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The 2017-2018 Football Thread

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balamw said:
Not a good day at the office for Gerard Piqué. Ronaldo's probably getting a suspension for putting hands on the ref.

B
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If there is a more glorious thing than seeing Ronaldo get sent off for two idiotic yellows and then copping a five-game ban by do-you-know-who-I-amming at the ref, I don't know what it would be. Brilliant. Keep it coming, Crispy.

Hopefully Barca show up for the second leg and at least make it interesting, but Real have all but won this meaningless 'Clasico' tie.
 
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Lord Blackadder said:
If there is a more glorious thing than seeing Ronaldo get sent off for two idiotic yellows and then copping a five-game ban by do-you-know-who-I-amming at the ref, I don't know what it would be. Brilliant. Keep it coming, Crispy.

Hopefully Barca show up for the second leg and at least make it interesting, but Real have all but won this meaningless 'Clasico' tie.
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Yes, that gentleman - gifted footballer though he may be - brings narcissism to an art form.
 
Liverpool manage to win their first leg CL qualifier against Hoffenheim 2-1. An important result, but hardly evidence that this squad will make an impact in the group stages, should they win this tie. With Coutinho, Lallana, and Sturridge out with injury (officially, at least, in Coutinho's case), the thinness of Liverpool's squad is already glaringly obvious.
 
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Lord Blackadder said:
Liverpool manage to win their first leg CL qualifier against Hoffenheim 2-1. An important result, but hardly evidence that this squad will make an impact in the group stages, should they win this tie. With Coutinho, Lallana, and Sturridge out with injury (officially, at least, in Coutinho's case), the thinness of Liverpool's squad is already glaringly obvious.
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I don't know why they don't cash in on Coutinho and get out there and splash the cash whilst the window is open. He's never going to play for them again IMO.
 
Apple fanboy said:
I don't know why they don't cash in on Coutinho and get out there and splash the cash whilst the window is open. He's never going to play for them again IMO.
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Agreed.

There seems to be a surfeit of sulky striking superstars all too evident in the latter part of this summer - indeed, this is a condition that would appear to be afflicting a number of clubs.
 
Apple fanboy said:
True. I blame Jimmy Hill!
(I fear that might go over the heads of the younger crowd!)
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Jimmy Hill should be saluted, - and was entirely in the right - but the legal implications of the Bosman Ruling are still causing ripples in the footballing community.

Add to that the manner in which the Premiership came about, (there have been a number of fascinating articles describing how the Premiership - and the related Devil's Pact with Sky - came into being as this marks the twenty fifth anniversary of the launching of the Premiership), the transformation on the relationship between clubs and the communities that gave rise ti them, the new breed of "owners", and then, yes, he emergence of a generation of outrageously talented but bottomlessly entitled footballers and the sleazy agents who make a living form them, and you have a toxic brew.
 
Scepticalscribe said:
Jimmy Hill should be saluted, - and was entirely in the right - but the legal implications of the Bosman Ruling are still causing ripples in the footballing community.

Add to that the manner in which the Premiership came about, (there have been a number of fascinating articles describing how the Premiership - and the related Devil's Pact with Sky - came into being as this marks the twenty fifth anniversary of the launching of the Premiership), the transformation on the relationship between clubs and the communities that gave rise ti them, the new breed of "owners", and then, yes, he emergence of a generation of outrageously talented but bottomlessly entitled footballers and the sleazy agents who make a living form them, and you have a toxic brew.
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I think the agents are the biggest problem. Always looking for another signing on fee. The money they earn is ridicules.
 
Apple fanboy said:
I don't know why they don't cash in on Coutinho and get out there and splash the cash whilst the window is open. He's never going to play for them again IMO.
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That might be the plan as yet, but it's a reactionary approach to big financial decisions. Plus, who is to say there is a player that could be bought right now who could adequately replace him? Other clubs might simply refuse to sell, regardless of the fee - as with RB Leipzig and Keita.
 
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Its an interesting development. A lot of clubs have money now because the tv rights are ballooning and because clubs are extorting each other. As a result they are well equipped to reject most moves so you either wait out the player's contract or pay more than double to get the player. Its maniacal that a 'decent' player is now £€50m base price, a good player €£70m, and a top-tier-ish is €£100m and above. Its obscene and its only a matter of time before the bubble bursts. Something will have to give.

Theres no point keeping players who don't want to be around. Only Fergie knows how to do it and he only managed it for one year. Once you're at that point there are no winners besides the player and his agent.
 
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Lord Blackadder said:
That might be the plan as yet, but it's a reactionary approach to big financial decisions. Plus, who is to say there is a player that could be bought right now who could adequately replace him? Other clubs might simply refuse to sell, regardless of the fee - as with RB Leipzig and Keita.
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Yes, that's probably the first (or at least one of the first) transfer windows that exemplifies the problems of modern day footy-hyper-inflation. Many clubs have or potentially will earn so much money by default that they don't need to sell their best players any more to the AAA-clubs. And if nobody needs to sell nobody can spend all that money that is floating around.

That leads to many players going "on strike" to put some pressure on their bosses (Dembele, Coutinho, VVD + many more) and to brute force a transfer. The Spanish clubs are at a disadvantage sine they have to give all their players buy-out clauses. So that's why Neymar could move but leaves Barca now with an unprecedented truckload of money but even that money isn't nearly enough to go on a meaningful shopping spree..

I'm partial on all these strikes though becsuse we all don't know what was agreed upon, and be it just verbally, when the contracts were signed. So Dembele for example, who was a (small but still) shooting star in France got requests by Bayern Munich, Barca and other big players but moves to Dortmund (wise decision) signing a 5-year contract without any buy-out clause but no agreement re requests by bigger clubs at all? I don't think so. More likely the officials told him that they'd support / don't block a transfer request by one of the AAA clubs if a meaningful sum would be involved. And nobody can tell my about 100million in cash isn't a meaningful sum - so Imho the player is partly rigth if he feels cheated (happened to Lewandowski btw. where the officials somehow couldn't remember making such a statement/deal).

My2c
 
Alphazoid said:
Liverpool turn down €125m. Should've taken the money IMHO
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€125m doesn't buy what it used to. I'd rather convince Coutinho to play out this season and sell him for €40m next season than lose him for €125m right now. What Liverpool needs right now are good players, not money.

In a vaguely parallel story, Diego Costa seems intent to force a move to Atleti, with lawyers exploring new ways to break him out of Chelsea. We are edging very close to the point at which all player contracts are completely meaningless pieces of waste paper once the transfer window opens.

Total agent/player power makes it nearly impossible to build a squad that can expected to last beyond the next transfer window. Agents have an incentive to move players as often as possible, and players can convert the slightest grievance into a transfer request that cannot be ignored.
 
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Lord Blackadder said:
€125m doesn't buy what it used to. I'd rather convince Coutinho to play out this season and sell him for €40m next season than lose him for €125m right now. What Liverpool needs right now are good players, not money.

In a vaguely parallel story, Diego Costa seems intent to force a move to Atleti, with lawyers exploring new ways to break him out of Chelsea. We are edging very close to the point at which all player contracts are completely meaningless pieces of waste paper once the transfer window opens.

Total agent/player power makes it nearly impossible to build a squad that can expected to last beyond the next transfer window. Agents have an incentive to move players as often as possible, and players can convert the slightest grievance into a transfer request that cannot be ignored.
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But, that can cut both ways, too.

Once a player gets a reputation for being an utterly spoiled brat, with a bottomless sense of entitlement and a capacity to inflate the slightest grievance into justification for pressing football's equivalent of the nuclear button re his team-mates and manager and club, unless his talent remains peerless an accessed effortlessly and translated into the capacity to perform equally well (but fro how long?) in another club or environment, his value - to other managers and potential teammates - will drop. Sometimes precipitously.

At the end of the day, a player has to deliver on his promise or develop the reputation of being too high maintenance to be worth cultivating, wooing, winning and paying.
 
The reason i say should've taken the money is because he clearly wants to go with the transfer request. Forcing the player to stay may look good for the club but in the real world all it does is facilitate a toxic environment. Player doesn't want to be there which means he wont perform at his best since he's lost passion for the club. Its a waste of time for everyone.

Others are saying he has to perform and be professional because of WC. Coutinho will be in the WC squad anyway regardless of anything bar injury. And professionalism doesn't win you matches. Passion and desire does. Also as soon as Liverpool lose a set of matches (which will happen with that defence) the spotlight drops back on Coutinho and the questions will be asked does he still have Barca in his head and is that why he's not playing well.

If i were the board i'd take the money and run. You're not selling to a direct rival. Take the money and go and rescue Draxler from PSG, then put £70m or even £80m on the table for Van Dijk. Both signings would vastly improve the team.

One thing is for certain Liverpool won't get this offer again. And to add salt to injury they maybe be keeping a player that will never be at his best in a Liverpool shirt again.
 
Alphazoid said:
The reason i say should've taken the money is because he clearly wants to go with the transfer request. Forcing the player to stay may look good for the club but in the real world all it does is facilitate a toxic environment. Player doesn't want to be there which means he wont perform at his best since he's lost passion for the club. Its a waste of time for everyone.

Others are saying he has to perform and be professional because of WC. Coutinho will be in the WC squad anyway regardless of anything bar injury. And professionalism doesn't win you matches. Passion and desire does. Also as soon as Liverpool lose a set of matches (which will happen with that defence) the spotlight drops back on Coutinho and the questions will be asked does he still have Barca in his head and is that why he's not playing well.

If i were the board i'd take the money and run. You're not selling to a direct rival. Take the money and go and rescue Draxler from PSG, then put £70m or even £80m on the table for Van Dijk. Both signings would vastly improve the team.

One thing is for certain Liverpool won't get this offer again. And to add salt to injury they maybe be keeping a player that will never be at his best in a Liverpool shirt again.
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Sure, but if I was a buyer (and paying that sort of money) I would have questions to ask of the player's motivation.

How long will this "passion" exist when he is playing for me, or will he just throw a fit of the sulks when an even bigger offer comes along in six months? What do I have a right to expect from someone who signs a contract?

I'm not sure that the sort of "talent" that can turn motivation off at the proverbial drop of a hat, is capable of the sort of real "passion" (unless it is ego) that you describe.

And, certainly, as this is a team sport, future team mates also have a right to ask questions concerning the genuine commitment (to the new club) of someone who threw such sulks at their last club or two.
 
Real and Barca rarely have to worry about these issues though. Fact is they're at the top of the pyramid. Hence 99% of the time they get rid of players and not vice versa.
 
I agree that Coutinho is likely going to have to be sold to Barca, but I disagree that it has to be in this window. Players should not be allowed to disrupt an entire squad just because another deal in another league has cause another squad to have a hole in the roster and a pile of cash. The lateness of the Neymar sale is Barca's problem, not Liverpool's.

And, taking Scepticalscribe's point, I think it is fair to ask a player to be professional and not jump ship at an awkward moment for a club. The agent will be whispering "now or never" but that clearly wasn't the case with Suarez, for example. RB Leipzeig and Southampton are doing that with van Dijk and Keita, Liverpool's big targets, and they may well stay put.

If, absent the Neymar sale, Couthino was perfectly content to play at Liverpool this season, he should still be content to do so now with the understanding that he will be allowed to leave next summer.
 
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