Negligence is just as bad as malevolence when the result is the same
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
MP 7,1 Tahoe on 7,1 is intentionally set up as "Planned Obsolescence"
- Thread starter SDAVE
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Should Apple just support Intel Macs indefinitely then? What is the appropriate approach in your mind?
Microsoft supports their operating system for 10 years.
Apple is supposed to support their hardware for 8 years
I have a MBP 16” M1 Pro Max and Tahoe runs good.
Perhaps you don’t have enough RAM or have a process taking up resources.
Supporting hardware does not mean keeping it running like new
Weird. Do you use your MBP mostly plugged in or battery? This behavior exhibits mostly on battery; both on "Automatic" and "Low Power" settings.
But why is EtreCheck reporting below average results? Isn't that the important part? You can certainly take that one value and use it to compare against Sequoia. But it's the rest of the report that is more likely to show why it's running more slowly. If you don't want to post the whole report in the forums, you can always e-mail me.
And the OP is also welcome to do the same. There are certainly lots of problematic issues with Tahoe. If you want to complain about Tahoe, there's plenty there. Go to town! But don't punish yourself. In most cases, problems that people attribute to <insert new OS version du jour> are usually caused by 3rd party system modifications that aren't compatible.
I apologize for the product pushing, but usually when I see someone who isn't getting value from EtreCheck, it's like 2 months too late. So if I do a search and see "yesterday", I'm jumping on it.
It's really not worth getting upset at these things. My recommendation is to take a more practical, material approach. Do you really need that "Liquid Glass" and new features that you seemingly got along just fine without for the past few years? Don't let yourself fall for marketing. And also don't let yourself fall for "security" fear-mongering.
Currently, Apple requires Sequoia to submit apps to the Mac App Store, so that's what I have to use. If I had a choice, I'd still be using Ventura. Monterey was actually higher in quality, but for developer reasons, Ventura is the standard. I do have Tahoe on my test machine. But this machine is strictly for compatibility testing. It will get upgraded to macOS 27 in six months. I don't ever plan on using Tahoe in production. This is what I recommend to anyone who uses Macs for a living. You find a good version and camp out on it until someone forces you to upgrade. Let the rest of the internet bicker while you make money.
Yes I will definitely send you reports, I just can't do it right now. Please PM me your email address or can this be done through the EtreCheck app?
Here's what I came here to post before seeing your post.
Woke up to a recovery boot loop this morning and had to reset NVRAM/PRAM to boot normally. I'm trying to make Tahoe work better on this machine but I have been unsuccessful so far. Going back to Sequoia will be a big headache with all the software and licenses I have now. Since downgrading requires a system wipe/reinstall, I'm not willing to do that just yet.
I went through my EtreCheck logs dating back to 2019. I found that both of my MacPros, the 4,1 and 7,1 reported, "Excellent" system performance consistently. I've been diligent when it comes to keeping my machines in top working order, that is, until Tahoe. I went from consistent "Excellent" reports to "Below Average" from the moment I installed Tahoe on the 7,1.
I came across an article on Reddit and also here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/very-bad-performance-with-tahoe.2467339/ about Electron framework used by some developers. You can get Electron Detector here: https://furbo.org/2025/10/06/tahoe-electron-detector/
It found Adguard for safari and Logioptionplus which is my Logitech MX Master mouse software. I have been having some mouse issues since Tahoe but didn't attribute it to Tahoe until now.
Mouse issues:
1. Sometimes copy/paste duplicates copied text so the paste is duplicated twice.
2. The pointer has to be exactly placed or it does nothing when clicked. I tried changing sensitivity but it does not solve the issue.
3. Copying text does not always work when dragging over text and it does not highlight. It takes several attempts dragging in opposite directions and getting the cursor in exactly the right position to finally get it to highlight.
I'll post back if I find any fixes.
EDIT: Solved the mouse issues. Tahoe 26.2 update must have enabled "Full Keyboard Access" without my permission, I did not enable it. If enabled, it causes all kinds of mouse issues.
Attachments
Last edited:
If only I could figure out whatever it is on Ventura that periodically nukes ~75% of my Finder sidebar favourites, including some of the defaults like Pictures, Movies & Music.
Wherever they're located, it's not in the com.apple.finder.plist in ~/Library/Preferences
apple announced the transition from Intel to apple silicon on November 11, 2020.
this high spec machine in question was launched 2019.
if i was the one who had bought this machine for USD 25,000 and was in possession of it before the announcement, during these 6 or 7 years that i knew this day would be coming, i would be upset. but not righteously upset. i had 6 years to plan to buy a modern machine.
if i had bought this any time after the nov 11 2020 announcement, i would not be upset. it would have been foolish to purchase the machine in the first place if my upgrade cycle was anything longer than 3 years.
if i was the original poster, at this point, i would lease a machine until the next Mac Studio is released, and then buy the new Mac Studio.
this high spec machine in question was launched 2019.
if i was the one who had bought this machine for USD 25,000 and was in possession of it before the announcement, during these 6 or 7 years that i knew this day would be coming, i would be upset. but not righteously upset. i had 6 years to plan to buy a modern machine.
if i had bought this any time after the nov 11 2020 announcement, i would not be upset. it would have been foolish to purchase the machine in the first place if my upgrade cycle was anything longer than 3 years.
if i was the original poster, at this point, i would lease a machine until the next Mac Studio is released, and then buy the new Mac Studio.
Agreed, "Tahoe running terribly on my M1 Max 16” MBP and that’s with 64GB RAM 😱 Not cool." It is not planned obsolescence for his particular Mac as the OP claims; IMO it probably is poor OS competence (i.e. 26.2 still beta) by Apple.
I'm not worried about buying a Mac Studio M5 Ultra Max BlingBling Maximum top spec, can easily afford it, the point of it is that they literally nuked perfectly good hardware by a single OS update.
Also it took until late 2021 for M1 to get the Max/Ultra version for actual work, and even then, perf was close to the 7,1 mid-top spec. The M1/announcement that came out in 2020 was a toy for real work.
People are having a hard time understanding the point of the thread because you 1. Claimed that this was planned obsolescence and Apple has it out for you and 2. If your Mac ran so great on an older release, then literally just roll back to that release.
hi
thanks ! appreciate your comment.
apple to us all: hey, y'all, we are quitting the intel platform.
me: hmmm, if im going to spend USD 25,000 in 2019 dollars, i think im going to wait a bit
apple to us all: hey, y'all, we are quitting the intel platform.
some other people: hmmm, i think im going to buy an intel.
No, I specifically went with the maximum RAM, also greater storage (spent a lot of money on that).
The laptop only gets used for the basics, because it’s not a workstation. It’s just more sluggish than it was under Sequoia.
I also wonder if it’s time for these older M devices (like M1) to be made obsolete, given they are older than the 7,1.
Last edited:
I bought this 3 years ago and it paid for itself and then some. And no I didn't pay $25k for it, the original owner did (bought in mint condition mind you).
So you're cool with Apple nuking good hardware with a single OS update (which literally has NOTHING in terms of major performance heavy reducing features, except liquid glass, which is turned off and is a joke btw)...
Sure! just like the iOS 26 release, if you're not happy with it, you "literally can just roll back to..." iOS18. If I can run Sequoia on a 2012 Mini, it is most certainly planned obsolescence. It's fine if Apple wants to roll that way, but let's not pretend that it isn't the business model. Everybody knows it's true. 🤣
I'm not sure what your argument is here, because literally nobody has mentioned the iPhone/iOS, and there are plenty of people in here that can counter your belief that planned obsolescence is real. I know that it's not, and if you believe it does, literally stop using the product. Voting with your dollar is the only way you can extract any sort of change from a company as large as Apple.
Is it planned obsolescence if my 2020 MBP can't run Mac OS X 10.0? Like what is your argument here?
You can send a support request through the app, share the report via e-mail, or directly e-mail. Email address is in the footer of the etresoft.com or etrecheck.com websites.
That overall performance value is usually just a symptom of some other problem. EtreCheck's help has a full description of where this value comes from. Unless there's some major hard drive problem, a poor performance value is going to be tied directly to the overall time it takes EtreCheck to generate the report. That time is heavily dependent on how long it takes various Apple tools like "system_profiler" to run and collect information.
There are various possible causes - low-level system mods like AV software, low free storage, or some other low-level task monopolizing shared resources. The more 3rd party system modifications you have, the greater the chance that one of them, or some combination, isn't working well with Tahoe. Yet for some reason, people seem awfully attached to those things. They'll update their OS right away, then they'll rage for months on the internet, but it seems they rarely try to remove potential problems, even if it's just to see how the system should perform with no complications.
And finally, it's important to highlight the obvious. Apple isn't going to make any new OS update faster. New features like Apple Intelligence and Liquid Glass all come at a cost, even if that cost isn't expressed in dollars for a free upgrade. It is possible to make improvements by removing 3rd party system mods, but it's never going to run like when it was new. Ventura on my M1 MacBook Pro was great. Ventura on my old 2017 MacBook Pro is a dog. This whole thread is about "planned obsolescence". It's not wrong. It's just that few people have the discipline to pass on those tempting, free updates. New and shiny things are always available. You can pay for them in cash or pay for them in CPU cycles, but they ain't ever free.
IDK, ordered it Dec 2019, finally shipped Jan 2020. Paying EPP (employee/family/friends) price so 25 points off retail. Post filling it up with stuff like RAM, discs, etc, easily double that approaching $25-30K pre-COVID dollars.
It's beautiful, highly over-engineered heavy metal sculpture and the end of an era 🤷♂️
Blah blah blah, I'm upset! <screaming at cloud>
But, I have this strange sense of deja vu, to give them props Apple kept it grinding along a lot longer than the PowerPC to Intel switch, you were here back then too. It's Apple. IDK, in the same boat as you @SDAVE, you've replied to my rant on the topic, and I guess I'm personally at Frozen in Time and Disconnected from Internet, or Linux Uber-Box, flip a coin?
Mac Studio M4 Max is fine. I'm sure M5 will be better and more, and M6 will be even better than that, and so on.
Apple... is kinda spontaneously combusting at the moment, a lot of people just ran out the door. Irrespective of Mac Pro Intel support, their whole entire OS is a s--tshow of crap and Things Falling Apart -- everybody using every new piece of hardware we just released experiencing weird screen flicker in anticipation of our updated Studio Display... please calm down, totally sorry about that, we'll get it fixed within next 5 point updates! -- they need a Snow Leopard and clean up. I somehow don't believe that anybody at Apple cares about the 0.00001% of their market which is us, they can't even be bothered to fix core issues that affect everybody and persist across OS versions. There are infinity rants on same topic on endless OS threads here. It just is what it is. And I guess NeXTStep, OS/X, macOS 15 is it. Or maybe they'll fix it in Tahoe 26.19 because there's one engineer at Apple still using a Mac Pro and it upsets them personally. Who knows.
p.s., FWIW ya it's f-----d up that you got 3 years from a a 2022 purchase, but... such is life in the Apple ecosystem, probably you've already noticed this many times. It's still the least-worst landscape at the moment.
And... I feel ya. It took them 10 f--king years to release a new Cheesegrater, and... it's gone again!
It's beautiful, highly over-engineered heavy metal sculpture and the end of an era 🤷♂️
Blah blah blah, I'm upset! <screaming at cloud>
But, I have this strange sense of deja vu, to give them props Apple kept it grinding along a lot longer than the PowerPC to Intel switch, you were here back then too. It's Apple. IDK, in the same boat as you @SDAVE, you've replied to my rant on the topic, and I guess I'm personally at Frozen in Time and Disconnected from Internet, or Linux Uber-Box, flip a coin?
Mac Studio M4 Max is fine. I'm sure M5 will be better and more, and M6 will be even better than that, and so on.
Apple... is kinda spontaneously combusting at the moment, a lot of people just ran out the door. Irrespective of Mac Pro Intel support, their whole entire OS is a s--tshow of crap and Things Falling Apart -- everybody using every new piece of hardware we just released experiencing weird screen flicker in anticipation of our updated Studio Display... please calm down, totally sorry about that, we'll get it fixed within next 5 point updates! -- they need a Snow Leopard and clean up. I somehow don't believe that anybody at Apple cares about the 0.00001% of their market which is us, they can't even be bothered to fix core issues that affect everybody and persist across OS versions. There are infinity rants on same topic on endless OS threads here. It just is what it is. And I guess NeXTStep, OS/X, macOS 15 is it. Or maybe they'll fix it in Tahoe 26.19 because there's one engineer at Apple still using a Mac Pro and it upsets them personally. Who knows.
p.s., FWIW ya it's f-----d up that you got 3 years from a a 2022 purchase, but... such is life in the Apple ecosystem, probably you've already noticed this many times. It's still the least-worst landscape at the moment.
And... I feel ya. It took them 10 f--king years to release a new Cheesegrater, and... it's gone again!
Yes. It's reverse-planned obsolescence by time-travelers.
I think the argument is, and correct me if I’m wrong @BillyJoeJimBob, but if a base 2012 Mac Mini can run 2024’s macOS Sequoia (12-year gap to hardware) with ease, then even a “base” Mac Pro 7,1 with a couple discrete GPUs with minimum 8GB VRAM should be able to handle macOS Tahoe (6-year gap to hardware) with ease…. unless of course Apple is purposely tanking the performance, or more likely, just doesn’t care enough to optimize Tahoe for Intel.
There’s nothing in Tahoe that should slow down the Intel systems Mac Pro or MBP with +64GB RAM, dedicated GPUs and +8GB VRAM, the eye candy needs to be optimized at minimum. macOS for Intel already lacks a dozen or so AS-only features, and none of the AI integration.
One could make the case for planned obsolescence on Apple’s part considering the poor year-over-year performance of macOS on a system that currently runs last year’s macOS like a champ (and no, Sequoia to Tahoe is not equivalent to Win95 to WinXP), but the more likely reason is Apple just doesn’t care and Tahoe simply fulfills a legal obligation.