Telegram CEO Accuses Apple of Destroying Dreams and Crushing Entrepreneurs

[ender78]

Yes but what about developers who don't want to use Apple's store or servers or bandwidth?

Dont like the Apple model ?They are free to develop for Android.

Apple's business model takes revenue from all aspects of the product portfolio. They decide what margins they want to sell at. When buying the product, you buy into the whole ecosystem. You know that all apps have to be purchased through the App Store. If you don't like that deal, buy another product.

 

[sirozha]

Yeah, it‘s very popular in German Nazi circles. Some dumb Nazi Telegram users used an open Telegram group to plan the abduction and killing of the acting German health secretary and got snatched by the police. These people are so dumb or sure of themselves that they even use their real names as their Telegram usernames. 😂

And? Nazis had hospitals in WWII, so are hospitals evil?

 

[sirozha]

Nope. See, this conversation is completely lost on you people. That's not what anti-trust is. You didn't answer the actual question I asked you. The answer is: none.

No one anywhere has any "right" under any law to participate in or sell anything on Apple's platform. I think average folks who don't know the law very well are being confused by high profile tech people who know full well that they have no claim, and count on rallying support to disguise that.

As the judge ruled in Epic's case, Apple's success does not automatically make it into a utility that is owned by the people.

This is not an Apple platform. This is a Telegram platform. Telegram works across the Apple and Android mobile platforms. Apple gets paid by those Telegram users who buy Apple phones in order to use Telegram; not the other way around. These same users can buy Android phones instead to use Telegram.

 

[vikingjunior]

Isn't the real problem Apple not allowing side-loading?

There is no justifiable reason why iPhones can't side-load like the MacOS

 

[now i see it]

My dreams were destroyed before the App Store even existed

 

[SFjohn]

Telegram's CEO has accused Apple of destroying his dreams to become a billionaire and ruining his entrepreneurship to be worth more than Elon Musk… Poor, poor entrepreneur that he is. 😂

 

[falainber]

K, you build your own smartphone platform, hardware, infrastructure, and accessories. THEN tell us HOW 30% is unfair.

Do you really want to buy separate phone for every app?

 

[Zest28]

Telegram should stop crying. Every store makes money.

Does Telegram think WallMart or BestBuy doesn't earn any money from the stuff they sell in the store?

 

[Zest28]

Isn't the real problem Apple not allowing side-loading?

There is no justifiable reason why iPhones can't side-load like the MacOS

Security. iOS and iPadOS is much more secure than Windows and MacOS.

And also ensuring quality standards.

 

[strongy]

Because Apple sells eBooks in their own app.

because Amazon choose not to sell eBooks in their own app

 

[strongy]

Android?

it came out on iOS first

 

[hans1972]

Telegram is wildly popular on Android and on the desktop. They'd still exist without Apple's userbase.

That's great. They should drop support for Apple's platforms.

 

[strongy]

Congress disagrees with you. That's exactly what anti-trust is, and the government will soon intervene to make that clear to you and everyone else who don't understand the antitrust laws in this country.

As a result, Apple’s control over iOS provides it with gatekeeper power over software distribution on iOS devices. Consequently, it has a dominant position in the mobile app store market and monopoly power over distribution of software applications on iOS devices.
...
Apple’s monopoly power over software distribution on iOS devices appears to allow it to generate supranormal profits from the App Store and its Services business.
...
Apple’s position as the provider of iOS enables it to designate the App Store as the sole means for app developers to distribute software to iPhone users. Apple’s public statements, including testimony by Mr. Cook that Apple’s apps “go through the same rules” as more than 1.7 million third-party apps appear to be inconsistent with Apple’s actual practices. In this case, Apple leveraged its control of iOS and the App Store to give its own apps preferential treatment, and applied a different set of rules than third-party apps, punishing them for the very conduct Apple engaged in.

Source: https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/competition_in_digital_markets.pdf

you might want to check in with that judge that ruled "Apple doesn’t have monopoly power because customers can choose Android phones instead." in the epic games case which kind of sends your argument down the drain.

 

[strongy]

The government has to prove its case, then that case will be tested in court.

judge in the epic games case ruled that "Apple doesn’t have monopoly power because customers can choose Android phones instead."

 

[hans1972]

Except Apple forbids developers from selling software to their iOS users outside of Apple's store.


Why should Apple profit from other people's efforts?

Because those developers are using intellectual property (Apple's effort), Apple's store (Apple's effort) and gaining access to Apple's customer base (Apple's effort).

It's nothing wrong profiting from other people efforts.

I was recently in Athens and the guide we used on the Acropolis was profiting from ancient Athenians building it almost 2500 years ago, possible even profiting from slave work!

 

[Zest28]

Apple is just an evil company. They say they do not allow third party app stores, because they want to "protect" their customers, but in fact Apple just wants to monetize its monopoly as much as possible.

If I had already paid $999 or more just for a smartphone, I would be quite angry if additionally 30% of all my in-app payments go to Apple. It is MY phone. I hope the EU will stop that.

Imagine a car manufacturer sells taxis and requests 30% of all money that the taxi drivers makes with that taxi.

If you go to a Gucci store, you think Prada can open a Prada store within their Gucci store? Or Tesla opening a Tesla store within the Gucci store?

I don't think so.

 

[quietstormSD]

Dang, I'm surprised he didn't throw in "killing puppies" in there too.

 

[Coochie Boogs]

The developers of some these companies along with their brass, are nuts. Always with the doom scenarios, it’s laughable. Feel free to build your own smartphone put whatever you want on it and sell it. I promise that no one is standing in your way.

 

[Zest28]

The developers of some these companies along with their brass, are nuts. Always with the doom scenarios, it’s laughable. Feel free to build your own smartphone put whatever you want on it and sell it. I promise that no one is standing in your way.

They are a joke. There are apps that opened their own app store, and they kept the 30% for themselves, not giving it back to the customers.

So I don't know why people here try to defend those developers. They are entitled and greedy trying to setup a store in someone else their store and keep all the money for themselves that they are supposed to pay to Apple.

 

[Sikh]

This is utter codswallop because when it comes to mobile messaging, iMessage, in all its unencrypted glory, is the underdog to WhatsApp, which has a massive share of the market. I don't know a soul who doesn't use it. The same can be said for Final Cut Pro's abilities vs Adobe Premier, (at least, professionally), or iWork vs Office 365 (or even Google's offering which is used far more extensively in the real world). These Apple apps I mention have some truly wonderful attributes such as Keynote's animation and image processing, however, Apple has shot itself in the foot when trying to keep everything within their gated ecosystem.

disclaimer: commenting specifically against the imessage encryption claim and nothing else

What are you going on about? iMessage has always been end-to-end encrypted AND stored on your devices only.

From apple's website (source: https://www.apple.com/privacy/features/)

End-to-end encryption​

End-to-end encryption protects your iMessage and FaceTime conversations across all your devices. With watchOS, iOS, and iPadOS, your messages are encrypted on your device so they can’t be accessed without your passcode. iMessage and FaceTime are designed so that there’s no way for Apple to read your messages when they’re in transit between devices. You can choose to automatically delete your messages from your device after 30 days or a year or keep them on your device indefinitely.

Before you point out iCloud Backups, they also dont have access to your iMessage data. If you think they do, just turn off iCloud Backups and backup to your computer.(source: https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/messages/)

• Messages are backed up in iCloud and encrypted if you enable iCloud Backup or Messages in iCloud.
• iMessage is end-to-end encrypted. The phone number or email address you use is shown to the people you contact, and you can choose to share your name and photo.
• Apple retains limited information about the use of iMessage, such as whether your device is eligible to use iMessage, for up to 30 days.

As far as your whatsapp comment goes, it has a wide share of the market because it was built to be an easy to use, fully customizable messaging app for the majority of consumers. There is no privacy behind whatsapp at all and if you think there is, you are delusional. Also before you even say anything about whatsapp, its owned by facebook. If there ever was any privacy behind whatsapp, it was long gone by the time facebook took over.

I definitely understand the use case for it, plenty of my friends and my own family uses it to communicate with people because there is no platform in the way. The app is how you communicate and it doesnt matter what device. But I have never and will never use a messaging app that has no privacy, especially one backed by Facebook. They have also had their fair share of privacy blunders and here's(https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/is-now-the-time-to-dump-whatsapp/) a quick one I found through google. I ignore whatsapp like the plague so I see stuff pop up cause im in tech and follow tech news and read about it, laugh and move on.

 

[Zest28]

This is not an Apple platform. This is a Telegram platform. Telegram works across the Apple and Android mobile platforms. Apple gets paid by those Telegram users who buy Apple phones in order to use Telegram; not the other way around. These same users can buy Android phones instead to use Telegram.

That is complete BS.

So FaceBook / Meta, is now pouring billions of dollars into the Metaverse. It is a huge risk they are taking as not many people believe in the Metaverse right now.

If Mark succeeds and the Metaverse becomes really big, you will have to pay Mark money for every purchase you make in his metaverse.

Do you honestly think Mark is going to make only money of the VR headset he sells? Get real.

Telegram has to pay Mark too in the Metaverse.

And really, don't feel sorry for these developers. They are businesses like Apple themselves who want to maximize their profits. You will see nothing from the 30% commission that is removed besides higher bonuses of the CEO of Telegram (besides Apple having less resources to improve the platform).

 

[bwillwall]

I refuse to read past the like 4th comment because my daily dislike limit was already reached. ROFL

 

[doanchu]

I do not have a strong opinion about the topic of payment methods, but I do know that the Telegram iOS and Mac apps—which I use heavily on a daily basis—are buggy, incomplete, and have pretty mediocre (and in some ways primitive) UX. These problems have nothing to do with Apple's restrictions.

If Telegram actually released good software, then it might start lending more credence to their arguments. Releasing slipshod products and then complaining about how bad you have it undermines your credibility on all fronts (and yes, this also goes for Apple).

What are the bugs?

 

[MacMan988]

Trillion dollar companies carve out exceptions for each other.

This is somewhat true.

Most of Apple's recent restrictions seems impressive to end users.
But, IMHO, they mostly affect small companies rather than big tech giants, allowing those big tech giants to build up their dominance in the industry stronger than ever before.
An example would be those privacy related stuff, which will make it difficult with small tech stacks to gather data and optimize their products, while leaving large internet companies capable of mass scale profile building to dominate the market.

 

[BC2009]

Isn’t it crazy how many of these companies have come into existence because of how Apple democratized software development and deployment over its platform for a fee of 30%? Now the same companies expect to get all that Apple provides for free.

Before iBooks existed, Amazon was charging independent authors, like 80% commission. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft were charging way more than 30% to release a game for their consoles, though I forget what the number was. Apples 30% commission was a bargain when it first was introduced.