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I have come to the conclusion that self-driving technology will only appear in all-electric cars because they need the proverbial killer app to sell them. Not nearly enough people want to buy them as is because a gas-powered vehicle is so much more utilitarian. That said, self-driving in a vehicle that can run 24 hours a day with only a few minutes refueling time is one reason I would want a self-driving car. Imagine being able to drive across the country solo in a day and a half without having to stop to sleep.

The killer app is replacing Uber/Lyft/Taxi services as an alternative transportation method in the US. Until batteries get the point where the range/recharging time is similar to a regular car, the regular consumer market will be limited. And it's fragmented. People use their cars for so many different purposes, that's it would be difficult for Apple to meet them all.

But a fleet of automonous battery operated vehicles that could serve as alternate transportation within a city would be huge. Sort of like Uber without the potential creepy driver factor. Fleets could run 24/7 (which would make them worth the cost) and be a steady source of revenue.
 
You realize Tesla S is rated as the safest passenger sedan and was a newbie car manufacturer?

While this is formally true in terms of official safety tests and the fact that no engine means a huge front crumple zone, I think we are yet to see the true safety of systems like Autopilot. Toyota for one claim that there is no sensor array available at a cost effective price point that can make automatic lane changing safe. I tend to agree... the sensor tech in the Tesla Model S is pretty basic and is nothing more than a basic evolution of tech that Toyota had in the Lexus LS460 when it launched 10 years ago. Tesla uses off the shelf sensor arrays just like the rest of the automotive sector.
 
You realize Tesla S is rated as the safest passenger sedan and was a newbie car manufacturer?

They had done the Roadster before that, so they weren't a complete newbie... admittedly, everything safety related was probably handled by Lotus, not Tesla.
 
Tesla won't even be finished building their pre-orders until 2020 ...
 
"I think it's great they're doing this, and I hope it works out," said Musk. "It's just a missed opportunity. It's a couple years... they'll make a good car and be successful."

Heh... An odd sequence of thoughts. Appears he caught himself with the "It's just a missed opportunity. It's a couple years..." and needed to quickly correct serving up some lukewarm props.

Even Musk knows it's not to Tesla's benefit getting Apple's automotive development engineers riled up and even more motivated from his backhanded remark.

And you should know that Tesla also has former Apple engineers in their ranks. Since they poached each other's workers, no one wins.

Riled up? Please. The only thing that would kill this project is Cook's incompetence.
 
Fiery young upstart sees the need to rag on the incumbents to generate buzz for their own company. Apple was like that once. How fast Apple has grown and quickly the times have changed.
Calling Apple an incumbent in the car industry is somewhat weird
 
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I think Apple's car will have a quite low revving engine.

I'd predict a red-line of 5,400rpm as that seems to be a rotational speed Apple don't wish to pass in general ;)

The reason it's so hush-hush is that it's a solid state engine. In fact it will be so revolutionary; the fact that the engine isn't revolutionary, no moving parts. And that's what makes the engine so hush-hush.
 
It's a big market. Even if tesla will have sold 1 million cars at that point, that's a fraction of the addressable market. There's plenty of time for Apple to come in and do it right.

But it won't sell in India, where the market demands a sub-500-dollar cheap-as-cardboard car.

Clearly this spells Apple's certain doom in the Indian automotive market.
 
People who think apple shouldn't buy a car have absolutely no vision. With electrification and self-driving, the important part of the car isn't the engine anymore, it is the connectivity and user interface, places where Apple has clear leadership.

I look forward to the Apple car challenging Tesla; it is going to need competition as the traditional car companies start dying off (just like traditional cellphone manufacturers did).

After the car, I imagine the next step will be for Apple to develop housing. Imagine an apple-branded apartment.
 
Teslas are huge, meeting the expectations of Western thinking of bigger is better. I would imagine that Apple's market is intended to meet a world need, particularly so as Apple is a Chinese manufacturer. The vehicle could emerge as a hatchback, the most efficient design for maximizing interior and carry space, while minimizing its overall footprint. It will be manufactured from largely recyclable materials. It could be optimized for urban environments as all electric with multiple charging formats and swappable battery packs to address fleet needs and long-distance driving. A multi-fuel hybrid could emerge too as a solution for more rural settings perhaps with all-wheel-drive. Expect exceptional IOS connectivity; you will exist completely within it. Apple won't compete, it will simply create its own market based on its eco-marketing of a new world standard.
 
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I look forward to Apple making a dent in the car industry. I hope the software will be the trump card by the time it's released. Don't really mind Apple trying new, especially when iPhone, iPads, and Macs are starting to be saturated.
 
Steve Ballmer? Is that you? ... oh, it's just eLawn Musty.

These CEOs should really worry more over their own efforts than propagandize what others might be doing or are doing. Microsoft's laughed at the iPhone and laughed themselves into complacency. Now eLawn is scoffing at Apple's efforts, probably indicating his own problems or lethargy in a market he believed he owned lock-stock-n-barrel.

Microsoft didn't have an iPhone competitor when he laughed at the iPhone. Tesla has been selling the same type of car Apple wants to come out with for years, and it's a fantastic car. That's the difference.

And really, how immature do you have to be to write "eLawn Musty"?
 
Musk always feels the need to mention Apple at every interview...
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Musk mentioned Apple or Mossberg and juvenile Swisher did?
 
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Geeze, the level of fanboyism (both sides) is ridiculous here.

I don't think Musk was intending to be antagonistic, but stating something he believes to be obvious about the car industry.

you cannot just decide to make a car and be up and running quickly. The process of making a car, and getting it to market is a long, and arduous process. Even the established car companies take several years to get new models and large changes to models out their doors.

Car companies, to release a car, need to go through lengthy design processes. Drawing, Drafting, then modelling. Testing the models extensively for everything from "look" to aerodynamics. Designing power and weight distributions, balance issues, etc etc.

Lets say then you've got that all settled, you've decided on your design, and power. You have the entire industry regulatory bodies to have to pass. Crash tests. Performance tests, measurements that meet very specific requirements in dozens if not hundreds of jurisdictions, that range anywhere from required positions of lights and markers to how high a bumper can be.

it then needs to actually be built, at which point you need to either find commodity part manufacturers, source the orders, put together the factories to build it, or create the fabrication plants to make your own parts.

once you've got all this, Then you can start limited road tests and track tests (yes, all cars are regularly and extensively track tested). this process takes a while as well.

once thats done, then you can consider selling your car. And if you're talking about a new car company, like Apple, you have to start from the ground up. Dealerships/stores. Distribution networks and regulatory bodies that control the sales and distributions of automotive products, which, again are far more stringent than selling phones.

Can apple do it? Sure. Should they do? Why the heck not. Can they do it overnight? no.

I think the biggest question though is how will Apple position themselves in a market that is older than probably anyone who works at apple has been alive? Will they attempt to force their way in with 40% profit margins, and be a "bully", or will they capitulate that they cannot control the automotive markets pricing structures and play ball?
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How is Apple keeping Titan secret?! The employees must be going out, meeting friends, having beers after work. How do they describe what they do when asked? 'I work at Apple on special projects'?

Even if they never breath a word to others, even as a group they must be conspicuous in the neighbourhood coffee shops etc.

Or are they not allowed to leave the Titan compound ?

pretty much the first:

I have a buddy who works at Microsoft in a similar department

and yes, he answers the question with similar, "Yes, I work at Microsoft, and no, I can't tell you what we're working on"... and you know, thats ok. I Think most of us understand that contract obligations exist and don't push further if we can avoid it.
 
Nobody in their right mind would buy a pure Apple car as soon as 2020. I could see them doing OK after a few iterations with refinement but a car needs to be safe, first and foremost, and after that then yes tech will become more important.

I wouldn't trust any complete newbie car manufacturer, it's a hard industry.

I agree. Getting into the car business within just a few years doesn't seem easy as there is plenty of regulation, manufacturing ramp-up etc. 4 years seems pretty tight considering they are still in the early phases of design.
 
Musk isn't dumb. He knows what's up, they trade employees.

Tesla and Apple will address different markets in the automotive space.
 
I agree with Musk that this is a missed opportunity. Being first is key in marketing. Tesla is already what comes to mind when people think about electric cars, just as iPhone was the first easy to use smartphone.

First is good, yes. But Apple has the marketing might to overcome that. In fact, they've rarely been first in anything. They've just refined existing concepts and packaged them well.
 
Just like I wouldn’t necessarily like an Armani computer just because he makes great/premium clothes. Mercedes washing machine? Probably not. Gordon Ramsey Power drill? Pass.
Mindsets like this mean it probably won’t be as popular as you think.
The great thing about brands is public perception can change with enough paid promotion.

The fashion industry has a motto concerning the introduction of new styles that goes, "You hated it, you laughed at it, you bought it."
 
The $7500 federal EV tax credit applies to the first 200,000 vehicles, so there would be incentive to buy early. By 2020, Tesla will be out of credits.
Or out of business. The Model 3 may be their undoing if the financing dries up -- the same has happened to many auto startups over the years.
 
In fact, they've rarely been first in anything. They've just refined existing concepts and packaged them well.
Oh so true! We now have a generation that doesn't even know the founders of the smartphone business such as GEOS, RIM and Blackberry. In the 80's, the first PC generation grew up not knowing car brands like Studebaker, Hudson and DeSoto to the chagrin of their parents. The beat goes on.
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Or out of business. The Model 3 may be their undoing if the financing dries up -- the same has happened to many auto startups over the years.
Tesla is in the phase of going from novelty to breakthrough with fiscal institutions of the world in a position to allow this to happen or not.

While we take desktop PCs for granted now, the politics involved and the turn over in the Federal Reserve under the Reagan administration was a key factor allowing this market to grow. Many foreign countries were in the middle of implementing a "domestic computing tax" on any computer that operated outside a business. In the USA, it was considered Unconstitutional but other countries, some home PCs had a tax stamp for a few years before it was discontinued due to heavy diplomatic pressure.

In a totally free market, Elon and company would have no problem. However, there is so much old money at risk here shifting the energy market, I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla is a subject at the Federal Reserve level.
 
I think Musk is not seeing the big pictures of apple car. Gonna share my humble opinion.

I don't think Apple wants to do cars like Tesla. Not for now, I mean. Apple will do little cars, like google cars, little autonomous "pods" that can drive you around town. A little urban taxi, right? But you need an "Uber" like app to control it, right? Apple bought one.

So, What Apple is going to do? Fill the streets with little apple cars that you request one to take you from one place to another. Public (paid) transportation. You can unlock the car with your phone or watch, and pay it via apple pay.

Hey, you don't need a car... you need to get from point A to point B. (Today the taxi driver's fight over uber driver's... and both will fight over apple cars...

But, there are some folks that "WANT" a car. Ok, you can buy yours. Connect to the network, and let it drive for you.

What do you think, guys?
 
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