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Thai Man Reportedly Electrocuted After Using a Charging iPhone 4S
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I was replying to the person who said cheap cables = bad, apple cables = good, and relating my experience with apples latest design which doesn't stack up to that assertion.
Also, we don't know it was the charger, that is just speculation. It could also have been a fault in the phone. I know when I use my iPhone while it is charging it gets incredibly hot. Too hot to hold for a long time without a case. So I wouldn't be so quick to definitively claim that it's not apples fault. We just don't know.
No, the story is not false. He was electrocuted by his 4S while using an unauthorised charger. He was using that phone at the time.
"Buy our overpriced chargers or risk death, the choice is yours."
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Really? The charger is included with each phone. It's not an extra purchase. You already know this but you dislike Apple for whatever reason, and so you are being snarky. Hope you are enjoying yourself because most of us are not.
You are missing the point. The "CHARGER" turned the phone into a deadly hazard. If someone duct taped a knife to your hand and then forced your arm to stab someone against your will, would you be held responsible for the stabbing? The iPhone is an innocent bystander your honor and it pleads not guilty.
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Yes, Fry's... The place to shop for high quality merchandise. They put broken and returned merchandise back on the shelf and sell it for 10% off. Make sure your package has an unbroken factory seal.
You are missing the point. The "CHARGER" turned the phone into a deadly hazard. If someone duct taped a knife to your hand and then forced your arm to stab someone against your will, would you be held responsible for the stabbing? The iPhone is an innocent bystander your honor and it pleads not guilty.
The title "Thai Man Reportedly Electrocuted After Using a Charging iPhone 4S" is accurate. It does not say the iPhone was at fault. It's also possible that after selling 50 gazillion phones that this one phone was super defective (I don't think that, I'm just pointing out the possibility of it).
You don't think if someone duct taped a knife in my hand that the title wouldn't be "Someone stabbed by a knife in Gary's hand"!?!
Gary
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iPhone
Try connecting it to a computer and press the home button and sleep buttons alot of times then hold both of them, try again if it doesnt start charging, but this time plug it in directly to the wall and follow same steps. It may also be your charger.
Try connecting it to a computer and press the home button and sleep buttons alot of times then hold both of them, try again if it doesnt start charging, but this time plug it in directly to the wall and follow same steps. It may also be your charger.
Good links.
Most of the people just bash apple about prices, but I'm very happy to pay 19 for a well built charger like that.
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Because in Asia you could buy a charger for 1$ .... go figure QC over that thing
Probably more to do with authorities being careful to stop a lot of potentially lethal cheap knock off chargers into the country. People need to realise that a low quality cheap charger can end up costing a lot if it goes wrong. It can blow up your phone, start a fire or even cost a life.
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This is not bad advice, not so much to buy only Apple chargers but at least get ones from reputable companies have proper testing and certification of their devices. Never use ultra cheap back-door imports they can be lethal.
R = the resistance of a human being (probably from one hand to the other for best effect). That's consistently pretty high.
That's why I prefixed my comment with the proviso with "if he was literally electrocuted" (As opposed to "got a shock/burn which set off an existing heart condition/caused him to fall and hit his head etc.")
He wasn't electrocuted by his 4S. The only thing you can be electrocuted by is electricity.
You can be electrocuted because of or owing to some other factor that puts electricity through your body. In this case, saying he was electrocuted because he was using his 4S is really a deliberate obfuscation. Electrocuted because of a faulty phone charger seems the most accurate summary under the circumstances.
"It's also possible that after selling 50 gazillion phones that this one phone was super defective."
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable. You can't disprove the rule by citing a theoretical exception to it.
"You don't think if someone duct taped a knife in my hand that the title wouldn't be "Someone stabbed by a knife in Gary's hand"!?!"
Yes, the title should include the whole truth, not a limited, misleading half-truth.
You are proving my point for me. Thanks...Where I live the electrical safety authorities have issued several recalls and sales bans for knockoff chargers. Some of these have severe design flaws including insulation distances that are too short, plastic materials with the improper fire properties and plugs that are designed incorrectly or where the pins may remain in the outlet when pulled. Apart from being electrical hazards they're also much more likely to catch fire. The latest charger to be recalled had all of the above flaws plus improper markings.
If you're in areas where the European style 2-pin plug is used for equipment that is not earthed (called Class II and indicated by two squares inscribed inside each other meaning double or reinforced insulation) one easy way to spot a potentially bad design is to take a look at the pins - they're supposed to point slightly inwards towards each other. If the manufacturer didn't get the plug right, chances are the innards are bad too.
The European "CE" marking is unfortunately no guarantee whatsoever that the equipment is properly designed. Look for a real certification mark which indicates that the product was tested by a third-party body.
The man likely touched the phone and something grounded (or a wet concrete floor) at the same time, sending the current through his heart. At mains frequencies, as little as a few mA is enough to kill which is why proper isolation is so important.
If you're in areas where the European style 2-pin plug is used for equipment that is not earthed (called Class II and indicated by two squares inscribed inside each other meaning double or reinforced insulation) one easy way to spot a potentially bad design is to take a look at the pins - they're supposed to point slightly inwards towards each other. If the manufacturer didn't get the plug right, chances are the innards are bad too.
The European "CE" marking is unfortunately no guarantee whatsoever that the equipment is properly designed. Look for a real certification mark which indicates that the product was tested by a third-party body.
The man likely touched the phone and something grounded (or a wet concrete floor) at the same time, sending the current through his heart. At mains frequencies, as little as a few mA is enough to kill which is why proper isolation is so important.
Let's look at the bits involved:
1. Wall power outlet. It is supposed to carry 220Volt or so where I live.
2. Charger. Gets plugged into the wall power outlet, so it is supposed to withstand 220 Volt input. It must be designed so that under no circumstances whatsoever either the outside of the charger or the bit where the cable is plugged in will carry more than 5 Volt.
3. Cable. It's a passive thing. What comes in on one end goes out on the other hand. It's supposed to be plugged into a charger, so there should never be more than 5 Volt input. If you stick it into the wall power outlet or into a defective charger that supplies 220 Volt, it will deliver 220 Volt. It may explode or burn because it's not designed for that.
4. Phone. It takes whatever voltage the cable supplies. It's not designed to withstand 220 Volt, or to be used under water, and so on. If you connect it to 220 Volt, anything can happen. Not the phone's fault.
In the whole queue, the part that is responsible for keeping voltage to at most 5 Volt is the charger. Nothing else in that queue can electrocute you if it malfunctions, except the charger.
If your home cabling is done well, you will also have something that detects when current goes through some unexpected paths. Normally, current should go from one connector in the whole plug, through whatever cabling, and back to the other connector. When there is current going through your body, it doesn't go back to the other connector but straight to the ground, so that should be detected and power stopped. That's what happens if your wiring is fine, and that would hopefully save your life even if the charger tries its best to kill you.
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There is no such thing as a "30 pins charger".
You have two separate components: A charger, and a cable.
The iPhone can detect what kind of cable is attached.
But if the charger puts 220 Volt into the cable, there's nothing the iPhone can do about it. It's like your kitchen scales can detect if you put a kilo of something on the scales. Put one ton on your kitchen scales, and they are just flattened.
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Broken cable connected to a charger that delivers five volt won't hurt you (much). Any cable, no matter how good, connected to a charger that delivers 220 Volt can easily kill you.
Apple simply needs to reduce price of its chargers. They make so many even selling at $5 it might not be a loss.
As to the question of whether the iPhone should be singled out in these cases, two questions come to mind: If a bad charger passes too much voltage to the iPhone, by what mechanism does the iPhone transmit that voltage to its outer case, causing someone touching it to be shocked? And is that mechanism common to other phones and USB devices?
If other manufacturers incorporate protection circuits in their devices which protect against charger malfunction, then I think Apple bears some responsibility, but (obviously) not as much as the manufacturer of the defective charger.
If other manufacturers incorporate protection circuits in their devices which protect against charger malfunction, then I think Apple bears some responsibility, but (obviously) not as much as the manufacturer of the defective charger.
I feel somewhat sorry for people using the knockoffs. Why would Apple charge $29 for a charger and others sell the same looking one for less? Probably for two reasons: Apple wants to make MONEY, and Apple's charger actually is UL listed and complies with the safety standards.
I think people need to be better educated knowing the dangers of these counterfeit chargers. Then again, who cares as long as you save some $$.
Is probably what people think when they hear about the dangers and use it anyways.
I think people need to be better educated knowing the dangers of these counterfeit chargers. Then again, who cares as long as you save some $$.
Is probably what people think when they hear about the dangers and use it anyways.
This is true, but with a properly designed charger the over voltage is detected, and the charger shuts down. With fake chargers, that often won't happen.
But that's not really the issue, the iPhone is DC powered (with the charger rectifying the AC), and again well designed chargers will shut down if a fault is detected. Faulty chargers just send 240v to the phone, and it literally becomes an extension of the mains cable with no insulation.
Apple could add some circuitry in the phone that used the case as ground, or a sort of sensor, which could detect a large voltage difference between the internal -ve and external ground. They could then disconnect the supply, rendering the phone safe. There are a few problems though, the exterior of the phone couldn't be used as an antenna, (since the voltage from the aerial amps would mess up the sensing), it couldn't be used as an EMI shield; and of course the customer would say "oh my phone's broken! Apple Sucks!" and Apple wouldn't be able to prove it was the charger killing the phone. Since the customer probably wouldn't even know the charger had caused the problem, they'd then plug the replacement phone into the cheap charger again, and pop! another dead phone.
Exactly.
True, but why should they have to? They know their phones are safe with their chargers.
They are "fake" because they often try to look like Apple chargers, but internally they use knock-off components/design.
Yes. They are very poorly designed by people who haven't a value what they're doing. In many cases it's not just trying to make the charger cheaper, it's literally incompetence.
http://www.eevblog.com/2012/11/20/eevblog-388-apple-clone-usb-charger-teardown/
That's true, but try holding onto car battery terminals with two hands. It's capable of pushing 300-500 amps, but since the voltage is low and your skin resistance is fairly high, very little power flows. Do you get electrocuted every time you change a AA battery? Of course not.
Most equipment is designed to be single fault safe, that is if something fails there is another safety measure that makes sure the equipment does not get dangerous. Double insulation is a simple example of this.
That relies on your home having a GFCI. Around here many older installations do not, but it is mandatory since a few years.
The phone is not designed to insulate against mains voltage nor it is not expected to. This is common to all devices running on low voltage DC since the charger or power supply is expected to contain the insulation against mains voltage.
Device manufacturers expect their devices to be used with power supplies that meet relevant safety standards. Expecting them to protect against failures of power supplies that are non-compliant is asking too much. It's much better to keep customers informed and for regulatory authorities to remove dangerous products from the market.
A properly designed charger will have correctly designed insulation first and foremost, and this is where most knockoffs fail. Protective distances that are too short, incorrectly designed transformers and components that are too close to each other are common examples of design errors.
You are correct that a power supply should detect conditions like overload and overtemperature since it could also be a very real fire hazard, especially if the manufacturer cheaped out on the enclosure materials. Just a couple of days ago the media here ran stories warning against charging your devices while sleeping because the charger can catch fire - usually cheap knockoff chargers are to blame here as well.
That is exactly the wrong approach to take since use of unapproved chargers is not Apple's responsibility. You would essentially build a GFCI into the phone. One problem would be that any device that will reliably switch mains voltage has to be electromechanical and thus bulky.
However, hairdryers in some places do take this approach - they have a circuit built into their plug that will permanently disable them in case of a ground fault like would happen if you dropped the hairdryer in the bathtub.
With their charger trade-in program Apple has already gone above and beyond what can be expected from a manufacturer. Keeping dangerous products off the market is the responsibility of the regulatory and electrical safety authorities.
I completely agree. As I previously posted in reply to Longofest; should you expect the manufacturer of your car to have included a backup brake system incase someone installs cheap pads? Of course not.