Testing Out Apple's Self Repair Program With an iPhone 12 Mini Battery Fix

[surfzen21]

Wish he showed the battery health, the cycles on the battery and that its recognized as an apple battery.

Strange that its shipped almost completely dead. Not good for the battery and their phones never ship like that.

 

[ST Dog]

Based on my own experience, I don't believe Apple are designing obsolescence through battery life into their products, and given the cost of replacing a battery it's highly unlikely to be a profit-centre.

The cost is now. It wasn't that long ago that Apple charged a lot more for out of warranty/non-Apple care battery and screen replacements, IF they would even do them. The mess in 2017 with the 6s seems to be when that started to change.

If apple had been doing battery replacements at the current prices the aftermarket batteries/kit for the 4, 5, 6 and 7 series wouldn't have been so prevalent. Few would have paid for $30-40 copy installed if it was only $50 for the OE part installed by authorized centers.

 

[ST Dog]

Wish he showed the battery health, the cycles on the battery and that its recognized as an apple battery.

Well it wouldn't show that recognition until after calling Apple and them doing their thing so the phone would accept the battery as OEM.

Strange that its shipped almost completely dead. Not good for the battery and their phones never ship like that.

Phones don't have exposed battery terminals that might get shorted in shipping, handling, or installation.

 

[ST Dog]

I'm with you!
And correct me if I'm wrong but i have not seen any glue on my 200m water resistant diver watch. With a multitude of sensors. And the battery is quite easy to replace retaining the water resistance 😏😄

LOL, I wasn't even thinking about quarts movements with batteries.
But yes, my old Ironman is just 4 screws and an o-ring and has 100m water resistance.
(Ever see the old Timex commercial with the watch on a outboard motor prop? That was a mechanical movement too.)

That said, properly testing a watch for water tightness does take some specialized equipment.
I'd never use a vintage watch (20+ yrs old) in the water without having it tested.
Something new from a reputable company with all the factory seals sure, but after a service or two I'd be wary it was still tight w/o testing. (testing under controlled conditions and where it can be properly dried immediately if it fails)

I have a Russian dive watch but I don't go in the water with it. I don't trust the seals.

Same with phones. I'm not taking a new phone into the water, let alone a repaired one.
Great protections from accidents, but I'm not testing the IP rating on any phone

 

[nikaru]

it still does not make sense for a business to get it just for replacing batteries. This means the business is getting actually paid 69-46=23$ for the service which will probably take couple of hours. Even if it only takes an hour still the business is getting paid 24$ an hour. This is most likely the technician's hourly rate. And where is the company profit here? If the business needs to be competitive it needs to provide better price than Apple which will reduce even further the income from the repair. Even for more expensive repairs it does not make sense, because the Apple parts prices are too high to make a sense economically. It might make some sense only for the end user for the costly repairs and is always a double edge sword.

Im not referring to a business of phone repairs, but rather maintenance of larger enterprises. In my company there are 3000+ iPhones deployed among employees. The IT desk receives broken ones each day. It is convenient and cheaper to repair these in house instead of sending them back to Apple.

 

[dsut4392]

I'm with you!
And correct me if I'm wrong but i have not seen any glue on my 200m water resistant diver watch. With a multitude of sensors. And the battery is quite easy to replace retaining the water resistance 😏😄

The smaller the surface area and the greater the rigidity, the easier it is to make a reliable seal. Not to mention the seals on your watch all being circular rather than rectangular. Make a phone circular, and scale all the thickness/screen size proportions the same as your dive watch and it becomes a whole lot easier. You don't see any big rectangular windows on a submarine...

 

[ST Dog]

The smaller the surface area and the greater the rigidity, the easier it is to make a reliable seal. Not to mention the seals on your watch all being circular rather than rectangular.

Phones don't have sharp corners for that reason. It's not really a rectangle.

But there are lots of water tight seals on straight sided, rounded corner devices that aren't glued together and can be easily taken apart with a screwdriver. For a long time that was the only reliable way. It's just modern adhesives are better than back then and can be released/removed (normally with heat). It's much cheaper to seal something up with glue than to engineer a separate seal and fastening system.

 

[cosmichobo]

Based on my own experience, I don't believe Apple are designing obsolescence through battery life into their products, and given the cost of replacing a battery it's highly unlikely to be a profit-centre. My iPhone 7 battery is still fine, and I bought it in January 2017 and I used it as my only phone until Sept 2021.

I do believe that apples design choices that make iphones a PITA to disassemble and repair have added significant value to me. I replaced the 7 because the audio processor on it died, so it wasn't indestructible - but it had survived years of abuse that a phone designed for repairability would not have. The audio died the day after a weekend whitewater rescue course during which the phone was in an outer pocket of my PFD and would have spent hours submerged (I carried it as a camera, with a wrist strap attached to a go-pro mount stuck on the back of a regular bumper case). This was far from a one-off use case, I routinely used the phone that way over the preceding 4 years, and it had survived multiple weekend and week long river and sea kayaking trips with long periods of immersion in salt and fresh water (both tropical and snow-melt rivers), regular disinfection with 70% alcohol, washing in the sink with dishwashing detergent, trips to the Sahara desert in 45 degree heat, jungles of Borneo in 100% humidity, -18 degrees in the snow in Japan ...

I'm not an expert, and to be fair - don't know that the people I have seen talking on here/Youtube etc actually know their stuff either, but I have heard plenty of comparisons made between Apple and other brands, pointing out that iPhones do seem to be built way beyond the necessities of waterproofing etc, and in particular with regard to how the batteries are fastened.

It's not dissimilar to the way that Apple is now making it so that you can no longer replace the hard drive and/or RAM in a Mac. That move absolutely limits a devices longevity. It has traditionally been the easiest way to extend a computer's life - pop in more RAM, and/or a bigger, faster HDD.

You can't tell me that these measures are solely due to Apple wanting to offer products that are more robust for their customers, or offer better security. They would KNOW without a doubt that these steps - gluing batteries and ending user-replaceable parts - means more sales for them.

I appreciate that many people would not attempt their own repairs - but there are plenty of people / businesses that buy old tech and "refurbish" it, then sell on. But, when you have things like soldered RAM / glued batteries - that makes it hard even for people who know what they are doing.

 

[LonderJan]

About 20 years ago I had Siemens ME45. Splash proof and you could exchange the battery by just using a coin.
That was german engineering

Clearly not something that a lot of people actually wanted because between 2000 and 2005 their shares and sales were plummeting and they eventually sold their mobile devision to BenQ.

 

[LonderJan]

I think the message has become confused. Or quite possibly - there are multiple messages being confused together.

My point has always been that Apple (and any others guilty of it) should stop making devices that are deliberately difficult to repair. I know that's not something that can easily be policed. I get it. But - we are not living in a world of unlimited resources. We are going to run out. Making devices last longer is a necessity.

One of the things I have always loved about Apple, was how long their products lasted. I have a 20+ year old Apple Cube sitting in my office that still functions as well as the day it was made. (Probably.) I appreciate that software advances can leave a product behind due to natural progression. Try surf the net on a 20 year old computer and you're in for pain. But - the device can still be used for many functions, despite its age.

Yet, a 3 year old iPhone is seen as a throw away item - not because it is useless, but because it wont hold a charge, and putting a new battery in isn't just a matter of popping open the back and swapping it over.

Apple could still make its billions of dollars without the heavy push in recent years toward products that are built not to last. (Ok, I have no suggestions on how - but they could!)

All these products are exceptionally well made but the world moves on at an exponential rate. People want newer, better, faster, thinner, sharper, more megapixels. Why do you think product launches are so popular? The majority of people are still/always looking forward to the next iteration of a product

I currently have an iMac M1, looks fantastic, it's fast, the screen is amazing (the sound is not) and people tell me that the onboard camera was a pleasure to look at during meetings. The iMac that I had before this one, was 10 years old, still worked fine but I was unable to update the OS anymore. I get that, newer feature required newer hardware. It's a consequence of evolution. Did I need to replace it? No, but I wanted to replace it. That's a choice. The manufacturer did not force me to do that. My current iPhone Xs is 3 years old, the battery life is maybe not as good as when I initially bought it but it does the job. I still have an iPhone 6 in a drawer here somewhere that still works as well but it doesn't have touchid, the camera is not really that good, etc. I love my AirPods Pro, would it be a successful product that is comfortable to wear if they made it to last? I don't think so.

There is a solution for everything. Battery problem? Have it replaced, slap on a battery cover or accept the fact that you have to charge it more often or buy a new phone, buy another phone if you are not happy with the design.

Are Tesla drivers complaining about the fact that, for certain specific things, they have to go to a Tesla service center? Some things are just part of a design and people need to accept that. Plenty of alternatives out there.

 

[ST Dog]

Are Tesla drivers complaining about the fact that, for certain specific things, they have to go to a Tesla service center?

Many are.

 

[LonderJan]

Many are.

... about the fact that it is hard to find a Tesla Service Center nearby because Tesla had a serious problem in that area. Add a product with a build quality that is not that impressive and that is definitely going to be a valid problem.

That is not what this is about.

 

[ST Dog]

... about the fact that it is hard to find a Tesla Service Center nearby because Tesla had a serious problem in that area. Add a product with a build quality that is not that impressive and that is definitely going to be a valid problem.

That is not what this is about.

Coolant fitting breaks and you have to replace the whole battery, for $16k.
A few dead cells and you you have to replace the entire battery.

Plenty complaints about Tesla service. And while some issues are solved with 3rd party repair there are lockouts (similar to how Apple pairs parts in devices).

 

[LonderJan]

Coolant fitting breaks and you have to replace the whole battery, for $16k.
A few dead cells and you you have to replace the entire battery.

Plenty complaints about Tesla service. And while some issues are solved with 3rd party repair there are lockouts (similar to how Apple pairs parts in devices).

Then don't buy a Tesla

If you want this, buy this:

If you want that, buy that:

You will need to compromise in both cases.

 

[ST Dog]

Then don't buy a Tesla

So back to, if you don't like it don't buy it. Screw reparability (particularly at a reasonable cost).
Never mind how it's becoming less and less of an option.

Busted coolant connector, you're fine with a $16k battery change.
Guess you'd be fine if a bad water pump required a new engine too.


I'm glad you only ever take your vehicle to the dealer for service. All service: oil change, tires, brakes, wiper blades, bulbs, everything.

I like the option to do it myself, or take to any shop I care too.
I like the option to change a bushing instead of the entire control arm. Or replace the water pump instead of the engine.

Broke the screen on your $1000 phone after 3 months, screw it, buy a new phone.
Meanwhile I want to repair my $250 phone 3 years later with a $30 screen.
(I also keep my 14 yr old laptop running with replacement and upgraded parts)


Again, this new option from Apple is a start. We need more parts.
We need similar from other manufacturers (Samsung, Lenovo, LG, etc).

 

[LonderJan]

So back to, if you don't like it don't buy it. Screw reparability (particularly at a reasonable cost).
Never mind how it's becoming less and less of an option.

Busted coolant connector, you're fine with a $16k battery change.
Guess you'd be fine if a bad water pump required a new engine too.


I'm glad you only ever take your vehicle to the dealer for service. All service: oil change, tires, brakes, wiper blades, bulbs, everything.

I like the option to do it myself, or take to any shop I care too.
I like the option to change a bushing instead of the entire control arm. Or replace the water pump instead of the engine.

Broke the screen on your $1000 phone after 3 months, screw it, buy a new phone.
Meanwhile I want to repair my $250 phone 3 years later with a $30 screen.
(I also keep my 14 yr old laptop running with replacement and upgraded parts)


Again, this new option from Apple is a start. We need more parts.
We need similar from other manufacturers (Samsung, Lenovo, LG, etc).

No, but there needs to be a choice between the thinner slicker cool looking $1000 iPhone and the uglier repairable $1500 iPhone.

It's like asking Leica that they make their camera's repairable at a reasonable cost. Not going to happen but if you buy one and bad luck strikes, you should take that hit. You can complain about it but demanding self repairability is silly (if you are watch maker, I can understand that you prefer to repair it yourself, it's still silly to think they would do that)

 

[laptech]

There's a way of thinking revealed in this thread that I find endemic in the world over. It's the idea that there's no such thing as an expert: that anyone anywhere can do anything, and that anyone who claims to be an expert is just an elite trying to oppress the people.

I WANT Apple to design devices so complex that I can't fix them. By analogy, if you want a simple car you can fix and maintain all on your own, go buy a 70's Volkswagen Beetle. But most people understand that the performance and safety features of modern cars create a value beyond easy repair and self-maintenance.

I want a phone that packs as much technology into as small a space as possible. That makes it as waterproof as possible. You want a lego-style phone that is easy to repair? It's going to come at the sacrifice of tech and size.

The Internet and Democracy have sped up this notion that everyone is an expert on everything: complex economic issues? Nonsense! Complex diplomatic issues? Nonsense! It's just the elites trying to exploit the people!

No, complexity exists. And I want complexity. You're free to buy a phone that doesn't have the level of complexity of an Apple Iphone. There are gadgets on the market for that. But it's not the market I want Apple to pursue. I want Apple to engineer amazingly complex devices that I get to use without much thought.

"Right to Repair" is a stupid movement. Nothing is stopping anyone from starting a company whose whole aim is building simple phones. But the vast majority of people seemingly don't want that.

But people do not want to pay 'expert' prices to have their devices fixed, they want to pay as little as possible hence why the Right to Repair bill is trying to be pushed through because it would force manufactureres of tech devices to give up their repair manuals and repair tools to 'home users' so they can repair their own device. But lets not kid ourselves here, device owners do not want to repair their own device, they want an experienced 3rd party repair company to repair it who will do so at a more cheaper cost than Apple, but these 3rd party repair companies do not have the repair documentation or proper repair tools to be able to repair Apple devices so how do they get such documents and tools, oh I know, lets push through a Right to Repair bill pretending that device owners want to repair their own iphones, that should do the trick.

 

[LonderJan]

But people do not want to pay 'expert' prices to have their devices fixed, they want to pay as little as possible hence why the Right to Repair bill is trying to be pushed through because it would force manufactureres of tech devices to give up their repair manuals and repair tools to 'home users' so they can repair their own device. But lets not kid ourselves here, device owners do not want to repair their own device, they want an experienced 3rd party repair company to repair it who will do so at a more cheaper cost than Apple, but these 3rd party repair companies do not have the repair documentation or proper repair tools to be able to repair Apple devices so how do they get such documents and tools, oh I know, lets push through a Right to Repair bill pretending that device owners want to repair their own iphones, that should do the trick.

People spending $600 or $800 or $1300 on an iPhone are unwilling to pay expert prices ... 🤣🤣

 

[LonderJan]

These are the same tools that certified repair technicians are required to use - so it is not "cumbersome."

It may be true this program is simply a way for Apple to say, "See - you can fix it yourself" but if you do, you'll sleep better knowing you fixed your phone the right way.

unless you have two left hands, are using it the wrong way and break either your phone or the kit in the process. In any of those cases, I'm convince people will not think it's their fault but that it was designed to fail and cause damage...

 

[ST Dog]

If the comparison continues to be car companies, it's fallacious. The car industry has evolved the way it has evolved over more than a century. They are different types of products.

You haven't been paying attention. The auto makers are doing the same crap. So are the makers of farm equipment. Even home appliances. It started with small throwaway items and has crept into multi-million dollar equipment.

It's not just about phones (though that's all this forum focuses on), it's about everything. Things that have historically been repairable by the end user or their preferred service provider. And expecting similar for new items as they come along.

 

[ST Dog]

unless you have two left hands, are using it the wrong way and break either your phone or the kit in the process. In any of those cases, I'm convince people will not think it's their fault but that it was designed to fail and cause damage...

Still wondering when personal accountability disappeared.

If I take something apart and break it, that's on me. Period.
Whether is a $1000 phone using "professional" tools, or my kids $10 toy.

 

[ST Dog]

It's like asking Leica that they make their camera's repairable at a reasonable cost. Not going to happen but if you buy one and bad luck strikes, you should take that hit.

Which cameras? My Leica M3 is as repairable as my Mamiya C330 and both can be repaired at reasonable costs. Parts are easy to find.
And there's no OEM/ASP limited parts so I could try to repair myself.

Meanwhile I have Pentax ZX from the 80s that is also repairable but because it wasn't a popular model parts are difficult to find. Not because the OE restricted parts, just not enough demand.

Similar to cars. I can find the parts to basically rebuild build my '71 VW or '68 GMC with all new parts. But not my '70 Cadillac. But it's not because the OEM prevents it.

 

[adb1973]

I just can't believe what i read here:
- i can't speak for @ST Dog but i guess we only say that we don't want manufacturers to make it unnecessary difficult to repair 'easy to repair' stuff. Other than some of you state here that IS the case with a whole lot of products/manufacturers.

Fun story to share about a toilet seat:
I lost a proprietary bolt inside the structure (not the water) of a 'soft close' A-brand toilet seat.

Ordering a new bolt was impossible even through the factory, after a month of fruitless mailing and calling in disbelieve I gave up. Because the only option they gave me was buying a new set of screws for:
- €114,- I guess $120

Then some day I got a revelation and went to the hardware store to buy a certain kind of 'rawl nuts' and fixed it for $3,99. I'm sure the seat stays on even if Putin throws an A-bom on it.

Same with the Nespresso with special Torx screws - with a pin! in the middle - just to prevent you to place a $4 spare part and force you to buy a new one... or bring it to a certified Nespresso repairshop that actually charges MORE for the repair than for the machine.

F*ck the environment and the customer for profit they think

I don't see how that's a tendency we should not at least try to break through.

 

[ST Dog]

Same with the Nespresso with special Torx screws - with a pin! in the middle

Did you know Security Torx came out in 1972?
Thankfully bits/drivers are cheap and easy to find these days.
(like this $6 set for lots of anti-tamper crews https://www.harborfreight.com/security-bit-set-33-pc-68459.html)

Not so before the era of online shopping and the likes of Amazon.

But yes their sole purpose is to make it hard to work on. There are items and places where security bits are useful, but a coffee maker isn't one of them.

 

[adb1973]

I don't know how it's in the US but recently I thought I ask a certified repair company to repair the heat +microwave oven and later our washing machine (very busy at work, so no time for a DIY+'research')
Experience:
- they had no time, because they also did all warranty work for Samsung, etc.
- parts were $60-90
- invoice estimate $250+ About 50% of the new price.

Charges were (again) so steep we 'had to buy'/bought new machines.

Really felt forced into buying.

It's not planned obsolescence maybe but it's definitely on purpose anti-repair ALSO for third party mechanics