Testing of iOS Browsers With Third-Party Engines Geofenced to EU

[ProbablyDylan]

This is pretty egregious, I fail to see how this is justifiable. Are Americans not allowed to design and test products designed for the European market without flying out?

Who is Tim Apple to tell developers that they cannot reasonably make or test products for different markets?

 

[ashdelacroix]

Of course there are people here who claim that Apple has every right to limit absolutely everything to the EU space. And they do. But it's cosmically stupid. It's stupid in practice and execution.

Apple is doing the equivalent of saying "you have the right to use the bathroom" but then not putting one in your office. You have one at home. Go use that.

I defend Apple's decision - but it makes them look like absolute jerks, because no one can possibly argue that the technical workforce isn't always centralized. (edit: to be specific, it shouldn't be Apple's right to dictate how companies are organized and structured as a sort of retaliatory action)

Apple can and should be a lot nicer here, if they cared about developers.

Although I cannot bear the EU (for reasons I won't repeat again here), I also agree that Apple is being a jerk and it knows it is. Apple is very rapacious and greedy but is extremely good at projecting a bit of a down-home, startup spirit which is totally at odds with its $250bn bank balance.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

Apple should be doing everything they can* to help web developers treat Safari as something other than an afterthought. Instead they pull this crap.

*Including providing Safari for Windows again so Windows-only devs can test on Safari and debug on iOS Safari. Larger organizations will do what it takes to test on Macs, but the sooner a bug is caught, the cheaper it is to fix. The cheaper it is to fix a bug, the more likely it is that it will get fixed. A dev with access to Safari can catch bugs sooner than a separate testing organization can.

also have safari updates not tied to mac os on mac os.
older macs that get cut off from mac os updates don't get safari updates

 

[Joe The Dragon]

The DMA does not apply outside of the EU, since the EU cannot override non-EU countries laws, so it is no surprise that you would have to be physically located in the EU to be under its protections to try on the device.

so EU people are not allowed to go out side of the EU? What about people on the border still in the EU but apple says to bad our system says you are not in the EU.

north ireland / ireland issues?

 

[hans1972]

Apple can and should be a lot nicer here, if they cared about developers.

They don't and that's why I like Apple. Apple sees developers as means to an end. The same way I do it.
I'm quite happy Apple treats developers as second class citizens.

 

[hans1972]

Can someone explain how 3rd party browser engines are bad? Can they do something malicious to your device?

It's bad because it allows Chrome/Chromium on iOS devices which means there is even less push against web developers to support Safari/Webkit.

This will hurt me as a Safari users on Mac and iOS.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

It's bad because it allows Chrome/Chromium on iOS devices which means there is even less push against web developers to support Safari/Webkit.

Which is a push for Apple to put work into improving Safari / Webkit, to your benefit.

Apple simply needs to make a superior product, which they're more than capable of doing. They just haven't had a reason to.

 

[jz0309]

don't see anything wrong here. Essentially the EU has setup it's version of the "walled garden" and if you want to do business there ...

 

[hans1972]

Which is a push for Apple to put work into improving Safari / Webkit, to your benefit.

Apple simply needs to make a superior product, which they're more than capable of doing. They just haven't had a reason to.

Browser support isn't based on which browser is best for me. It's based on usage for a particular website or web application.

Safari on both Mac and iOS is the best browser for that platform when you care about energy usage and memory usage in addition to not supporting to much web application technologies.

I don't want Apple to make a superior browser since I don't want the web to be a great application platform. I want applications to be specific to each operating system the run on and integrate tightly with the system.

 

[bbplayer5]

Starting to really sour on Apple. This isn’t right.

 

[JippaLippa]

Despite what one might think about the dmca, rolling it out worldwide would make for a much cleaner transition...

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Browser support isn't based on which browser is best for me. It's based on usage for a particular website or web application.

A superior browser would attract a userbase which increases it's share of the market. This is how Chrome came to nearly monopolize the browser space. Just so happens that Chrome is no longer very good.

I don't want Apple to make a superior browser since I don't want the web to be a great application platform. I want applications to be specific to each operating system the run on and integrate tightly with the system.

Not everything needs to be a native app or tightly integrated with the system. I rue the day I need to download and run software (from Apple's approved Marketplace!) to browse a restaurant menu or type out a forum response.

 

[JippaLippa]

Browser support isn't based on which browser is best for me. It's based on usage for a particular website or web application.

Safari on both Mac and iOS is the best browser for that platform when you care about energy usage and memory usage in addition to not supporting to much web application technologies.

I don't want Apple to make a superior browser since I don't want the web to be a great application platform. I want applications to be specific to each operating system the run on and integrate tightly with the system.

I have to agree!
I love safari, and I wish I could use it as my sole browser, on macOS.

I have to use Firefox on the side, as Safari (for whatever reason) is very slow and choppy with website animations (even the ones on apple's website).

Considering I'm a professional animator, animation playback is paramount.

In my daily life I use Safari 80% of the time, but whenever I need to do anything animation related, Firefox it is!

 

[ProbablyDylan]

I have to agree!
I love safari, and I wish I could use it as my sole browser, on macOS.

I have to use Firefox on the side, as Safari (for whatever reason) is very slow and choppy with website animations (even the ones on apple's website).

Considering I'm a professional animator, animation playback is paramount.

In my daily life I use Safari 80% of the time, but whenever I need to do anything animation related, Firefox it is!

Imagine if Apple worked on improving Safari for your use case!

 

[turbineseaplane]

It must be exhausting to constantly prevent users from doing what they want with their device.

That's what I keep coming back to

All of this hamstringing users to try to keep control over them
They aren't worried about what's good for customers ... they are just absolute control freaks at this point.

Apple has totally lost the plot

 

[kognos]

They don't and that's why I like Apple. Apple sees developers as means to an end. The same way I do it.
I'm quite happy Apple treats developers as second class citizens.

Your IOS devices will be less useful with less apps. If you're not courting developers, they will leave. Android has a great market, this encourages more and exclusive presentation there.

Bear in mind I don't care what device you pick - everyone can like what they like of course. But imagine if an application you actually wanted was only available on Android because of this "Second-Class citizen" mindset that Apple presents. Then your device gets less useful.

This ultimately affects the entire Apple ecosystem. So respectfully, your opinion has a lot of self-harm.

It's bad because it allows Chrome/Chromium on iOS devices which means there is even less push against web developers to support Safari/Webkit.

You like that Apple treats developers as second-class citizens, yet don't like it when developers aren't courting Apple-only results.

Why should a developer even care about Apple or what Apple wants at this point? You can't have it both ways. Either you make developers happy and that happiness translates to better development and engagement on the platform -- or you don't.

 

[TheOldChevy]

Indeed, I'll cry zero tears for any issues the EU has with this DMA nonsense. The more friction the better as far as I'm concerned. The whole thing is ridiculous. I don't care what company you are the EU is so full of it and trying to dictate everything. I hope they get what they "wanted".

When you live outside USA, you can replace "EU" by "USA" in the above statement and get the same feeling. In this specific case, EU is not looking for being the exception, it proposes its view of competition rules (which is quite similar to USA rules, 40 years ago, before the competition laws were made nearly empty).

 

[Kiwidevdude]

Other countries are looking at similar laws, it will be interesting if more move on it…

 

[turbineseaplane]

Other countries are looking at similar laws, it will be interesting if more move on it…

Sure hope so

Apple are wildly out of control drunk with power

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Your IOS devices will be less useful with less apps. If you're not courting developers, they will leave. Android has a great market, this encourages more and exclusive presentation there.

To highlight how important it is to court developers; This is what killed Windows Phone.

 

[bobbie424242]

Usual Apple tactics to make stuff it is forced to do as painful as possible, trolling developers and regulators.

 

[nsayer]

Apple should just abandon the European market. It's getting to the point that putting up with European socialism is just not worth the extra hassle.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Indeed, I'll cry zero tears for any issues the EU has with this DMA nonsense. The more friction the better as far as I'm concerned. The whole thing is ridiculous. I don't care what company you are the EU is so full of it and trying to dictate everything. I hope they get what they "wanted".

Yeah, it would be one thing if they actually were looking to make things better for their citizens. However, in their non-English comments about the DMA, they showed their entire butts!

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apple should just abandon the European market. It's getting to the point that putting up with European socialism is just not worth the extra hassle.

That would get Tim fired (as it should)
It's not a small market

You don't just "abandon" large percentages of your market for ..."vibes"

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Looks like the feasibility of me using iPad or Vision Pro for my work computer is also geofenced to the EU.

I think it’s STILL very interesting that there’s clear documentation out there that shows AVP going to China, but nothing for EU nations yet. The rumor is that people are flying to Apple for AVP training, but why wouldn’t they just fly 6 trainers to each of the EU countries for training?