You just answered your own question. Football is a team sport. Dan Marino has 0 rings. You think he's a worse QB than Trent Dilfer? Football. is. a. team. sport.
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The 2013-14 NFL football season thread
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You just answered your own question. Football is a team sport. Dan Marino has 0 rings. You think he's a worse QB than Trent Dilfer? Football. is. a. team. sport.
Other than the obvious that it is a team sport, just like baseball, there are some really obvious meltdowns from Brady, Peyton Manning, and Tony Romo and that's all I have been pointing out for years and years here. For Romo, where it's really most apparent with lack of even a single NFC or Super Bowl title, he has an off the chart career passer rating of 95.8 and on many very good squads. At least Marino got to a Super Bowl and can't ever be painted in the same bad light as Romo (who I think may be done in the NFL).
The greatness of a QB, with or without a great team really shows in the big games and that's why Montana doesn't have anything close to a competitor when it comes to who was the best. While Montana didn't have the numbers of Brady or Romo or Manning, he brought his A game to the Super Bowl when it was needed. I am not saying this being a Niner fan since my guy Kap and the Niner offense laid an egg with so many chances to get a touchdown but failed. It's that x-factor when the pressure is on. I can make light of it and make excuses and say last year the Niners came back from a huge deficit but still when it was over, or that Kap was thrust into the starter position, but the Ravens won it all and we choked. Nothing is as lame as making excuses. We blew it and I don't know why you and zioxide sit on excuses for Brady and just don't simply own up to the fact that he choked in his last two Super Bowls. I for one will say, "The Niners choked last year! They blew it! I admit this and it hurts!"
You can relate over in your woods with David Ortiz when it comes to rising to the occasion. He delivers most when it's needed and that separates a great player from the very best of his generation which he most assuredly is. We have the great, great, great Pablo Sandoval of the SF Giants and as great as he is, even tying Reggie's HR in a game record in a WS, he's still not David Ortiz.
And we can talk all we want about what a ham or egotistical jerk Bradshaw was but when it came time to perform he never lost in four Super Bowls and at a certain point you can't attribute it to things outside of his play. He will be exalted by some in a way Marino, Brady, Peyton Manning, and many others won't because he went four for four. People forget his low career passer rating and all the mediocre games he had in the season because he showed up 100% percent for the four games that were Super Bowls. He left a winner, each and every time.
I consider myself a fan of my Niners but also of the sport of football. Where it makes sense to say Montana is the greatest, at least postseason performer, I have to also say that Kap (last year and now) is not Montana as much as many current Niners fans would want to make you believe. To be fair to football I have to say that my team is really only, at best, #3 or #4 in the remaining field of 8. A true fan can point out their faults as well as their strengths and just pointing out good points and making excuses for mistakes is not a fan of the sport, but a fanboy of just one team. If there was a bad call, I get ready for next week and let it be. The refs don't determine my season, the players do. Part of what makes it fun is when your team wins even with that one or two bad calls or those injuries. We all get bad calls and injuries but fanboys will make you think the bad calls and untimely injuries only happen to their team.
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Technically, that is not quite accurate. SB losers still get rings, they are just not as fancy as the winners' rings. Now, if we consider someone like Earl Campbell, or Steve Largent, or Barry Sanders, or ......
There are? What are they? Putting Brady in the same conversation as Romo is absurd. It's like you're intentionally trying to be sensationalist.
63dot said:
We don't sit on excuses - unlike you, we realize that football is a team game. Neither of us have made excuses for 2007 or 2011. The Patriots lost fair and square. It happens. But it's ridiculous (and frankly, wrong) to blame Tom Brady for those losses or to insinuate that those losses sit on his shoulders alone. I mean no rational, football educated person would conclude that he's the reason the Patriots lost those Super Bowls. He overachieved by helping to mask the poor defense of the Patriots all season by scoring a ridiculous, insane amount of points. When the Patriots finally face a defense that was talented and quick enough to stop that, the ride ended.
63dot said:
Uh, hello, he played with those incredibly talented Steel Curtain teams. I mean, you're joking/trolling right? Terry Bradshaw did not will those teams to Super Bowl victories himself. That defense was historically good. He was throwing to freaking Lynn Swann. He had Franco Harris running the football for god's sake. He didn't do anything in the league, really, for his first seven seasons. That is a long stretch.
63dot said:
If that's true, your perspective on rings = how good a player is really confusing. Usually the people that espouse that line of thinking don't know very much about how team sports work.
Not at all.
Let's see. Both ridiculously talented, mid-90s rated QBs who couldn't pull through in key final 4th quarter drives? I see a connection in that. Some may call it choking. Putting Brady since 2005 season and Romo in the same conversation is pretty consistent, don't you think?
I didn't answer the rest of your post since it's just a string of fancy excuses.
If my Niners don't make it all the way then I hope to heck the Patriots win it all so I don't have to hear any more lame excuses for why you didn't win in '07 and '11. Stop hiding under the excuses of bad defenses, injuries, or of how others are blessed with this great player or that great player. The fans on Macrumors of the NFL of other teams don't make excuses. If their team lost, they own up to it and hardly ever make an excuse. You two are giving the Patriots a terrible name here and sounding like whiners.
Your own Tom Brady confesses when he makes a bad final pass and admits it's short or not on target and moves on. If the guy can't get it done in the 4th, let it be. You lost and it's just a sport anyway at the end of the day.
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This is laughable. Blaming the defense for the Patriots losing those Super Bowls isn't "making excuses", it's stating a fact. The defense blew both damn games. That's how both games ended. Asante Samuel had the Superbowl won until he dropped that interception. Then the defense couldn't even stop that ridiculous Tyree catch. Same thing in the second game. All the defense had to do was keep Eli Manning out of the end zone for one drive and they would have won. The defense those years were garbage and it showed when they played a team that they couldn't put up 40 points on.
And you compare Brady to Romo? Romo's 1-3 in the playoffs in his career. Brady is 17-7. Most playoff wins all time. Best regular season winning percentage (by a long shot) of all time. Brady has nearly 40 career game-winning drives in the 4th quarter/overtime. Comparing him to Romo is hilarious.
For the 2011 superbowl I would blame that horrible overthrown pass to Welker that would have iced the game. I know Brady is the golden boy and a lot of Pats fans think he could do no wrong which is why many blamed welker for not making the catch... but the truth is that it was a bad pass.... could welker have made a spectacular catch sure... but the fact remains it was a bad pass thrown by the golden boy.
Individually, and not as a team wherever they may end up or wherever they have been I judge a QB on their rating. Rating isn't a fanboy and measures the performance of the player. From pro-football-reference.com:
5. Tony Romo 95.8 2004-2013 dal
6. Tom Brady 95.7 2000-2013 nwe
Playing as a QB with all numbers like yards, interceptions, TDs, etc, they are as close as they come. The rest of the team, coach, etc is what determines when the wins come or not.
It's safe to say for both if they retire with numbers anywhere similar to these beginning of 2013 numbers, the Hall of Fame is waiting. There are only four QBs in history that posted better career numbers.
QB Rating is probably the worst stat for measuring quarterback play. I mean, if you're drafting a fantasy team, it might be useful, but otherwise it's pretty useless.
Useless little anecdotes and stats like QB rating is the reason one of the best QBs in the history of the sport was drafted in the 6th round at 199 overall. It doesn't provide the whole picture.
Where's Tony Romo on this list?
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co...s-greatest-victory-machine-nfl-history/28098/
"Here’s the most remarkable part: Brady is +115 wins-to-losses in a sport in which only nine other QBs in the history of the sport have won even a total of 115 games."
After reading all the blather the past 2 days I'd like someone to list some Offensive lineman stats..
Know what I mean ?
Know what I mean ?
I saw that the other day... what an absolute moron that guy is..... I would love if the NFL agreed but then had Succop miss the field goal again LOL.... The guy's head would probably explode.
Even better is the fact that the man suing is in prison.
FoxSports.com said:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/laces-...uld-be-in-playoffs-instead-of-chargers-010814
Even better is the fact that the man suing is in prison.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/laces-...uld-be-in-playoffs-instead-of-chargers-010814
Steelers fan, after all, kind of a rite of passage for them, right?
That stat is sort of mind-blowing. Wow, what a good team, a machine, New England has had for the past 13+ years.
That's news to me. How about baseball and pitcher's ERA or batters and their on base percentage?
Then what do we measure sports players by, how cute their wives are? (important stat below at 0:23)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiAHlZVgXjk
I LOL'd.
You could definitely make that argument. I'm not saying Brady couldn't have thrown a pass or two better - he certainly could have, especially in 2011. He's far from perfect, and many fans were a bit frustrated with him (fairly or unfairly) in the beginning of this season. But the argument that he is to the Patriots SB appearances in 2007 and 2011 as Andy Dalton/Tony Romo is to the Bengals/Cowboys postseason appearances is ridiculous. Even being mentioned in the same breath as Tony Romo - honestly to me it shows a complete lack of football acumen. Come on.
I know the talking heads at ESPN have to drum up storylines and such, but I've seen some of their more ridiculous talking pieces regurgitated here by a certain poster.
In the interest of not acquiring another forum violation for calling people morons
D), I will respectfully abstain from that conversation. No one will convince me Tom Brady is like Tony Romo (or even Peyton Manning) in the playoffs, and there seems to be no push the other way, either.Although I do love completely and utterly ignoring that Terry Bradshaw played behind a historically great defense along with two HOFers on offense. He did it all by himself! FOUR RINGS = BEST QB evarrrr!!!
That would be me but a few others here, too. I like the NFL site, ESPN, and bleacher report. They do write and sometimes it may seem like fluff or bringing up controversy but I think mostly they are solid in their assessments. I don't like it when they pick on the Niners or Raiders but more often than not they are right. It's no fun when somebody calls something out on your team (running game shut down, defense unable to stop other team's run, passing game off, etc) but I just accept it if it's true.
I don't however sit there and argue when the writers and everybody on this board see a bad pass or play from the Patriots and talk until I am blue that it was somebody else's fault when Brady or Gronk made a bad play. It's OK to support your team, but don't try and rewrite football history when youf guy or guys blow it because it just ends up making you look like a sore loser. If Brady didn't botch two 4th quarter comebacks this year that were obvious and the two 4th quarter comebacks in the two last SBs he played, then I wouldn't be comparing him to Romo and his famous predicament for blowing more 4th quarter comebacks than he saves. Sure Romo had some good 4th quarter comebacks this year and in his career but of late he had blown some of the biggest ones, well, just like Tom Brady after 2005. I am not hard on Brady and my Niners never met them in SB nor are the Pats in my division, but a homer is a homer and I always call them on it. It's unfair to the sport and clutters this board.
Do the writers/analysts (who do this for a living unlike us) get it wrong when they only have you tied for 5th in power rankings of remaining eight teams? Are the analysts somehow wrong when they say that Brady is only rated at an 87.3 all year when his career average is a considerably better 95.7? Could it be that he is older and like every great QB around his age (sometimes younger) that he's not quite the same guy? God that would be blasphemy to say if he were the creator or the universe but guess what, he isn't. I saw Steve Young, Joe Montana, and Jerry Rice get older and decline noticeably and I didn't make excuses for them. They are humans and they age and they lose their abilities. This is the case with Tom Brady and sure it's not fun to see an even older guy like Peyton Manning (who Tom has bested more than once) simply have a great year on all fronts. We all decline at different rates and I hardly think Tom's rating, in 16 games all year, is a fluke. It happened to my guys and it's probably happening to you.
But if Tom and the injured, second string Pats pull off a Super Bowl win (even a SB appearance), it will be your sweetest and be a great way to have some later career kudos and undeniable right to call Tom the greatest ever. A win in SB will seal that but honestly, just winning AFC championship, with career stats, will put Tom at #1 on any QB all time list. Dan Marino was #1 or #2 on many a greatest QB list and he never even won a single SB. Joe Montana said at his retirement that Marino was the greatest QB, and possibly NFL player, ever to play the game. Even with Favre putting up bigger numbers some year later, Montana still stood by that statement on TV.
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This is ridiculous. Did you even watch the games this year? Did you see the roster they had to work with? Skip Bayless said it himself. Brady took a team that should have been 3-13 and made them 12-4 and if a couple calls go the other way they could have been 14-2. With our 7 of our top defenders missing tons of games, 4 of them out for the year, and missing our best offensive player for all but 3 games.
Brady had 6 comeback victories this year but instead you're bashing him because he couldn't do it 8 times. Buffalo in the first week of the year, the Kenbrell Tompkins TD against New Orleans with 2 seconds left, coming back from 24-0 at halftime against Denver, comeback against Miami, coming back against Houston, and against Cleveland. He also came back to force OT against the Jets (they lost on that controversial call on the FG in OT) and was a botched PI call from a comeback against Carolina. And he was oh-so-close to pulling it off in Miami again too.
Brady's got 31 4th quarter comebacks in his career, just as many as your boy Joe Montana.
And you talk of rewriting history and then claim that Brady "botched 4th quarter comebacks" in the Super Bowls against the Giants? You're the one re-writing the history. Brady drove both those Patriots teams down in the last 5 minutes of the game and put them in position to win. The Patriots defense couldn't hold on against the Giants 4th quarter comebacks of their own.
Putting the QB with the most postseason wins and the best regular season winning percentage with 1-3 in the playoffs Tony Romo is funny though.
It could be due to his age. It also could be due to the revolving door at WR, TE, RB, and OL that the Patriots have had this year. You won't be able to tell for a while. With better (or healthy) personnel next year, he could have a huge rebound year just like Manning this year.
The Pats came tonight will be interesting. I think Indy has many strengths that work against our weaknesses, but you cannot discount Tom Brady.
The only thing that bothers me, is stories like the torch being passed. I understand Brady is getting older and Luck is hitting his stride but if the Pats lose, its not because Brady is getting older but the too many injuries affected the team. Plus they let a few too many quality players go to other teams (or jail)
The only thing that bothers me, is stories like the torch being passed. I understand Brady is getting older and Luck is hitting his stride but if the Pats lose, its not because Brady is getting older but the too many injuries affected the team. Plus they let a few too many quality players go to other teams (or jail
)The only thing that bothers me, is stories like the torch being passed. I understand Brady is getting older and Luck is hitting his stride but if the Pats lose, its not because Brady is getting older but the too many injuries affected the team. Plus they let a few too many quality players go to other teams (or jail
Agreed. I'm surprised that the Patriots have done as well as they have this year due to all that happened. I guess it helps that they are in a weak division.
Well the first time they played I thought the Saints were gonna spank Seattle. Now after the spanking N.O. got I'm still gonna go with the Saints in this matchup.
New Orleans over Seattle 31-27
New Orleans over Seattle 31-27
By the time he's done, he will have considerably more than Montana, this is true.
But that only backs my point more that, with so many 4th quarter comebacks, the last ones he did in 2007 season and 2001 season hurt even more. I don't know if there is a quarterback with Brady's numbers who lost two super bowls in failed 4th quarter bids. I guess it's better than having had the Patriots blown out by three touchdowns each time by*the Giants but a loss is still a loss after many years when people forget the details. Our facts match each other, yes 31 comebacks and all, but our perceptions are different.
For my Niners team, where some (rightly so) are overjoyed that an inexperienced QB like Kap can do extremely well under the circumstances, I still see that he couldn't do the deed in the red zone when it most counted. He was close and had numerous chances in the 4th so what the hell I thought. Even if Kap ends up being better than Young or Montana, true fans of the Niners will remember the huge SB loss last year. The media will forget last year if the Niners get it all this year but I won't. Just like it's great that Steve Young had a killer super bowl win in the '94 season, he got bested in the two previous years by the then rival Cowboys who outclassed us.
Take this 2012 Niners super bowl loss, and add it to the winning feeling we had with the Giants unexpectedly coming back from six elimination postseason baseball games (a modern record tied with one or two others) and it only makes San Francisco's football loss just months later that much more painful.
Many here are all about baseball, basketball, and football and take the thing as a whole. I will concede that no city in recent years has enjoyed such dominance overall in all the pro sports and you guys are basically pulling a New York (who still has the most pro sports titles over the very long haul).
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Are you high, and in Seattle? I so hope you are right since Seattle represents the biggest stumbling block for anybody this postseason. Let's realistically look at Seattle by ten points, which I hope doesn't happen. And if Seattle makes it to super bowl, they will easily take any AFC competitor by ten points, too.
But being football, and just one game and not a series, anything can happen and after all year of being beat up and pushed, top players do get hurt and downgraded or put out this time of year.
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The Pats came tonight will be interesting. I think Indy has many strengths that work against our weaknesses, but you cannot discount Tom Brady.
The only thing that bothers me, is stories like the torch being passed. I understand Brady is getting older and Luck is hitting his stride but if the Pats lose, its not because Brady is getting older but the too many injuries affected the team. Plus they let a few too many quality players go to other teams (or jail
When the time comes, any torch Brady or Peyton Manning will pass will be to QBs on their own team (Favre to Rodgers, Montana to Young).
I take New England by a touchdown and I expect the unexpected from New England's defense. They have a habit of sometimes waking up and becoming ferocious in the playoffs. Add this to Brady's postseason record overall and I don't see the Colt's winning this one tonight.
The other game, like I said, that's easy and it's Seattle.