Teardown of New Mac Pro Reveals Surprising Amount of Accessibility, Circular Daughterboard

[wiz329]

There's a reason the Mac Pro is designed as a wind tunnel (think jet engine). It allows for greater efficiency. The graphics cards and processors are quite energy efficient & add in across the board efficiencies from Apple's design, 450W is plenty of power. Apple is one of the best at electronic efficiency. Anyone can make a beast of a computer that runs on a 1000W power supply but to make a beautiful beast of a computer run on 450W is elegant engineering.

Your explanation sounds great, but doesn't make much sense to me on closer scrutiny.

Cooling efficiency has nothing to do with power efficiency.

Just because a system can dissipate heat quickly and with little noise doesn't mean it is efficient in using power in the first place.

The efficiency of the core power-sucking parts has nothing to do with Apple (beyond their selection of them). An intel Xeon CPU is an intel Xeon CPU, no matter if it is in a Dell Workstation or in this (admittedly brilliantly engineered) machine. Similarly, Apple has to take parts from AMD, just like other workstations. While they may have their pick of the binned parts, I doubt it would give them that much of an efficiency edge.

 

[prowlmedia]

Why is the formatting on your post so weird? Very hard to read.

It's like a geek poem

 

[wiz329]

Ding ding. Yeppers. I mean a computer is barely upgradable now for the most part other then RAM and Graphics Card. Most of the time, when you're ready to upgrade which is 2 years after you purchase, the better chips use a new socket, MB, Memory config, etc.

OK, so you want to buy a new graphics card, so you need a new logic board. What on the system AREN'T you replacing then? If you're going to a new socket, you'd also have to replace the CPU, no?

May as well just buy a new system.

 

[Alphabetize]

Hoping that Apple somehow puts upgradable RAM back in the MacBooks.

 

[wiz329]

So...can the GPU board without the SSD slot be replaced with one that has it? It would be nice to have two SSDs internally...

Doubtful. With only a single socket, PCIe lanes are going to be at a premium (x40). My guess is that every single one is in use.

 

[OrangeSVTguy]

I chuckle at the host of nay-sayers a few months back complaining about this "closed system" . This is probably one of the easiest machines to upgrade.

The only other thing besides CPU that would be worth upgrading are the proprietary GPUs. And then if a 3rd party manufacturer designs new GPUs, they will have to be mass produced for a decent price and fit within the power limits of the original GPU. At least with the older style Mac Pro, I was able to add another power supply to power more powerful GPUs. I don't see any place to add another power supply unless someone comes out with a more powerful and expensive power supply.

 

[wiz329]

So why you read it?Why to answer me talking about my poor english.I don't find this so interesting the way i put commas here.
Leaving my poor english out of this,
whats your opinion about my speculations? Do you find them realistic,absurd,off topic,none or the above?

I read it because I wanted to hear what you had to say.

I was speaking of the formatting (weird line breaks in the middle of sentences), not grammar.

As to your speculations:

(1) PSU likely does not step up past 450W.

(2) It's certainly possible, but I doubt that Apple would get rid of either the mini or the iMac. One uses desktop parts (sort of), and the other uses laptop parts. In addition, one is an all-in-one, one is not.

 

[jasonvp]

Unfortunately, it would probably void the warranty, which most buyers won't be too keen on doing. At least yet.

Of course it will. Several of us are adventurous enough to try it though, were we able to technically get away with it. The 8-core 2600-series Xeon with the 150W TDP is a fairly nice chip. Expensive, yes. Power-hungry, totally. I'd venture to guess it would be easy to do the swap and it'd run just fine. But having a bigger PS would give someone a little more breathing room.

 

[prowlmedia]

I'd be thrilled with it if they offered an alternative non Xenon motherboard and high-end gaming card for around $2k. With two slots, they could even do a SLI-like setup. They could make the ultimate consumer machine at a competitive price (and a consumer monster wouldn't really need internal upgradeable cards other than the graphics one which is removable).

As it is, I'm sure it will be great for some video professionals and some audio ones as well, but the question is whether or not they'll keep it up-to-date and offer GPU upgrades as time goes on, etc. for them.

Perhaps they will in the future. Now they have the form factor - it's definitely a cheaper build in terms of parts and materials and certainly cheaper to ship! I am sure the R&D and initial factory setup was incredibly costly though.

I think this is an SLI setup no?

And I think you are confusing a consumer unit with an enthusiast unit. A consumer unit is like the mac mini. I reckon 90% Consumers won't have ever opened their machine ever or even think about it. and those that have, have put in more RAM or swapped out a Hard drive.

Gamers are different and want 100% the fastest machine they can

And Enthusiast Geeks however will spec their machine to the max they can afford even if they don't need the power at all. It's like people who customise cars. They Don't really need to... they just want to.

But yeah a Cheaper i5-i7 Version using the same shell... why not.

 

[Arran]

In 2014 let's bring the Mini and the missing link.

Maybe the new mini will be cylindrical too?

Soda can sized. Like that second image in the ifixit teardown.

 

[wiz329]

Given the 4K video tests and 3D stuff I have seen I am guessing not. It's a beast - well a spec'd up version is...But even the 4 core is fine!

Most of that is probably done on GPU. It would be interesting to test a scenario that taxes all three components at full load.

 

[DudeDad]

Boy, Apple REALLY blew it. Seriously, that machine should be 1/2 inch shorter. Unreal. And the diameter? Please, 1/4 inch less would have placed this on my must-buy list. And Black? It's more of a dark smoke gray than black. If they had made it true black, I'd buy it at any price. Oh, and the fact that it's ONLY a desktop computer and not something that can be detached and worn on my wrist is so, so yesterday. Steve never would have produced this mess.

 

[McGiord]

Your explanation sounds great, but doesn't make much sense to me on closer scrutiny.

Cooling efficiency has nothing to do with power efficiency.

Just because a system can dissipate heat quickly and with little noise doesn't mean it is efficient in using power in the first place.

The efficiency of the core power-sucking parts has nothing to do with Apple (beyond their selection of them). An intel Xeon CPU is an intel Xeon CPU, no matter if it is in a Dell Workstation or in this (admittedly brilliantly engineered) machine. Similarly, Apple has to take parts from AMD, just like other workstations. While they may have their pick of the binned parts, I doubt it would give them that much of an efficiency edge.

The heat coming out of the processor is energy that is lost and not efficiently used, if the processor is more efficient then the energy used towards processing its better used therefore less heat.
If the system is optimized then the loss is minimal.

 

[wallysb01]

Very nice write up, I’ve been waiting to see how that CPU comes out with a little more detail for a while. Many in Mac Pro forum know I’ve been very skeptical of the ability to easily and reliably replace the CPU, but I stand corrected. While you do have to basically completely disassemble the machine to do it, it all looks fairly easy (but so many steps does increase the chance of an oops). But over all it looks like you just peal back that logic board and you’re there. You don’t actually need to touch those screws sitting on top of the CPU, which is what I was worried about, as uneven tightening of those could damage the CPU/socket.

I think we still need some individual owners posting their experience trying to do this, but in general it does seem like the CPU replaceability issue is solved.

I’m a little surprised that it scores an 8/10 without a replaceable GPU or PSU, unless you have a MP to use as spare parts. Though, it would be very interesting to see someone cannibalize the GPU with the SSD from a second Mac Pro and try to put 2 of the SSDs into one Mac Pro and see what happens. I’m guessing Apple didn’t do this because of PCIe lane limitations, but we still need more info to know for sure.

On a side note, my three year old saw me looking at the iFixit pictures and asked me if the Mac Pro was a dumpster! iDumpster it is.

 

[prowlmedia]

(2) It's certainly possible, but I doubt that Apple would get rid of either the mini or the iMac. One uses desktop parts (sort of), and the other uses laptop parts. In addition, one is an all-in-one, one is not.

Just as a point here... so what? To probably 95% of buyers they don't care what is inside the machine, so long as it reliable and smooth!

My parents 2007 iMac still works as well as it did on day 1 and is just as slick with Mavericks on it.

That's part of the reason Apple keep the product line small. Easy to make sure it all works well. I am sure they have a testing room with every SKU and spec of machine going back 10 year or till end of support life that all the OSX builds get pushed to.

 

[wiz329]

Of course it will. Several of us are adventurous enough to try it though, were we able to technically get away with it. The 8-core 2600-series Xeon with the 150W TDP is a fairly nice chip. Expensive, yes. Power-hungry, totally. I'd venture to guess it would be easy to do the swap and it'd run just fine. But having a bigger PS would give someone a little more breathing room.

OWC will probably have a tested answer for you in a month or so (how the system handles 150W chips).

 

[jasonvp]

Most of that is probably done on GPU. It would be interesting to test a scenario that taxes all three components at full load.

Won't Luxmark do that? If I'm not mistaken: you can tell Luxmark to use any and all processing power it can get its paws on... right?

Run that test, and then keep an eye on what speed the CPU is running at. Under substantial load, I bet it starts ticking itself down. I'd be happy to be wrong there.

 

[HurryKayne]

I'd be thrilled with it if they offered an alternative non Xenon motherboard and high-end gaming card for around $2k. With two slots, they could even do a SLI-like setup. They could make the ultimate consumer machine at a competitive price (and a consumer monster wouldn't really need internal upgradeable cards other than the graphics one which is removable).

This sounds so new Mac Mini^^,actually sounds really sweet.

 

[nagromme]

Family tree

Shouldn't the round card be referred to as the motherboard? It's the board to which all others attach. The processor is on a daughterboard.

/nitpick

I see a 6-core in my future... I'll save on cores, get the highest GPUs, and gamble on a bright OpenCL future!

 

[prowlmedia]

Most of that is probably done on GPU. It would be interesting to test a scenario that taxes all three components at full load.

Well Particle effects in 3d will be handled by GPU and and Any Cores available.

So to will tools like Mari... which Pixar did their WWDC demo on the new mac pro. Which utterly blew my mind. Way more than anything else so far.

 

[HurryKayne]

The heat coming out of the processor is energy that is lost and not efficiently used, if the processor is more efficient then the energy used towards processing its better used therefore less heat.
If the system is optimized then the loss is minimal.

So do i,i feel Apple placed a really magnificent Power engineering here.
When Barefeats and AnandTech will get Top of the line on bench would be really interesting to read their findings.

 

[baryon]

Apple is firmly stating that it is not abandoning the Pro audience. Good to hear, and this is a worthy and smart revival of the Mac Pro.

 

[GoCubsGo]

I must be out of the loop with the whole "daughterboard" term. I am surprised at the insides, they're crazy cool and I can't believe the size of this thing.

 

[prowlmedia]

Boy, Apple REALLY blew it. Seriously, that machine should be 1/2 inch shorter. Unreal. And the diameter? Please, 1/4 inch less would have placed this on my must-buy list. And Black? It's more of a dark smoke gray than black. If they had made it true black, I'd buy it at any price. Oh, and the fact that it's ONLY a desktop computer and not something that can be detached and worn on my wrist is so, so yesterday. Steve never would have produced this mess.

Careful.There is a sarcasm void on Macrumors

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The only other thing besides CPU that would be worth upgrading are the proprietary GPUs. And then if a 3rd party manufacturer designs new GPUs, they will have to be mass produced for a decent price and fit within the power limits of the original GPU. At least with the older style Mac Pro, I was able to add another power supply to power more powerful GPUs. I don't see any place to add another power supply unless someone comes out with a more powerful and expensive power supply.

Well that's all possible of course. if the connector is allowed to be used... but more importantly the Drivers would need to be there... and that's up to Apple working with Nvidia.

Are there any other Graphics card manufactures out there apart from ATI and Nvidia anymore? Matrox still going?

 

[wiz329]

The heat coming out of the processor is energy that is lost and not efficiently used, if the processor is more efficient then the energy used towards processing its better used therefore less heat.
If the system is optimized then the loss is minimal.

But doesn't this still have to do exclusively with the efficiency of the processor?

I get that heat is a result of "inefficiency". But the only way the "system" could affect the energy efficiency of the processor is if temperatures dramatically affect the running efficiency of the processor. In any case, I'd be surprised if the temps are extremely low, given the low fan speed of the system. Is it sufficient? Sure. But lower temps than other workstations? Doubtful.