflynn]

I think that your mind share argument is a really good one. The iPad is seen as the 'real thing', the rest as pretenders. Which is why I think that the other tablets have to come in at a price that is less than the iPad. But I find the webOS tablet genuinely tempting.

I disagree that the others are "pretenders" As 2011 wears own, you'll see the tablet market grow rather crowded. Some tablets will surpass the iPad in terms of specs, others will have a different form factor. I don't believe any of them will be pretenders. Other companies understand that its consumers that buy products.

While hobbyists and "geeks" can be evangelists for a given platform/product, the consumer is what drives sales. I don't know what's coming down from the pike with windows based tablets (and their track record is horrid), but it seems android based tablets are focusing on the correct market, with honeycomb based tablets.