The 2020-2021 Football Thread

[Scepticalscribe]

Extraordinary results today, and, while, unlike many who support Arsenal, I don't have a visceral dislike for Spurs, but I do detest Mr Mourinho, irrespective of what team he manages.

However, I do think that Villa have bought well, and intelligently, and I do not expect them to be in a position where they will need one point to preserve their presence in the Premiership on the last day of the season when this season ends.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Watching the highlights this evening. What absolute shocking defending in so many of the games. I always played in defence. 3 things I was always told.

1. Don’t pass the ball across your goal.
2. Don’t get caught in possession in your own box.
3. If there is no pass available, hoof it up the pitch.
   
   

[automerge]1601852604[/automerge]
It’s really not rocket science is it?

 

[Apple fanboy]

McGuire was terrible today. Captain? I’d not let him make the tea! Don’t get me wrong Spurs were good. But Man U were shocking.

As for Liverpool, when will they learn? If the high line means you are getting caught out, change it up. It doesn’t take teams long to work out how they can get behind them.
Real basic stuff.

 

[circatee]

Wow, what a day for score lines. I guess, tomorrow (5th October 2020), could also prove to be another eventful day.
Welcome to Transfer Deadline Day, people...

 

[Apple fanboy]

Don’t want anyone to leave! Clear off the rest of you vultures!

 

[MagicHAM]

Man, Liverpool did not have a great game the other day. Hammered, but I think external factors may have contributed to the game loss , with two players gone into quarantine for testing positive for COVID-19. Just watched the game again, and yeah one of the Sky News Sports host said it looked like even at the start of the game they were struggling.
Hopefully the two week international break will give them time to reflect though.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Man, Liverpool did not have a great game the other day. Hammered, but I think external factors may have contributed to the game loss , with two players gone into quarantine for testing positive for COVID-19. Just watched the game again, and yeah one of the Sky News Sports host said it looked like even at the start of the game they were struggling.
Hopefully the two week international break will give them time to reflect though.

Seriously? 2 players out is no excuse. We have that and our manager out but we still put 3 past Leicester.
Liverpool defence was woeful. As was Man Utd’s!

 

[Madonepro]

Seriously? 2 players out is no excuse. We have that and our manager out but we still put 3 past Leicester.
Liverpool defence was woeful. As was Man Utd’s!

Quite possible that there is a few more players who are suffering flu like symptoms, I'd expect more positives out of Liverpool, and maybe a slightly longer break.

 

[MagicHAM]

I agree, but hopefully that it won't be the case though. But it's a worrying sign. You gotta think in the overwhelming scheme of whats happening though that players health is more important. I think it did hurt us that we didn't have those key players.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’m sorry but Liverpool probably have more strength in depth than many of the other teams in the PL. The simple fact is none of the rest of your team had COVID (they’ve all been tested!). You just didn’t turn up. It happens. But let’s not try and make excuses for them. It was a poor performance against a Villa side who are much improved since last year.
You’ll bounce back.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I’m sorry but Liverpool probably have more strength in depth than many of the other teams in the PL. The simple fact is none of the rest of your team had COVID (they’ve all been tested!). You just didn’t turn up. It happens. But let’s not try and make excuses for them. It was a poor performance against a Villa side who are much improved since last year.
You’ll bounce back.

I agree, it was woeful defending, purely and simply. From the positive side, on another day Liverpool score a few more and Villa a few less, and we'd be calling it yet another thriller. Fine margins make a big difference at this level.

And of course, losing Mané was a factor. But he absence is not the reason Liverpool lost.

1. Don’t pass the ball across your goal.
2. Don’t get caught in possession in your own box.
3. If there is no pass available, hoof it up the pitch.

Liverpool play a style that bend these rules, that's what I was getting at when I wrote about taking risks. These rules are pretty iron-clad for a squad of average to poor talent. But for elite footballers playing a Klopp-style of pressing, the players have the freedom to play much more dangerously in exchange for the opportunity to stun opponents with lightning transitions and counterattacks. It's only possible when you have defenders and a keeper who can dribble and pass as well as midfielders. Klopp has taken great care (and invested lot of money) to build such a defensive squad.

If playing this way means winning a Champions League and a League title, but also occasionally conceding a bucketful of goals against an average team, many consider it a fair trade. I would, even though I'm still in a sour mood after yesterday.

Another feature of elite footballers is the ability to focus on the next match and put yesterday behind them. That is something Klopp and the boys need to do now, as they prepare for their next matches.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I agree, it was woeful defending, purely and simply. From the positive side, on another day Liverpool score a few more and Villa a few less, and we'd be calling it yet another thriller. Fine margins make a big difference at this level.

And of course, losing Mané was a factor. But he absence is not the reason Liverpool lost.



Liverpool play a style that bend these rules, that's what I was getting at when I wrote about taking risks. These rules are pretty iron-clad for a squad of average to poor talent. But for elite footballers playing a Klopp-style of pressing, the players have the freedom to play much more dangerously in exchange for the opportunity to stun opponents with lightning transitions and counterattacks.

If playing this way means winning a Champions League and a League title, but also occasionally conceding a bucketful of goals against an average team, many consider it a fair trade. I would, even though I'm still in a sour mood after yesterday.

Another feature of elite footballers is the ability to focus on the next match and put yesterday behind them. That is something Klopp and the boys need to do now, as they prepare for their next matches.

Well I was always a below average player!
But yes there are other things you can do. But playing out from the back isn’t working for you, change it up. Doing the same thing for 90 minutes makes no sense if it isn’t working for you. I suppose the signs were there against Leeds.
However I agree with you I’d not want to be Liverpool’s next opponents! I’m sure you’ll bounce right back.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Plus, for Liverpool, the fact that their No 1 goalkeeper is out injured, also strikes me as relevant to this discussion. I suspect that not all of those shots (or deflections) would have gone in had Alisson been playing.

For all the discussion about playing style, passing ability ability and opportunity, truly great teams start with an outstanding player in goal at No1.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Alisson is a world-class player right now, so yes, I don't think Liverpool would have conceded seven with him back there yesterday.

Well I was always a below average player!
But yes there are other things you can do. But playing out from the back isn’t working for you, change it up. Doing the same thing for 90 minutes makes no sense if it isn’t working for you. I suppose the signs were there against Leeds.
However I agree with you I’d not want to be Liverpool’s next opponents! I’m sure you’ll bounce right back.

Liverpool do actually play a lot of "longballs" if you want to call them that - raking diagonals to the wingbacks especially. Other teams have figured this out, so it may be that right now Liverpool are not finding as many outballs as they did previously, leading to more possession in their own final third or the wingbacks having to come back to collect the ball and then dribble - which raises the chances of a mistake leading to a chance.

Thiago will help solve this dilemma by adding creativity in the center of the pitch, though he is out for the moment.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Plus, for Liverpool, the fact that their No 1 goalkeeper is out injured, also strikes me as relevant to this discussion. I suspect that not all of those shots (or deflections) would have gone in had Alisson been playing.

For all the discussion about playing style, passing ability ability and opportunity, truly great teams start with an outstanding player in goal at No1.

I’m not sure Adrian was really to blame (except for the first goal). However playing in front of a keeper who can marshal his defence and give them confidence is important.
Let’s be honest we released Adrian as we didn’t think he was good enough.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

...but enough about Liverpool's abject failure...how about that utter disaster at Old Trafford?

In all seriousness, the Cavani move is not really what is needed just now. Undoubtedly an excellent player, but so was Angel Di Maria, and Pogba, and Sanchez, and a host of other recent flops before they pulled on a Man Utd shirt. The defense is the immediate problem, and Cavani won't address that.

You could argue that Man Utd do need more attackers because some of the current first XI are not producing, and perhaps Cavani will address that issue. But the state of the defensive squad is a more urgent problem, and in the short term no major additions are on the cards.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

...but enough about Liverpool's abject failure...how about that utter disaster at Old Trafford?

In all seriousness, the Cavani move is not really what is needed just now. Undoubtedly an excellent player, but so was Angel Di Maria, and Pogba, and Sanchez, and a host of other recent flops before they pulled on a Man Utd shirt. The defense is the immediate problem, and Cavani won't address that.

You could argue that Man Utd do need more attackers because some of the current first XI are not producing, and perhaps Cavani will address that issue. But the state of the defensive squad is a more urgent problem, and in the short term no major additions are on the cards.

Agreed; the defence - competence, leadership, organisation, responsiveness, - all need attention, whereas some of their forwards are actually very good.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Agreed; the defence - competence, leadership, organisation, responsiveness, - all need attention, whereas some of their forwards are actually very good.

Fernandes - who has until recently been a talisman - was hooked as well, at a time when goals were sorely needed. But OGS seemed to be unsure what to do when he found himself one man and three goals down. Tightening up play was not really going to get him anywhere, and in any case they leaked two more goals.

To be fair he was in an almost irretrievable situation, so there were no good options, but in the second half Man Utd looked like they'd just as soon go home early.

 

[Silencio]

United need depth in attack regardless of position. Cavani gives Martial some needed competition up top, or Martial can play on the left if Rashford needs a break.

Still not sure what United are doing about the right-sided attacker they need. Sancho is well and truly not happening, and the loan move for Dembele seems dead, as well. Talks of a couple of 18 year-old wingers coming in, Amad Traore from Atalanta and that lad Pellistri from Uruguay. Sarr is still a possibility from Watford.

If the PL and UCL had an age limit of, say, 19 years old, United would be title contenders. They have done incredible business fortifying the youth ranks, but their transfer activity at the senior level is more or less criminally negligent.

At least Alex Telles has arrived. Not sure about his defending ability, but he will at least add more potency in attack from the left side, and benching Shaw is addition by subtraction. This also lets Brandon Williams move to RB where he's more comfortable, providing depth and competition for Wan-Bissaka.

I have no idea what to do about the center backs. Hope that Bailly and Tuanzebe can stay fit? They seem the least bad options right now. Bring back Rojo since nobody wants to buy him? Yeeesh. It's a bit much to ask 18 year old Teden Mengi to step in, as bright a prospect as he may be.

Looks like Arsenal are finally landing Thomas Partey. He will improve their midfield immensely. I wish United went in on him, would have filled a gaping void in the squad.

 

[circatee]

Well, looks like we're about to Partey, till 2025...

 

[Apple fanboy]

Looks like Jack Wilsher has left West Ham by mutual consent. Considering how often he’s injured I’ll not be said to lose his wages.
Also a loan deal for Anderson to go to Porto. He’s a good player when he’s in form. But he does have a lot of off games.

 

[circatee]

I really feel bad for him. Reminds me of Jamie Redknapp...

Looks like Jack Wilsher has left West Ham by mutual consent. Considering how often he’s injured I’ll not be said to lose his wages.
Also a loan deal for Anderson to go to Porto. He’s a good player when he’s in form. But he does have a lot of off games.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Looks like Jack Wilsher has left West Ham by mutual consent. Considering how often he’s injured I’ll not be said to lose his wages.
Also a loan deal for Anderson to go to Porto. He’s a good player when he’s in form. But he does have a lot of off games.

I wonder if he'll play at the top level again...he's a risky signing.
I could see him going to League 1 as a player/asst. manager or similar, maybe...

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Interesting comment on BBC website: " Aston Villa have had the best transfer window of any team. I thought they looked at their squad and thought 'we definitely need a goalkeeper, striker and a couple more pinpointed positions.' "

I tend to agree...not getting carried away after one good result, but they were awful just a few weeks ago...

 

[Apple fanboy]

I hear Man U just need a keeper, 4 defenders, 4 midfielders and a couple of strikers. Then they will be sorted!
And so @JamesMike doesn't think we are picking on him...
I hear Liverpool just need a keeper, 4 defenders, 4 midfielders and a couple of strikers. Then they will be sorted!

40 minutes to go folks!