Testing Stage Manager on a 2018 iPad Pro With the New iPadOS 16.1 Beta

[landi.erik]

Does anyone with the latest beta on iPadOS 16.1 and an iPad Pro 2018/2020 get display scaling (screen zoom) options? I’ve seen that some have the option but others not, and it was not announced as a feature coming with Stage Manager.

Yes I have display scaling working on my iPad Pro 11in 2020 running iPadOS 16.1 (20B5056e). To enable go to “Display & Brightness“ -> Display Zoom (all the way at bottom) and change the zoom option. Default is “Default” second option now available is “More Space”.

Now back to the large discussion, Im glad that the developer feedback requests that those of us who called on apple to change this software decision/optimization were accepted and allowed for more users to experience stage manager feature. I will say the limitation of the external display is still puzzling, and im wondering what if any changes will be made to how non m1 iPads will display content. As of iOS 15 I could connect my 4K LG ultrafine display over a usb-c to 4K HDMI adapter (60Hz) but had those cursed black bars on the side of the display (unless running video or an app coded with external display support).

Again I think it goes to show you that when a community has enough pull and resources (even outside of apple, full time hackintosher here) we can get some traction.

 

[Monsieur Arykovère]

The issue on the iPad Pro 2018 is the low RAM (4GB) and storage that can't do the memory swap needed for 8 apps to run smoothly side by side. And when the RAM is so low, more and more memory swap is required, which thrashes the already inadequate storage.

What Apple has done wrong is sell the iPad Pro at pro prices in 2018 with such crappy RAM and storage, when they probably knew they'd be releasing a feature like this in a few years. It was greedy. But they're not lying about Stage Manager.

You can't compare RAM requirements to software from 2008. And you can't tell me that the computer from 2006 or 2008 could run 8 modern iPad apps side by side with the same speed and responsiveness that users expect from an iPad in 2022.

MacBooks with about 2GB of RAM could do things like this in 2009. iPad apps are still not as capable as many Mac apps from back then, so I really don’t think the RAM is an issue. I mean, if you’re running a bunch of “pro apps” at the same time, maybe it’s an issue, but I don’t think there are more than 4 or so “pro apps” available for the iPad in the first place, and I also don’t think iPad users use those apps that much in general, especially not at the same time.

 

[teh_hunterer]

And the post from the moderator right below yours states their is software that allows external display support on the older iPad Pro’s. It’s nothing more then marketing ad sales tactics by Apple. And Craig was pretty adamant that only the M1 could do stage Manager in his old interviews. Of course he states 8 apps etc as that was one of its selling points, they are always very careful with their words as they are salesman at the end of the day, but Applemdid claim only M1 could run Stage Manager, doesn’t matter how many apps, that is what they said. I absolutetly stand behind my post, it’s Apple, it’s locked software features for purely marketing and sales purposes.
Maybe they can only run 4 apps, but they can run external displays. So we’ve had Apple claim only the M1 could run Stage Manager, and older iPad Pro’s don’t work with an external display?

You're very headstrong about this but you haven't really engaged with the details.

External display support is not and never was the problem. Nobody is claiming that the A12X or A12Z or A14 can't run an external display. The issue is the number of apps that can run side by side, eating into RAM and virtual memory. Apple didn't allow it for the older ones when it was 8 apps, and now they're allowing it when it is restricted to 4 apps.

You can say "doesn't matter how many apps" as much as you want but it is precisely the amount of apps that is the issue. Apple very well could have put Stage Manager on the older iPads and disabled the internal display and just enabled the external display, which again would be 4 apps. Clearly they've chosen not to do this as they thought it would be too complicated.

Maybe they'll change their mind and let you use the external display with the internal display disabled - but it's going to be capped at 4 apps most likely, as it is the number of apps running side by side which is the issue. If you want to argue against that you're going to have to bring up some actual details.

 

[teh_hunterer]

MacBooks with about 2GB of RAM could do things like this in 2009. iPad apps are still not as capable as many Mac apps from back then, so I really don’t think the RAM is an issue. I mean, if you’re running a bunch of “pro apps” at the same time, maybe it’s an issue, but I don’t think there are more than 4 or so “pro apps” available for the iPad in the first place, and I also don’t think iPad users use those apps that much in general, especially not at the same time.

MacBooks from 2009 could run 8 2022 iPad apps side by side with the same speed and responsiveness as the current iPads?

I very much doubt that 2009 MacBook could even run 8 modern browser tabs with the speed and responsiveness as the current iPads let alone 8 apps.

I bet if you actually went and got a MacBook from 2009 and loaded up 8 apps and started using them all, you'd be surprised how slow it actually is.

Look at it this way - when is the last time Apple sold a Mac with 4GB of RAM and phone-class storage that wasn't designed for virtual memory (the iPads and iPhone have never had virtual memory)? They don't do that because it wouldn't be an acceptable experience.

 

[chucker23n1]

I'm glad this is happening. And really tired of the manufactured "limitations" from Apple. This is no different then back in the day with the iPhone 3G not having video recording capabilities while the 3GS did. Even though we all know the 3G could hardware could definitely handle it and it was PROVEN by jailbreakers pretty quickly.

Exactly, this is no different. Back then, the iPhone 3G's SoC and camera were underpowered to do video well. The 3GS had a faster SoC with more RAM, and a much better (though still not great) camera.

And now, Apple is arguing that Stage Manager won't be as good on older iPads Pro. Which is true.

 

[chucker23n1]

Regarding your gripe, I commented on why I brought it up in a portion of my post you deliberately omitted in your response.

Arguing that "much older hardware can drive external displays; why can't a 2018 iPad Pro" is little different than "word processors have existed in the 1970s; why does the current Microsoft Word require so much RAM?". (Or, to reduce it even further, "back in my day, an entire operating system fit on a floppy". OK, cool. You know what, though? It was pixelated, crashy, and doing anything at all required you to wait.)

Yes, the basic functionality of multiple windows from different apps has been done before, but the details have changed considerably.

 

[chucker23n1]

MacBooks with about 2GB of RAM could do things like this in 2009. iPad apps are still not as capable as many Mac apps from back then, so I really don’t think the RAM is an issue. I mean, if you’re running a bunch of “pro apps” at the same time, maybe it’s an issue, but I don’t think there are more than 4 or so “pro apps” available for the iPad in the first place, and I also don’t think iPad users use those apps that much in general, especially not at the same time.

That MacBook is pushing far fewer pixels.

 

[OnawaAfrica]

Stage Manager is 2006 technology. It'll run on anything if they allow it. But, gotta sell new iPads.

Second opinion: If an ancient Intel processor can multitask better than every iPad currently on the market, that pretty much guarantees that Stage Manager "limitations" are just product-pushing tactics.

MacOS Ventura’s best feature is 16 years in the making

Apple introduced Stage Manager with MacOS Ventura, but it seems the feature may not be as new as we thought -- it's been in the works for 16 years.

www.digitaltrends.com

do u think they use old code from 2006? no its a completely new code based on modern Technologies. It shows that u not familiar with Software Development

 

[Pezimak]

You're very headstrong about this but you haven't really engaged with the details.

External display support is not and never was the problem. Nobody is claiming that the A12X or A12Z or A14 can't run an external display. The issue is the number of apps that can run side by side, eating into RAM and virtual memory. Apple didn't allow it for the older ones when it was 8 apps, and now they're allowing it when it is restricted to 4 apps.

You can say "doesn't matter how many apps" as much as you want but it is precisely the amount of apps that is the issue. Apple very well could have put Stage Manager on the older iPads and disabled the internal display and just enabled the external display, which again would be 4 apps. Clearly they've chosen not to do this as they thought it would be too complicated.

Maybe they'll change their mind and let you use the external display with the internal display disabled - but it's going to be capped at 4 apps most likely, as it is the number of apps running side by side which is the issue. If you want to argue against that you're going to have to bring up some actual details.

Some have claimed it cannot run external displays even in this thread, hence the moderators and others replies. You may have missed that. And their is nothing stopping Apple from limiting older iPad Pro’s to 4 apps and still allowing external display support, or allow it but with stage manager turned off, instead of locking the feature out all together from older models from what I can tell. So Apple seems to have put its flag in the sand on external displays.
Sorry but Apple was c,ear in its original messaging with M1 iPad Pro’s and the features only they could run, which has turned out not to be the case.

 

[teh_hunterer]

Some have claimed it cannot run external displays even in this thread, hence the moderators and others replies. You may have missed that. And their is nothing stopping Apple from limiting older iPad Pro’s to 4 apps and still allowing external display support, or allow it but with stage manager turned off, instead of locking the feature out all together from older models from what I can tell. So Apple seems to have put its flag in the sand on external displays.
Sorry but Apple was c,ear in its original messaging with M1 iPad Pro’s and the features only they could run, which has turned out not to be the case.

The reason they said it can't run stage manager is that stage manager originally allowed 8 apps. That's what stage manager was.

They've now modified what stage manager means.

Yes they could enable external displays by limiting it to 4 apps. I hope they do, to be honest. Stage manager sucks on the iPad display anyway.

But I still don't know what lie you think Apple has been caught in.

 

[Pezimak]

The reason they said it can't run stage manager is that stage manager originally allowed 8 apps. That's what stage manager was.

They've now modified what stage manager means.

Yes they could enable external displays by limiting it to 4 apps. I hope they do, to be honest. Stage manager sucks on the iPad display anyway.

But I still don't know what lie you think Apple has been caught in.

The fact they claimed only the M1 iPad Pro could do Stage Manage, it makes no difference weather they claimed 8 apps or not, the fact remains originally Apple stated only the M1 iPad Pro could run it. Which is false as we now know, as I said marketing and sales tactics which in this case backfired on them. Don’t get me wrong I think the iPad Pro M1 is the best device Apple has made in years, use mine every single day and I love it, but the 2018 and 2020 iPads are equally as good and it was nothing but spin from Apple to software lock those models from features originally.

 

[teh_hunterer]

The fact they claimed only the M1 iPad Pro could do Stage Manage, it makes no difference weather they claimed 8 apps or not, the fact remains originally Apple stated only the M1 iPad Pro could run it. Which is false as we now know, as I said marketing and sales tactics which in this case backfired on them. Don’t get me wrong I think the iPad Pro M1 is the best device Apple has made in years, use mine every single day and I love it, but the 2018 and 2020 iPads are equally as good and it was nothing but spin from Apple to software lock those models from features originally.

But only the M1 iPad Pro can do the Stage Manager they originally announced. That has not changed, so again, what exactly did they lie about?

 

[Bearxor]

I like on my gen 3 pro. I am using multi windows reading news and watching storm chasing feed in Florida and texting people much easier for me to use than split screen which I personally do not like and seldom use.

View attachment 2082971View attachment 2082972View attachment 2082973View attachment 2082974

Yeah I just disagree. I just see a lot of water space. I turned it off.

I like on my gen 3 pro. I am using multi windows reading news and watching storm chasing feed in Florida and texting people much easier for me to use than split screen which I personally do not like and seldom use.

View attachment 2082971View attachment 2082972View attachment 2082973View attachment 2082974

Yeah I just disagree. all I see is a lot of wasted space. I often have YouTube/Twitch playing in PiP, with messages or discord on the side and a web browser taking up most of the screen like this

i played around with it for a few hours but finally just turned it off. Ifi used my iPad worth an external monitor and the Smart Keyboard I might feel differently. but I’m glad they’ve given us older iPad owners the option!

 

[Pezimak]

But only the M1 iPad Pro can do the Stage Manager they originally announced. That has not changed, so again, what exactly did they lie about?

It’s exactly what you just stated? Apple stated ’only’ the M1 can run stage manager due to its memory system, that was the reason they gave for the older models not being able to run it. That was a lie obviously from a marketing and sales perspective as they have proved now the older iPads CAN run Stage Manager even with their ‘older’ memory systems, and it doesn’t matter how many apps they hold in the background, the fact is they stated older models would not run it. But it seems from huge backlash from their customer base they have changed that.
Not sure how many ways I can state this?

 

[NewUsername]

What about extension of stage manager to ipad air 4 then?
If A12 can run it, why couldn’t an A14????? Both (Ipad pro 2018 & air 4) come with 4 Gb of ram.

It’s a bit of a long shot, but it wouldn’t surprise me if next month, Apple announces the iPad 10 with the A14 chip and at the same time announces that the new iPad will also get Stage Manager, as well as the iPad Air 4 since it also has the A14.

 

[teh_hunterer]

It’s exactly what you just stated? Apple stated ’only’ the M1 can run stage manager due to its memory system, that was the reason they gave for the older models not being able to run it. That was a lie obviously from a marketing and sales perspective as they have proved now the older iPads CAN run Stage Manager even with their ‘older’ memory systems, and it doesn’t matter how many apps they hold in the background, the fact is they stated older models would not run it. But it seems from huge backlash from their customer base they have changed that.
Not sure how many ways I can state this?

When you say non-M1 iPads can run Stage Manager now, do you mean the original implementation that allowed 8 apps to run side by side, or the revised implementation that's capped at 4 apps running side by side?

Why do you keep saying it doesn't matter how many apps? It's precisely what matters, and anyone who is looking at this issue in a remotely serious manner should be able to understand that.

They said it couldn't run at a level of performance that was acceptable. They then cut the amount of apps it could do in half so it could perform at an acceptable level. Again, tell me how they lied.

Do you think they lied because you don't understand that when Apple was saying older iPads couldn't run stage manager, they were talking about stage manager the feature that is capable of running 8 apps side by side? I could try further to explain this to you if you have trouble comprehending.

The version of stage manager Apple claimed older iPads couldn't run is a different version than the one they eventually gave the older iPads. Hope that helps you on your journey of understanding.

 

[chucker23n1]

it doesn’t matter how many apps they hold in the background,

Of course it does. The argument was that you wouldn't reach a reasonable level of performance. For that, it makes a difference how many resources a feature takes. If Stage Manager only showed one window at a time, it'd also run on the 2011 iPad 2. But since it was originally stated to show up to eight windows (four each per screen), well, that's quite a different amount of resources required.

So, now they compromised on: four windows on the A12X, and eight windows on the M1. We can quibble over "I bet they could've also done five windows on the A12X! Or three windows on the 2015 iPad Pro!", but that's silly. Of course there's a cutoff.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Yeah, with all the fighting about why the older iPads aren't getting it, the question as to whether Stage Manager is actually good or not fell into the background.

At least in its current form, you're right, it sucks. I tried it for about 15 minutes and gave up. And then I kinda laughed how everyone was fighting about this feature when if you actually try it you probably won't ever use it again.

But I do hope they improve it. Just give me macOS style windows on the external display.

The only thing I prefer about it is that full screen iOS apps like Instagram don’t take over the entire screen. Otherwise, still preferring Slide Over, BUT will give it a try again after the next beta. One common use for me (Safari side by side with another app and Notes and Messages available via Slide Over) is the one I’ll be looking to replace. If they release a 15 inch iPad (so that I can have a 12.9 “window” plus other stuff, that’d get a smile out of me with Stage Manager.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I watched the video and saw it in action, but can someone explain to me what the point is without the external display? How is this different to split screen mode or that mobile sideview mode?

It’s different in that it sorta provides access to 4 apps instead of the three you can manage with Slide Over and split screen. Which admittedly, isn’t all that earth shattering. I can see why Apple figured to tie Stage Manager to external screen use because that makes it much more effective.

Having Stage Manager as a feature by itself without the external monitor support? Currently, it’s a less smooth, smaller, (Side by Side and Slide Over)+1.

 

[840quadra]

Arguing that "much older hardware can drive external displays; why can't a 2018 iPad Pro" is little different than "word processors have existed in the 1970s; why does the current Microsoft Word require so much RAM?". (Or, to reduce it even further, "back in my day, an entire operating system fit on a floppy". OK, cool. You know what, though? It was pixelated, crashy, and doing anything at all required you to wait.)

Yes, the basic functionality of multiple windows from different apps has been done before, but the details have changed considerably.

It’s a fair comparison to look at what much more limited hardware could do decades ago, that far more advanced hardware can’t now. Especially when it appears to be an artificial software limitation.

We continue to disagree but I am fine with that.

 

[chucker23n1]

It’s a fair comparison to look at what much more limited hardware could do decades ago, that far more advanced hardware can’t now. Especially when it appears to be an artificial software limitation.

We continue to disagree but I am fine with that.

Here’s what’s gonna happen. Sooner or later, a jailbreak of 16.1 comes out. Then someone patches Stage Manager to also work on older iPads. Then some people will say “a-ha! It was artificial after all!” and make videos of how it totally works.

Then everyone gets to look at the videos and be a judge whether that’s a decent experience. Some will think it’s fine. Many will think it’s not a very Apple-like smooth experience.

Look, people talk on these very forums all the time about how iPads don’t have enough RAM to switch between big apps. You’ll see that exacerbated in Stage Manager. That you can find an older computer running a different OS with different circumstances that also displays multiple windows doesn’t take away from that.

 

[teh_hunterer]

It’s a fair comparison to look at what much more limited hardware could do decades ago, that far more advanced hardware can’t now. Especially when it appears to be an artificial software limitation.

We continue to disagree but I am fine with that.

That limited hardware decades ago couldn't do what the A12X/Z can do - ie run 2022 apps smoothly with the responsiveness of modern iPads.

If you loaded up a computer from that long ago and tried to just run some modern browser tabs, you'd be surprised how slow it is. Then try to make it run 8 modern iPad apps side by side - it's not going to cope and provide an acceptable level of performance.

Another way to look at it is, does Apple sell any Mac today with 4GB of RAM and phone- class storage (that doesn't support fast memory swap)? They don't, because it wouldn't perform adequately running a whole bunch of modern apps side by side, and Apple would rightfully be pilloried for it.

The iPad feels like a magical device, but it completely lacked memory swap, handled RAM allocation like the iPhone, and was sold at pro prices with phone hardware. As good as Apple silicon has been for years, if you don't include desktop class RAM and storage, it might not handle desktop class scenarios like running 8 apps side by side. And the iPad has never run 8 apps side by side in its whole history until the M1.

 

[840quadra]

That limited hardware decades ago couldn't do what the A12X/Z can do - ie run 2022 apps smoothly with the responsiveness of modern iPads.

If you loaded up a computer from that long ago and tried to just run some modern browser tabs, you'd be surprised how slow it is. Then try to make it run 8 modern iPad apps side by side - it's not going to cope and provide an acceptable level of performance.

Another way to look at it is, does Apple sell any Mac today with 4GB of RAM and phone- class storage (that doesn't support fast memory swap)? They don't, because it wouldn't perform adequately running a whole bunch of modern apps side by side, and Apple would rightfully be pilloried for it.

The iPad feels like a magical device, but it completely lacked memory swap, handled RAM allocation like the iPhone, and was sold at pro prices with phone hardware. As good as Apple silicon has been for years, if you don't include desktop class RAM and storage, it might not handle desktop class scenarios like running 8 apps side by side. And the iPad has never run 8 apps side by side in its whole history until the M1.

what are you on about? Where in any of my posts did I claim a 2002 era G4 could run modern iPad apps?

Again… I stated with the limited specs “of their time” they could run dual discrete 1080p displays without issues.

The pre M1 iPads are limited from even doing a single external discrete 1080p display, let alone anything modern such as 4k. To me it seems nonsensical and an artificial limit considering 3rd party app developers have already proven it is possible.

I am not, never would say a G4 from 2002 is more powerful than a 2018 iPad Pro. I have Zero idea where you picked up that I was suggesting such an absurd suggestion.

 

[chucker23n1]

I guess you coulllllld use the side of a G4 as a tablet if you use dry-erase marker. Fairly large surface, too.

 

[Mattlike]

Not working on my 2020 11" iPad Pro. Also this beta has made the mail app, and safari always crash. :/