Testing Out Apple's Self Repair Program With an iPhone 12 Mini Battery Fix

[GMarx66]

Again with narrow minded thinking.

You do not need a 30 lb display press when a flat lightweight clamp can achieve the same result. Apple doesn’t need to ship a 79 lb tool package to the customer.

Something like 3M VHB needs only 15 PSI to activate.

It's not "narrow minded" if it's the procedure. You don't have to follow the procedure (your choice) but the repair wouldn't be completed in the recommended manner.

Using the correct presses/fixtures ensures the appropriate amount of pressure is applied for a prescribed amount of time.

But, sure, go ahead and use VHB tape to fix and iPhone and let me know how that goes.

 

[ST Dog]

So if you just get the battery & return the old parts it costs you $46.

And we would still need to have the tools, right?

Correct. A screwdriver set, a hair dryer/heat gun, and a guitar pick.

Useful items for other tasks, not just purpose built tools. And if you are a DIY type you probably already have the tools.

 

[H2SO4]

Yet any random person can buy parts and tools to do a brake job. But somehow phone repair is a big problem.

It sounds like we're making the same point?

 

[JPack]

It's not "narrow minded" if it's the procedure. You don't have to follow the procedure (your choice) but the repair wouldn't be completed in the recommended manner.

Using the correct presses/fixtures ensures the appropriate amount of pressure is applied for a prescribed amount of time.

But, sure, go ahead and use VHB tape to fix and iPhone and let me know how that goes.

Again, the tools that Apple is renting and selling were not developed by Apple. They simply took tools that are widely available in the repair community and put Pelican protector cases around them.

Your response is narrow minded because you don't understand there are multiple ways to achieve the same result, whether it's PSI or temperature.

Adding 2+2 is not the only way to reach 4.

 

[adb1973]

My point? That forcing Apple to manufacture products to appease a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of people will not serve the vast majority of people who want Apple to focus on things other than ease of repair.

You bring up the analogy of changing a tire. Let's explore that. Putting aside taking off a flat and reinstalling a spare tire (the analogy here I think is like using an external battery on your iPhone if the internal battery has been drained), I doubt even 1% of people have ever bought new tires, taken the old tires off of the rim, and installed the new tires onto to the rim. Your analogy sort of proves my point. Sure, you COULD do that, but the tools, time and effort have made it entirely infeasible for the overwhelming majority of car owners.

Right to Repair is a fantasy idea of a world that simply doesn't exist. I understand the fantasy. But it's infeasible in any practical sense, and may actually have negative side effects. But as I say above, support companies and products that provide what you want. Don't force, through legislation, products to conform to your pet issue.

Sigh. Right to repair is also to give 3rd party repair shops the ability to change the battery with genuine parts and the official procedure.
Overall it's going to give us all better competition, more choice and reasonable prices.

 

[ST Dog]

It sounds like we're making the same point?

Seemed like you were arguing against a layman making repairs.

Perhaps I misunderstood.

The thread is full of people that are arguing against users doing phone repairs, yet any schmuck can go to AutoZone for brake parts and a $20 tool kit.

 

[adb1973]

My point? That forcing Apple to manufacture products to appease a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of people will not serve the vast majority of people who want Apple to focus on things other than ease of repair.

You bring up the analogy of changing a tire. Let's explore that. Putting aside taking off a flat and reinstalling a spare tire (the analogy here I think is like using an external battery on your iPhone if the internal battery has been drained), I doubt even 1% of people have ever bought new tires, taken the old tires off of the rim, and installed the new tires onto to the rim. Your analogy sort of proves my point. Sure, you COULD do that, but the tools, time and effort have made it entirely infeasible for the overwhelming majority of car owners.

Right to Repair is a fantasy idea of a world that simply doesn't exist. I understand the fantasy. But it's infeasible in any practical sense, and may actually have negative side effects. But as I say above, support companies and products that provide what you want. Don't force, through legislation, products to conform to your pet issue.

In the end Right to repair will deliver more competition and genuine repair parts. It will deliver white label repair shops access a more level playing field and the regular DIY guys a possibility to maintain the phones of their friends and family.

I only see benefits:
On a competition level
On a price level
On an environmental level

What has to stop is the idea that all this great high tech stuff is disposable after a few years.

I upgraded my fathers late 2006 Imac with left over SSD, maxed out memory and an unsupported OSX and Windows 10 (bootcamp) and it runs way better than you might imagine. I understand that is against Apple's wishes but from an end users point of view that machine is still very useable.
Same goes for my 2012 27 inch iMac, which is without question the best computer i ever bought. Apart from the fact that it's the first that's glued together and then they started soldering everything on the logic board.
The M1 is a new kind of cookie and totally understandable they fused all in one SoC. But why not use a socket of some sort?

Regulations to make tech repairable/suited for maintenance is no 'silly dream' it's a necessity on a planet with scarce resources.

Apple did an outstanding job with the first gen. SE that is still very repairable and on the most current iOS.

There's no wrong-doing in a law that forces big tech to be less monopolistic and gives customers from all wind directions and all levels of prosperity the possibility to get the most out of the devices they own. Stating otherwise is arrogant and ignorant consumerism.

 

[CarlJ]

But what's your point? A high tech phone can be a phone that is complex and waterproof and durable because degrading parts can be switched.
The tires on a car can be changed because they degrade over time. As that is - as of 2022 - the current state of things high tech cars give you that option. A battery is a degrading part, that should be easily replaceable.
That's the right to repair

The battery is easy to replace, with the right tools, which Apple is providing. Putting in a door to a battery compartment, sealed with #2 philips-head screws, to make it "easily replaceable" would make the phone a lot bigger, thicker, and less reliable. The phone gets carried/used for many thousands of hours, and replacing the battery takes perhaps an hour, if the phone ever needs it. I'm much happier having a design that optimizes for the many thousands of hours of use rather than for the hour it takes to replace the battery. Cutting that hour down to five minutes with a screwdriver doesn't seem like a huge win to me.

Now, if the battery needed replacing every couple of weeks, then, sure, optimize the phone for battery replacement, at the expense of making it a little worse of an experience to use, the entire rest of the time.

 

[CarlJ]

The "right to repair" should be about Apple (and others) producing devices that are not purposefully constructed in such a way as to make it unnecessarily difficult to repair them.

Lol, Apple isn't going out of their way to make the phone hard to repair, no matter how often people like you insist that to be true without any direct evidence, they're going out of their way to make the phone reliable and small and possible to assemble in quantities on the order of half a million phones a day. You keep envisioning them sitting around saying, "how can we make this harder for people to repair", when what they're really saying is, "is this still sufficiently repairable with the proper equipment in the relatively rare cases where repair is needed, and does the design compromise reliability, size constraints and water resistance and such". You make the mistake of thinking you even show up on their radar. No one at Apple is sitting around with a monocle and a Persian cat, cackling and saying, "how can we screw people out of repairing their phone", it's not worth it to them to waste time doing that.

 

[jav6454]

It's really disappointing...

The "right to repair" should not be this.

The "right to repair" should be about Apple (and others) producing devices that are not purposefully constructed in such a way as to make it unnecessarily difficult to repair them.

That's what "right to repair" should mean, and it's what Apple appears to be ignoring, given the way that this program has been rolled out. Perhaps at this point, it is actually in "good faith", because to replace a battery / etc on their current line up does require all this crap - but what we need are companies that can think beyond their shareholders, and produce goods that don't abide planned obsolescence...

All devices become complex as they become smaller and slimmed down. Furthermore, the more you add features regarding hardware, the more you increase its complexity. It's a cycle.

For you to have the current iPhone, see how much space the cameras need. It is illogical to think Apple or any other manufacturer builds and designs a device to be tamper proof. If Apple were against right to repair, they wouldn't even consider kits as these.

 

[rezenclowd3]

I hope someone copies these tools

 

[cosmichobo]

Lol, ... No one at Apple is sitting around with a monocle and a Persian cat, cackling and saying, "how can we screw people out of repairing their phone", it's not worth it to them to waste time doing that.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but "encouraging" people to replace their iPhone every 1-2 years is absolutely a goal of Apple. Even the price of a replacement battery is a huge indicator of this. You're looking at around 5-10% of the purchase price, just to get a new battery. For people who own their iPhones via a payment plan (ie 24 months), the cost of getting the battery replaced could be twice as much as their monthly payment.

When Apple were essentially forced into doing $29 battery replacements a few years ago, millions of people jumped up and took advantage of the offer, because it made the option affordable. (And Apple were predicted to have lost billions in new phone sales.) There's evidence that Apple is painfully aware what happens when customers can cheaply replace their iPhone batteries.

 

[adb1973]

@CarlJ is making the same unproven statements he is accusing people pro RTR of. Based on what I see from their marketing it's really focused on 1-2y cycles. Apart from some exemptions Apple holds back on technology updates and depreciates products earlier that technically necessary.

Now, is that 'a shame'?
That really depends on where you are coming from. It's a company that wants to make as much profit as they can for as long as they can. Some may not oppose our even really endorse that.

I'm not in that paradigm. For me the best companies are those who create profit by giving as much added value to their products as they can and -at the same time - produce as durable/environmentally friendly as possible. I'm not a shareholder value/maximized profit believer because I've seen that 'hollow out' companies, labor rights and the environment.

Right to repair in my view belongs to maximized value and Apple really is NOT embracing it (2020 M1 MacBook Air is an exception, used as a proof of concept).

What i DO see as 'in conflict with RtR' is privacy and safety. Easy accessible devices can also be easily tampered with.

It's a complicated balance but absolutely one on which Apple chooses 'what's best for Apple'. That obviously comes as no surprise, that's why we need regulations...

 

[Sowelu]

This is beyond ridiculous. Just take your phone to Apple for a battery swap. It's not that expensive, and in some cases if your battery prematurely dies (not that far) out of warranty, they often stand by their products and don't charge you (or gouge you) for the repair.

I think a more realistic option and approach would've been for Apple to extend the battery warranty to two years out of the box, without the need for AppleCare+ (which would still be offered for accidental and extended coverage). And/or, reduce the cost of battery and display repairs. Allowing average customers to tinker with their devices is not a great idea, and will most likely cause more damage to them.

All the 'right to repair', 'sideloading' (and similar) outcries coming from the masses makes me miss the days when Apple wasn't as huge, and appealed to a more niche crowd. A hottake, I know.

 

[adb1973]

The niche crowd had machines that were relatively simple to repair, had actual zif sockets and were as beautiful on the inside as on the outside. And at least partly user serviceable.

I bet the complaining started exactly there in that very niche of yours...

 

[rezenclowd3]

^Nope. I revel in difficult repairs/mods. One fun one was ~600hrs of work to figure out how a car engine ecu worked so that I could disable the theft security, along with other checks so that the paired engine could be installed into any car. That ~600hrs was just for the ECU, does not include wiring non-mating chassis wiring to engine wiring, or figuring out that some stuff could not be coded out and needed to modify the chassis side to fix IE is door closed all the way, because if not, car will not get out of park, and if manual, will not rev past 3800rpm for an engine that went to 8k.

I fix things because I enjoy it. Cost is not always a factor, nor is the time.

There is a whole community that does this. Check hackaday for example.

For me the problem lies in Apples pricing and FORCING PSPs/AASPs to do it for ~$20 when the shop should be charging minimum $80+ for half an hour of work plus the parts sale which they can markup more.

Hell when Apple started doing appointments, we had already been doing that for over 10 years. Then Apple wanted us to do it in 15min intervals like they did, where we also allow walk-ins with no appointment, because appointments always disappoint. The whole Apple backend was a time-waster. We took care of repairs faster, more efficiently but at a premium price that our rep told us to hide.

So here is me, big middle finger to Apple. However I do love how my stock is doing ;-)

 

[ST Dog]

All devices become complex as they become smaller and slimmed down. Furthermore, the more you add features regarding hardware, the more you increase its complexity. It's a cycle.

Some of these people should view some watch repair videos the small compact ladies watches of the 50s and 60s that are 3/4 inch in diameter.

Big hobbyist group out there because professional service is hard to find and expensive now.

IPhone service is simple in comparison.
(I'm working on a larger and simpler pocket watch)

 

[jav6454]

Some of these people should view some watch repair videos the small compact ladies watches of the 50s and 60s that are 3/4 inch in diameter.

Big hobbyist group out there because professional service is hard to find and expensive now.

IPhone service is simple in comparison.
(I'm working on a larger and simpler pocket watch)

People fail to appreciate the complexity of stuff and take difficulty as a sign of a company automatically acting in bad faith.

 

[adb1973]

Some people fail to appreciate the simplicity of stuff and take ease of use as a sign of a company being lazy 😏

 

[ST Dog]

Some people fail to appreciate the simplicity of stuff and take ease of use as a sign of a company being lazy 😏

Those watches are very easy to use despite the complexity inside. Wind a knob, pull knob out and turn to set time. Easier than many digital watches and clocks.

Even a day/date complication is a lot of parts and added complexity, but simple to use.

It's just interesting how many think something like a phone is complicated and hard to repair without thinking (knowing?) about the complex devices of the past.

IPhones with all the modules are much easier to repair than many phones. The biggest issue has been getting quality parts. I see this program as a step forward with some parts. Now to offer more of those modules. Charge port anyone. A mechanical port that wears and will fail eventually just as batteries degrade and fail.

 

[rezenclowd3]

Snip

 

[dsut4392]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but "encouraging" people to replace their iPhone every 1-2 years is absolutely a goal of Apple. Even the price of a replacement battery is a huge indicator of this. You're looking at around 5-10% of the purchase price, just to get a new battery. For people who own their iPhones via a payment plan (ie 24 months), the cost of getting the battery replaced could be twice as much as their monthly payment.

When Apple were essentially forced into doing $29 battery replacements a few years ago, millions of people jumped up and took advantage of the offer, because it made the option affordable. (And Apple were predicted to have lost billions in new phone sales.) There's evidence that Apple is painfully aware what happens when customers can cheaply replace their iPhone batteries.

Based on my own experience, I don't believe Apple are designing obsolescence through battery life into their products, and given the cost of replacing a battery it's highly unlikely to be a profit-centre. My iPhone 7 battery is still fine, and I bought it in January 2017 and I used it as my only phone until Sept 2021.

I do believe that apples design choices that make iphones a PITA to disassemble and repair have added significant value to me. I replaced the 7 because the audio processor on it died, so it wasn't indestructible - but it had survived years of abuse that a phone designed for repairability would not have. The audio died the day after a weekend whitewater rescue course during which the phone was in an outer pocket of my PFD and would have spent hours submerged (I carried it as a camera, with a wrist strap attached to a go-pro mount stuck on the back of a regular bumper case). This was far from a one-off use case, I routinely used the phone that way over the preceding 4 years, and it had survived multiple weekend and week long river and sea kayaking trips with long periods of immersion in salt and fresh water (both tropical and snow-melt rivers), regular disinfection with 70% alcohol, washing in the sink with dishwashing detergent, trips to the Sahara desert in 45 degree heat, jungles of Borneo in 100% humidity, -18 degrees in the snow in Japan ...

 

[adb1973]

Those watches are very easy to use despite the complexity inside.

I'm with you!
And correct me if I'm wrong but i have not seen any glue on my 200m water resistant diver watch. With a multitude of sensors. And the battery is quite easy to replace retaining the water resistance 😏😄

 

[H2SO4]

Seemed like you were arguing against a layman making repairs.

Perhaps I misunderstood.

The thread is full of people that are arguing against users doing phone repairs, yet any schmuck can go to AutoZone for brake parts and a $20 tool kit.

Na. Maybe I came across poorly.
I’m all for the layman doing repairs. I do see the point Apple are making though.
I do a lot of repairs myself. Really and truly the first part is homework. Do your homework.
I always get repair manuals where possible to verify specs. Also I check YouTube for a visual aid as to what to do and finally I buy the tools.

If you fail to prepare, prepare to fail as my old boss would say.

 

[adb1973]

....I routinely used the phone that way over the preceding 4 years, and it had survived multiple weekend and week long river and sea kayaking trips with long periods of immersion in salt and fresh water (both tropical and snow-melt rivers), regular disinfection with 70% alcohol, washing in the sink with dishwashing detergent, trips to the Sahara desert in 45 degree heat, jungles of Borneo in 100% humidity, -18 degrees in the snow in Japan ...

Nice use case!

I don't believe the planned obsolescence through battery too. I do believe Apple:
- makes repairs harder than technically necessary. It's no factor in their r&d to a level that's ... not friendly.
- likes to keep doing repairs themselves for profit reasons.
- does not invent on repairability but on non tampering and non repairability
- depreciates devices earlier than necessary through OS 'updates' and making it impossible to go back. (That's also for anti-tampering but some devices really start underperforming because of the software really is not optimized for those devices anymore. Without leaving the consumer the possibility to go to an optimized former version.)

It's not state that there is a lot of bad intend, there is always the choice for max profit and laziness/carelessness too.