do you even know who Zidane is? im surprised, coming from a "football" thread...
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The 2015-2016 Football Thread
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do you even know who Zidane is? im surprised, coming from a "football" thread...
At least that doesn't increase their chances to win the CL (or La Liga) one bit so no reason to be disappointed. Pep is a brilliant coach, no idea why he'd go to a mediocre team? he'll coach the very top clubs for a very long time.
Kurt from Bayern to Hertha is excellent news.
Wondering if that crazy Sane offer by City is legit..
Kurt from Bayern to Hertha is excellent news.
Wondering if that crazy Sane offer by City is legit..
Pretty sure he knows. he probably also knows that Zidane coached RM's B team while not actually being qualified to do so.
Your opinions clearly differ, but I don't think coaching a B team briefly makes you more than qualified to coach one of the worlds biggest teams. He might have the right badges now, but coaching and management experience?
Maybe if he'd lead some big team to league and cup victory over a few seasons then maybe he'd be more than qualified in my opinion, but at the moment, it would be like putting Ryan Giggs in charge of ManU and expecting them to win the league...
he he he.. yeah he coached there 13-14 :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinedine_Zidane
might be a very good choice after all. i'm not a fan of the team or him but we will see. my oldest son loves this move.
He coached the B team for 1 season in 2014 despite not actually being qualified to do so. That makes him more than qualified to coach RM? There are probably a lot of managers with 5+ years experience laughing
He also was an ass man for Carlo for a season and Perez loves him (for now) - so what could go wrong?
He also was an ass man for Carlo for a season and Perez loves him (for now) - so what could go wrong?
Actually, an interesting question...Which legendary player has made the best manager? And by legendary I mean could probably have gotten in to any team in the world
Beckenbauer has a strong case - won the World Cup as both a player and manager. Only one other person (Mário Zagallo) has done that.
I'm not trying to be hard on Zidane, but he has won nothing as a manager of a professional senior squad, and he is being asked to take over the helm of a club with unreasonable and constantly shifting expectations. He will be facing off against other, proven managers with decades of experience. He might slot right in and succeed, but there is almost no evidence to support that notion. He is even more likely to fail, if history is any guide.
I'm not trying to be hard on Zidane, but he has won nothing as a manager of a professional senior squad, and he is being asked to take over the helm of a club with unreasonable and constantly shifting expectations. He will be facing off against other, proven managers with decades of experience. He might slot right in and succeed, but there is almost no evidence to support that notion. He is even more likely to fail, if history is any guide.
Interesting question. I'll start with Carlo himself, Pep and Johan Cruyff.
Always been a huge fan of Enrique as a player - legendary already with his RM history but so good he made even Barca fans forgive him that mistake - but he's too young a coach (albeit with great success so far) to be put into that category.
Beckenbauer, Ancelotti and Cruyff definitely. Guardiola doesn't quite cut it for me. As previously said, it would be interesting to see how he did with a team that isn't regarded as the best team in the league already, and one of the world's current greatest teams
[doublepost=1452006059,1452006000][/doublepost]
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fulham-prepared-wait-guardiola#:lL5mo81qyT9cPQ
[doublepost=1452006059,1452006000][/doublepost]
Perhaps Fulham will get their wish?
http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fulham-prepared-wait-guardiola#:lL5mo81qyT9cPQ
Guardiola - I'm not sold on him yet. He did great with Barca but kind of got found out in the CL with Bayern. The German league sounds like a one horse race anyway.
Now that he has confirmed that he will head to England, wherever he ends up (City seems most likely), there is no single "best" team at his disposal. If not in the first year, he definitely needs to win the league in the 2nd and the CL in 3rd to be rated as a top top manager. Let's see how this pans out.
Now that he has confirmed that he will head to England, wherever he ends up (City seems most likely), there is no single "best" team at his disposal. If not in the first year, he definitely needs to win the league in the 2nd and the CL in 3rd to be rated as a top top manager. Let's see how this pans out.
Whichever club he ends up at, it's probably going to be a bigger challenge than his past 2 jobs. Man City, as you say, seem favourite to acquire his services, and would probably be a lesser challenge, as City's team (on paper) are probably the best of the 3 candidates, although there are rumours of him going to Arsenal, I read today
I presume he's already been offered the job, and if it is City, does that mean if Pellegrini turns it around and wins the league, he'll still be out of a job?
I presume he's already been offered the job, and if it is City, does that mean if Pellegrini turns it around and wins the league, he'll still be out of a job?
yes, winning the league seems to guarantee managers the sack next season...so Pellegrini winning the league and getting sacked would just be following the current trend
Edit: Heck even winning the CL does not come with a guarantee of a manger keeping his job
Edit: Heck even winning the CL does not come with a guarantee of a manger keeping his job
To say Guardiola isn't a top tier manager sounds like crazy talk to me. He did AMAZING at Barca - totally disrupting everything Real Madrid for years to come (it's not like the BPL where you have 4 mediocre top teams, there I said it, but at least one other that is absolutely top tier). I remember seeing the CL finale against ManU (when they were still relevant), maybe you do too - only Chelsea could be said to be somewhat threatening during those times. He brought an already great team (Rijkard - what is that guy doing atm btw?) to a whole other level. Same as Enrique is doing right now. That is no easy feat, no matter how you wanna spin it.
With Bayern it is a bit different, yet not surprising taking into account that he basically never played or coached for any other relevant club besides Barca. I always thought his years here as a preparation for the PL. But even here he took a great team and made it much better, way more versatile and way more consistent - never has Bayern been that dominant in every single damn match in the BL - setting record after record. Carlo will be thankfull. CL is a different beast - I figure they have good chances at a shot this year btw - but the two matches against RM were those where he took into account what Schweinsteiger and Lahm suggested. And against Barca they had a)crucial injuries and b)an opponent that I'd argue was at least on par with the Barca some years ago = the very best by far. But I also argee that these made him look human/vulnerable.
With Bayern it is a bit different, yet not surprising taking into account that he basically never played or coached for any other relevant club besides Barca. I always thought his years here as a preparation for the PL. But even here he took a great team and made it much better, way more versatile and way more consistent - never has Bayern been that dominant in every single damn match in the BL - setting record after record. Carlo will be thankfull. CL is a different beast - I figure they have good chances at a shot this year btw - but the two matches against RM were those where he took into account what Schweinsteiger and Lahm suggested. And against Barca they had a)crucial injuries and b)an opponent that I'd argue was at least on par with the Barca some years ago = the very best by far. But I also argee that these made him look human/vulnerable.
But he's already had a top team to work with at Barca and arguably more so at BM. He hasn't guided an average team to continual or even brief success. That plaudit probably goes to Mourinho and Porto.
It doesn't mean he can't do it, he's never had the opportunity to, but that's why people are sceptical
It doesn't mean he can't do it, he's never had the opportunity to, but that's why people are sceptical
But that's the case with all those guys - Beckenbauer, Ancelotti, etc pp. Mou winning with Porto sure sticks out a bit (as does Greece winning a EC) but Porto has been top in their league as long as I can think and always been a very decent CL club so it's not that different as well.
If you have success at a big CL club - be it by coincidence or because you have a history as a player - it's strange to complain that he never coached a mid table team successfully. And let's face it, managing a top team with big egos has also different tasks on top of the main job, just like managing some bottom tier team to avoid relegation. What he did with the squads of Barca and Bayern made him a top coach, doesn't matter whether he'd be succesful with Stoke as well (chances are he'd be better than most of the others though).
Reminds me on those discussion some years ago (seem to have ended) where there would be always somebody saying that Messi isn't half as good as everybody was thinking because he wasn't playing against Terry or some bulldog German defender every other weekend.
Pretty hard to fail with Messi, Villa, Busquets Xavi, Iniesta, Pique in your first XI.
As for Bayern, i personally still prefer Heynckes's version to Pep's version. But thats just me.
Pep is a good coach, no doubt, but he's had the luxury of managing teams that ruled their respective divisions.
Other managers have turned less superior teams to winners which in my opinion is more noteworthy.
I can understand if you fail at Real, since its a bunch of individual egos rather than an actual 'team'. But even Ancelotti succeeded there too, and took them to La Decima.
As for Bayern, i personally still prefer Heynckes's version to Pep's version. But thats just me.
Pep is a good coach, no doubt, but he's had the luxury of managing teams that ruled their respective divisions.
Other managers have turned less superior teams to winners which in my opinion is more noteworthy.
I can understand if you fail at Real, since its a bunch of individual egos rather than an actual 'team'. But even Ancelotti succeeded there too, and took them to La Decima.
Heynckes played one system only - worked perfect for one season. I doubt he'd had that much success afterwards - just like Klopp since 2-3 years - other teams figure out how to approach and overcome those inflexible systems.
But I don't feel like arguing anymore.
edit:
Barca always had amazing squads. Look only two years before Pep arrived with what players Rijkard had to manage..I like Rijkard but he he got first with RM having the same points in 06/07 and just got third in 07/08 with almost the very same squad that played everything into oblivion one year later with Pep being coach.
And the very same could be said for Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Kroos, Modric, Pepe, Alonso etc pp. > it takes a great coach to form a title winning squad out of brilliant players. Same with Barca as could be seen when they were more or less coachless (Tito being in NY due cancer treatment) facing Bayern. Or with Fergie getting the best out of an already overdue team in his last season.
But I don't feel like arguing anymore.
edit:
Barca always had amazing squads. Look only two years before Pep arrived with what players Rijkard had to manage..I like Rijkard but he he got first with RM having the same points in 06/07 and just got third in 07/08 with almost the very same squad that played everything into oblivion one year later with Pep being coach.
And the very same could be said for Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Kroos, Modric, Pepe, Alonso etc pp. > it takes a great coach to form a title winning squad out of brilliant players. Same with Barca as could be seen when they were more or less coachless (Tito being in NY due cancer treatment) facing Bayern. Or with Fergie getting the best out of an already overdue team in his last season.
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No manager, however skilled, can take a mediocre team and transform it into a powerhouse. That takes money. Lots and lots and lots of money.
Guardiola could not win the title with Stoke (for example), even if he was given ten years to do it. They just don't have the money. These days the "big" clubs spend 100 million a year just to be in the running.
Guardiola could not win the title with Stoke (for example), even if he was given ten years to do it. They just don't have the money. These days the "big" clubs spend 100 million a year just to be in the running.
That goes without saying - but also for every single coach there is on this planet. Doing good with a mid table team doesn't mean one has to win the title to be a good manager. Messi will eventually never win the WC - doesn't mean it'd be outrageous to think him of as the best player there ever was (for example). Beckenbauer won the WC as a manager - Cruyff didn't. Who is the better coach? The one with the title or the one that revolutionized the whole system for generations to come. (Isn't a question, Beckenbauer himself answered that question - and in that case I even trust him telling the truth
).