TextBlade Update: An Inside Look at Production Troubles and New Info on Shipping Estimates

[dabigkahuna]

I got tired of this rubbish vaporware and got a refund. Now I have a lovely folding Microsoft keyboard that is great quality and works.

BTW, I tried the Microsoft folding keyboard. Nice device and all, but it is exactly the kind of thing I expect when getting a portable keyboard - fine CONSIDERING it is a portable keyboard where most aren't good at all. But would not remotely consider it to be something I'd rather use than a standard keyboard. With the TB, it is an obvious improvement over regular keyboards while also being portable. IOW, the portability is almost a bonus!

From the reports of other testers - ones who have specialty needs - there may be only very unique situations where a regular keyboard has an advantage.

 

[Ergates-thi-Ant]

It's vaporware, so the point is moot. I doubt very much at all that a TextBlade will ever come close to the comfort and performance of my main mechanical keyboard. Then again, it costs considerably more than a textblade, largely because it's quality engineering that is well understood, well designed, and has years of reliability.

 

[Night Spring]

It's vaporware, so the point is moot. I doubt very much at all that a TextBlade will ever come close to the comfort and performance of my main mechanical keyboard. Then again, it costs considerably more than a textblade, largely because it's quality engineering that is well understood, well designed, and has years of reliability.

How much is your keyboard? Textblades are priced at $99, and to me, that seems about average for a well-made keyboard.

 

[dabigkahuna]

I doubt very much at all that a TextBlade will ever come close to the comfort and performance of my main mechanical keyboard.

Well, I don't know what keyboard you are using and even if I did, the odds are against me ever having tried the same one. And even if I did, what one person likes, another person won't. But let's consider this some more anyway.

Without question, your fingers move less on a TB. That generally translates to more comfort as I never heard anyone say they felt more comfortable going for keys they have to reach further for! So that leaves us with the basic feel and, just to minimize other factors, typing on the home row. Can't say you'll like it better, but I do and, from the comments of other testers, that seems to be virtually a universal opinion. I think someone said it didn't make much difference to them, but I don't recall anyone saying they liked the feel of a standard keyboard better. Certainly not more than one.

I'd say that is a noteworthy accomplishment considering how important individual preferences can be.

Don't know what you mean by performance. If you are talking about speed, I'm pretty decent but not a high speed 100+ wpm typist. But I can do over 60 consistently, a fair amount over 70 and on a good day, break 80 (rare!). And do it at 97% or better accuracy. Usually 98 or 99%. Before getting the TB, I was doing the same tests on my Apple wireless keyboard many times. Usually in the 50's and occasionally in the 60s. Percent accuracy was at least 97% but not often much above that.

So, my performance went up - after a brief down turn as I had to adjust to it.

I don't know if you mean other performance factors, but if so, I'll add that I can connect within a couple seconds with up to 6 devices. Or, as I also do, have one of those jumps be to the same device but with a different key layout for special needs. I can customize almost every key. I can do simple macros. Etc.

And I can easily carry it anywhere. I have never heard of any portable keyboard that is so light, so customizable, with a feel that makes me prefer using it rather than, "this is pretty good for a portable keyboard".

it costs considerably more than a textblade, largely because it's quality engineering that is well understood, well designed, and has years of reliability.

Obviously a new product has no time to know how well it will hold up. But it is quality engineering on the TB. I don't think the problems I've seen to date are about bad engineering. I think they have to do mostly with using a new technological approach - contrasted with your "engineering that is well understood". After all, even that technology wasn't always well understood. I recall manual typewriters which would easily get keys stuck together if hit too fast! Over time, we learned and made better systems - because eventually that tech became "well understood".

So, you MAY have a keyboard that is superior to the TB - I can't tell. But you may not.

Of course, you have one advantage - you actually have it but I think that is the only definite advantage. Certainly an important one.

 

[Ergates-thi-Ant]

How much is your keyboard? Textblades are priced at $99, and to me, that seems about average for a well-made keyboard.

It's a Ducky mechanical keyboard, and is not the most expensive and highest quality keyboard. Perhaps around $200 US? I'm not sure exactly what the US price is.

It may not be small and portable like a TextBlade supposedly will be, but for its intended purpose on a desktop, it's pretty much unbeatable by something like a TextBlade.

I'm not a hater of the IDEA of a TextBlade. I stuck with my preorder for 20 months or so, after all. I'm simply sick and tired of the ******** from the company. Their behaviour has been inexcusable.
[doublepost=1475491446][/doublepost]p.s. Hello Rolanbek!

 

[dabigkahuna]

It's a Ducky mechanical keyboard, and is not the most expensive and highest quality keyboard. Perhaps around $200 US? I'm not sure exactly what the US price is.

It may not be small and portable like a TextBlade supposedly will be, but for its intended purpose on a desktop, it's pretty much unbeatable by something like a TextBlade.

I don't know which Ducky you have. I looked at some. I can see some advantages simply with so many keys, depending on individual need. But if the TB catches on, I could see lots of variations of the concept which would do the same. You could start with the basic design, but locked in place like a standard keyboard - which means you start off more compact and easier access to normal typing stuff. And then you could still surround it with all the other keys you need and end up with a smaller keyboard anyway.

I would be interested in folks who have upscale keyboards that are known for their excellent feel to make a comparison to the TB. I've had good keyboards, but never spent a couple hundred for one! But the TB feel is better than anything else I tried even if I just base it on feel.

I'd also be interested in what particular things you feel are unbeatable, since that is going to depend on individual usage.

 

[Ergates-thi-Ant]

"The TextBlade is an obvious improvement over regular keyboards" No, it's not. It is currently vaporware, and it's extremely unlikely to be better than a mechanical keyboard. It might well turn out to be the best portable keyboard, and somewhat approach the ability of a regular keyboard, but that is all currently speculation with no product out there right now.

 

[Night Spring]

@dabigkahuna
On the textblade, how do you get feedback for which key you hit? I mean, on a regular keyboard, I know the difference between hitting keys on the home row vs hitting keys on the row above or below that, because I move my fingers. Since on the textblade, the three rows are on the same key, and if I understand correctly, you pick different rows by hitting different parts of the key? So how confident are you that you've hit the correct part of the key without checking the output on screen to confirm?

Also, how does the feel of textblade compare to flat keyboard covers like the Apple Amart Keyboard and the ones Microsoft makes for the Surface?

 

[dabigkahuna]

"The TextBlade is an obvious improvement over regular keyboards" No, it's not. It is currently vaporware, and it's extremely unlikely to be better than a mechanical keyboard. It might well turn out to be the best portable keyboard, and somewhat approach the ability of a regular keyboard, but that is all currently speculation with no product out there right now.

Since I have one, it isn't speculation to me. But tell me, thy is it unlikely to be better than a mechanical keyboard? As I mentioned in a prior post, some mechanical keyboards have all kinds of keys which in SOME situations may be an advantage - though the layer system the TB uses actually cancels out most of them.

For my usage, I can only come up with one, very tiny, advantage for a regular keyboard. Well, maybe two.

 

[Night Spring]

But tell me, thy is it unlikely to be better than a mechanical keyboard?

I'm guessing touch and feel, hence my question about how you get feedback on the textblade about which letter you are typing.

 

[dabigkahuna]

On the textblade, how do you get feedback for which key you hit? I mean, on a regular keyboard, I know the difference between hitting keys on the home row vs hitting keys on the row above or below that, because I move my fingers. Since on the textblade, the three rows are on the same key, and if I understand correctly, you pick different rows by hitting different parts of the key? So how confident are you that you've hit the correct part of the key without checking the output on screen to confirm?

Also, how does the feel of textblade compare to flat keyboard covers like the Apple Amart Keyboard and the ones Microsoft makes for the Surface?

Good questions! And it is one of the possible advantages - but also disadvantages - of a mechanical keyboard. There are "wells" on the home row keys to help your feel, but probably most of the time your fingers are above them so you aren't constantly having that to help guide you. When first using it, you will almost certainly mistype because the reach is so much less (a good thing) and the actual angle of the keyblades may or may not be what you are used to. It gave me trouble for awhile since I never used an ergonomic design. One of my suggestions for the future was to let users change the angle. You can do it yourself in a couple ways, but it's a hack. They didn't seem real interested - feeling their research showed the "best" position. I had a hard time trying to get them to understand that what is best for most isn't necessarily the best for all and that some who learned to type the "wrong" way shouldn't be forced to change unless they want to. So, in some ways, they are doing an Apple approach in deciding what is best. But I still hope a future version will allow adjustments even though I've gotten used to it.

Anyway, for the other keys, you just get used to it quickly enough though there may still be times I mistype. I'll see the error and wonder if I goofed (my hands aren't always real steady at my age) or if the TB had a problem. Usually it is me but with the design, it is hard to test. I basically need to type and stop, without removing the finger from the key, when a mistake happens. That's a big testing challenge since the errors are intermittent, regardless of cause. But almost every time I getan error and have stopped, it was my mistake, not the TB.

The previous unit I had did have an issue on one keycap, giving me the wrong letter from time to time. It is believed it was a conductive contaminant (they have since made some sort of protection to help deal with that). I haven't seen it with my latest one. I could have taken off the keycap and cleaned it, but didn't want to mess with it.

I would say you will want to watch the screen output for some time though. I really don't know if this is an issue for others. Like I said, sometimes my fingers aren't very steady anyway. For others, they may have less need than I do.

As for feel, that is really tough to describe - for most keyboards. I think it feels fantastic. Just a pleasure to type on. I've spent a little time on the ipad keyboard and the Microsoft one. They are fine, but imo not even close to the TB. I don't know of any tester off-hand who feels differently. Maybe one felt it was no better or worse, but that's about it. Which impresses me since keyboard preferences are so individualized.

So, on the TB, if you do miss the key, it is a little harder to tell by feel if you hit the wrong part of a key. I can do it, but it isn't as obvious as hitting a totally different key. OTOH, the reduced movement seems to help hit the keys in the first place once you adjust.
[doublepost=1475522466][/doublepost]

I'm guessing touch and feel, hence my question about how you get feedback on the textblade about which letter you are typing.

I wouldn't say "feel". Only the reduced chance of not knowing if you missed a key if not looking at output. But most of that is temporary and the reduced movement is a huge plus. Thus a tiny, at most, advantage to a regular keyboard but also a considerable negative for a regular keyboard.
[doublepost=1475524628][/doublepost]

I'm guessing touch and feel, hence my question about how you get feedback on the textblade about which letter you are typing.

You might want to read this from the newest tester. Deals with your questions:

https://forum.waytools.com/t/first-impressions-from-idea2go/4733

 

[Teon]

How much is your keyboard? Textblades are priced at $99, and to me, that seems about average for a well-made keyboard.

$99 for keyboard it is a lot. This is a luxury, and for the money there must be special

 

[Night Spring]

You might want to read this from the newest tester. Deals with your questions:

https://forum.waytools.com/t/first-impressions-from-idea2go/4733

Thank you for the detailed answer, and especially for this link. It does sound Ike TB has the feel of a well made keyboard. It's too bad WayTools have taken so long to deliver this product, and I'm finding typing on the iPad screen good enough for my needs.

 

[dabigkahuna]

$99 for keyboard it is a lot. This is a luxury, and for the money there must be special

I agree, but then, how many cheaper keyboards can be used with multiple devices, switching in about 2 seconds among them? At a minimum, I'd have one for my computer and another for my main ipad. So, instead of buying two, I only need one - so average price per device is $50.

But then I can also use it with my iphone. I wouldn't buy a separate device for that - I'd just use the screen and suffer if I had to type a lot - but not I don't have to. Suddenly the keyboard, at least for me, is pretty cheap!
[doublepost=1475534056][/doublepost]

Thank you for the detailed answer, and especially for this link. It does sound Ike TB has the feel of a well made keyboard. It's too bad WayTools have taken so long to deliver this product, and I'm finding typing on the iPad screen good enough for my needs.

Actually, I appreciate being able to answer good questions!

Every negative I see about this device - as opposed to something like WT lack of good communication - seems to all be about the new tech approach. So while I get really frustrated with lack of general shipping, I'm not really surprised that there are delays. I spent a lot of time last night going over a problem with them - messages back and forth with them making some adjustments live (in the cloud) while I tested them. Supposed to be new firmware early this week to deal with it. Since we are asked not to talk about things until they've had a week to deal with any problem, I won't go into detail (I'm allowed to, but I think their request is very reasonable). But we get these things from time to time and work to solve them. Sometimes feels like whack-a-mole though! But, like I said, with the new approach this uses, it isn't a surprise to me.

I suspect, once they get this first one worked out, future versions will get progressively better and sooner because there will be fewer surprises.

 

[cult hero]

Without question, your fingers move less on a TB. That generally translates to more comfort as I never heard anyone say they felt more comfortable going for keys they have to reach further for! So that leaves us with the basic feel and, just to minimize other factors, typing on the home row. Can't say you'll like it better, but I do and, from the comments of other testers, that seems to be virtually a universal opinion. I think someone said it didn't make much difference to them, but I don't recall anyone saying they liked the feel of a standard keyboard better. Certainly not more than one.

This is why I'm still holding on. I put in an order about 18 months ago and have been pretty annoyed about how long the process has taken, however...

As a programmer, typing sucks. I regularly have to hit awkward keys with my pinky when touch-typing. I hate it. And I do have a very nice Filco mechanical keyboard. It's an improvement over the standard laptop keyboard but not nearly as great as the Cult of Mechanicus would have the world believe.

The placement of a lot of the special characters on the Textblade looks like a great idea. I really want to try it. And yes, less movement just seems great. I've been really excited about the product since it was originally announced. So... still waiting! Wasn't thrilled to see the 2 month window transform into a Q4 window.

I think the consensus is that they've been pretty terrible about keeping the customer base in the loop.

 

[dabigkahuna]

have been pretty annoyed about how long the process has taken

Can't disagree with that. I have one and I'm annoyed that general shipping hasn't started anyway. I just have the advantage that I can see reasons why.

I can't say how this will serve you for programming since that isn't my usage, but I've seen the reports of those who are and, for the most part, they seem happy. I can't follow their examples since I don't do it, but I think in some cases they've had to figure out workarounds that maybe aren't ideal, but there have been a lot of improvements in what the firmware lets you do now so I don't know if that is still the case. It may depend on the kind of programming.

Wasn't thrilled to see the 2 month window transform into a Q4 window.

Understood. But to be fair, I will point out that a lot of the critics kept saying WT shouldn't be doing monthly estimates that just keep getting pushed back - that they should do longer lead times. Personally, I see no real difference since, if this was applied in March of last year, we would just have had those longer lead times pushed back. So what does it matter? But, this is what they said they wanted and now it is that WT is doing. I just point this out to show that no matter how they do it - short of shipping - they are going to get criticized.

 

[cult hero]

Understood. But to be fair, I will point out that a lot of the critics kept saying WT shouldn't be doing monthly estimates that just keep getting pushed back - that they should do longer lead times. Personally, I see no real difference since, if this was applied in March of last year, we would just have had those longer lead times pushed back. So what does it matter? But, this is what they said they wanted and now it is that WT is doing. I just point this out to show that no matter how they do it - short of shipping - they are going to get criticized.

I was more annoyed with the prospect that it was a larger window, though I felt it was a more honest assessment. It's been shifting to "next month or the month after" for like... six months.

I haven't been vocal. I just check my order status and gripe to myself once a month. I just noticed activity on this thread tonight.

I'm really, really excited about his device, which is why I haven't withdrawn my order yet.

 

[Ergates-thi-Ant]

I was more annoyed with the prospect that it was a larger window, though I felt it was a more honest assessment. It's been shifting to "next month or the month after" for like... six months.

I haven't been vocal. I just check my order status and gripe to myself once a month. I just noticed activity on this thread tonight.

I'm really, really excited about his device, which is why I haven't withdrawn my order yet.

Actually, they've been doing that for 18 months to my knowledge. Liars.

 

[Ergates-thi-Ant]

dabigkahuna, your polarisation has become so extreme that you might as well be a paid marketing executive. A bit more balance would help your opinions carry some weight.

 

[dabigkahuna]

dabigkahuna, your polarisation has become so extreme that you might as well be a paid marketing executive. A bit more balance would help your opinions carry some weight.

I am balanced. Unless you think that means I have to agree with every attack on WT or every effort to put down the power of the TB!

What have I said that isn't accurate?

I've pointed out they are bad on communication. I've said they've had a lot of delays. I've said there may be certain special cases where a full sized keyboard may serve better.

And i've pointed out that virtually all testers have switched to using the TB full time unless there is a special reason they can't - like company policy or a special usage case.

Seems darn balanced to me!

 

[Rolanbek]

Seems darn balanced to me!

This sentence makes @Ergates-thi-Ant 's point.

What have I said that isn't accurate?

Show us what you have verified.

How is any of this related to the shipping estimates or production troubles?

R

 

[Night Spring]

I am balanced. Unless you think that means I have to agree with every attack on WT or every effort to put down the power of the TB!

What have I said that isn't accurate?

I've pointed out they are bad on communication. I've said they've had a lot of delays. I've said there may be certain special cases where a full sized keyboard may serve better.

And i've pointed out that virtually all testers have switched to using the TB full time unless there is a special reason they can't - like company policy or a special usage case.

Seems darn balanced to me!

I think you are way more optimistic about TextBlade's chances of ever shipping than the average person. And even if it does ship eventually, it's hard to imagine how WayTools will ever make up the amount they spent on R&D. Or on all the parts that they made then had to discard when it turned out that they were faulty.

 

[KaliYoni]

I think you are way more optimistic about TextBlade's chances of ever shipping than the average person.

Which is probably greatly influenced by the conflict of interest that was revealed earlier.

The steep learning curve for developing the muscle memory required to use a new keyboard design combined with the built-in killswitch that will brick TextBlades in the event of WayTools' demise, means those rewarded with TREG membership have a very strong incentive to help WT continue to take money from people for a product that seems very likely to never reach a full commercial release.

 

[dabigkahuna]

I think you are way more optimistic about TextBlade's chances of ever shipping than the average person.

Why wouldn't I be? I've seen it. Therefore I have more to base my opinion on. You'll see similar feelings from the other testers too. But, since I am balanced in what I've said, I'll also point out that I said at various times there is no guarantee that it will ship.

Which is probably greatly influenced by the conflict of interest that was revealed earlier.

What conflict of interest???

The steep learning curve for developing the muscle memory required to use a new keyboard design

This has been covered many times. The most recent tester said he was almost up to full speed in a day - which was also said to be unusually fast though. I was into the 40 wpm range in 3 days. Pretty good since before getting the TB, my typical speed was in the 50s. I'm now in the 60s so my speed increased. So, a learning curve to be sure. But not a steep one.

combined with the built-in killswitch that will brick TextBlades in the event of WayTools' demise

True, if it never ships, that is a problem. I've pointed that out myself - balance. However, I'll add that even if they go out of business, it doesn't have to mean our units die. That's just one possibility. Since they work based on a dated token in firmware, they could just as well send out a permanent one whether they go out of business or not.

Of course, that just extends the life a lot more - batteries do eventually die and we won't be able to get a new one if they are out of business (see, more balance!).

means those rewarded with TREG membership have a very strong incentive to help WT continue to take money from people for a product that seems very likely to never reach a full commercial release.

Oh, so that is the supposed "conflict of interest". So EVERY tester who has posted here and elsewhere, praising the device, is being dishonest? After all, none of them has been derogatory. Oh, and I and others have said they understand how some people may cancel or want to wait for shipping to begin (that balance thing again).

But it is just easier, apparently, to ignore people who actually have first hand experience by implying they lack integrity.

 

[dabigkahuna]

https://forum.waytools.com/t/new-treg-impressions/3635

another tester reporting today