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I took it as referring to the PCB improvement as one and the sensing improvement as the other. Or someone might say that since the sensing improvement covers pinky and index finger keys, that makes the sensing improvement plural all by itself.

That of itself is my issue. Not what you or I make of it, but that yet again a WT announcement is equivocal.

Which is more logical?

The fact that the message needs interpretation at all is an issue here.

As a separate note, I don't think I have seen reports from a new TREG user on the forum, or a TREG user citing a replacement, dated after WT definitively said that arrival of new flex PCB's were a future event. I have already seen reports stating they had new Keycaps, (but not new stands). So if we are here 2 weeks later and WT are claiming that they have tested whatever "improvements" already with TREG users then it seem contradictory to their last update regarding the status and location of the new Flex-PCB components.

Someone could go "oh, they must have tested with one of the others in the legion of invisible TREG members." but that is simply making assumptions that fit the narrative.

Can we get a straight forward answer from WT on this? For the removal of doubt.

R
 
WT often says things poorly. I've covered examples in detail many times. But as to these two improvements being included in new treg shipments, there was no inconsistency. It all fit together as I showed.
 
I've finally cancelled my order after 22 months waiting.

I contacted them several times and they just kept telling me how awesome it is. I doubt the product even exists.

Im disappointed that MacRumours supported this brand, I am glad to have my $160AUD back.. Assuming they ever process the refund.
 
WT often says things poorly. I've covered examples in detail many times. But as to these two improvements being included in new treg shipments, there was no inconsistency. It all fit together as I showed.

No, you built a narrative that fitted your preconceptions of what the message should contain.

That is not that same thing as it unequivocally saying the thing you want it to.

Go on the forum, ask them outright "Are the flex-PCB components from the new assembly process in TREG units, in the hands of TREG members?" And "On what date did the flex-PCB components from the new assembly process arrive in Santa Monica." . Let us see what they meant, not "interpret" it.

R
 
I contacted them several times and they just kept telling me how awesome it is. I doubt the product even exists.

Im disappointed that MacRumours supported this brand, I am glad to have my $160AUD back.. Assuming they ever process the refund.

They have never been good at communication. But I wouldn't say MR "supported" the brand. Just the type of reporting I see with all sorts of products. If your refund doesn't go through, it would be the first.

@Rolanbek: I was able to show that all their uses of plural and singular actually consistently fit what I said they were doing. But no matter how clear something is, some people refuse to get it.
 
All purchasers who are thinking about requesting a refund should do so immediately. Since WayTools grabbed buyers’ money before shipping any products, all it will take for getting a refund to become impossible is:

1) WT’s credit card processor terminates its relationship with WT.
2) WT’s bank terminates its relationship with WT.
(a rush for the exits by fed-up purchasers will quickly trigger either of these)
3) WT declares bankruptcy.

The key thing to realize is that you’re at WT’s mercy for a refund. It is very difficult, if not impossible, to dispute a credit card charge that is years old. And once WT loses the ability to conduct credit card transactions or enters bankruptcy, nobody will be able to get a refund, full stop.
 
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@Rolanbek: I was able to show that all their uses of plural and singular actually consistently fit what I said they were doing. But no matter how clear something is, some people refuse to get it.

But you are not going ask a straight question to WT on their forum which will clear the whole thing up?

If it is just poor use of English, then they should have no issue in answering you, like they answered your questions earlier.

If it is something else, then we will see won't we?

It's not like anyone else can ask is it? Most of the people that might spot such a thing have been banned, and rebanned from the WT forums.

R
 
WT often is vague and I've pointed it out when they are as I push them for details. They weren't this time. Their English was just fine. The only thing I needed to know was about the keycaps so I asked about them.

Not interested in asking questions I already have answers for or questions that don't matter to me.
 
WT often is vague and I've pointed it out when they are as I push them for details. They weren't this time. Their English was just fine. The only thing I needed to know was about the keycaps so I asked about them.

Not interested in asking questions I already have answers for or questions that don't matter to me.

Their use of English is the same as it has always been, to inject plausible deniability into any announcement. Some of us have sat through several rounds of this already, Butterflies, Multimap on Android, Shielding, Keycaps, Keycaps again, laminates, UV coating, etc.

The pattern is similar each time.

  1. Sudden silence from WT
  2. Minimal or no posting for weeks
  3. Ambiguously worded announcement that leads people to imply the thing that caused the silence is not a problem
  4. More weeks silence
  5. Follow up that it is a problem/or has caused a further problem
  6. Imply that the previous weeks of silence while frantically firefighting was normal.
  7. Blame criticism for their problems, because criticism warp the laws of physics, by bending time and space.
  8. Ban from their forum anyone who asks too many question about step 1-7
  9. Post weekly updates until another thing happens then got to 1
WT have decided it appears only to speak to those in TREG, and more often than not DBK. DBK's above post is why.

If there are any forum users that still come here, (I don't know why you would, but hey), can you ask WT when the PCB's arrived in Santa Monica?

DBK's answer either means he is happy to remain within his self built narrative, or in fact knows the answer and is not telling. After all he said that either he already knows, or doesn't care, neither of which help users of the MR forum make a judgment regarding the latest heavily spun WT announcement.

@DBK you will do what you want, but you can't make people care about what you say unless you say something that matters. This thread doesn't matter, your posts don't matter, my questions don't matter, only the answers matter.
 
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Their English in this case was just fine. I only point out problematic statements when they actually are problematic.

>DBK's answer either means he is happy to remain within his self built narrative, or in fact knows the answer and is not telling. After all he said that either he already knows, or doesn't care<

I already know the things included in the newest TREG units, thus no reason to ask since it is based on the posts they made. And I don't care when they arrived in Santa Monica so won't ask that.

>you can't make people care about what you say<

I don't care and you can't make me :). I provide info they can read or not.
 
This thread doesn't matter, your posts don't matter, my questions don't matter, only the answers matter.

I think you’re onto something here…TextBlade is actually an existential keyboard. Non-prototype hardware doesn’t exist, Golden Master software doesn’t exist, respectful customer service doesn’t exist, and, probably soon, the money WayTools snatched from purchasers won’t exist (at least in a non-laundered form).
 
I think you’re onto something here…TextBlade is actually an existential keyboard. Non-prototype hardware doesn’t exist, Golden Master software doesn’t exist, respectful customer service doesn’t exist, and, probably soon, the money WayTools snatched from purchasers won’t exist (at least in a non-laundered form).

I'm not sure that is the game here. There are far more efficient ways of bilking people out of money than this. I get the feeling from the wealth of patents that the creators have filed, the main purpose is to troll this branch of keyboard development for years to come.

Obviously, that's my opinion, but you have to admit that would explain the early paranoia and general lack of hurry toward completion.

R
 
I'm not sure that is the game here. There are far more efficient ways of bilking people out of money than this. I get the feeling from the wealth of patents that the creators have filed, the main purpose is to troll this branch of keyboard development for years to come.

Interesting theory. But if true, I think it might not work as well as they expect, because the world seems to be moving to virtual keyboards. Look at Apple's new home button on the iPhone 7. That could be used to make a flat panel keyboard with haptic keys. My feeling is mechanical keyboards are on the way out.
 
I'm not sure that is the game here.

What? So much, then, for the explanation that the cause of everything that has transpired in the farcical saga of the TextBlade is that Knighton and Clover are spending countless hours smoking and drinking and discussing at the Deux Magots (in Santa Monica des Prés, bien sûr) instead of actually completing a real keyboard.

Now I’m feeling nauseous…
 
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the world seems to be moving to virtual keyboards

I don't see that at all. Oh, sure, virtual keyboards will get better for use then they happen to be the best choice in a given situation. I certainly don't pull out my TB just to type some quick stuff on my iphone. But for anything that requires extended typing, I don't see any way for virtual keyboard to replace regular ones. Haptic or not, they just don't have the right feel for the vast majority. I do know one person who can type on an iphone faster than most people can type on a regular keyboard, but he's just an exception. And they type much faster on a regular keyboard anyway.

Look at the way Apple changed the keyboard on the MacBook, where instead of 2 mm of travel, they cut it to one. Even that change was disliked by a lot of typists. Virtual cuts it to zero. It just doesn't feel right. Voice control is nice, but can't be used everywhere and has the problem of computers getting context wrong which affects spelling.

And I've seen people declare that a keyboard which has e-ink displays that can change for given situations would render the TB obsolete. Nope. While that capability would be nice, it isn't groundbreaking.
 
I don't see that at all. Oh, sure, virtual keyboards will get better for use then they happen to be the best choice in a given situation. I certainly don't pull out my TB just to type some quick stuff on my iphone. But for anything that requires extended typing, I don't see any way for virtual keyboard to replace regular ones. Haptic or not, they just don't have the right feel for the vast majority. I do know one person who can type on an iphone faster than most people can type on a regular keyboard, but he's just an exception. And they type much faster on a regular keyboard anyway.

Look at the way Apple changed the keyboard on the MacBook, where instead of 2 mm of travel, they cut it to one. Even that change was disliked by a lot of typists. Virtual cuts it to zero. It just doesn't feel right. Voice control is nice, but can't be used everywhere and has the problem of computers getting context wrong which affects spelling.

And I've seen people declare that a keyboard which has e-ink displays that can change for given situations would render the TB obsolete. Nope. While that capability would be nice, it isn't groundbreaking.

Your argument reminds me of all the people who were convinced that Blackberry phones with their physical keyboard was superior to iPhone's on-screen keyboard and iPhone would never catch on.

And keyboards that can change depending on context is one of the main reasons why I now prefer to work on my iPads rather than on traditional computers with physical keyboard. It's especially handy when switching langugages. I can type Japanese a lot faster on iOS than on Mac or Windows.
 
Not really. I was immediately a big fan ot the iphone's approach for typical quick typing but didn't consider iphone or blackberry to be good for extended typing. Yet I've known people, rarely, who were proficient with one or the other. But the only ones who were faster on those devices than on a regular keyboard were those who simply never learned to use a regular keyboard to any level of proficiency.

Everything has its place. After all, certainly having a computer transcribe your voice would be much faster than typing. But then you have to consider the problem such as:

There are many places you wouldn't want to talk out loud. And places where it may be too noisy. And adjusting to a quite different way of speaking and thinking. I know when I try to dictate, I'm not thinking the same as when typing and I need to deal with those pauses with "um's" etc. that doesn't even count the problems the computer has with context and other issues. But for some people who can afford a good program, it may often be fine.

But for now, when it comes extensive typing, I don't see anything for all round use that beats a good keyboard and it seems to me that WT found a way to make it far better and versatile.

Oh, and you can easily switch languages on a TB. I can't tell you how it compares to an iOS device's built in system because I don't do it myself.
 
But the only ones who were faster on those devices than on a regular keyboard were those who simply never learned to use a regular keyboard to any level of proficiency.

My thinking is that people in his category (those who never learn to type on a physical keyboard) will increase. Unless you are a professional typist, the speed you can achieve with on-screen keyboards is good enough.

Oh, and you can easily switch languages on a TB.

But the keycaps don't magically change instantly, does it?
 
My thinking is that people in his category (those who never learn to type on a physical keyboard) will increase. Unless you are a professional typist, the speed you can achieve with on-screen keyboards is good enough.

I'm sure more and more people don't use regular keyboards, but I don't see it as replacing a keyboard for lots of typing. I keep picturing someone needing to write a three page letter, followed by another large document, etc. On screen is fine for small things for sure and if you never have to do anything long, you could do that kind of stuff scattered in bits and pieces throughout the day. I often do it when out because I may be responding to something online and don't bother getting the TB out (or don't even have it with me in those situations usually). But if I'm having to do a bunch of posts, I want a keyboard.

I have sometimes thought about forcing myself to use voice recognition - because usually I can at home - to see if I can adjust my thinking and speaking process, but it is hard to make myself. When I'm typing, I can be typing one thing automatically and be thinking about the rest of the sentence. But when speaking, that process keeps getting screwed up.

But the keycaps don't magically change instantly, does it?

Few do, but, actually, at least on iOS for not, you can still use the keyboard extension ability to show the TB keyboard layout and it till show whatever it is you have the layout set to. You can even tap the letters on the screen, but that isn't too practical because of the small size and I'm not sure the combo keys work that way.

But I need some clarification on you typing with Japanese stuff. I've been questioning Treg testers who do Japanese and I have not yet gotten it all sorted in my mind. You say you need the keyboard characters to change, so you like the onscreen layouts so you can see those changes. But I assume you aren't having Japanese characters on those onscreen keys since there are, that, thousands of them?

From the others, I've seen them refer to typing the words in phonetically and then the computer system gives you various choices to match what you typed - so that gives you the Japanese characters, but you type in Qwerty (or whatever other system - I use dvorak). In such a case, I don't see why you'd need to see the characters change since you'd be typing normal letters. They also mentioned another approach, using kana and said there were only around 50 of those. Not clear on that yet, but I gather instead of typing regular letters, your keyboard would change, though I guess it would take alternative choices (like activating numbers and symbols) to get them all. Or scroll around.

From what they said, most typing on a computer use phonetic approach because they are using a regular keyboard, but on a phone, they use kana because it makes a better target for thumbs.

Anyway, any clarification you can give me would help understand the situation.
 
They also mentioned another approach, using kana and said there were only around 50 of those.

Here is the Japanese kana keyboard on the iPhone.

IMG_1176.JPG

There are 50 phonetic kana. They are organized into groups of five each. This keyboard shows the first kana in each group.

Tapping and holding a key shows the other four kanas in the group.

IMG_1177.JPG

You then slide your finger to select one of the other four kanas.

As you type, predictive word suggestions start popping up.

IMG_1178.JPG

As you type more kana, the seuggestions change and narrows.

IMG_1179.JPG
 
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Thanks. Now I know at least that we are on the same page! I'll check with the others about whether the TB onscreen keyboard shows those characters or what.

Meanwhile, since they mentioned that most use kana on phones, but phonetics when tying on a computer, what do you do on a computer?
 
Meanwhile, since they mentioned that most use kana on phones, but phonetics when tying on a computer, what do you do on a computer?

Kana can be depicted with the Roman alphabet. For instance, in kana, "kana" is かな.

Most kana takes two roman letters per kana, though there are some kana -- I believe 6 -- that only need one roman letter.

So if you have an English keyboard, you just type kana by typing in the corresponding roman letters. But it takes twice as long than typing kana directly, because you have to hit two letters for most kana.

There are Japanese keyboards that allow you to type kana directly.
https://goo.gl/images/LAjUFG

However, a lot of people who learn to touch type learn the English layout first, then never use the Japanese layout because they find it faster to touch type with the English layout even if they have to hit twice as many letters.
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I'm sure more and more people don't use regular keyboards, but I don't see it as replacing a keyboard for lots of typing. I keep picturing someone needing to write a three page letter, followed by another large document, etc. On screen is fine for small things for sure and if you never have to do anything long, you could do that kind of stuff scattered in bits and pieces throughout the day. I often do it when out because I may be responding to something online and don't bother getting the TB out (or don't even have it with me in those situations usually). But if I'm having to do a bunch of posts, I want a keyboard.

I type all my posts on MacRumors on my iPad, and have for a while, since I started using 9.7 iPads.

I also do all my translation work now on my 12.9 iPad Pro. Granted, I don't type several pages in one go. I type a few phrases, think about it, rearrrange and edit them, go on to the next sentence, and so on. If I knew what I wanted to type and didn't need to stop and edit myself so frequently, I might prefer a physical keyboard. But I can imagine young people nowadays, who start out with onscreen keyboards, might very well grow up used to typing long doucments entirely on screen, and never feel the need for a physical keyboard.
 
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So you use kana on a computer too, rather than the letter approach?

I'm not sure kana would be faster in such a situation though. Oh, if that is what someone is used to, sure. Just as someone not used to touch typing will say they type faster with 2 fingers. But that's not because two fingers is better. It's because they haven't trained themselves to use the rest.

Of course, not having used anything like kana, I'd mostly dependent on what different people who do use Japanese tell me. Meanwhile, just trying to analyze it, granted, hitting one key is faster than two, all other things being equal. But there are other factors. For example, you have to hit the proper key and, unless you know that is the one you want, you have to briefly hold it down so the other options come up. And then you have to take the time to slide. No idea how often you do that compared to going with the default one, but it sure seems to me that typing two letters with the advantage of often using two different fingers would be faster once you are used to it.

Not to say there isn't some extra problems using the TB as opposed to another keyboard IF you just want to use the kana characters, though for spelling them with 1-2 letters I don't see a problem. After all, we only have 3 rows and your screen shot shows four are needed, plus how does one deal with telling the key to slide up, down, left, or right?!

OTOH, the TB does give some options though I grant if there isn't already an existing system, you may be teaching yourself a new system from scratch and may have no desire to do that. Anyway, just imagining crazy possibilities, you might set up 25 individual keys for 25 kana (I have no idea if there would be an obvious pattern to use for this). And then 25 more on what is called the "green layer". The green layer is really easy to use, much like when you use shift to get a capital letter except easier (to me) because you get it by holding down space and another key and your thumb is always right there at the space bar. For English typing, that's how you get numbers and most symbols. Took no time at all to adjust to it and now I easily do numbers and symbols much faster than on a regular keyboard and I don't have to look anymore.

I can imagine other possible approaches but, as I said, I'm not familiar with the system and would need a lot of advice on that MAY make the most sense. But it still seems to me that a regular keyboard on a computer or a phone or tablet would be very fast unless you just weren't used to it. After all, I type over 60 wpm or 300 characters a minute. That comes out to 5 letters a second, minimum.

Oh, I'm curious, what would the consonants and vowels they use (in English). In Hawaiian, we only have 12 letters: AEIOU and HKLMNPW.

It always cracks me up when some tourist stops me on the street to ask me how to get to their hotel and all they can remember is, "It starts with a K"! That is a VERY common letter to start words with here and does little to narrow down the possibilities!
 
By the way, here is the kana keyboard on the iPad. Input on the right, predictive suggestions on the left.

IMG_0359.PNG
 
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