Test Suggests Face ID on iPhone 13 Doesn't Work After Screen Replacement By Third Party

Denzo said:
Automotive industry has been doing this for eternity. 100% itā€™s ******** but they have a point. If Iā€™m paying for your warranty repairs you use my parts in the meantime.
In saying that, if itā€™s out of warranty - no foul imho.
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not about the non-OEM parts is it, this is about switching a screen from another device that is also a genuine part.

so they have in effect crippled taking parts from broken donor devices (i.e. smashed back, internal water damage) šŸ˜”
 
gmacarthur said:
Has nothing to do with screen quality or security. The display module has nothing to do with Face ID and swapping two iPhones genuine screens still disables it. Itā€™s about serialised parts and limiting third party repair only.
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Umm no, this is most likely about a chain of security on the device. Of course the screen itself isn't an issue. The issue is that by removing the screen, a potentially less than reputable repair shop now has access to the logic board and the Face ID unit to potentially tamper with it. So does the screen on its own have to do with Face ID? No, of course not. But does removing that screen for a repair allow a third-party access to the phone internals including the Face ID unit? Yes it does. Therein lies the potential problem and break in the security chain.
 
BGM said:
No it's not, there is a camera array that lives in the 'notch' behind the screen with a series of cameras, and sensors (proximity, ambient light, etc) that sits just behind it..

unless things are diff now on the iPhone 13, which is possible i guess.
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Itā€™s not different.
 
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Psychicbob said:
Yes, I agree but I know you void your warranty if you have your car serviced by a non-franchised dealer during the warranty period. Iā€™m just comparing to other products.
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You donā€™t void your warranty by having it repaired outside of the dealer network. I can maintain a car myself and it still wonā€™t void the warranty.

Magnusonā€“Moss Warranty Act https://g.co/kgs/87ttKg
 
gmacarthur said:
Has nothing to do with screen quality or security. The display module has nothing to do with Face ID and swapping two iPhones genuine screens still disables it. Itā€™s about serialised parts and limiting third party repair only.
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How exactly do you know that they are not connected and use the same circuitry? The FaceID sensor array is attached to the screen. and must be disconnected, removed and attached to a new phone. As I watched the YouTube Repair video I realized itā€™s very good they note this.
Some possible ways to subvert the ID if allowed to access this module without limitations.
1. Insert a transmission device in the path that captures and records FaceID data before reaching the Secure Enclave and gain access later with this data.
2. replace the Secure Enclave with a different one to gain access. Something that can only be done by removing the screen.
 
macmanwa said:
Umm no, this is most likely about a chain of security on the device. Of course the screen itself isn't an issue. The issue is that by removing the screen, a potentially less than reputable repair shop now has access to the logic board and the Face ID unit to potentially tamper with it. So does the screen on its own have to do with Face ID? No, of course not. But does removing that screen for a repair allow a third-party access to the phone internals including the Face ID unit? Yes it does. Therein lies the potential problem and break in the security chain.
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********.

If this is about a ā€œchain of security,ā€ itā€™s broken by simply putting the original display back on after tampering with Face ID.
 
Bushibot said:
This is the kind of behavior that gets more and more attention on right to repair laws.
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Good because Apple isnā€™t the only culprit of doing things like this. We need laws to stop companies from turning their products into basically a SaS model.
 
genovelle said:
Itā€™s integrated into the display right?
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No, the display has nothing to do with Face ID. It only has a cutout for the camera system.
1632755162398.jpeg
 
genovelle said:
How exactly do you know that they are not connected and use the same circuitry? The FaceID sensor array is attached to the screen. and must be disconnected, removed and attached to a new phone. As I watched the YouTube Repair video I realized itā€™s very good they note this.
Some possible ways to subvert the ID if allowed to access this module without limitations.
1. Insert a transmission device in the path that captures and records FaceID data before reaching the Secure Enclave and gain access later with this data.
2. replace the Secure Enclave with a different one to gain access. Something that can only be done by removing the screen.
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i mean.. it sort of is attached to the screen, but only to hold it there.

the actual 'communication' is via a cable to the logic board.
 
BGM said:
i think you're right, but the ways of them going about it are highly anti-consumer.

yes, they protect their brand image, they maintain a level of quality, but the trade-off are unrepairable devices, and grey non-OEM parts.

all they would need to do really is provide a genuine 'service centre' with competent engineers that could actually repair phones rather than run a bunch of diagnostics and then return with news that "sorry you need a new one"...

i mentioned in another reply that not all 3rd parties are shady, and i use one that is exceptionally skilled insofar that they did repair Face ID on one my devices by desoldering some of the parts, and moving them to a new donor part. why can't apple also provide this service? they choose not to, that's why.

in intermediary step would be to allow the purchase of high quality OEM parts, imagine being given the CHOICE to go to the apple store, pick up a new screen.. and then find your favourite 3rd party installer to install it even if apple didn't want to. You would know 100% that the parts were good, and you would be getting 'non-franchise' labour rates similar to how anyone sensible gets their car repaired/serviced.
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I agree with the points you make but Apple and companies like them will not go for their items constantly being repaired because they want people to purchase new. In Apples case, you can see why they heavily restrict how their phones are repaired due to the constant release of iphones. The iphone X produced 2017-2018, iphone XS produced 2018-2019, iphone 11 produced 2019-2020, iphone 12 produced 2020-2021 now iphone 13 produced 2021. For the past 4 years Apple have produced a phone every year. This kind of production does not want previous models repaired, it wants new phones purchased. This kind of production needs to brought under control because it produces far too much e-waste.

Look at the issue that occured with the iphone 4, thousands upon thousands of perfectly working iphones became scrap overnight due to owners forgetting all their phone passwords and apple id's and thus their phone became a desk weight because the phone was icloud locked and Apple refused to remove the locks saying 'we're unable to remove icloud locks'. Thousands upon thousands of fully working iphone 4 rendered useless and not a single countries government did anything about it. Apple can make as much e-waste as they want and get away with it which is why Apple has no incentive to do actual repairs on their phones because no government is prepared to force them to do it.
 
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ā€œRight to repair.ā€ More like right to screw up your device and install hacks. Yeah, I canā€™t imagine why Apple isnā€™t all for thisā€¦
 
twistedpixel8 said:
Most car manufacturers do require OEM parts to be used during warranty period or the warranty can be invalidated. Same with servicing at an authorized dealer. Ok not tyres but just about everything else.

Iā€™m not saying thatā€™s OK but it is absolutely true - even in ā€œwe love our consumer protection lawsā€ Europe.
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Nope, card does not have to be serviced at dealer. You can service it yourself or at 3rd party shop. Manufacturer cannot deny warranty based on that. That is for wear and tear items. Other stuff if needs to be fixed/replaced, will be done under manufacturer warranty.
 
laptech said:
I agree with the points you make but Apple and companies like them will not go for their items constantly being repaired because they want people to purchase new. In Apples case, you can see why they heavily restrict how their phones are repaired due to the constant release of iphones. The iphone X produced 2017-2018, iphone XS produced 2018-2019, iphone 11 produced 2019-2020, iphone 12 produced 2020-2021 now iphone 13 produced 2021. For the past 4 years Apple have produced a phone every year. This kind of production does not want previous models repaired, it wants new phones purchased. This kind of production needs to brought under control because it produces far too much e-waste.

Look at the issue that occured with the iphone 4, thousands upon thousands of perfectly working iphones became scrap overnight due to owners forgetting all their phone passwords and apple id's and thus their phone became a desk weight because the phone was icloud locked and Apple refused to remove the locks saying 'we're unable to remove icloud locks'. Thousands upon thousands of fully working iphone 4 rendered useless and not a single countries government did anything about it. Apple can make as much e-waste as they want and get away with it which is why Apple has no incentive to do actual repairs on their phones because no government is prepared to force them to do it.
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e-waste is an ENORMOUS problem and it makes me very very angry indeed.

apple make high quality products that last for years (i still use a 2015 MBP13, no issues), the single most frustrating thing about apple is not being able to actually REPAIR items whether this is at apple, or increasingly not anywhere else! šŸ˜”
 
laptech said:
We've all been there, looked at a secondhand iphone, thinking the screen looks a bit dull and not sharp (icons do not look crisp and clear), touch response is not as smooth as it should be, the battery do not appear to hold it's charge as long as it should do and then we say to ourselves, 'this is a rubbish iphone, what the hell is Apple doing'. we never stop to think what has the owner done to the phone to have it behave that way, for some reason we automatically blame Apple for the poor quality of that phone, not realising that it is actually the owners doing in having cheap quality parts fitted when it needed repairing. The seller is not going to tell the buyer what they have done to the phone because they know if they do it could drive the price down so instead, they keep quiet and give the impression that it is a genuine iphone.

This is the kind of thing that i think Apple are trying to prevent because they know it is part of human nature to be dishonest and deceitful and thus Apple get the blame for something that it the fault of the iphones original owner. If we are prepared to fix our phones with cheap quality parts, why should Apple take the flak for poor quality phones when their owners are not prepared to tell the truth about what they did to the iphone.

I see nothing wrong in Apple wanting to protect their brand name in the second hand market.
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So, FaceID was introduced with iPhone X. This was like 4 years ago. So why isnā€™t Apple concerned about its so-called brand name in the second hand market then?

Apple already give that stupid warning about non-genuine iPhone screen. So why now disable FaceID all together?

If you are arguing about security, then why Apple didnā€™t do this in pat 4 years?

This is other right to repair hostile move. It is time to force Apple along all other manufacturers to allow user repair.
 
twistedpixel8 said:
Yeah, OEM ones donā€™t. Third party ones could very well have one, unbeknown to the consumer. Much like these new malicious USB cables.
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You do know that screens DISPLAY information right? There are no sensors to acquire data (of any type). Even if there was a chip what exactly would that chip interface with? There is nothing in the iPhone for such a chip to connect to. You should seriously defer to people who actually know what they are talking about as you apparently have no idea how electronics work at any level.
 
d3bug said:
You do know that screens DISPLAY information right? There are no sensors to acquire data (of any type). Even if there was a chip what exactly would that chip interface with? There is nothing in the iPhone for such a chip to connect to. You should seriously defer to people who actually know what they are talking about as you apparently have no idea how electronics work at any level.
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5G, via a vaccine probably :p
 
I can only go on my own experience and with my previous phone an iPhone X, my kid Had thrown my iPhone which resulted in some very minor visible damage, the screen had a hairline crack up the top. I went to apple for a screen replacement and they wanted $470aud or something ludacris which, fine, I accepted despite the phone being 4 years old. The lady comes back and says the Face ID module doesnā€™t fully work upon testing. Her test showed it was active but the second check said something was faulty. Because of this, they couldnt replace screen as they can only repair my phone if I had working Face ID which meant they must do full replacement of the iphone. They could offer me a replacement for $950AUD (4 year old phone). Not the best experience for me given I have spent a small fortune on apple products over the years iPads iMacs MacBooks MacBook pros iPhones you name it.. I think I had probably 10 iPods alone. It was a very ā€œhigh and dryā€ experience.
Donā€™t tell me itā€™s for your security. They get you by the balls. Sorry if itā€™s a bit rantish but that experience which happened earlier this year was a bit fresh for me to feel for apple and they Face ID prices/repairs.
 
MrWeenus said:
I will get thrown under the bus here, but I agree with apple locking down repairs 100%. I have seen so many apple products with counterfeit parts that did not work correctly after the "repair".

I'd rather pay a premium, but know for sure that these parts are 100% genuine. I'm sick and tired of shady phone repair shops.
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Then maybe you should be more careful (as a consumer) which repair shops to use, instead of taking away other people's rights to do what they want with THEIR property.
 
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