Teardown of New Mac Pro Reveals Surprising Amount of Accessibility, Circular Daughterboard

[milo]

One thing that seems like it could throw a wrench in the whole swap/upgrade GPU thing is the fact that one of the two GPU cards also includes the SSD housing. So the two GPU cards are different, looks like there are other differences as well.

I don't really get why apple did it that way instead of making both the same (including dual SSD sockets) and saving the costs of two different designs and parts. Any ideas why they might have done it that way?

Is the socket any different between the two GPU cards? I'm not surprised nobody is willing to try it, but I'm dying to know what would happen if you tried to run the machine with two of the SSD versions (assuming the sockets are the same). Or even switching the two cards or trying to run the machine with just one of the GPU cards to see if that config would be theoretically possible. They hint at that in their teardown, but it seems like Apple wouldn't go with two different boards without a good reason. My guess was either there was a technical limitation that made a second SSD impossible, or for some reason the SSD version made it considerably more expensive. The fact that in a single machine, the two GPU cards are made in china and taiwan is particularly wacky.

Anyone know what those two silver circles are in the corners of each GPU card? They are on opposite sides on the two GPUs. I wonder if they are just some sort of basic connector and sensor to ensure that the card is present and make sure the two don't get switched, or two of the same one installed? Or even something to try and make it harder to try and build a third party replacement card? Or could those two possibly supply power instead of sending it through that big multi pin connector?


So far this is looking like a great machine although I'm still disappointed they didn't insist on making it fit eight ram slots and two (or more!) SSD sockets.

And I'd love to finally see 10Gb ethernet. I know it's still very expensive, why is that? And yes, the cables and hubs are expensive but it would be great to have even if it is just to connect two MP. I guess Apple would rather us use TB2 direct for that, but it's nice to have options.

 

[kalsta]

Funny enough I think they should have mentioned all these new facts back at the announcement. It would have quelled much of the criticism.

If they made too big a deal out of repairability, they'd be shaming the rest of their product lineup. I don't expect they were terribly worried about a few disgruntled MacRumors trolls.

 

[Professor X]

This looks like it just came out of some high-budget sci-fi movie.

Image

This is a part of Darth Vader's helmet.

 

[flat five]

One thing that seems like it could throw a wrench in the whole swap/upgrade GPU thing is the fact that one of the two GPU cards also includes the SSD housing. So the two GPU cards are different, looks like there are other differences as well.

yeah.. the main difference as far as unique gpus goes are the 2 torx screws up top.. their locations are bookmatched/mirrored so there's clearly a left gpu and a right one.. they're not interchangeable by design.


(add) prototype pictures had those 2 screws labeled as "GND" and "12V"... there are 2 accompanying finger-sized holes in the thermal core which interplay with these torx screws.. it seems this is one reasoning behind the unique left/right gpus.. a sort of electrical logistics situation.

 

[milo]

I'd be thrilled with it if they offered an alternative non Xenon motherboard and high-end gaming card for around $2k.

Why non xeon? The xeons are the same price as the similar four and six core i7. I guess there could be some savings by not needing ECC memory but for a gaming machine you probably don't need that much anyway, and those prices will come down before long. For that market they'd probably be more likely to just beef up the specs on a high end mini or iMac.

The more I think about it, the more having GPU on daughter cards instead of PCI style cares make more and more sense.

Not only does it establish Thunderbolt as the defacto display technology going forward, it reduces redundancy/cost in having video out related ports on the cards themselves.

Interesting point, I wouldn't be surprised if a major factor in the proprietary GPU connection is because of thunderbolt's specific limitations in how both data transfer and video output are handled. I remember before the MP announcement some people insisted that the new MP couldn't have TB because there wasn't a way to build a machine that had TB without requiring integrated video hardware.

It's taken Apple 30 years to catch up with PCs! Congrats! Now the next step is to sell components in stores and online so that people can upgrade their computers themselves. Maybe one day a RAM upgrade won't cost $400.

Hard to tell if this is a satirical post or a serious one, considering that macs have used the same RAM as PCs since at least the intel switch. Were you also unaware that the previous mac pro could use the same internal hard drives as a PC?

 

[joeblough]

the 3 big flat connectors at the bottom of the daughtercard are not proprietary. they are so-called "mezzanine" connectors, and different manufacturers make them.

we were using those connectors to mate daugthercards to motherboards way back in 2000 or 2001. i can't remember if they are amphenol or molex connectors but they are not new and can be purchased on the open market.

same is probably true of the middle connector.

this connector is similar but might not be the same one:

http://www.molex.com/molex/products...tle=Introduction&parentKey=mezzanine_products

connector design is a lot harder than people realize and even with all the resources apple has, most likely if they need a custom connector they will work with molex or amphenol to get it done. after some time it will appear in the connector vendor's catalog.

 

[Spinland]

It's educational to encounter a post that is unequivocal goodness and see how some people still manage to warp their comprehension around their personal demons to make a negative. i know that in general internet forums tend to devolve into pits of woe and despair, but seeing it actually happen is instructional.

Bravo to Apple for another winner, and I look forward to many years of enjoyable--and profitable--use of mine.

 

[HyperZboy]

I'd be thrilled with it if they offered an alternative non Xenon motherboard and high-end gaming card for around $2k. With two slots, they could even do a SLI-like setup. They could make the ultimate consumer machine at a competitive price (and a consumer monster wouldn't really need internal upgradeable cards other than the graphics one which is removable).

As it is, I'm sure it will be great for some video professionals and some audio ones as well, but the question is whether or not they'll keep it up-to-date and offer GPU upgrades as time goes on, etc. for them.

I posted something similar... Some PowerMacs started at $1299 and some Mac Pros started under $2000 even after the iMac was released, so there is really a whole other market for this form factor in my opinion without some of the most high end features that would be more preferable than my current low end G5 & Mac Pro. But this machine, while awesome in many ways, starts at $1500 MORE than my current Mac Pro, which was used in Hollywood production work. I don't use it for that reason, but honestly I think with just ONE graphics card + a large small HD drive in place of the other GPU, at $1999, it would be a machine I would buy as a gaming machine or as a high end home media device. I currently play videos in HD to my TV all the time from my current Mac Pro, but it cost HALF as much. Doesn't need to have a XEON or ECC either really. Could be easily done I think.

Just food for thought, not criticizing.

 

[wiz329]

One thing that seems like it could throw a wrench in the whole swap/upgrade GPU thing is the fact that one of the two GPU cards also includes the SSD housing. So the two GPU cards are different, looks like there are other differences as well.

I don't really get why apple did it that way instead of making both the same (including dual SSD sockets) and saving the costs of two different designs and parts. Any ideas why they might have done it that way?

Is the socket any different between the two GPU cards? I'm not surprised nobody is willing to try it, but I'm dying to know what would happen if you tried to run the machine with two of the SSD versions (assuming the sockets are the same). Or even switching the two cards or trying to run the machine with just one of the GPU cards to see if that config would be theoretically possible. They hint at that in their teardown, but it seems like Apple wouldn't go with two different boards without a good reason. My guess was either there was a technical limitation that made a second SSD impossible, or for some reason the SSD version made it considerably more expensive. The fact that in a single machine, the two GPU cards are made in china and taiwan is particularly wacky.

Anyone know what those two silver circles are in the corners of each GPU card? They are on opposite sides on the two GPUs. I wonder if they are just some sort of basic connector and sensor to ensure that the card is present and make sure the two don't get switched, or two of the same one installed? Or even something to try and make it harder to try and build a third party replacement card? Or could those two possibly supply power instead of sending it through that big multi pin connector?


So far this is looking like a great machine although I'm still disappointed they didn't insist on making it fit eight ram slots and two (or more!) SSD sockets.

And I'd love to finally see 10Gb ethernet. I know it's still very expensive, why is that? And yes, the cables and hubs are expensive but it would be great to have even if it is just to connect two MP. I guess Apple would rather us use TB2 direct for that, but it's nice to have options.

The reason is likely a shortage of PCIe lanes. Since there's only one CPU, there's only 40 lanes. With 3 TB controllers, as well as 2 GPUs, every last one of those lanes are in use.

Same reason (essentially) for only 4 memory slots.

Also, is the storage slot on the board or on the GPU itself?

 

[HyperZboy]

Hard to tell if this is a satirical post or a serious one, considering that macs have used the same RAM as PCs since at least the intel switch. Were you also unaware that the previous mac pro could use the same internal hard drives as a PC?

Several post have pointed out Apple's "premium cost" on customizing or upgrading.
It's not like this is a new thing for Apple.

Someone in another thread pointed out that you could easily buy the base MacPro and upgrade the processor or SSD for as much as $1500 LESS! I think in one scenario it was more than $2000 LESS!

As President Clinton famously said, "It's the economy stupid."

 

[koulmj]

I'm going to wait until the Mac Pro S comes out next year.

By the time it comes out u could just wait and buy a Mac Pro Air...

 

[wovel]

Proprietary connectors is NOT my idea of upgradeable. If I have to buy Apples upgrade at Apples upgrade price, NO THANKS!

So don't buy it. Live in the past with your 5 cooling fans at 70db, nobody cares.

 

[MacTCE]

After seeing this I'm totally second guessing getting one. If all the major components can be upgraded then I would guess more most users would be able to keep them 2-3x longer.

 

[fredaroony]

The engineering in this thing is 10 years ahead of anyone else. Apple is really bringing its A game here.

10 years??? Yes it's a nice design but 10 years ahead of everyone is such an over the top statement.

 

[djtech42]

Steve would be proud.

 

[bbeagle]

Very impressive. Apple has managed to keep the smaller new Mac Pro highly modular. If upgrades do become available in the aftermarket, it will do a lot to silence the nay-sayers.

No it won't. Nay-sayers just want to find something - anything wrong with this machine to bash it. If they can't bash the modularity, they'll bash something else. It's just the way they are. Ignore them.

 

[fredaroony]

It really is a beautiful machine inside, and I hope the rest of the computer industry takes notice.

The design internally is fantastic but the outside looks ridiculous..to me anyway. I would still buy one though but not at the starting price of $4000AUS

 

[ytoyoda]

Anyone know what those two silver circles are in the corners of each GPU card? They are on opposite sides on the two GPUs. I wonder if they are just some sort of basic connector and sensor to ensure that the card is present and make sure the two don't get switched, or two of the same one installed? Or even something to try and make it harder to try and build a third party replacement card? Or could those two possibly supply power instead of sending it through that big multi pin connector?

I think, those two silver circles are power connection, GND and +12V. Those are positioned on opposite sides, because that sides are closer to power supply unit.

I have no idea about the difference of connectors on the bottom.

 

[CodeJingle]

It would be great if Apple had their own upgrade system. They would sell upgrade components and install them for you as part of the cost of the upgrade, although the dream may be too big to think Apple would give you some kind of rebate for the return of the original component being upgraded (instead of having to sell it on eBay for scraps).

There is no money to be made in an upgrade market for cheap components, but with the Mac Pro having components that by themselves cost thousands of dollars each the market for upgrades is viable. The only downside is how difficult it would be get money back for the original component otherwise that money is just being thrown away.

I am waiting to hear about the first people receiving custom configured Mac Pros. Hopefully custom configurations start shipping before February. That would be a pleasant surprise.

 

[Spinland]

I am waiting to hear about the first people that receive a custom configured Mac Pro. Hopefully they start shipping before February, it would be a pleasant surprise.

This post indicates the first mention I've seen of a BTO unit being shipped:

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/18572685/

 

[wizard]

Is it wrong that I've been way too overly excited for this teardown despite the fact that I can't afford a Mac Pro?

And the 8/10 score is pretty high.

Not at all! This is good engineering and frankly inspiring.

Beyond that this information needs to be widely publicized due to all the negativity from the proprietary non repairable crowd. It is possibly the combination of the most innovative and portable computer design to come about in years.

 

[Parasprite]

It's nice to see all Nippon Chemi-Con caps in the power supply.
Subtle details, but capacitors are the most likely component to fail in a PSU so I wouldn't expect Apple to skimp on them.

As someone who's experience in fixing electronics (satellite receivers, security cameras) involved about 6 months in a little store that only had 3 employees in total, the capacitors seem like the most likely thing to go out in any electronics. I was continually amazed at how my boss managed to charge people $75 a pop for a job that involved replacing a single capacitor. Anything that improves the experience with that is inspiring (especially when so many company's use poor quality ones).

For those that don't know, replacing a single capacitor is extremely easy, and takes less than 5 minutes even if you are inexperienced. This is something that you could probably teach to 90% of your average grocery store workers (provides they'd let you).

 

[apolloa]

God damn it Mac Rumours! Stop posting pornography will you?

Your really not helping my plan to get this and a Surface Pro 2. I reaaalllyyyy want a Mac Pro.

 

[wiz329]

So don't buy it. Live in the past with your 5 cooling fans at 70db, nobody cares.

Do you know how loud 70 dB is?

 

[the8thark]

I must be out of the loop with the whole "daughterboard" term. I am surprised at the insides, they're crazy cool and I can't believe the size of this thing.

Mothers have children you know? And this one was a girl.