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Ah, you just want to complain and to believe what you want to believe without critical thought. Got it.
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This, along with AirPods and wireless Beats, is a better hypothesis based on much firmer ground than "this must be cost cutting."

yes. Just saying "cost cutting" is a bit, simplistic. overall, the goal is to improve revenue's and increase margins, and it's done through different methods that include cost cutting, but also finding new revenue models to increase revenues, while at the same time reducing costs, thus increasing profit margins.
 
Except they aren't forcing you to change anything...they GIVE you an adapter.

So exactly what proprietary crap are you forced to buy? How does this fragment when you can still use the same headphones you have been using? How is that disgusting? Are you forced to buy Apple brand headphones? No other Bluetooth headphones work? No other headphones but Apples work with the lightning adapter that they GIVE you??

I'm not an Apple fanboy, but this whole argument about the headphone jack is absurd. Who cares? The only time this is ever an issue is if you want to charge the device AND listen to music as the same time, and absolutely cannot use Bluetooth headphones, speakers, or adapter instead. This mostly occurs in the car. Then people argue "well what if I don't have any of those Bluetooth things?" Who seriously gets an iPhone 7 and can't get at least a $10 Bluetooth adapter for the car to charge and listen at the same time? Do you seriously want two different cords plugged into your car, draped across your dash, at the same time anyway??

Again, not a fanboy, but people seriously find the most absurd crap to argue about with Apple stuff.
Is it even legal to drive with headphones on? Who does this? Is it safe?
 
Well!!! The great Mackie brand uses these Cirrus Logic converters too and they are really great.

And some brands advertise using Wolfson DAC's - guess what, Cirrus bought Wolfson many years ago. Actually early iPhones had Wolfson DAC's before the acquisition and the measured quality has not degraded at any point. But in audiophile universe the subjective quality is most important, and properties like price and brand name affect the listening experience enormously.
 
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Serious questions here.
1) we know that the phone already ha a DAC and amplifier because it has speakers, why can't this be used for the headphones?
2) look at how small the DAC is in the Lightning connector! This is what they had to remove in order to free up a bunch of space? Couldn't they have just used a smaller DAC like this inside the phone?

I am just confused by everything involved in this. It's like when our mothers told us to eat vegetables. But instead of explaining that they are good for us and keep us healthy we got, "because I said so." In this case though, it's like we were told some random things that have nothing to do with the topic. We took out the jack because we needed space for the speakers (which didn't make it) a larger battery which doesn't encroach on the space, for waterproofing (again not true) and it just took up too much room. Oh but here is the tiniest thing you've seen in a while that does all of that stuff. We certainly couldn't keep it in that empty space. We need that for...

The lightning connector is all digital. There are no analog outputs so you can't just simply wire up the internal DAC/Amp to the lightning pins. This is the same reason why when they went from 30 pin to lightning the adapter for lightning to 30 pin all had their own DACs in them.
 
Aren't some songs protected while others aren't? For example songs that are $1.29 are DRM-free whereas $.99 songs are protected?

Not sure on that at all, I just thought that was the case from years ago.

I only listen to it through iTunes or the phone, so I don't mind the DRM if it's there.

A long, long, long, long time ago. And if you had lots of music with DRM, you just needed to get iTunes Match for one year to upgrade all your DRM'd music to DRM free, and update all low quality mp3's to 256 kBit/s AAC
 
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According to pocketnow testing this adapter cuts everything to only 16bit, seems 6s is better

I find it hilarious when people know just enough to make public fools of themselves...

He wants more shielding in the cable? Why does that little stub need to be shielded better than the long wire up to the headphones? Has he seen the shielding on those lines in the iPhone 6s? There isn't any-- it's a flat ribbon for the analog path from the DAC, past all the rest of the noisy components in the phone, and to the jack.

"That's all just [faux] geeky griping about cables and connectors."

There isn't much space for the DAC and amp? Has he looked at the internals of the iPhone 6s? It's no bigger... Use the bypass caps around the IC for scale.

Your headphones do typically have 4 signals, one of which is the return, sometimes called "ground". It also functions as the shield and is typically connected to the braid on the cable and the outer shield on the device. It is there because voltages need to be measured against something, and that return is what the voltages are measured against.

It is not true ground, because the phone is in your pocket and you're probably wearing shoes and standing on cement, asphalt, wood, or something else that isn't salt water. It is not protecting you from being electrocuted by your headphones. Your headphones have something less than half a volt across them-- not really enough to make you twitch when you have a skin resistance of a couple kOhms. And since the voltage is floating anyway, because it's all battery powered, the whole statement is just layered in absurdities...

The iPhone is not sending those 4 connections to the lightning port. It is sending a digital serial signal to the lightning port, and the adapter is creating those 4 from it. Instead of going from digital to those 4 inside the phone, it now does it outside the phone.

I have no idea what it means to say the phone will play 24 or 32 bit files but that the output will be cut back down to 16 bit. The DAC determines what can be played. Does he just mean that you can store 32bit audio on the phone and transcode it to 16bit to send to the DAC? How is that different from the 6s? To "play" a 32bit file, you need to be able to store it, read it, and convert it-- nothing with a 16 bit DAC can play a 32bit file...

He then goes on to compare a single sample of the iPhone 7 with a single sample of the 6s, says that the differences are imperceptible, and continues to whine that the iPhone 7 is somehow worse. His chart shows 2dB higher noise levels, down at -100dBA. 0dBA is the limit human perception, and 3dB is what's barely perceptible. So it's 100dB below audible to begin with and then below the just noticeable difference. On the other hand, the chart he's showing says the iPhone 7 reduces stereo cross talk by 8dB (not dBA)-- granted 80dB below the direct sound is pretty weak, as a measure of "error" the cross talk swamps the random noise and is probably closer to the level of perception. I'd call these two outputs pretty much the same psychoacoustically, and if I had to make a call scientifically on the numbers, I'd give the win to the iPhone 7 adapter. Because he doesn't understand the numbers, he says it got worse.

He says this move means that this is creating a future where if you want to hear the full scope and dynamic range of your high quality audio files, you're going to have to buy headphones that have their own DAC and amp built in to them-- which is also the past because he just said that the quality of the 6s is no better...

But you know, the LG 32bit (a measure of dynamic range) DAC can generate frequencies of sounds that dogs can't even hear-- and that's important.


And then, after all of this misinformation and lack of understanding of how this stuff works, he says that Apple is hiding behind misinformation and a general lack of understanding of how this stuff works...

So, having started his review wishing the adapter was longer, it turns out Apple gave him an adapter just long enough to hang himself with.
 
Proprietary = license = profit = Apple

If Apple has been serious iPhone 7 would have launched with USB C, it didn't just another cash grab. Same applies to those that produce reputable third party chargers for IOS devices with specific components being licensed to Apple...

Q-6

Wasn't there some kind of mandate for all phone manufacturers to use the same connector / charging port? If so, why does Apple continually disrespect consumers and standards?
 
It's a shame that people who bought $500+ high-end high quality headphones and have all of their music in FLAC will have to use a dongle with a piece of **** DAC in it.
It's a market opportunity for someone to make a connector with a higher quality DAC.

In reality, you need two things: Digital to Analog conversion, and _power_. I can't find any numbers how much power the lightning connector provides, but it should reasonably supply as much power as the 3.5 mm connector did, so an efficient DAC should work at least as well as the old connector.

So we have an opportunity for an adapter with better DAC (and a choice of black or white cable, please), or an adapter combined with a self powered headphone amplifier.
 
I honestly believed apple would have kept the internal iPhone DAC and Amp and run through the lighting port straight to headphones. I didn't really stop to think that lighting prohibited that as it's all digital and auto switches pins etc!

I saw someone on youtube test the audio quality between iPhone 6s and iPhone 7 and it was worse but not in a terrible way
. He even insinuated that there wasn't a DAC in the small cable as well. Maybe we need some proper testing especially of third party DACs. I don't like the idea of shifting a standard DAC we can trust for quality to the responsibility of third party vendors. I already dislike lighting audio for it's proprietary nature and more now I think it's the devil.
 
So what's it like not being able to charge and use it at the same time? Or maybe you don't spend 4-6 hours on conference calls, and another 6 traveling and listening to music a day?
Should be no problem with the 7+.
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Also... for those that are audiophiles, the output amplifier can be better and better matched to your particular headphones.
That could be very useful to create headphones that are cheap to build but still have good frequency response - just measure the frequency response of the headphones, then build a DAC that exactly counteracts any faults of the headphones.
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Wasn't there some kind of mandate for all phone manufacturers to use the same connector / charging port? If so, why does Apple continually disrespect consumers and standards?
The standards are for the chargers. Chargers are expensive, cables are cheap. And all the chargers let you plug in a cable with USB at one end, and whatever you want on the other end.
 
Yes, and Yes - you can pay upwards of £1,000 for a top-end DAC! The question really is whether this DAC is at least as good as the one that's built in to the iPhone and I'd guess it will be but time will tell

It also means that any cheaper third party headphones will be additionally awful because they'll skimp on the DAC to reduce manufacturing costs.

We also must assume that they implement decent software in the lightning adapter to wake up and use the headphones. The first wave (and really cheap future headphones) might have strange glitches from incorrect implementations.

On the upside, there may be less noise in the circuit because it is external from the case.

This change might feel good in a half dozen years, but by then hopefully we won't be using Lightning and something like USB-C. Although by then the wireless audio protocols (such as Bluetooth) will be better than supposed CD quality.

Removing the headphone jack might force faster iteration on wireless protocol development, for instance, and miniature battery molding. So we get good wireless headphones in 2-3 years instead of 4-5. For example. But like with many things Apple removes, the immediate future is painful and probably worse than before.
 
Wasn't there some kind of mandate for all phone manufacturers to use the same connector / charging port? If so, why does Apple continually disrespect consumers and standards?

Even if only a small percentage of iPhone 7 owners choose to purchase after market Lightening earphones/headphones Apple will likely stand to make a very decent profit for doing basically nothing, other than locking it`s customers into a proprietary connector.

Had Apple opted for USB C, I may have gone along with the "courage" speech, being as Apple opted for Lightening it`s more aligned with profitability & greed. Just matter of time before same applies to the Mac. Personally I have no issue with devices going fully digital, however do have issue how Apple has executed it.

To answer your question $$$$

Q-6
 
I honestly believed apple would have kept the internal iPhone DAC and Amp and run through the lighting port straight to headphones. I didn't really stop to think that lighting prohibited that as it's all digital and auto switches pins etc!

I saw someone on youtube test the audio quality between iPhone 6s and iPhone 7 and it was worse but not in a terrible way
. He even insinuated that there wasn't a DAC in the small cable as well. Maybe we need some proper testing especially of third party DACs. I don't like the idea of shifting a standard DAC we can trust for quality to the responsibility of third party vendors. I already dislike lighting audio for it's proprietary nature and more now I think it's the devil.

It also means that any cheaper third party headphones will be additionally awful because they'll skimp on the DAC to reduce manufacturing costs.

We also must assume that they implement decent software in the lightning adapter to wake up and use the headphones. The first wave (and really cheap future headphones) might have strange glitches from incorrect implementations.

On the upside, there may be less noise in the circuit because it is external from the case.

This change might feel good in a half dozen years, but by then hopefully we won't be using Lightning and something like USB-C. Although by then the wireless audio protocols (such as Bluetooth) will be better than supposed CD quality.

Removing the headphone jack might force faster iteration on wireless protocol development, for instance, and miniature battery molding. So we get good wireless headphones in 2-3 years instead of 4-5. For example. But like with many things Apple removes, the immediate future is painful and probably worse than before.


Actually it doesn't matter what you get from a third party. Most people don't buy a pair of headphones on specs alone. They put them on their ears and ideally listen to a trusted music source and genre they will be using them with, and determine which they think sounds best.

If a third party puts a DAC which specs are inferior on paper, but the implementation sounds better than another one that has technically superior specs, the customer is most likely going to buy the one that sounds better. Add to that for manufacturers who use crappy sounding DACs, they won't likely stay in business very long.

This argument has been a non-starter since day one.
 
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The standards are for the chargers. Chargers are expensive, cables are cheap. And all the chargers let you plug in a cable with USB at one end, and whatever you want on the other end.

That's a pretty lousy half measure. Should be both the cable, charger and connector. Make it simple for everyone across the board. This obsession Apple has for making things proprietary is almost criminal.
 
And some brands advertise using Wolfson DAC's - guess what, Cirrus bought Wolfson many years ago. Actually early iPhones had Wolfson DAC's before the acquisition and the measured quality has not degraded at any point. But in audiophile universe the subjective quality is most important, and properties like price and brand name affect the listening experience enormously.

This. Over the last 25 years we have seen huge leaps in technology coupled with a drop in price. For example, a $20 camera sensor today will outperform a $1,000 sensor used in early DSLRs. This is also true for processors, memory, hard drives, video cards, TVs and on and on.

Yet if you tell an "audiophile" that you can buy a high-end 24bit DAC for under $10 they scoff. They are so caught up in price that they simply refuse to believe that something that used to cost $1,000 is now a fraction of the price, and likely performs better. This is the only industry (tech/electronic) I can think of where people refuse to believe that things get better and cheaper over time.
 
If there wasn't a DAC....how else would make sound?
A DAC is what they call a specific type of signal converter. A DAC is not the only way to "make sound", and certainly not common because an actual DAC is expensive and typically only appreciated by audiophiles and musicians.

I actually couldn't be happier reading this news as it solves a problem I was having much trouble with solving. I bought an external portable AMP & DAC (with analog tubes!) and didn't have a way yet to use it with my iPhone, other than using the 3.5 mini jack which degrades the digital audio stream, which I really want to prevent because I like listening to music in uncompressed formats (FLAC & DSD.)

Unfortunately finding the required lightning to microUSB adapter with these "DAC" chips onboard turned out to be really hard. I found only 2 online costing at least $30 (plus shipping and import fees) without the guarantee they would work with my device.

Apple apparently solved it for me as I'll be upgrading soon! Yaj!
 
Anybody knows if the "quality" of the DAC can impact the quality of sound? If yes... how good are the ones provided by Apple? Are there better ones?
Yes, considering it's just one component in a $9 adapter, they must have spent at least a quarter on this bad boy, maybe even a buck (let's not get carried away), it's hard to conceive there are many cheaper ones, (although feel free to enlighten me).

Gotta cut corners somewhere with a $700+ Phone. Using "quality" in quotes seems appropriate.
 
Wasn't there some kind of mandate for all phone manufacturers to use the same connector / charging port? If so, why does Apple continually disrespect consumers and standards?
Because consumers keep throwing huge wads of money at Apple, regardless of how little regard Apple shows for them.
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A DAC is what they call a specific type of signal converter. A DAC is not the only way to "make sound", and certainly not common because an actual DAC is expensive and typically only appreciated by audiophiles and musicians.
Please point to a single digital, music-playback, device that doesn't have at least one DAC.
 
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