The 2009 (Gainestown) Mac Pro: Everything We Know

Status
Not open for further replies.
Tesselator said:
Ummm, knowing Apple it IS the same mother board. But it's missing one of the daughter boards. It looks like the new systems have 4 slots of memory and one CPU on each (of two possible) daughter boards. Or it's two different daughter boards (?) one type haveing the one CPU and 4 ram slots while the other type has two procs and 8 slots. I wonder too if the chipset in on the daughterboard??? This is a faster design to be certain but it means that there is a custom part which Apple WILL refuse to sell separately thus making it impossible to upgrade on your own.
Click to expand...
No. It has different parts on it besides the processors. Trace layout is definitely different.

However, it doesn't mean they didn't look at similar designs. I'd think the daughter card contains 4 DIMMS and a CPU on both the left and right halves, with the left side placing the DIMMs on the back, CPU on the front. Revers for the right side. Gives a total of 2 processors and 8 DIMM slots.

Of the memory slots, one of the DIMMS shares a channel with another. No way to force 4 channel operation.

Chipset is likely on the logic board. Tight squeeze from what I can tell to fit it on the daughter board. Better, as in larger, and from different perspectives, would be nice though.
Tesselator said:
Of course yes! This would likely make a measurable difference in performance!
Click to expand...
If you have programs that can use it. ;) :p
 
apolloa said:
I agree with the daughter board theory. But why worry if that is the case, you'll be able to buy it as a part through online suppliers. Will be interesting to see what Apple have done here.
Click to expand...

Really? Can one purchase just a Mac Pro motherboard now? I mean for the 2008 Mac Pro models... No right? I betcha the daughter boards will be handled in the same way.



BTW I had some DEC Alpha's with a very similar design. :)
 
Sadly I'm not going to opt out for the new Mac Pros (maybe later on after benchmarks come in and see if any issues arises first).

But for now I'm going to keep the setup I have, actually I'm thinking about downgrading to the $599 mac mini model and run my 24" LED ACD with it.

I just like the fw800 thats built into the mini now + I can probably pocket the $1300 from selling my mbp and buying the lowest end mac mini.

Only thing stopping me right now from going to the Apple store (which does have the new imacs and minis in) is that I want to see how to disassemble the mac mini so I can upgrade its hdd and put 4gb of RAM in myself.

But for now I'm going to be a spectator among these threads and see how the new mac pro plays out.

I have a feeling the new 2.26ghz mac pros will have very very nice benchmarks compared to the 2.8ghz previous models.
 
Tesselator said:
Really? Can one purchase just a Mac Pro motherboard now? I mean for the 2008 Mac Pro models... No right? I betcha the daughter boards will be handled in the same way.



BTW I had some DEC Alpha's with a very similar design. :)
Click to expand...

Yep, if you do some hunting around you'll find an online supplier of parts. I did to get some small sponge anti EFI pads for my old Mac Book Pro.

Got them from here:
http://www.applemacparts.co.uk/store/
 
DCIFRTHS said:
1) The speed that is currently offered is 1066. Why did Apple not choose the faster 1333 memory speeds?
Click to expand...
Easier to just offer one type.
2) Also, I was under the impression that each new CPU could access up to 3 channels (DIMM slots), and if 3 slots are populated, this would give the best performance. Is this correct? Why is Apple offering 8 memory slots, and will performance be affected by the amount of memory modules used?

3) How are Apple/Intel getting 4 channels from a 3 channel memory controller? Something seems strange about this configuration.
Click to expand...
Because they didn't want to offer less than the old ones and they obviously chose not to change the design to accomodate 12 slots. I believe you would get tri-channel then the extra dimms would be accessed at single channel speeds. Each processor connects to a memory branch with 3 channels and each channel can support 3 slots. So think of the
Tesselator said:
Really? Can one purchase just a Mac Pro motherboard now? I mean for the 2008 Mac Pro models... No right? I betcha the daughter boards will be handled in the same way.
Click to expand...

Yes you can get them, they are about $700 I think. There are stores that sell replacement parts for Macs.
 
nanofrog said:
No. It has different parts on it besides the processors.
Click to expand...

Of course.


Trace layout is definitely different.
Click to expand...

You mean the 3200 part vs. the 5500 one? Yeah that would make sense in line with the design theme. If they didn't want that kind of control over parts distribution and update process then there would be little reason to work the design around a daughterboard - I think.


However, it doesn't mean they didn't look at similar designs. I'd think the daughter card contains 4 DIMMS and a CPU on both the left and right halves, with the left side placing the DIMMs on the back, CPU on the front. Revers for the right side. Gives a total of 2 processors and 8 DIMM slots.
Click to expand...

yep!


Of the memory slots, one of the DIMMS shares a channel with another. No way to force 4 channel operation.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean here... Ummm... ???


Chipset is likely on the logic board. Tight squeeze from what I can tell to fit it on the daughter board. Better, as in larger, and from different perspectives, would be nice though.
Click to expand...

Hehehe... Maybe they mounted it on edge. :D


If you have programs that can use it. ;) :p
Click to expand...

Of course we do! Even an image viewer would - right?
 
Umbongo said:
Because they didn't want to offer less than the old ones and they obviously chose not to change the design to accomodate 12 slots. I believe you would get tri-channel then the extra dimms would be accessed at single channel speeds. Each processor connects to a memory branch with 3 channels and each channel can support 3 slots. So think of the
Click to expand...

...your response was truncated, and you were just about to explain how the two additional memory channels are handled (each CPU can handle three channels, but the Mac Pro has eight) :confused:

Thanks!
 
DCIFRTHS said:
Tesselator:

Please see my post - 3 above this one. Any help would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

No, I dunno. I mean if the procs or controller set can interleave 3 memory modules then it can. If there are 8 total sockets then wait-states are going to be introduced for the odd sticks out. Just like the 2008 macs perform the best in fours - but you can still have 2 or 6 sticks installed. It just goes a little slower. Actually noticeably slower as I tested it... But whatever.

features_processor_architecture20090303.png
 
rylin said:
Most (all?) seem to be chop-shops though.
Are any of them sanctioned by Cupertino?
Click to expand...

I don't know, I thought some were Apple authorized resellers.

DCIFRTHS said:
...your response was truncated, and you were just about to explain how the two additional memory channels are handled (each CPU can handle three channels, but the Mac Pro has eight) :confused:

Thanks!
Click to expand...

rylin said:
Maybe he needs to get some ECC memory ;)
Click to expand...

:p

Hopefully this explains it. So you get tri-channel + an extra DIMM at single channel when all are populated as I understand it. The 4th DIMM being accessed at 8.53GB/s. Basically memory bandwidth shouldn't really be an issue for most people.

2gvr89j.png
 
Tesselator said:
No, I dunno. I mean if the procs or controller set can interleave 3 memory modules then it can. If there are 8 total sockets then wait-states are going to be introduced for the odd sticks out. Just like the 2008 macs perform the best in fours - but you can still have 2 or 6 sticks installed. It just goes a little slower. Actually noticeably slower as I tested it... But whatever.

features_processor_architecture20090303.png
Click to expand...

Your answer makes sense, and it mirrors exactly what I was thinking.

It's also not the answer that I wanted to hear. Hopefully going with three sticks for each CPU will give better performance.

If anyone see any benchmarks posted anywhere, please let me know.

Thanks
 
Umbongo said:
I don't know, I thought some were Apple authorized resellers.





:p

Hopefully this explains it. So you get tri-channel + an extra DIMM at single channel when all are populated as I understand it. The 4th DIMM being accessed at 8.53GB/s. Basically memory bandwidth shouldn't really be an issue for most people.

2gvr89j.png
Click to expand...

Excellent diagram and explanation. Do you think that there will be any way to determine what slot is the "4th" bank. I'd prefer to have all my memory running at "full" speed. It technically could be any of them although my guess is that it's number 1 or 4.

Is it safe to assume that if the 4th slot is not populated, that there will be no slowdown in the memory bus?
 
DCIFRTHS said:
Your answer makes sense, and it mirrors exactly what I was thinking.

It's also not the answer that I wanted to hear. Hopefully going with three sticks for each CPU will give better performance.

If anyone see any benchmarks posted anywhere, please let me know.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Yeah, it means that the 6x2 option in the Buy/Configure section is going to make the fastest mac. :)

Benchmarks?

http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/view/55665 4 Ram modules set in place against quad channel access.
http://browse.geekbench.ca/geekbench2/view/94982 4 Ram modules set in place for quad channel access.

Same RAM modules and CPUs etc.
 
DCIFRTHS said:
Excellent diagram and explanation. Do you think that there will be any way to determine what slot is the "4th" bank. I'd prefer to have all my memory running at "full" speed. It technically could be any of them although my guess is that it's number 1 or 4.

Is it safe to assume that if the 4th slot is not populated, that there will be no slowdown in the memory bus?
Click to expand...

It will likely be in the manual.
 
Tesselator said:
Really? Can one purchase just a Mac Pro motherboard now? I mean for the 2008 Mac Pro models... No right? I betcha the daughter boards will be handled in the same way.

BTW I had some DEC Alpha's with a very similar design. :)
Click to expand...
Yes. Macpalace.com offers them. Along with any of the other parts you'd need to fix, or even build one if you're crazy enough. :p
 
DantesAID said:
Where are those 16cores XEONs ? I thought new macPros will have new 8cores CPUs,1 single CPU = 8cores.
Click to expand...
No way. I don't think Intel will have 8-core chips until late 2009. This is WAY too early for that.


What do they think at Apple, that all of us split cocaine everyday and thats how we make our $$$...
Click to expand...
Agreed! These prices are pretty darned shocking. I've been saving for the last year for a Mac Pro, but now I'm having seconds thoughts about getting one at all.

The put-offs for me include:
  1. Huge price boost
  2. Unbelievably low RAM limit of 8GB in the 4-core Mac Pro
  3. No way to later to expand a 4-core core Mac Pro to an 8-core Mac Pro (the old one also had this problem)
 
photobug said:
No way. I don't think Intel will have 8-core chips until late 2009. This is WAY too early for that.
Click to expand...
And apparently it's been delayed to early 2010. The next jump for the EP market segment is 6 cores with Westmere and then most likely 8 cores some time after that.

photobug said:
The put-offs for me include:
  1. Huge price boost
  2. Unbelievably low RAM limit of 8GB in the 4-core Mac Pro
  3. No way to later to expand a 4-core core Mac Pro to an 8-core Mac Pro (the old one also had this problem)
Click to expand...
Is the 8 GB RAM limit a real limit or just due to Apple's BTO options?
 
But, but...

So is the writer of this article full of sh*t!?

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cach...l-core-i7/2/&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=safari

(Link from google cache as site seems to be down - not helping their credibility I realise!)

The key quote being "No longer purely silver all over, black panels and a new power/sleep LED with a subtle hint of color"

...or is it possible these new Mac Pro's are sort of a 'tester' model for Nehalem before the big revamp when Snow Leopard comes out (possibly in June)?

I've been waiting a lonnnnnng time for the next iteration of the Mac Pro, is this really it!?!

Christian

P.S. Like your work Tallest Skill, thanks. You really going to buy this one?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Back
Top