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A nervous match that became all about two big calls.

I think Liverpool deserved their win in the end but West Ham made it really hard, especially in the first half where they successfully threw a bit of a wet blanket over Liverpool's early attack.

At the end of the day though, I think one can see why Rogers got rid of Carroll and Downing. They work within Allardyce's system but that kind of team is never going to win a league title int his day and age.

Pen 1 - clear penalty

West Ham goal - I still don't know what happened, but the ref and linesman had a really long talk before the goal was given. I don't think the ref had a clear picture. Andy Carroll appears to have fouled Mignolet just before the ball got tapped in.

Pen 2 - a 50/50 call. There was contact, and I think most refs would probably call that a penalty. But you can make a good case that both players had a right to go for it and nobody was fouled. In fact, I think the keeper got to it first. Personally, if I'm trying to be objective and with the benefit of a replay, I'd be inclined to say that it's not a penalty.

To be fair to the ref, there were a lot of shouts for handball in this match from both sides and I think the ref got every one of them right.
 
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12 penalties this season for Liverpool. That is a lot, and a chunk of them have been quite decisive in their season thus far too.
 
Even though i'm relatively neutral on the Wenger out/Wenger in debate, his position really is starting to look untenable. This is the worst i've seen it in terms of discord amongst the fan base.

I still think he should get a chance to spend the money he's made over the last decade. But i fear the man himself may walk away at the end of the season. He looked despondent today even though he's partly to blame, with some of his diabolical tactics, and his stubbornness in January. But the players themselves...oh dear.

It says a lot really when a player who's been injured for almost 4 months comes on and puts in a better performance in 25mins than the whole starting 11 did in 90.

Shame really, i really don't want him to leave on a whimper (he doesn't deserve that) but with these players...God help him.

That said, congrats to Everton/Martinez.

Hopefully i'll get to congratulate my own team and manager for their performance and deserved victory against a team soon...maybe.

Now then, which will it be;

A. 5th place + FA Cup
B. 5th Place + Zilch.
C. 4th place + FA Cup

EDIT: PS- Norwich have canned Hughton.
 
Don't really see the point of sacking Hughton now to be honest but whatever. Could there be a worse timing.

Agree on Wenger/Arsenal. He has his faults sure but the players have to look at themselves. They're professionals making ridiculous money. Should not be turning up with performances like that.

You feel sorry for the fans. They pay the highest ticket prices and are rewarded with 6-0, 5-1, 6-3, and 3-0 capitulations. Disrespecting the club/manager/fans.

Unconscionable.
 
Don't really see the point of sacking Hughton now to be honest but whatever. Could there be a worse timing.

The power of fear. Sometimes it causes you to make the right changes that help you turn a corner. Most other times, it hastens your downfall.

Agree on Wenger/Arsenal. He has his faults sure but the players have to look at themselves. They're professionals making ridiculous money. Should not be turning up with performances like that.

You feel sorry for the fans. They pay the highest ticket prices and are rewarded with 6-0, 5-1, 6-3, and 3-0 capitulations. Disrespecting the club/manager/fans.

Unconscionable.

Yup.

Meanwhile, the club will be 'rewarding' fans for their continued support by nudging up ticket prices by 3% next season.

You're welcome. ;)
 
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Hull City are just one point behind West Ham with a superior goal difference. Tantalizingly close to a top-10 finish. :)

Don't really see the point of sacking Hughton now to be honest but whatever. Could there be a worse timing.

It's a panic move rather than a calculated decision. If they somehow survive, the board will take the credit. If not, its not like they'll sack themselves.

Agree on Wenger/Arsenal. He has his faults sure but the players have to look at themselves. They're professionals making ridiculous money. Should not be turning up with performances like that.

You feel sorry for the fans. They pay the highest ticket prices and are rewarded with 6-0, 5-1, 6-3, and 3-0 capitulations. Disrespecting the club/manager/fans.

Unconscionable.

Maybe things have gotten irretrievably stale under Wenger (who is certainly a very good manager). Maybe it really is time for a change, for the good of both parties.

Doubt he'll make it, Grant Holt is on the march. :)

Poor Jay Rodriguez's injury could shake things up a bit in the race for England spots. Some have argued that Grant Holt deserves a change as much as Ricky Lambert.

I agree though, I don't think Carroll has shown enough. Also, he only works if you play longball. A quintessential plan B striker.
 
How did West Ham's goal stand!!!!! The fact that the replay was playing on the big screen behind the officials when they were making the decision was laughable

Still, 3 points in the bag!
 
Jay Rodriguez is out for six months with an ACL tear. Bad news for Jay, Southampton and England. Hopefully he'll be able to get back on the pitch next fall.

Results of the Hull Tigers season ticket holders vote: http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26921004

Shenanigans, Jaffa?

Well, that proves that, of Hull's 15,000+ season ticket holders only 2,565 are willing to publicly support the name change and another 700-odd don't care either way. I must say I'm surprised it's that many (and I'm surprised at the low voter turnout - boycott perhaps?) but it is still a very small minority of Hull City fans - not the 'silent majority' they wanted. It's hardly a mandate for the Allams.

That it has come to this...
 
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Shenanigans aplenty, I'm afraid. :rolleyes: There were a lot of concerns raised both by supporters and the wider media about how the ballot was run...

First, the question itself. The form - which incidentally didn't mention the name 'Hull City' once – contained a statement from the Allams with three options...

  • Yes to Hull Tigers with the Allam Family continuing to lead the club
  • No to Hull Tigers
  • I am not too concerned and will continue to support the club either way

Essentially, the ballot wasn't simply on the name change - the question of the club's ownership comes into the equation and unfortunately there are a lot of people scared by the thought of what will happen if they walk away/sell up/do one of the other things they've threatened to do in recent weeks. So, first concern - a loaded form with only one side of the argument presented on it.

The ballot was open to all adult passholders - our voting forms were to be emailed to us in the form of a PDF we could fill in and return to the club. I'm still waiting for my email notifying me of the ballot, as is Mrs Cake. And as are quite a few other supporters that we know. However, we downloaded the forms ourselves and submitted them so we at least got our votes in. So, second concern - have some people missed the chance to vote?

The PDF form had a problem however, which saw a number of people's forms arrive at the club blank. We're told that those affected were contacted by the club to resubmit their choice by email, however some folk are saying that they have evidence there was a problem with their form and they haven't been contacted. Third concern - did your vote actually count?

However, there's also the option of printing your form out and posting it in a ballot box at the stadium - but when trying to do so many folk encountered problems. Staff didn't know where the boxes were, or they were locked in an area where they couldn't be reached, and in one case they'd been removed early because there was a rugby game on that day. Fourth concern - were people prevented from handing their forms in in person?

If you did actually manage to get your vote in, what safeguards were in place to protect it? Email votes were accessible to club staff - a couple mentioned on social media they could see the emails coming into the inbox, so therefore they had access to the system. And what of the physical ballot boxes? Were they locked and sealed until the count? Who had access to them? Fifth concern - could my vote have been tampered with?

Going back to the form, it was necessary to write your name, address and pass number on it otherwise it wouldn't be counted. This certainly isn't a usual procedure for a secret ballot - and there were some folk concerned that as it's clear to see how they voted they could potentially be subject to some sort of blacklisting in the future. Don't forget that the ballot was going on during ticket applications for an FA Cup semi-final, and we could potentially have Final tickets up for grabs in a week or two - I'm not quite cynical enough to believe this myself, but some folk have stated that they abstained or even voted yes as they were worried that voting 'no' might mean they'd be blacklisted. Sixth concern - could my vote be held against me in the future?

Initially, it was suggested that only adult passholders would have a vote. However, it soon became clear that corporate box holders would get a vote as well. Many of these are friends or business associates of the Allams, so in all likelihood they'd vote in support of them. However, these people didn't receive one vote - if you have a corporate box which seats twelve you got twelve votes. Seventh concern - extra votes for the Allams' chums.

And who was counting the votes? We were told there was an unnamed 'independent adjudicator' at work, we only found out who they are today despite the club being asked on a number of occasions. Turns out it's a company in Bristol who do vote counts for TV phone ins and the like, and who apparently have no prior experience of a ballot of this nature. Eighth concern - a lack of transparency about who is counting the votes.

Anyway, those are the core concerns. Many others have come forward with concerning tales about the difficulties they've had in actually voting - in balance it should be noted though that these problems would arise whichever way you voted.

So, what about the results?

Following the recent ballot of season card holders, the club can confirm the majority of votes cast are in favour of Hull Tigers with the Allam Family continuing to lead the club.

Majority? Hmm...

15,033 season card holders were eligible to vote - however, only 5,874 did (or could ;)).

The result of the ballot is as follows:

2,565: Yes to Hull Tigers with the Allam Family continuing to lead the club;
792: I am not too concerned and will continue to support the club either way
9,159: Number of season card holders who did not vote
2,517: No to Hull Tigers


Only 48 votes difference between yes and no - or four corporate boxes, if you prefer. ;) Both these votes came in at around 43% of the vote, not enough to anyone to claim a majority.

But consider this - whichever way the club want to spin it, despite all of the Allams' threats, bullying, insults and bluster, despite the loaded question, despite the inept way the ballot was held, despite the divisions this is creating in the fanbase, despite loading the vote with corporate cronies, only 17% of the number of season pass holders were prepared to step forward and back them. Hardly a compelling mandate for change.

This Wednesday the FA Council will meet and make their decision. Our supporters have, on the whole, refused to bow to the Allams' bullying and we hope that the FA take an equally firm stance.
 
Shenanigans aplenty, I'm afraid. :rolleyes: There were a lot of concerns raised both by supporters and the wider media about how the ballot was run...

First, the question itself. The form - which incidentally didn't mention the name 'Hull City' once – contained a statement from the Allams with three options...

  • Yes to Hull Tigers with the Allam Family continuing to lead the club
  • No to Hull Tigers
  • I am not too concerned and will continue to support the club either way

Essentially, the ballot wasn't simply on the name change - the question of the club's ownership comes into the equation and unfortunately there are a lot of people scared by the thought of what will happen if they walk away/sell up/do one of the other things they've threatened to do in recent weeks. So, first concern - a loaded form with only one side of the argument presented on it.

The ballot was open to all adult passholders - our voting forms were to be emailed to us in the form of a PDF we could fill in and return to the club. I'm still waiting for my email notifying me of the ballot, as is Mrs Cake. And as are quite a few other supporters that we know. However, we downloaded the forms ourselves and submitted them so we at least got our votes in. So, second concern - have some people missed the chance to vote?

The PDF form had a problem however, which saw a number of people's forms arrive at the club blank. We're told that those affected were contacted by the club to resubmit their choice by email, however some folk are saying that they have evidence there was a problem with their form and they haven't been contacted. Third concern - did your vote actually count?

However, there's also the option of printing your form out and posting it in a ballot box at the stadium - but when trying to do so many folk encountered problems. Staff didn't know where the boxes were, or they were locked in an area where they couldn't be reached, and in one case they'd been removed early because there was a rugby game on that day. Fourth concern - were people prevented from handing their forms in in person?

If you did actually manage to get your vote in, what safeguards were in place to protect it? Email votes were accessible to club staff - a couple mentioned on social media they could see the emails coming into the inbox, so therefore they had access to the system. And what of the physical ballot boxes? Were they locked and sealed until the count? Who had access to them? Fifth concern - could my vote have been tampered with?

Going back to the form, it was necessary to write your name, address and pass number on it otherwise it wouldn't be counted. This certainly isn't a usual procedure for a secret ballot - and there were some folk concerned that as it's clear to see how they voted they could potentially be subject to some sort of blacklisting in the future. Don't forget that the ballot was going on during ticket applications for an FA Cup semi-final, and we could potentially have Final tickets up for grabs in a week or two - I'm not quite cynical enough to believe this myself, but some folk have stated that they abstained or even voted yes as they were worried that voting 'no' might mean they'd be blacklisted. Sixth concern - could my vote be held against me in the future?

Initially, it was suggested that only adult passholders would have a vote. However, it soon became clear that corporate box holders would get a vote as well. Many of these are friends or business associates of the Allams, so in all likelihood they'd vote in support of them. However, these people didn't receive one vote - if you have a corporate box which seats twelve you got twelve votes. Seventh concern - extra votes for the Allams' chums.

And who was counting the votes? We were told there was an unnamed 'independent adjudicator' at work, we only found out who they are today despite the club being asked on a number of occasions. Turns out it's a company in Bristol who do vote counts for TV phone ins and the like, and who apparently have no prior experience of a ballot of this nature. Eighth concern - a lack of transparency about who is counting the votes.

Anyway, those are the core concerns. Many others have come forward with concerning tales about the difficulties they've had in actually voting - in balance it should be noted though that these problems would arise whichever way you voted.

So, what about the results?

Following the recent ballot of season card holders, the club can confirm the majority of votes cast are in favour of Hull Tigers with the Allam Family continuing to lead the club.

Majority? Hmm...

15,033 season card holders were eligible to vote - however, only 5,874 did (or could ;)).

The result of the ballot is as follows:

2,565: Yes to Hull Tigers with the Allam Family continuing to lead the club;
792: I am not too concerned and will continue to support the club either way
9,159: Number of season card holders who did not vote
2,517: No to Hull Tigers


Only 48 votes difference between yes and no - or four corporate boxes, if you prefer. ;) Both these votes came in at around 43% of the vote, not enough to anyone to claim a majority.

But consider this - whichever way the club want to spin it, despite all of the Allams' threats, bullying, insults and bluster, despite the loaded question, despite the inept way the ballot was held, despite the divisions this is creating in the fanbase, despite loading the vote with corporate cronies, only 17% of the number of season pass holders were prepared to step forward and back them. Hardly a compelling mandate for change.

This Wednesday the FA Council will meet and make their decision. Our supporters have, on the whole, refused to bow to the Allams' bullying and we hope that the FA take an equally firm stance.

Just out of curiosity, if for some reason the name change happens, what will you do? Will you stop supporting the club? Will you stop going to matches?
I'm interested in what you would do, since I'm not sure what I would do in that situation.
 
Just out of curiosity, if for some reason the name change happens, what will you do? Will you stop supporting the club? Will you stop going to matches?
I'm interested in what you would do, since I'm not sure what I would do in that situation.
It's something I've thought long and hard over since this first raised its head a year ago. If the name change is permitted then it serves as vindication the Allams' lies, insults and bullying, and shows that a club's cherished identity takes second place to the petty whims of its owner.

When you support a club like Hull City - or Wigan Athletic, for that matter - you don't do so because you anticipate success or owt like that. You support that kind of club because it reflects where you're from, it's part of your identity.
However, Hull Tigers wouldn't be a club I could relate to or identify with in any way. My season pass wouldn't be renewed, I'm afraid.
 
What a farce.

It's something I've thought long and hard over since this first raised its head a year ago. If the name change is permitted then it serves as vindication the Allams' lies, insults and bullying, and shows that a club's cherished identity takes second place to the petty whims of its owner.

When you support a club like Hull City - or Wigan Athletic, for that matter - you don't do so because you anticipate success or owt like that. You support that kind of club because it reflects where you're from, it's part of your identity.
However, Hull Tigers wouldn't be a club I could relate to or identify with in any way. My season pass wouldn't be renewed, I'm afraid.

I think I'd probably do the same. Supporting a club through thick and thin does not include supporting a club that has been hijacked. Assuming Allam does change the name he is, as you say, altering its identity. It won't be the same club as long as the rebranding lasts.

This case and Cellino's bid to take over Leeds have to be two of the most disturbing developments in English football this season. It's a credit to Hull City's fans, manager and players that the club have managed to have a successful season in the top flight despite the outrageous antics of the owner. But Allam's name change campaign has overshadowed all that good work.
 
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... You support that kind of club because it reflects where you're from, it's part of your identity.
However, Hull Tigers wouldn't be a club I could relate to or identify with in any way. My season pass wouldn't be renewed, I'm afraid.

Noble sentiment and I am sure the counter arguments are well discussed but allow me to play devils advocate for a minute. If the local council refuses to 'support' the club (eg. ownership of the ground) that bears its name (thus Hull City is not a brand that anyone can lay claim to) and by virtue of being in the premiership acts as the biggest most visible advertisement for the place, why wouldn't the owner want to change the name so he could have 100% ownership of the brand? If Pepsi wasn't called Pepsi and it was called Skegness, don't you think it'd be better served to own the brand? Nobody knows where football is headed, what is 100% certain, brand is one of its most valuable assets. Its only asset some might say. Not that it's any of my business of course. Peace
 
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at least in the Premier league such discussions are the exception and not the rule.

in Austria shamefull renames after sponsor names are part of the game ;)

Red Bull is infamous but the club wasn't actually official called SV Austria Salzburg since decades:

1973 to 1976 SV Gerngroß A. Salzburg
1976 to 1978 SV Sparkasse Austria Salzburg (Bank)
1978 to 1997 SV Casino Salzburg (the casino salzburg)
1997 to 2005 SV Wüstenrot Salzburg (insurance)

then we have today
Puntigamer Sturm Graz (beer)
Josko Ried (a window-producing company)
Riegler & Zechmeister Pellets WAC (wood pellets)
SV Scholz Grödig (i don't even know what this is)

and this is just the first league, the second league is sometimes worse where we have currently 2 teams sponsored by sports-betting providers

and in lower regional leagues names become hilarious because of small company sponsors


and our "glorious" austrian football cup is currently called "Samsung Cup"

and some classic from the 90ties:
FC Swarovski Tirol (glass jewelry)
FC TIROL MILCH INNSBRUCK (milk products)
FK AUSTRIA MEMPHIS WIEN (a cigarette brand !)
LIEBHERR GRAZER AK (cranes)
Keli Linz (a softdrink brand ... one of the funniest names of all times)
 
If the local council refuses to 'support' the club (eg. ownership of the ground) that bears its name (thus Hull City is not a brand that anyone can lay claim to) and by virtue of being in the premiership acts as the biggest most visible advertisement for the place, why wouldn't the owner want to change the name so he could have 100% ownership of the brand?
On the stadium issue, the naming rights of the ground are held by a sponsor - the locally-based Kingston Communications, not the Council. Hull City Council own Hull City AFC's current ground, but have never had any ownership of the football club. Additionally, the football club's name actually predates that of the council - Hull City were founded 1904, Hull City Council only came into being in 1972.

The council has actually been rather supportive of both Hull City and Hull FC with the stadium - they built it for both clubs and the terms of the lease are actually pretty good for Allam, who also owns the Stadium Management Company which oversees the day-to-day running of the facility. In that regard, I think they've ben pretty supportive of the club - it's fair to say moving to the KC has been a catalyst for our rise through the divisions. But the issue is that Allam wants the stadium and the surrounding land to build a 'sports village' (one which seems to have a fair bit more retail space than sports space), and the Council's apparent unwillingness to sell has led to him falling out with them. The Council for their part claim that Allam has at no point actually made them an offer, but we only have their word for that.

Allam's desire to change the club's name stems from the fact that he doesn't like the Council - despite his and his son's claims to the contrary it has nothing to do with 'Hull Tigers' being a more marketable name to sponsors. Indeed, Ehab Allam admitted in a radio interview a couple of weeks ago that the club hasn't has a single enquiry from potential sponsors or investors tied to the name change, and admitted that the club is on course to turn in a profit under its current name.

No one here would have any qualms at all about the club using its nickname as a core part of the 'brand' - we actually like our nickname, it's rather ace and we're proud of it. But we're also proud of our current name and what it represents to us - there's no need to butcher what we currently have and turn it into something ridiculous. We're often told that the Allams are great businessmen - surely any businessmen worth their salt should be able to market the hell out of our nickname without messing around with our long established 'brand'?
 
... Allam wants the stadium and the surrounding land to build a 'sports village'...and the Council's apparent unwillingness to sell has led to him falling out with them. The Council for their part claim that Allam has at no point actually made them an offer, but we only have their word for that.

That's the crux of it. Two versions of the same event. One's word against another. Who do I believe? And if there was an indicative offer on the table (but no written paperwork) does it constitute a 'formal' offer?

Can I trust some local politicians or the bloke who's put his money where his mouth is and invested heavily in the club when it came perilously close to being just like Portsmouth under then ill-fated Paul Duffen ownership...don't know the man but if I was a fan I'd side with the owner. Be careful what you wish for...
 
That's the crux of it. Two versions of the same event. One's word against another. Who do I believe? And if there was an indicative offer on the table (but no written paperwork) does it constitute a 'formal' offer?

Can I trust some local politicians or the bloke who's put his money where his mouth is and invested heavily in the club when it came perilously close to being just like Portsmouth under then ill-fated Paul Duffen ownership...don't know the man but if I was a fan I'd side with the owner. Be careful what you wish for...
Bear in mind that over the past year we've had continued lies from the Allams over their plans, followed by insults and bullying - that's eroded a lot of goodwill people may had for the owner.

Equally, their 'investment' is in fact a series of loans from another one of their companies which they get a rather generous amount of interest on. They're also able to claim a number of tax breaks on this sum, as well as charging 'management fees' from the club. All of which is perfectly legal and makes good business sense for sure, but it's worth remembering the nature of the money that's gone in when they talk about their 'generous gift'.

In terms of comparison to the Duffen reign, we're actually far more heavily in debt now then we were then - about £40m then if I remember rightly, in the region of £100m now.

Anyway, on that note I wonder what Paul Duffen's actually up to these days?

BkfVd73IIAAxWDv.jpg

That's him tipping up outside the KC last Saturday. He's a regular visitor on matchdays, as a guest of the Allams...
 
Chelsea look like they just might win this tie. Good for Liverpool fans, as it guarantees more fixture congestion for Chelsea.

Speaking of Chelsea, there is an interesting article (or rather a polemic) against Mourinho in the Irish Times. Hard to argue with it.
 
Chelsea look like they just might win this tie. Good for Liverpool fans, as it guarantees more fixture congestion for Chelsea.

Speaking of Chelsea, there is an interesting article (or rather a polemic) against Mourinho in the Irish Times. Hard to argue with it.

Dortmund also has turned up against Real madrid: 2:0 currently(Reuß double strike) .. one more goal and it's overtime

edit: also Weiderfelder saved a penalty against di maria in the first half and Dortmund hitting the woodwork in the second on top of some great chances ... this could really be one of those magical nights ... and no free tv station here is showing it
 
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hmm, at this stage of the season, I'd rather Chelsea went out as the disappointment will have a greater impact (IMO) than fixture congestion. Anyway, they still need a goal and PSG seem to be holding out after a few scares in the early stages of the second half (hitting the woodwork twice)
 
Dortmund also has turned up against Real madrid: 2:0 currently(Reuß double strike) .. one more goal and it's overtime

edit: also Weiderfelder saved a penalty against di maria in the first half and Dortmund hitting the woodwork in the second on top of some great chances ... this could really be one of those magical nights ... and no free tv station here is showing it

Indeed, Reals' defensive issues are biting them in the backside.

hmm, at this stage of the season, I'd rather Chelsea went out as the disappointment will have a greater impact (IMO) than fixture congestion. Anyway, they still need a goal and PSG seem to be holding out after a few scares in the early stages of the second half (hitting the woodwork twice)

I take your point. But if it meant Liverpool could win the league...but no, I'd rather not see Chelsea win anything, ever, as long as Abramovic, Terry and Mourinho are around.

I really expected PSG to score. Cavani just missed an excellent chance to put the game away.
 
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