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That makes no sense, given that the Tesla mutes other audio sources when the nav voice is speaking.
Wrong. It doesn't mute it. It "ducks" it and it's annoying when I want to listen to the audio book without any interruptions. I lower the nav voice so I can still hear the audio book even when it's "ducked" and Nav is talking.
 
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No. Your suggestion was to implement a floating window. If you’ve watched the CarPlay integration guide, Apple requires the volume knobs to take precedent in controlling CarPlay audio.

If it’s a floating window, a user may have a Tesla navigation running giving voice directions when they plug in their phone to turn on CarPlay. Since volume controls are now mapped to CarPlay, how does the user turn down Tesla’s navigation volume?

Currently, over bluetooth, Tesla maps the volume to control bluetooth audio UNLESS the Navigation voice is currently saying something. At that point the user can scroll the wheel to turn down the voice. With CarPlay, Tesla won’t have that option since CarPlay takes over the volume control wheel on the steering wheel.

Plus there’s a bunch of small requirements that CarPlay wants like a dedicated Siri hard button.

And finally, managing a floating window probably isn’t a good idea for the driver who needs quick access to Tesla controls like the AC.

Very easy to suggest “oh it’s simple to implement!” when you didn’t look through the documentation.

Well I can tell you how a simple Peugeot 208 manages to handle all that perfectly easily - don't make escuses for Tesla. Elon doesn't want to do it because he doesn't like Apple. He said he had his own mirroring option and like most of the crap he comes out with, it never materialised either.

The floating window would work just like any part of the music system currently does, just swipe it down when you don't want it - it never covers up the AC controls. You can still adjust the volume on the Sat Nav in the 208 as well, no problems. It's not something you'd ever need to change more than once, hell I don't think i've had a sat nav voice "on" for about 10 years now either, they drive you mad.

I really wish I could turn the voice button my steering wheel into a Siri button, the built in voice commands literally don't work on my Model S, it never heard me, absolutely useless.
 
The user has to manually navigate to settings via 3-4 taps and a swipe to change Nav volume.

While driving.

And you don’t see a problem?

I mean I currently have to use my phone to control all the media I want to listen to.

While driving.

And you don't see a problem?
 
Wrong. It doesn't mute it. It "ducks" it and it's annoying when I want to listen to the audio book without any interruptions. I lower the nav voice so I can still hear the audio book even when it's "ducked" and Nav is talking.
I don't know what you mean by "ducks", but my car turns down the main volume when the nav voice comes on or when I make a phone call. But anyway, if you are so hell-bent on constantly fiddling with the nav volume, Tesla can simply do the exact same thing they are doing now with BT or inbuilt apps with Carplay: assign the scrollwheel to the nav volume while the nav voice is speaking, and to the Carplay volume otherwise. Trivial. You're creating problems where there aren't any.
 
Well I can tell you how a simple Peugeot 208 manages to handle all that perfectly easily - don't make escuses for Tesla. Elon doesn't want to do it because he doesn't like Apple. He said he had his own mirroring option and like most of the crap he comes out with, it never materialised either.

The floating window would work just like any part of the music system currently does, just swipe it down when you don't want it - it never covers up the AC controls. You can still adjust the volume on the Sat Nav in the 208 as well, no problems. It's not something you'd ever need to change more than once, hell I don't think i've had a sat nav voice "on" for about 10 years now either, they drive you mad.

I really wish I could turn the voice button my steering wheel into a Siri button, the built in voice commands literally don't work on my Model S, it never heard me, absolutely useless.
I’m looking at videos of Peugeot 208’s carplay, it looks like CarPlay takes over the entire screen. What are you talking about?

I’m not arguing against CarPlay in general. I’m against your idea of having a floating window which both systems can be fighting over audio simultaneously. This is extra work that a driver should not be managing while driving. Even Apple recommends CarPlay taking the full screen because a user shouldn’t need to manage multiple systems.

If Tesla Nav is giving directions while music is playing from CarPlay, your steering wheel volume control cannot adjust Tesla Nav volume as it’s required that controls such as volume and voice assistant gets piped to CarPlay first. This is just one of many bad UX a user will encounter.
 
I mean I currently have to use my phone to control all the media I want to listen to.

While driving.

And you don't see a problem?

Hands on phone? I do see a problem. That's why lawmakers made it ILLEGAL to do that in many states. This is also why Apple made Do Not Disturb While Driving mode and encourages the use of hands free Siri. I can't believe I have to say this. Please stop hand using your phone to control your media while driving as you are putting yourself and other people in danger.

Tesla's most common controls are 1-2 taps away. Anything more than that is dangerous to do while driving.
 
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I don't know what you mean by "ducks",

Ducking is an audio engineering term (often used by DJs to talk over music, or in this case, voice navigation): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducking

but my car turns down the main volume when the nav voice comes on

Yes. That's not muting. That's ducking.

But anyway, if you are so hell-bent on constantly fiddling with the nav volume, Tesla can simply do the exact same thing they are doing now with BT or inbuilt apps with Carplay: assign the scrollwheel to the nav volume while the nav voice is speaking,

No. Read the CarPlay integration guide. CarPlay requires taking precedent in volume controls. This is the exact reason why I said it's not easy. CarPlay has many requirements before Apple can approve and issue a MFi license to Tesla to allow CarPlay in their cars. This volume example is just one of many potential issues of having a "floating window" CarPlay.

It makes more sense to just suspend all Tesla functions and have CarPlay take up the entire screen if you want to use it which is what Apple recommends doing when integrating the software.
 
No. Read the CarPlay integration guide. CarPlay requires taking precedent in volume controls.
I doubt very much that Apple can tell carmakers what to do with their steering wheel buttons. The "official" Tesla volume control is the screen control anyway.

It makes more sense to just suspend all Tesla functions and have CarPlay take up the entire screen if you want to use it which is what Apple recommends doing when integrating the software.
I don't think that makes any sense at all in a vehicle that is almost exclusively controlled through the screen.
 
I doubt very much that Apple can tell carmakers what to do with their steering wheel buttons. The "official" Tesla volume control is the screen control anyway.

I don't think that makes any sense at all in a vehicle that is almost exclusively controlled through the screen.

It's very apparent that you didn't even bother to do a little bit of reading before suggesting it. CarPlay requires a certification process that goes through Apple before Tesla can release it to the masses. It's part of the MFi program. So if Tesla doesn't do what CarPlay asks, Apple will simply say "no" and deny the MFi license.
 
It's very apparent that you didn't even bother to do a little bit of reading before suggesting it. CarPlay requires a certification process that goes through Apple before Tesla can release it to the masses. It's part of the MFi program. So if Tesla doesn't do what CarPlay asks, Apple will simply say "no" and deny the MFi license.
Maybe I missed it, did you post a link to the CarPlay certification documentation.
It seems like if Tesla can get Apple to agree to Apple Music in the car, they probably could also get the full CarPlay suite.
 
Maybe I missed it, did you post a link to the CarPlay certification documentation.
It seems like if Tesla can get Apple to agree to Apple Music in the car, they probably could also get the full CarPlay suite.

It's not hard to Google this information. Search "carplay apple developer". Click the first link. Read on the bottom where it says "If you are interested in a CarPlay system, learn more about the MFi Program". Click the link and read about MFi. Just a little bit of reading goes a long way.

Apple's MusicKit JS allows any website to play Apple music inside a javascript app. This has existed since 2018. No MFi program needed, but a developer membership is needed https://developer.apple.com/documentation/musickitjs/ which anyone can apply for. The implementation itself does not need to be certified by Apple. Entirely possible Tesla is wrapping this web app into something the dashboard can use.
 
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It's not hard to Google this information. Search "carplay apple developer". Click the first link. Read on the bottom where it says "If you are interested in a CarPlay system, learn more about the MFi Program". Click the link and read about MFi. Just a little bit of reading goes a long way.

Apple's MusicKit JS allows any website to play Apple music inside a javascript app. This has existed since 2018. No MFi program needed, but a developer membership is needed https://developer.apple.com/documentation/musickitjs/ which anyone can apply for. The implementation itself does not need to be certified by Apple. Entirely possible Tesla is wrapping this web app into something the dashboard can use.
Thanks.
We can’t even get Tesla to make a proper watch app or widget, so I guess we shouldn’t hold our breath about CarPlay.
 
Carplay is pedestrian compared to Tesla, they've got about a 10+ year jump on Tim Apple and the Buggies.
 
It's not hard to Google this information. Search "carplay apple developer". Click the first link. Read on the bottom where it says "If you are interested in a CarPlay system, learn more about the MFi Program". Click the link and read about MFi. Just a little bit of reading goes a long way.
I am very familiar with the Apple Developer pages, but to my knowledge the MFi documentation is not openly available. Or can you link (or at least name) the specific web page or document that supports your claims about the volume control restrictions required by Apple?
 
I am very familiar with the Apple Developer pages, but to my knowledge the MFi documentation is not openly available. Or can you link (or at least name) the specific web page or document that supports your claims about the volume control restrictions required by Apple?
7:50 in https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/723/

additional requirements like a hard siri button discussed here: 23:00 in https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2016/722/

these links were all found from the same page i just mentioned in my reply (first result on google after searching the mentioned terms). seems like you still are refusing to look at anything. it’s very frustrating and ridiculous.
 
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OK. I've watched that and the presenter doesn't say anything about Carplay "taking precedent in volume controls". If anything, the philosophy she describes (the volume control always applies to the audio source that's currently playing) endorses what Tesla is currently doing and could do with Carplay as well.
these links were all found from the same page i just mentioned in my reply (first result on google after searching the mentioned terms). seems like you still are refusing to look at anything. it’s very frustrating and ridiculous.
You told me above to "read the Carplay integration guide", not watch WWDC videos that don't really say what you claim.
 
OK. I've watched that and the presenter doesn't say anything about Carplay "taking precedent in volume controls". If anything, the philosophy she describes (the volume control always applies to the audio source that's currently playing) endorses what Tesla is currently doing and could do with Carplay as well.

That section describes exactly what happens when the volume knob is moved during CarPlay if you're integrating the system. I don't get why you can't seem to understand this. All first party CarPlay implementations implemented this way because it's required. Apple isn't going to start every slide saying "this is required....and this is required...and this is required....and this is required". The entire video is telling the developer what is required except when it's noted as "optional".

And apparently you missed this slide too while watching the video (either that or you didn't watch it at all).

You told me above to "read the Carplay integration guide", not watch WWDC videos that don't really say what you claim.
I did also say "If you’ve watched the CarPlay integration guide..." in a post before that. Apple provides the slides and a transcript of "Developing CarPlay Systems" as a separate download so both watching and reading are valid methods of consuming this integration guide. Nothing of what I said is false.

Quite interesting you don't seem to want to admit that you were completely wrong about CarPlay going to a certification process which you seemed to have left that particular discussion and joined a separate discussion between me and diamond.g. You're now trying to find a way to be right about this, which you're trying to erroneously insinuate that I mentioned "taking precedent" was a direct quote from Apple, or nit picking about watching vs reading (which both are valid)...

This tells me you're not really focused on the material, but it feels more like you're trying to regain some imaginary internet points which is a waste of time for both of us. Going to end this discussion here with you. Have a good one.
 
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That section describes exactly what happens when the volume knob is moved during CarPlay if you're integrating the system. I don't get why you can't seem to understand this. All first party CarPlay implementations implemented this way because it's required. Apple isn't going to start every slide saying "this is required....and this is required...and this is required....and this is required". The entire video is telling the developer what is required except when it's noted as "optional".

And apparently you missed this slide too while watching the video (either that or you didn't watch it at all).
Nowhere in the presentation does it say that the car's volume control must be routed exclusively to Carplay. If you actually listened to the presentation when this figure is shown, she says that steering wheel controls such as a voice control button may be routed to Carplay even if the "native sub-system" is in the foreground. Nowhere does she say that Apple does not allow buttons to control the volume of the native sub-system.

Quite interesting you don't seem to want to admit that you were completely wrong about CarPlay going to a certification process
I have never once said anything one way or the other about certification, so I don't see how I can be "completely wrong" about it.

You are obviously not interested in an honest discussion. Have a nice day.
 
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Hands on phone? I do see a problem. That's why lawmakers made it ILLEGAL to do that in many states. This is also why Apple made Do Not Disturb While Driving mode and encourages the use of hands free Siri. I can't believe I have to say this. Please stop hand using your phone to control your media while driving as you are putting yourself and other people in danger.

Tesla's most common controls are 1-2 taps away. Anything more than that is dangerous to do while driving.

EXACTLY so I need CarPlay because it's not safe for me to be navigating AudioBooks, Podcasts, Waze, etc because these things aren't included in the awful Tesla infotainment system.
 
EXACTLY so I need CarPlay because it's not safe for me to be navigating AudioBooks, Podcasts, Waze, etc because these things aren't included in the awful Tesla infotainment system.
This conversation is going in circles. You completely lost sight of what I said. I was responding to your comment about CarPlay "very easy to implement with a floating window."

I'm saying it is not "very easy" to implement with a floating window because it has way too many requirements and recommendations. CarPlay wants to be a full screen experience. That would be the easiest way to implement and to use (but even then it still wouldn't be "very easy").

I never said no to CarPlay. I am simply saying it's not an easy thing to do and it requires a ton of engineering resources.
 
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HUD is overrated. The windshield glass is not as tough at least for BMW’s (chips will happen very quickly) and you cannot use polarized sunglasses. I had to find a pair of non polarized, but I dont miss it at all. I added a Model 3 in 2018 and Y in 2020. I dont miss the HUD at all and appreciate my front glass looking almost new.

I know many people get used to it, but when I’ve driven the model 3, I just don’t like the extra eye-travel. There are some aftermarket HUDs that people have installed, but knowing myself, I probably won’t go through the hassle. It’s one of the reasons I’m waiting to see what the Mach E availability will be like.
 
The tesla UI sucks. I’ve been using it for 7 years. It gets worse every year.
At some point Tesla is going to stop doing UI updates for older cars. Then we will get to listen to folk complain that they should get those updates as well.
 
I know many people get used to it, but when I’ve driven the model 3, I just don’t like the extra eye-travel. There are some aftermarket HUDs that people have installed, but knowing myself, I probably won’t go through the hassle. It’s one of the reasons I’m waiting to see what the Mach E availability will be like.
I hope the Mach E does well. We need more companies with vehicles in this space.
 
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