Thank you Apple: No more FW, Ethernet, and Optical

[DaLurker]

Why all the discourse? You can always choose NOT to buy the new MBP. If you're so upset by Apple's decision, vote with your wallet. Go buy another laptop that suits your needs, no need to be angry and frustrated over a product.

If their new MBP flops, they'll have to renege on their decision and put the ports you'd like back in there.

On the other hand, if the product is a resounding success then I would argue Apple got it right.

 

[HardBall]

Why all the discourse? You can always choose NOT to buy the new MBP. If you're so upset by Apple's decision, vote with your wallet. Go buy another laptop that suits your needs, no need to be angry and frustrated over a product.

If their new MBP flops, they'll have to renege on their decision and put the ports you'd like back in there.

On the other hand, if the product is a resounding success then I would argue Apple got it right.

Seriously, the new MBP has all of the features that vast majority of the mac users out ther would need. For that 0.5% outliers, just either get an adapter or get something else that suits you.

I doubt anyone except the most ardent, religiously devoted to FW/ethernet/ODD would even notice anything is missing. There is really no significant user base out ther that even cares about this. The only people that actually cared enough to post in this thread are either held hostage by organizations with obstinate IT dpts, or those "music/video production professionals" (whatever that really means) who for whatever reason want to hold onto their woefully outdated peripheral wares. I doubt any large company like Apple even treats this group as a momentary blip on the radar screen....

 

[Xiroteus]

Why all the discourse? You can always choose NOT to buy the new MBP. If you're so upset by Apple's decision, vote with your wallet. Go buy another laptop that suits your needs, no need to be angry and frustrated over a product.

It still goes back to many people wanting to buy it yet feel Apple dropped the ball, personally the ONLY reason I would and do complain about a product is because it failed to meet my needs and I wanted to like it. I am not curious what PC may get an amazing screen now that Apple has done so.

I know this will sell, it is Apple, no matter the state of the country or world, magic money happens when Apples released a new computer.

I will give Apple credit for pushing SOME things forward, (removing USEFUL functions is not moving forward) things like their amazing screen is and I noticed of late that a lot of laptop screens are lacking in resolution. And now that Apple had done it some PC makers will jump on it, why they never did it before? Who knows, just like the tablet market.

I will say that an adapter could be included, after spending almost 3K and they cannot even add in a adapter? I know a likely reason, only a fraction of said adapters would likely be used. I have seen some fancy PCs and they even come with cases.

 

[voodoopenguin]

Where exactly is the cheap and accessible dongle to give FW? Note: Where is. Not "where will it be maybe in a month or a couple of weeks honestly we haven't got a release date yet".



If you use HDMI, you can't use a higher-rez monitor; you need to use Thunderbolt for those. Now, the good news is, they make a Thunderbolt monitor that also gives you FW and Ethernet ports, as well as more USB ports. The bad news is, it's a glossy display and it's a 27" display, so it's not something you can bring with you when you go somewhere.

If it weren't glossy, it'd at least solve the home system problem.

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Apple's newest display, the 27" Thunderbolt, contains both of these.

Either they are current technology, or Apple's flagship display product is obsolete.

Please stop the excessive fanboy act. It does not actually do Apple, or anyone else, any good for you to go around being smug and rude to people who are, apparently, getting a heck of a lot more use out of their macs than you are out of yours.

If you're happy with the casual end-user subset of functionality, great! Be happy with it! But don't go around being a jerk to people just because they want more out of their machines.

I'm quoting this particular message cause it's the first one I saw, but I'm replying to you on your stance on this in general.

I have quite a few interfaces that are FW as well, and I also prefer ethernet when I'm working since it's much faster than wireless. But the truth of the matter is, technology is moving forward to better i/o mediums. The laptop has to be first to get rid of legacy i/o.

The solution is for companies to start making interfaces for new tech. Yes...that takes time. In the meantime, don't buy the laptop that doesn't have the i/o you need for your stuff. Or buy it, but don't use it for your "work" stuff... or buy it, and use the dongles whenever they're available. It's the first flagship notebook from a major company that has gotten rid of legacy. The transition won't happen overnight, but that doesn't mean you're stuck now too. There are many options for people like us.

 

[Zorn]

The word "adapter" is actually a transliteration of an ancient Sanskrit phrase meaning, literally, "i know i had that yesterday but now i need it and i can't find it".

I have bins full of adapters for various things (mini-DVI, mini display port, DVI, VGA, and so on), and time and time again, it turns out that I can't find the one I need right now.

So, because you can't help but lose an adapter that's essential to your expensive, professional accessories, apple should potentially add cost, thickness, or reduced battery space to this machine?

 

[jsolares]

The word "adapter" is actually a transliteration of an ancient Sanskrit phrase meaning, literally, "i know i had that yesterday but now i need it and i can't find it".

I have bins full of adapters for various things (mini-DVI, mini display port, DVI, VGA, and so on), and time and time again, it turns out that I can't find the one I need right now.

Beyond that, though... It used to be that there were two lines. MacBook for the casual-use machines for people who don't need unusual ports, MacBook Pro for the pro users who want a bit more functionality. The Pro line suffered a bit from Apple's tendency to prioritize glitz over function, but at the end of the day, the MBP was the computer you got if you wanted a workhorse machine that would do what it was supposed to do and come with essential functionality available.

But now, with the MBPR, Apple has finally said "we know there are really good technical reasons for the pro users to need this port, but we would rather charge you $29 and make you carry a separate adapter instead of just putting that core functionality in the machine." There isn't a real pro line anymore.

Do the ports even fit in the new machine?

 

[grrrz]

Seriously, the new MBP has all of the features that vast majority of the mac users out ther would need. For that 0.5% outliers, just either get an adapter or get something else that suits you.

I doubt anyone except the most ardent, religiously devoted to FW/ethernet/ODD would even notice anything is missing. There is really no significant user base out ther that even cares about this. The only people that actually cared enough to post in this thread are either held hostage by organizations with obstinate IT dpts, or those "music/video production professionals" (whatever that really means) who for whatever reason want to hold onto their woefully outdated peripheral wares. I doubt any large company like Apple even treats this group as a momentary blip on the radar screen....

yeah those "music/video production professionals" or whatever payed sometimes a lot more than the price of a laptop for their hardware, so the question is more "wich laptop to go with my hardware" than the other way around.
and no, firewire (800) is not woefully outdated, it was out only a few years ago, and apple pushed it. It's certainly no more outdated than usb 2. Apple just single-handedly decided to (gradually) push it away to make room for thunderbolt.
as the hardware that plugs to it, it has a lot more than novelty to offer, you don't change it every other day because it is "outdated", and the sound interface I bought 5 years ago, firewire only, is still sold brand new, and I will hold onto it for as long as I can.
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fireface_400.php
This is one of the most reputable "portable" sound interface maker in the market and you'll notice most of their portable products is still firewire, and half firewire only.
And with it you get bus power (which mean really portable), something very convenient or essential for some, that apparently won't be possible through an adapter.
As I've already ranted a lot on this forum (and in the wind) about this, for now there is still the other line available so all is fine, but when I have to switch computer in a few years and they cancel it, maybe I'll consider either buying a pc, or a second hand mac, or maybe I'll find a good solution with mac, I'll know for sure then.
just reacting to this hint of arrogance.

 

[makefunnyfaces]

Have to say I'm a little upset about the ethernet port being gone even though I don't use it all that much. I guess they forgot about people in the sticks with intermittent wireless. I just bit the bullet paid for the adapter & was glad it didn't cost much more.

 

[calaverasgrande]

dont get me wrong i hav no problem with them dropping it on the laptops. otherwise i would not be getting one of the new macbook airs.

although there are still use cases where wireless can not beat a good hard wired gigabit ethernet connection. although i think alot of those cases are more likely to occur with a desktop computer than with a laptop.

The main problem with no ethernet is in corporate environments.
Sure most corporations campuses have wifi these days. But the infrastructure is not designed for everyone to be on wifi. Even putting gigabit vs 54mbp aside, just the sheer number of connections will cause a wifi network to slow to a crawl. Where modern hard wired gigabit switched networks provide full bandwidth to each connection.

I honestly think Apple expects corporate clients to go with a 27" TB display as a "dock" for their firewire and ethernet-less MBP's and Airs. I'm sure some of the execs at the ad agencies I used to work for are already ordering this config. But you arent going to see that at every cubicle.
The $30 adapters are annoying but necessary. Esp since now your data connection will be a non-locking connector held in by friction.

 

[KittyKatta]

Seriously, the new MBP has all of the features that vast majority of the mac users out ther would need. For that 0.5% outliers, just either get an adapter or get something else that suits you.

I doubt anyone except the most ardent, religiously devoted to FW/ethernet/ODD would even notice anything is missing. There is really no significant user base out ther that even cares about this. The only people that actually cared enough to post in this thread are either held hostage by organizations with obstinate IT dpts, or those "music/video production professionals" (whatever that really means) who for whatever reason want to hold onto their woefully outdated peripheral wares. I doubt any large company like Apple even treats this group as a momentary blip on the radar screen....

What exactly do you do for a living with your MBP because you seem to have zero understanding on who the MacBook Pro line has historically been aimed at.

I'm not against the missing ports because that's the cost of going thinner and lighter and they did provide TB accessories to fill in the gaps. But it seems the bigger problesless to Pro users has less to do with solely the new MBP, and more to do with Apples shift away from high end users in favor of over-enthusiastic consumers that talk about features more than they actually use them.

 

[kappaknight]

What exactly is Apple's vision? That everyone is going to sync and work with their files in "the cloud" using their AT&T 2gb data plans?

Get real.

I don't think Apple cares too much for at&t - iMessage was a clear shot in the gut stating that.

Does Apple want you to use iCloud exclusively and pay for it over Dropbox, Amazon, Google Drive and Microsoft's solution? Yes. I don't think they care how you connect to it unless/until they come out with their own worldwide wifi network.

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Ethernet is still superior to wireless.

Less latency
More secure
Faster
Doesn't slow down when trucks drive by (or other RF interference)
Uses less power

Wireless has its place and is more convenient for everyday tasks, but ethernet is still very relevant in a lot of offices. I'd rather have it and not use it, than not have it and end up needing it once or twice.

Don't they make 1.3Gigabit wireless now?

 

[ericcumbee]

The main problem with no ethernet is in corporate environments.
Sure most corporations campuses have wifi these days. But the infrastructure is not designed for everyone to be on wifi. Even putting gigabit vs 54mbp aside, just the sheer number of connections will cause a wifi network to slow to a crawl. Where modern hard wired gigabit switched networks provide full bandwidth to each connection.

I honestly think Apple expects corporate clients to go with a 27" TB display as a "dock" for their firewire and ethernet-less MBP's and Airs. I'm sure some of the execs at the ad agencies I used to work for are already ordering this config. But you arent going to see that at every cubicle.
The $30 adapters are annoying but necessary. Esp since now your data connection will be a non-locking connector held in by friction.

oh i am in no way disputing that fact. im an IT Pro and know that reality all to well. in a perfect world wireless would be just as reliable, available, and as secure as wired.

someone help me out here, is the new MBP Retina thick enough to accommodate an ethernet port?

 

[MisterSensitive]

I agree it totally makes business sense to drop these features, although I really want them and will probably buy a non-Retina MBP to keep those features.

The thing that doesn't make business sense to me is the non-user-upgradeable RAM and storage. That's not a MacBook Pro, that's a MacBook I-know-what's-best-for-you.

 

[busterbluth]

Serious mistake on apple's part

No dial up connection port either? How else will I check my AOL account.

 

[PeopleTheseDays]

oh i am in no way disputing that fact. im an IT Pro and know that reality all to well. in a perfect world wireless would be just as reliable, available, and as secure as wired.

someone help me out here, is the new MBP Retina thick enough to accommodate an ethernet port?

No, Look at the "old" macbook, the ethernet port has an extremely thin piece of aluminum on the top and bottom. Hell, the magsafe connecter is smaller than both ethernet and FW, and they had to make that smaller...

 

[MH01]

Why is everyone complaining when there are still the regular MacBooks with all the legacy ports you want available?

Or Mac Pros with old tech dating back to 2010, which will not get updated till late 2013!!!! Apple has tech for everyone!

 

[MH01]

Seriously, the new MBP has all of the features that vast majority of the mac users out ther would need. For that 0.5% outliers, just either get an adapter or get something else that suits you.

I doubt anyone except the most ardent, religiously devoted to FW/ethernet/ODD would even notice anything is missing. There is really no significant user base out ther that even cares about this. The only people that actually cared enough to post in this thread are either held hostage by organizations with obstinate IT dpts, or those "music/video production professionals" (whatever that really means) who for whatever reason want to hold onto their woefully outdated peripheral wares. I doubt any large company like Apple even treats this group as a momentary blip on the radar screen....

See there was a time where mac users were seen as creative, rebellious, tech savvy individuals, sadly now they are treated as techtards, and their devices used more for media sharing/consumption and social media integration instead of media content creation.

Watching that Apple 1984 commercial now, you have to face palm....

The user base you are referring to, the 0.5% is what got apple to where it is now. Why should they change? just because Apple got popular and average user base ability to use a computer dropped hugely it does not mean they should suffer so apple can treat their customers and drones

 

[nomanstool]

Because we'd like the new feature (retina would actually be useful to me -- I do iOS development, and gosh would it be neat to be able to actually DISPLAY the full iPad display on my computer), but don't want to give up the old features. Heck, I have a MBP 17" right now, so I'd have to give up a USB port to get the new machine with USB3 ports, as well as giving up a ton of resolution. Or I could go with Retina, not be able to get a non-glossy display, not be able to get an external non-glossy display (only Apple makes Thunderbolt displays, and the thunderbolt display is glossy), not be able to get Ethernet or Firewire (except on that Thunderbolt display, or with adapters that "will" be available sometime soon), ...

So basically, if I want to preserve the functionality I have today, and use regularly, I have to stick with a machine that's two years old, or buy one with a much lower resolution display.

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How do I use my current Mac with USB 3 devices?

Umm, I could be wrong, but the macbook pro retina display has an hdmi port:

There are alot of monitors that uses HDMI already right? or you can always get an HDMI to DVI adapter

Also on the ethernet, both matrox and belkin will release a hub, that has usb3, dvi, ethernet that connects to a single thunderbird port.

ofcourse the thunderbolt display is in itself a hub on top of being a display.

 

[NewbieCanada]

No dial up connection port either? How else will I check my AOL account.

Speaking of which, did you know that NO Apple computer has ever supported the telegraph?

Talk about contempt for their customers.

 

[zgwortz]

Thank you Apple,

For moving technology and the industry forward, by phasing these interfaces that are old, decrepit, and superceded by better standards and technology. It's about time that they go the way of floppy disks, serial ports, P/S2, and a myriad of ancient interconnect standards.

Ethernet was simply designed during a time when mainframe dominated, and when mini-computers size of refrigerators were considered "portable". There is no excuse in continuing to use a port that is designed during Watergate, and has a totally unreasonable size for the function that it performs and the designed bit rate. Its plastic and fragile construction was originally designed for data centers and intranets, very few people today can justify its continued existence.

FW is something that has not been used by normal people in many years. It is mostly a few stubborn people in photo/video production who have a baseless fear of new technology, while clinging to the things that they knew best. Even the iPod and most Apple consumer electronic products have not used it for nearly a decade, that tells how arcane and ineffective this interface really it. It's simply time to upgrade people's drives, peripheral, cameras, etc, and move on from this anachronistic monstrosity.

The ODD itself takes up huge amount of space. Even the media oriented Apple machines like the Mac Mini and Apple TV no long use such outdated forms of media recordings like DVD. Most people today watch shows and films on Netflix and Hulu, places like Blockbuster are dying a slow by certain death. Hopefully these huge space and weight hog in laptops will meet their final demise in all laptops soon, and we will never have to worry about having a disk stuck in the drive and rendering it useless, and having to carry a laptop with +2 lbs just because some people refuse to migrate to the streaming model.

Great job, , it's time to make the switch. Now that these ports have been relegated to legacy status, only being found on old, outdated models of MBPs. Please also phase these out on the iMac and other computers, and not look back.

Thank you Apple,

Thank you for not listening to a certain highly vocal minority who keep on saying that there's no more need for things like Firewire, Ethernet, and Optical Drives, even though there are many many professionals who still use and need them every day. We both know that the time to get rid of any of these from your product line completely is still many years in the future at the least.

Thank you for continuing to provide us with a TRUE Macbook Pro which doesn't remove ANY features, for those of us who still need to actually do actual work with the machine instead of using it as a status symbol.

Thank you for upgrading that Pro to the best processor and gpu specs of any laptop you make, for increasing it's battery life, it's USB ports, and most of all for maintaining the upgradability which is a key element in making a Pro machine for professionals.

Thank you for providing a separate vanity "Pro" line to let that vocal minority believe they've won the war, while charging them a premium price for a pretty display, less upgradability, and less functionality. Soak them for every penny - because they love you for fooling them into thinking they've got a better machine anyway.

Keep on ignoring their calls for removing these things from your desktop line because we both know how bad an idea that would be right now.

Great job, Apple, you've proven you understand your market perfectly, and are willing to do what's necessary both to keep your traditional customers and gain new ones. I'm once again reminded why I've been a fan of Apple computers for more years than many of those vocal minority have been living. Keep up the good work.

 

[fizzwinkus]

Thank you Apple,

Thank you for not listening to a certain highly vocal minority who keep on saying that there's no more need for things like Firewire, Ethernet, and Optical Drives, even though there are many many professionals who still use and need them every day. We both know that the time to get rid of any of these from your product line completely is still many years in the future at the least.

Thank you for continuing to provide us with a TRUE Macbook Pro which doesn't remove ANY features, for those of us who still need to actually do actual work with the machine instead of using it as a status symbol.

Thank you for upgrading that Pro to the best processor and gpu specs of any laptop you make, for increasing it's battery life, it's USB ports, and most of all for maintaining the upgradability which is a key element in making a Pro machine for professionals.

Thank you for providing a separate vanity "Pro" line to let that vocal minority believe they've won the war, while charging them a premium price for a pretty display, less upgradability, and less functionality. Soak them for every penny - because they love you for fooling them into thinking they've got a better machine anyway.

Keep on ignoring their calls for removing these things from your desktop line because we both know how bad an idea that would be right now.

Great job, Apple, you've proven you understand your market perfectly, and are willing to do what's necessary both to keep your traditional customers and gain new ones. I'm once again reminded why I've been a fan of Apple computers for more years than many of those vocal minority have been living. Keep up the good work.

Boy do I miss that geoport.

 

[aoaaron]

OP is trolling.

Exclusion of an ethernet port is horrible for anyone wanting to stream around a home network which has a lot of interference.

Optical drive is a horrible exclusion too but with no blu-ray, it was bound to happen as they want to push forward online content.

No FW is a big bummer for all those people who bought FW products, presumably because they supported apple products. If only you'd stuck to the trusty USB stuff every other PC is using and you'd be safe.

each adaptor going at 30 a piece = 30x3 = 90/user. apple are the best at making money but i really feel like they dont care that much anymore.



apple are trolling people who are rich and stupid.

 

[therealseebs]

Why all the discourse? You can always choose NOT to buy the new MBP. If you're so upset by Apple's decision, vote with your wallet. Go buy another laptop that suits your needs, no need to be angry and frustrated over a product.

People keep saying this as though it makes any kind of sense at all.

The problem is, there is no laptop that suits my needs. Apple is the only company that could make one, and they've chosen not to.

If their new MBP flops, they'll have to renege on their decision and put the ports you'd like back in there.

Nonsense. Apple just kills failed products.

On the other hand, if the product is a resounding success then I would argue Apple got it right.

The only way to tell whether they got it "right" would be to compare it to the alternative that doesn't exist. If that would have sold better, they got it wrong. Anything Apple makes will sell pretty well, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have done better.

Things that only serve 70% of the population can still sell really well; doesn't mean that a product which sold to 80% of the population wouldn't do better, or that a company might not make a heck of a lot more money making a "less successful" product which sold to 20% more of the population.

 

[mbell1975]

I agree leaving things like a Firewire, ethernet and even optical drive off the new MBP are terrible decisions. Plenty of business and schools use ethernet ports and as for FW and optical drives, really? Firewire just came out a few years ago and is still an industry standard and most every high end laptop features a Blu Ray. I don't see manufacturers moving away from Blu Ray players and 3D tech because they are several years old, thats absurd. So they expect people to pay close to $3k for what is pretty much a MBA with a retina screen? Right, not happening.

 

[zgwortz]

Ok. I get it. You really love your Firewire drive. But how long ago did you buy that? It's probably been a while. Hard drives don't last forever. You'll probably want a new one, or be replacing it at some point fairly soon. When you do, most places you look probably won't even offer the aging Firewire version anymore, so just get a Thunderbolt or USB 3.0 one and your problem is solved. Yes, it's a shocker, you can't just use your gear that runs a trusty old legacy standard forever with new modern machines. Seen a new motherboard lately with IDE ports?

Firewire drives are still being produced, and there's still a surprisingly large market in video devices with firewire interfaces. I'm still using several firewire drives in my home, myself. Yes, legacy standards like Firewire will eventually be phased out over time - but there's still a couple of years of life in this one.

Ethernet, OTOH, while a pretty old standard, is still the primary *physical* network connection standard being used in computing today. Yes, wifi has gotten faster, but there are plenty of industries where wifi cannot be used, due to security, interference, or contractual reasons. As long as that remains the case, Ethernet will be needed. We are, however, *way* overdue for a replacement cable/connector design for it, IMHO.

Actually, the opposite is true. Building in a Blu-ray drive is costly, not just for the components, but also the licensing costs for the things surrounding it. Why would you want to spend $20 on a disc, that you have to constantly carry around in a case and may or may not work across various devices you have, when you can get just about any movie these days as a digital download and view it anywhere? If you get that movie from Amazon or Apple (pretty much the main places) they'll even sync it for you across devices. I was a physical media person for a long time; I have a DVD/blu-ray collection some 300 strong. But it's been over a year since I've bought a physical disc, since digital distribution has evolved to a point that I no longer have to. And unlike before, when I was tethered to my living room or the player in my bedroom, anywhere I am across any device (tablet, phone, computer) I can access my movies.

Your assumption that people need Blu Ray just for movies is the flaw in this argument. The fact is, most professionals have more of a need to be able to *burn* Blu-Rays than they do to watch media on them. I personally could really use a Blu-ray in my laptop for archival purposes, and I have colleagues who really need it to burn produced hi-def video for clients. (And yes, they can and often do use an external drive for that, but they HATE external drives. I can't blame them - I hate them too. They kind of defeat the purpose of having a laptop in the first place.) It's LONG past time Apple switched their superdrives to Blu-Ray, IMHO.