Telegram CEO Accuses Apple of Destroying Dreams and Crushing Entrepreneurs

[djgamble]

K, you build your own smartphone platform, hardware, infrastructure, and accessories. THEN tell us HOW 30% is unfair.

Right so only large, listed companies are allowed to comment on their own fees... not smaller companies that are producing apps for their platform.

I get the fanboyism but don't shoot the messenger. He's just sharing his own personal story about using Apple's ecosystem.

Maybe you should build an app that brings in more than $1m and have a company that's paying 30% of its iPhone-based profits to Apple before commenting?

 

[spazzcat]

Congress disagrees with you. That's exactly what anti-trust is, and the government will soon intervene to make that clear to you and everyone else who don't understand the antitrust laws in this country.

As a result, Apple’s control over iOS provides it with gatekeeper power over software distribution on iOS devices. Consequently, it has a dominant position in the mobile app store market and monopoly power over distribution of software applications on iOS devices.
...
Apple’s monopoly power over software distribution on iOS devices appears to allow it to generate supranormal profits from the App Store and its Services business.
...
Apple’s position as the provider of iOS enables it to designate the App Store as the sole means for app developers to distribute software to iPhone users. Apple’s public statements, including testimony by Mr. Cook that Apple’s apps “go through the same rules” as more than 1.7 million third-party apps appear to be inconsistent with Apple’s actual practices. In this case, Apple leveraged its control of iOS and the App Store to give its own apps preferential treatment, and applied a different set of rules than third-party apps, punishing them for the very conduct Apple engaged in.

Source: https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/competition_in_digital_markets.pdf

The government has to prove its case, then that case will be tested in court.

 

[firewood]

So telecoms are entitled to 30% of Apple's sales right? if they don't like it, Apple can build their own hardware and infrastructure!

There were likely some telecom executives who thought that way. They were likely shown the door, as it turned out to be far more far profitable for the telecoms to pay Apple for iPhones (to "give away" as new customer sign-up bonuses).

Same with developers. They make more money paying Apple 30% than trying to get users to switch consumption devices.

 

[Kevin2055]

Oh, come on.

 

[geartau]

Right so only large, listed companies are allowed to comment on their own fees... not smaller companies that are producing apps for their platform.

I get the fanboyism but don't shoot the messenger. He's just sharing his own personal story about using Apple's ecosystem.

Maybe you should build an app that brings in more than $1m and have a company that's paying 30% of its iPhone-based profits to Apple before commenting?

30% has been the industry standard well before the App Store existed.

30% is also still what Nintendo/Microsoft/Sony are charging developers (even if developers are selling their games via brick and mortar).

There is nothing stopping Telegram from raising their prices by 30% and telling customers "this is because Apple wants a cut so we have to pass the cost onto you". Not much different than people listing their products on Amazon where a portion of the price is paying Amazon.

 

[Martinpa]

Ridiculous comment.

Telegram are not a hardware company and Apple's charging is excessive and disproportionate. Which is why the EU and other regulators will change how Apple operate for the benefit of the consumers & developers alike. It's just going to take some time.

There's something wrong with people championing Apple's greed and profiteering.

I’m just curious what you’re basing the “excessive” and “disproportionate” assessment on? As far as I know, when you buy something in a physical store, the company making the product makes closer to 30%, instead of the 70% a developper takes on the App Store. A book author receives maybe 10% of the price of a sold physical book. I see many people say that 30% going to Apple is too high, but no one ever justifies why. I could be convinced, but I’d need arguments. Just saying it is doesn’t make it so. And 30% seems pretty standard across multiple industries. Is it okay for Sony to do it for PlayStation games? Or Nintendo on the eShop?

 

[duervo]

“Destroying dreams and crushing entrepreneurs…” … just a wee bit melodramatic, IMO.

I do find it interesting that nothing is stated about how much of a cut Telegram is taking from their content creators using those 3rd-party payment options.

Anyway, I don’t have any expectations of either Telegram or Apple, beyond anything dealing with their ultimate goals of making money. Keeping that specific item in mind, people should be viewing these types of statements from companies with a huge dose of scepticism.

 

[ILoveCalvinCool]

I miss the times of Steve Jobs and Larry Page when the good tech companies were fighting Microsoft and not being total jackasses to other smaller ones.

Yeah, I remember back in the 80s and 90s when Apple fans were on the opposite side of this argument.

 

[schlitzz]

Right so only large, listed companies are allowed to comment on their own fees... not smaller companies that are producing apps for their platform.

I get the fanboyism but don't shoot the messenger. He's just sharing his own personal story about using Apple's ecosystem.

Maybe you should build an app that brings in more than $1m and have a company that's paying 30% of its iPhone-based profits to Apple before commenting?

He didn’t build the app. You could build that app, but you’re too busy complaining about me. If you don’t like the contract, don’t sign it. Challenge still stands.

 

[robfoll]

K, you build your own smartphone platform, hardware, infrastructure, and accessories. THEN tell us HOW 30% is unfair.

Absolutely, I used to be an app dev and always thought 30% was fair for giving me a global platform, customer base and distribution channel, not to mention handling the finances across every market and currency. I still do.

 

[Arran]

“Destroying dreams and crushing entrepreneurs…” … just a wee bit melodramatic, IMO.

I know, right. Comedy gold.

They’re entrepreneur-ing all wrong if they abandon a few lightly crushed but profitable dreams.

And if they’re not profitable then their costs are too high. That’s on them to fix, entrepreneurs that they are.

 

[schlitzz]

Absolutely, I used to be an app dev and always thought 30% was fair for giving me a global platform, customer base and distribution channel, not to mention handling the finances across every market and currency. I still do.

I did commercial/residential real estate management. You expense it and move on.

 

[dogface1956]

It really amazes me how many developers are willing to write apps with that much of a cut.

A smart business person would/does factor in cost of Apple's cut, in the pricing of their product. Just like a bricks and mortar has to factor in rent, wages, utilities, etc.

 

[dogface1956]

This is not a fair comparison. Stores must predict how much of an item they will sell, then purchase all of it upfront. Lot's of $$ out of pocket. Items that don't sell go on "sale" and more money is lost.

Apple has the luxury of not having to pay for the goods until they are sold. Can't imagine any retail store receiving all of their merchandise for free, then able to pay as they are sold!

Actually most stores have a credit line with their suppliers usually Net 30 with some kind of stock rebalancing budget, usually a percentage of their purchases for the last x amount of days. If you manage your inventory and turn your inventory over, you can have little of our own money tied up with your inventory. It's when you don't manage your inventory that you get into trouble.

 

[BootsWalking]

iOS devices are not a ubiquitous thing. Apple invented, owns, and controls them too.

Not ubiquitous? Apple has a 55% market share of smartphones in the USA. Apple operates in the USA, and as such is subject to USA antitrust laws.

 

[rovex]

The Apple / Google stranglehold on tech. Is that what the regulators dreamed of ?

 

[rovex]

I really wish Apple would stop censoring apps. If you use Telegram you'll find that certain groups won't load on iOS due to Apple's arbitrary censorship.
Kind of odd how the Twitter iOS app is allowed to show you porn, but Telegram can't keep you up to date with local politics.

Is that true ?

I thought telegram would be censoring what gets shown on its own app.

 

[russell_314]

Is that true ?

I thought telegram would be censoring what gets shown on its own app.

Censorship is a whole other can of worms. People praise it when it’s censoring content they don’t like, but they lose their minds when it’s content they approve of. I think at some point we need to realize we’re all adults and we can handle bad words and bad things. As long as it’s not planning violence against someone or committing a crime.

I’m talking about censorship at a global level by governments or companies like Apple and Google, not at a lower level such as by mods here, weeding out content that is irrelevant or bad

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

I don’t trust Telegram in the slightest, if someone asked me to pay them through Telegram I would ask for an alternative payment or take my payment elsewhere

This is the worst guy we have on our side right now, even Epic Games was better.

I want Apple to relax the rules on in app payments, but this guy is such a disingenuous obnoxious loser I can’t feel any sympathy for him even if he’s advocating for something I want

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

Is that true ?

I thought telegram would be censoring what gets shown on its own app.

This was somewhat true before, basically iOS was barred from accessing NSFW channels unless you toggled an option in the web app (this is how Reddit does it) while Android could access them.

However, at some point Telegram just decided to ban all pornographic content off their platform (probably because they have ads now)
Pornography is literally one of the options you can pick when you report a message.

This only affects channels and groups of course, one on one conversations don’t even have a report message feature - you can send pretty much whatever you want.

 

[rovex]

Censorship is a whole other can of worms. People praise it when it’s censoring content they don’t like, but they lose their minds when it’s content they approve of. I think at some point we need to realize we’re all adults and we can handle bad words and bad things. As long as it’s not planning violence against someone or committing a crime.

I’m talking about censorship at a global level by governments or companies like Apple and Google, not at a lower level such as by mods here, weeding out content that is irrelevant or bad

I gave up on platforms which started censuring left and right. People want a stage to express their opinions while banishing the opinions of others. Twitter became a cesspit of human existence.

 

[pauloregan]

He has a point and anyone backing Apple is happily restricting app innovation on their devices.

 

[HiRez]

It's kind of whining, but 30% is pretty onerous. Something like 5%/10%/15% (or even 10%/20%) tiers would go a long way towards silencing critics at all levels and would make it less likely developers would feel the need to go outside the App Store for payments.

 

[ender78]

Ridiculous comment.

Telegram are not a hardware company and Apple's charging is excessive and disproportionate. Which is why the EU and other regulators will change how Apple operate for the benefit of the consumers & developers alike. It's just going to take some time.

There's something wrong with people championing Apple's greed and profiteering.

So capitalism is wrong ? Who gets to decide what kind of profit one company can make ? No one has demonstrated
or promised that if Apple gets a smaller cut, all the savings will be passed onto the consumer.

Developers signed onto the platform knowing the business model and costs. Why do they get to re-write the rules now?

 

[ender78]

It really amazes me how many developers are willing to write apps with that much of a cut.

Because the Apple customer base is a gigantic treasure trove of users willing to pay for stuff. Ask App Developers where they make most of their money. Apple holds a tiny share of the worldwide market but that minority stake still drives a ton of revenue. A 30% commission is a lot less than retailers used to take for software.