France with a win over Brazil yesterday. Nobody has really laid down a marker in this tournament yet IMO, though the Sweden-Italy result was lopsided.
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The 2022-2023 Football Thread
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Strange thing with this womens world cup, when I read online media articles about the game I keep seeing it written that France and Brazil were written as pre-tournaments favourites to win it but yet nothing about Olympic champions Canada being pre favourites or Euro champions England being pre favourites.
Terrific piece in the Guardian/Observer by Jonathan Wilson entitled "Premier League and Fifa helpless against Saudi juggernaut’s relentless progress"; not just well worth reading but a depressing, thought-provoking and very necessary read.
Football fans do not care were money comes from as long as it brings success to their club. Those looking to buy a club also know by past experiences that no matter how vocal club supporters can be against their club, they never go through with their threats. The biggest example of this is Manchester United, considered one of the top clubs in the world, has a huge fan base and huge global following and when they were bought by the Glazers via which put a huge amount of debt on the club, fans immediately became very vocal that they were not happy with the buy out and they want the Glazers out and still even to this day the calls for Glazers out continues but yet United still fill their stadium and still make huge profits on merchandising which goes to show that fans are buying tickets for the games and buying the club shirts and other merchandise all the whilst calls of Glazers out ring out from the clubs fans.
Those in the football world will look at United and be going 'if the fans were true in their beliefs about the Glazers then the stadium would be empty of United fans and merchandising would constantly be at a lose every month but that never happened. So potential clubs buyers will be thinking it does not matter how much fans will hate them, there will still be fans that will by tickets and buy merchandising. If United fans cannot be bothered to do it, why would other fans.
So even if there is an air of disgust at Saudi ownership and Saudi money coming into the PL, they know deep down the fans do not care no matter how vocal some may be. If fans did what they say they were going to do, owners would have been gone within 2-3 years because there is no way the owners could accept having empty stadiums and no one buying the club merchandise but owners know that is never ever going to happen hence why they can buy whoever they like.
Those in the football world will look at United and be going 'if the fans were true in their beliefs about the Glazers then the stadium would be empty of United fans and merchandising would constantly be at a lose every month but that never happened. So potential clubs buyers will be thinking it does not matter how much fans will hate them, there will still be fans that will by tickets and buy merchandising. If United fans cannot be bothered to do it, why would other fans.
So even if there is an air of disgust at Saudi ownership and Saudi money coming into the PL, they know deep down the fans do not care no matter how vocal some may be. If fans did what they say they were going to do, owners would have been gone within 2-3 years because there is no way the owners could accept having empty stadiums and no one buying the club merchandise but owners know that is never ever going to happen hence why they can buy whoever they like.
Some fans do care where the money comes from. But I agree not enough to affect the bottom line.
Anyway what do we think about Mbappe to Liverpool on loan? Going to happen or not?
Germany beaten by Colombia, that’s a major upset.
I think it’s more complicated than that. I think most fans DO care where the money comes from. But I also think most fans would also rather not think about it because it is complicated and uncomfortable…it’s easier to ‘stick to sports’ and just pretend it’s all fine, or that there’s little we can do, so why bother?
But fans have a choice. You don’t have to accept the status quo, and you don’t have to give these people your money. They are counting on you either being apathetic or feeling the need to ‘support your club’ - financially through TV subscriptions, ticket sales and merchandise sales - in spite of the bad ownership. But you can still be a football fan without doing any of that.
Everyone has to make their own choice, and also recognize that collectively fans have more power than all the owners put together.
I think it’s more complicated than that. I think most fans DO care where the money comes from. But I also think most fans would also rather not think about it because it is complicated and uncomfortable…it’s easier to ‘stick to sports’ and just pretend it’s all fine, or that there’s little we can do, so why bother?
But fans have a choice. You don’t have to accept the status quo, and you don’t have to give these people your money. They are counting on you either being apathetic or feeling the need to ‘support your club’ - financially through TV subscriptions, ticket sales and merchandise sales - in spite of the bad ownership. But you can still be a football fan without doing any of that.
Everyone has to make their own choice, and also recognize that collectively fans have more power than all the owners put together.
Utd have gotten Hojlund. Taking their spending to around €190m and counting. Now focusing on Amrabat
Arsenal now in for David Raya after talks collapsed with Bayern. Arteta probably wants a decent backup to either push or overtake Ramsdale who does have an error in him.
Although i wouldn't have thought it was an urgent need compared to other positions
Arsenal now in for David Raya after talks collapsed with Bayern. Arteta probably wants a decent backup to either push or overtake Ramsdale who does have an error in him.
Although i wouldn't have thought it was an urgent need compared to other positions
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Nothing new that some sports-stars and/or celebrities make deals with 😈 for 'money, power and success'. Some grow extremely bad vibes out of fame. Just the forms for how it changes with other things today.
One can wonder how much is enough, and what some people are willing to sacrifice for fame and fortune at times?
I am definitely not generally judging anyone, but I think it's healthy to question motives behind human behaviors. Nor am I accusing people that are wealthy in general either. People with ethics can manage the effects lots of money can have on characters, and still be great people, and people totally without ethics turn the other way around.
I haven’t been following it very closely but I am skeptical to say the least.
The only logic behind such a move would be that Mbappe’s relationship with PSG is so irretrievable that he can’t play for them this season, but PSG just won’t sell to Real.
He would demand enormous wages, and even if PSG covered most of them he would be expensive.
Next, Klopp is not a short-termist and such a move would fly in the face of FSG’s typical recruitment strategy.
Finally, Mbappe’s introduction into an already crowded group of attacking players would complicate rather than clarify Klopp’s choices for setting up the squad. Are we giving up on Nunez or Jota or Diaz?
So while anything can happen in football, this rumor sounds like loose talk or bored journalists to me. Or Mbappe’s agent laying down a smokescreen.
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Japan absolutely trashed Spain in the WWC. They've been pretty strong in the group stage, so they're one to watch out for in the knockouts.
Canada was underwhelming the entire tournament and have been eliminated. Happy to see Nigeria advance.
That 3AM kickoff for Portugal / USA is not going to work for me. Might be able to catch a bit of China / England at 7AM, though.
Canada was underwhelming the entire tournament and have been eliminated. Happy to see Nigeria advance.
That 3AM kickoff for Portugal / USA is not going to work for me. Might be able to catch a bit of China / England at 7AM, though.
This tournament feels really open at the moment, which is a good thing. USA are still in a good position but have yet to really demonstrate they are ready to go up a few gears. Personally I think maybe expectations are a little high given the number of WC first-timers, but then again USA have a formidable talent pool and some of the world's best players, so they should be trying to win it.
The 'big' teams all need to step up if they are to hit their expected levels of performance, but right now there are major opportunities for less favored teams to make a splash. Lots still to play for.
Not an easy group but we should have won/tied with The Netherlands. That was the only possible way forward.
That may say sound a bit too much to ask but the NL scored one goal and put the game on ice. It wasn't anywhere near what one would expect from the vice champion.
And after the Netherlands USA tie the Americans can't take it easy so I guess our girls will be probably coming home sooner rather than latter.
Still, that was our first go at this.
don’t give up on the Portugal girls just yet. All they need to do is beat the Americans tomorrow morning. Which is doable.
Well, I haven't. They are playing well. Let's see if something can happen.
The USA clearly has years and years of work which shows on speed and physical prowess (for lack of better wording).
But I expected more on the technical side.
Seeing the news articles about Hojlund going to United, it got me thinking has United been ripped off? Hojlund (20 years old) got his first senior international cap last September I think and has only scored 9 goals in 32 games for his then club and he's been valued at £64 million. Now compare that to Haaland who went to city for £51 million, 21 years old, already a proven goal scorer for his then club and a proven international.
What do you lot think. Did United get caught out with the 'United tax' because when United come calling players always seem to be overvalued. I ask this because Hojlund is no where near the striker quality that Haaland was when he moved to City but yet Hojlund is valued more that what Haaland was.
What do you lot think. Did United get caught out with the 'United tax' because when United come calling players always seem to be overvalued. I ask this because Hojlund is no where near the striker quality that Haaland was when he moved to City but yet Hojlund is valued more that what Haaland was.
Haaland was a lot more expensive than the superficial news make him look. The release clause was low (60M€) but there was the agent/father fee and the fact he went almost directly to the team top earners.
But you are right, in fact there isn't only an United transfer fee, but an EPL fee.
Smaller clubs know there is money to be had and that English clubs are not always that good at choosing (Martial... lol and particularly Maguire even more lol) so hefty prices tags are to be expected. And when there is a multi year large release clause contract in place there is no such thing as player asks to be transferred. Even the players know when the club expects to get paid. One can always develop or find its own talent at an young age.
But you are right, in fact there isn't only an United transfer fee, but an EPL fee.
Smaller clubs know there is money to be had and that English clubs are not always that good at choosing (Martial... lol and particularly Maguire even more lol) so hefty prices tags are to be expected. And when there is a multi year large release clause contract in place there is no such thing as player asks to be transferred. Even the players know when the club expects to get paid. One can always develop or find its own talent at an young age.
That was a very tough game for the world no.1 ranked USA team. Portugal gave them one hell of a game, well done Portugal. England should come away with at least a draw against China which means they would top the group meaning they would get to play Nigeria who are on fire at the moment. That would be a very tough game for England. Now if England were to loose and Denmark win their game it would mean England, China and Denmark would all be on 6 points which would mean goal difference would be the decider. What a turn up for the books if that was to happen.
Just did a quick check. City were ripped off in my opinion as well. They trigger the 60 millions euro clause in his contract BUT they also had to pay a massive 40 million euros in agent fee's (to the agency he is signed up with and to his father). Somehow I doubt the agency and his father did enough work to justify that hefty agent fee!!!. It is no wonder many clubs see agents as the scourge of football.
Yeah, they made us proud. And with that almost made it they are already a true Selecção
.Dortmund was probably the one that came out worst. Even with a 10% agent fee (Jorge Mendes style) they would have got a better deal from what would be a 100M€ player in the current climate.
Thanks, I've just read the article and I tend to agree somehow.
If, and that's a big if, Saudi clubs keep this level of spending they may end up attracting younger players.
I think about it this way: what is prestige? Is it history? No. Prestige is nowadays, prestige - in a competition - is who your opponents are.
The Champions' League and the Premier League have prestige because all the world's best players are there, but if, and that's another big if, the Saudis manage to attract younger players, then their league will be the world's most prestigious, and richest and most coveted by players and managers. (except for the World Cup, probably)
A few days ago I've read an interview with Sebastian Giovinco, he played both in China and Saudi Arabia, he said that in Saudi Arabia there's passion about football, and he feels the Saudi have an actual project concerning football, he said that he and his family didn't have any problems or restrictions, but he was very honest about it, he said "Should you be offered three, or four times what you're making, wouldn't you go to Saudi Arabia?".
If they manage to attract younger players it will also be easy for them to sell TV rights all over the world, because that would be the competition that paying football fans will want to see.
In Europe we have laws, regulations but they don't have those in Saudi Arabia, allowing their clubs to spend whatever they want; they could also take a hint from American leagues like the NBA and the NFL, allow the strong players to be spread over a higher number of teams, this will make for a more competitive tournament, a higher number of sellable matches and, in turn, more money.
As for fans caring where the money comes from, I can tell you fans don't really care. Milan's fans didn't care about Berlusconi's shenanigans, Inter Milan's fans didn't care the Moratti family was polluting entire areas with their business, Juventus' fans didn't care the Agnelli family, via FIAT, was evading taxes, using a huge amount of public money to boost their business and "forced" Italy to rely on road transportation - despite it being less efficient, more expensive and polluting than railways - so that FIAT could sell more vehicles, and ended up closing plants, fire thousands of people, making other thousands lose their jobs when they moved manufacturing abroad. Not that any of those unethical practices are nowhere near those of Saudi Arabia.
Football has always been like that, richer players dominate because they can buy and pay the best players, the problem nowadays is that the amount of money required to just compete is astounding, no business conglomerate or corporation can possibly compete with countries.
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Saudi Arabia is still a relatively small country.
Even with limitless spending there is no way they can siphon all the talent development from a 500 million people continent (excluding Russia just because and Turkey because they could find some cultural advantages). And there is South America and Africa.
And this talking about historical football countries. The USA for exemple seem to be developing organically in a sustainable way and they do have a large market to fuel themselves.
Even with limitless spending there is no way they can siphon all the talent development from a 500 million people continent (excluding Russia just because and Turkey because they could find some cultural advantages). And there is South America and Africa.
And this talking about historical football countries. The USA for exemple seem to be developing organically in a sustainable way and they do have a large market to fuel themselves.
@fanboy-ish: I think that there is one other element re Saudi Arabia - @Apple fanboy mentioned it, and, I suspect that it may have been a factor in Messi's decision not to take the proverbial Saudi shilling - and that is the treatment of women.
Some women will never agree to live in Saudi, no matter what the financial allure or temptations offered to their partners or spouses, because of the restrictions imposed on them in that society.
Now, granted, this was not football, but I do know of medical families, - I was friendly with one of the sons at university - where the husband (an exceptional cardiologist) had chosen to work in Saudi, earned a stratospheric and steadily increasing salary, and where the Saudi hosts kept raising what they offered in order to retain his services (such as offering paid university educations to the entire family wherever they chose to study); the women in that family (who were phoned regularly, by the sheikh in question, who kept attempting to persuade them to travel to the Kingdom) adamantly refused to set foot on its soil with the explanation that they didn't like the way women were (and are) treated in that society.
Not everyone is for sale.
Now, I won't deny that particular situation did not put enormous stress on their marriage, but it survived, if a little unsteadily.
Again, agreed, many if not most fans are morally myopic, or blind, to sources of funding success if success can be guaranteed on the football pitch and thus seek - wrongly, to my mind - to try to confine the ensuring discussion to being "only about football", as if football can be discussed in a moral vacuum, devoid of, or stripped of, a wider socio-economic and political (and moral) context.
However, I will say that I would be disgusted beyond words if Arsenal were to sell themselves to the sportswashing world, and that my (life-long) support of the club would not just be compromised, but would cease at that point.
Not much, agreed, but one can still take some sort of a stand.
Saudi Arabia has one major thing that goes against the traditions of being a footballer and that is strict islamic law. That means no alcohol, no public displays of affection, dress code must be modest (no showing shoulders or knees, no tight fitting clothing, no clothing that shows profane language or images). Shorts and short sleeve shirts cannot be worn in many parts of the country, especially government buildings. A person is not allowed to swear or make a rude gesture. A person has to be careful of what they photograph and what they post on the internet. The country has zero tolerance towards drugs. With all that said, just how exactly is the traditional footballer supposed to behave, like a monk???
We've all seen it and heard it, the huge majority of footballers like to party, they like to drink, they like to do drugs, they like to pick up women and have a good time with them, all things that are not allowed in Saudi Arabia. Their football clubs may offer very good wages but the countries culture and society does not support the behavior of today's footballers. I seriously doubt young up and coming footballers are going to want to play in the Saudi league once they learn of the huge amount of restrictions they will face once inside the country.
We've all seen it and heard it, the huge majority of footballers like to party, they like to drink, they like to do drugs, they like to pick up women and have a good time with them, all things that are not allowed in Saudi Arabia. Their football clubs may offer very good wages but the countries culture and society does not support the behavior of today's footballers. I seriously doubt young up and coming footballers are going to want to play in the Saudi league once they learn of the huge amount of restrictions they will face once inside the country.
I used to work with a guy who once used to be an electrician working for a company that installed small substations for businesses. The company won a contract with a Saudi firm and this guy would be contracted for 6 months at a time to go out to Saudi Arabia with a small team of men to install the companies substations. He used to tell us that he could do virtually nothing in the country expect work eat and sleep because he was not allowed to do anything else. He could not drink or take drugs, he could not go out and have a good time dancing and singing with females because flirting and stuff like that with someone who is not your wife is not allowed. So all he did was work, eat and sleep and at the end of the 6 months come home with a huge huge wage. He used to say, he loved the money but hated being over there because it was ever so restrictive.
All these footballers going over there have no idea what they have let themselves in for.