The 2022-2023 Football Thread

[Scepticalscribe]

I used to work with a guy who once used to be an electrician working for a company that installed small substations for businesses. The company won a contract with a Saudi firm and this guy would be contracted for 6 months at a time to go out to Saudi Arabia with a small team of men to install the companies substations. He used to tell us that he could do virtually nothing in the country expect work eat and sleep because he was not allowed to do anything else. He could not drink or take drugs, he could not go out and have a good time dancing and singing with females because flirting and stuff like that with someone who is not your wife is not allowed. So all he did was work, eat and sleep and at the end of the 6 months come home with a huge huge wage. He used to say, he loved the money but hated being over there because it was ever so restrictive.

All these footballers going over there have no idea what they have let themselves in for.

Agreed.

That doctor deeply disliked Saudi Arabia, while his wife loathed the place.

Another doctor I know - he is a first cousin of mine, a radiologist - spent some time in Saudi Arabia, a few years, gaining much valuable experience, and earning enough money to subsequently purchase a very nice house.

Again, his wife - quite rightly - refused to travel there; their solution was to negotiate very generous leave arrangements, which meant that the guy travelled home every fortnight for a long week-end; basically, he commuted to Saudi on a fortnightly basis.

One might make the argument that "one will do anything for the money", - but, is it fair to expect your spouse (of either gender - women are second class, well, actually, tenth class, citizens, but anything on the LGBT spectrum is actually illegal) to have to endure such conditions?

The old argument 'if they loved you enough' cuts both ways.

As a woman, I will say there is no sum sufficiently large to compensate for the lack of rights and the limited and extraordinarily restricted life one would be expected to lead there.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Saudi Arabia has one major thing that goes against the traditions of being a footballer and that is strict islamic law. That means no alcohol, no public displays of affection, dress code must be modest (no showing shoulders or knees, no tight fitting clothing, no clothing that shows profane language or images). Shorts and short sleeve shirts cannot be worn in many parts of the country, especially government buildings. A person is not allowed to swear or make a rude gesture. A person has to be careful of what they photograph and what they post on the internet. The country has zero tolerance towards drugs. With all that said, just how exactly is the traditional footballer supposed to behave, like a monk???

We've all seen it and heard it, the huge majority of footballers like to party, they like to drink, they like to do drugs, they like to pick up women and have a good time with them, all things that are not allowed in Saudi Arabia. Their football clubs may offer very good wages but the countries culture and society does not support the behavior of today's footballers. I seriously doubt young up and coming footballers are going to want to play in the Saudi league once they learn of the huge amount of restrictions they will face once inside the country.

Very good post.

I have worked in a number - six, to date - of different Islamic countries (with greatly differing degrees of how the culture has an impact on the society, some are very secular, others are more strict, some have internal differences - some regions are more relaxed than others, etc), and western men are always astonished to learn that some elements of the strict Islamic dress code also applies to them (such as no shorts, no t-shirts, except in your own private place and space).

 

[laptech]

Very good post.

I have worked in a number - six, to date - of different Islamic countries (with greatly differing degrees of how the culture has an impact on the society, some are very secular, others are more strict, some have internal differences - some regions are more relaxed than others, etc), and western men are always astonished to learn that some elements of the strict Islamic dress code also applies to them (such as no shorts, no t-shirts, except in your own private place and space).

The large sums of money they offer to outsiders is a kin to keeping them silent on the negativity they view of the country because they know people will say 'how can you make negative views when you accepted such huge sums of money from them'. It makes it very difficult for them to argue against that, hence why you hear very little about Saudi Arabia from those who have lived and worked in the country.

A few weeks after Ronaldo had been in the country it was reported that he had broken numerous laws, not dressed properly, drinking and language (it was in one of the newspapers at the time, I remember reading it whilst traveling on a train) but he was allowed to get away with it. Yes Ronaldo is very very high profile but I wonder how many outsider footballers have been arrested or fined for breaking the countries laws but yet no one outside the country knows about it because it has been kept secret. Also, many footballers have chequered pasts so could this affect their visa into the country?

Also, have you noticed that no matter where Ronaldo went in Europe, the media was always there and reporting about him but since he has been in Saudi Arabia, there has been virtually nothing, only snippets here and there.

 

[timber]

Just the fact that Ronaldo isn't married and lives in sin (ahah) just says it all.
Even in Portugal were he gets away with a lot he was recently forced to dismantle a sort of rooftop in his Lisbon penthouse and change it to comply with city regulations.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

@laptech and @timber: You both make excellent points not just about how restrictive laws, practices, etiquette and dress codes are in Saudi Arabia (which are most restrictive for women - and are most restrictively applied - to women, but not exclusively so, as some restrictions apply to everyone - the concept of a shared public space is almost unknown) - but also about how this may affect the lives of footballers, some of whom have become used to feeling that they can behave almost with impunity and that they are immune from some of the consequences of their actions and behaviour.

 

[laptech]

WWC England are through but they now have a tough game against the highly impressive Nigerians.

As for Saudi Arabia, we all know how footballers can be (we've seen enough press articles) so it will be interesting to see how footballers agents behave because again, we all know via past press articles that agents are out to get as much money for themselves as they can so how honest will an agent be to their football client about how restrictive it can be in the country knowing if the footballer say's no, the agent can kiss goodbye to the large sum of money the agent would get from the percentage clauses they add to the contract. So, do you think an agent would be honest? or do you think an agent will say as little as possible letting the footballer find out for themselves and then make up some excuses when the footballer asks the agent why they didn't warn them about such and such which would have got them saying no to a transfer in the first place.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

WWC England are through but they now have a tough game against the highly impressive Nigerians.

As for Saudi Arabia, we all know how footballers can be (we've seen enough press articles) so it will be interesting to see how footballers agents behave because again, we all know via past press articles that agents are out to get as much money for themselves as they can so how honest will an agent be to their football client about how restrictive it can be in the country knowing if the footballer say's no, the agent can kiss goodbye to the large sum of money the agent would get from the percentage clauses they add to the contract. So, do you think an agent would be honest? or do you think an agent will say as little as possible letting the footballer find out for themselves and then make up some excuses when the footballer asks the agent why they didn't warn them about such and such which would have got them saying no to a transfer in the first place.

Whatever about agents, their partners, both male and female, may well harbour considerable concerns (with good reason) and could well express them.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Saudi Arabia has one major thing that goes against the traditions of being a footballer and that is strict islamic law. That means no alcohol, no public displays of affection, dress code must be modest (no showing shoulders or knees, no tight fitting clothing, no clothing that shows profane language or images). Shorts and short sleeve shirts cannot be worn in many parts of the country, especially government buildings. A person is not allowed to swear or make a rude gesture. A person has to be careful of what they photograph and what they post on the internet. The country has zero tolerance towards drugs. With all that said, just how exactly is the traditional footballer supposed to behave, like a monk???

We've all seen it and heard it, the huge majority of footballers like to party, they like to drink, they like to do drugs, they like to pick up women and have a good time with them, all things that are not allowed in Saudi Arabia. Their football clubs may offer very good wages but the countries culture and society does not support the behavior of today's footballers. I seriously doubt young up and coming footballers are going to want to play in the Saudi league once they learn of the huge amount of restrictions they will face once inside the country.

I have a problem with the huge majority of footballers like to party.
I mean a few decades ago I think it was more prevalent, but these days many are top athletes who live quieter lives than the few on social media that certainly make it seem like most like to go out and party.

Wasn’t it Alan Sherar who wrote after scoring the winning goal in a match at Euro 96 went home and painted the fence?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Agreed.

That doctor deeply disliked Saudi Arabia, while his wife loathed the place.

Another doctor I know - he is a first cousin of mine, a radiologist - spent some time in Saudi Arabia, a few years, gaining much valuable experience, and earning enough money to subsequently purchase a very nice house.

Again, his wife - quite rightly - refused to travel there; their solution was to negotiate very generous leave arrangements, which meant that the guy travelled home every fortnight for a long week-end; basically, he commuted to Saudi on a fortnightly basis.

One might make the argument that "one will do anything for the money", - but, is it fair to expect your spouse (of either gender - women are second class, well, actually, tenth class, citizens, but anything on the LGBT spectrum is actually illegal) to have to endure such conditions?

The old argument 'if they loved you enough' cuts both ways.

As a woman, I will say there is no sum sufficiently large to compensate for the lack of rights and the limited and extraordinarily restricted life one would be expected to lead there.

I would never work in any country where Mrs AFB wasn’t treated as an equal. I have no interest in taking drugs (and truth be told very little alcohol consumed these days), but I still couldn’t live there.
The money just isn’t worth it.
Hopefully many footballers will feel the same.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Jurgen Klopp has - mercifully - rubbished the Mbappe rumors. I should correct my previous post - I thought perhaps journalists or agents were behind the rumors. Still possible, but PSG are so desperate to sell him this summer I suspect they might have slipped that story to a lazy news outlet to try and stir up some dust.

The fact is, Real can get him on a free by doing nothing. Mbappe can get his Real move by doing nothing. So that's what is going to happen. He'll slow-roll his way through the next season at PSG, hated by the fans, laughing all the way to the bank and to Madrid next season.

By the way, it's also worth point out that by simply doing nothing on the transfer front, Mbappe also earns a EUR 40m loyalty bonus from PSG today.

Loyalty. 🤣🤣🤣

I would never work in any country where Mrs AFB wasn’t treated as an equal.

I previously wrote that I'd have to think about it if offered Saudi money at the levels these players are being offered. And I still say I would; I am human - not a saint. The chance to make ten lifetimes' worth of money in a couple years would give anyone pause. But at the end of day, I would never for a moment truly consider getting myself into a situation where Lady Blackadder has to live in a state like Saudi Arabia, regardless of the money on offer. Aside from the fact that she wouldn't tolerate it, I would not feel comfortable with it for a single moment.

I consider the thought of living in a country in 2023 that employs morality police to be insane. We joke about them in the west, but in Saudi Arabia they are very real and completely horrifying.

 

[timber]

Not talking about footballers but for some people it could mean a paid mortgage or at least a very good head start in life.

So I won't point fingers at people that have a go at this.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Jurgen Klopp has - mercifully - rubbished the Mbappe rumors. I should correct my previous post - I thought perhaps journalists or agents were behind the rumors. Still possible, but PSG are so desperate to sell him this summer I suspect they might have slipped that story to a lazy news outlet to try and stir up some dust.

The fact is, Real can get him on a free by doing nothing. Mbappe can get his Real move by doing nothing. So that's what is going to happen. He'll slow-roll his way through the next season at PSG, hated by the fans, laughing all the way to the bank and to Madrid next season.

By the way, it's also worth point out that by simply doing nothing on the transfer front, Mbappe also earns a EUR 40m loyalty bonus from PSG today.

Loyalty. 🤣🤣🤣



I previously wrote that I'd have to think about it if offered Saudi money at the levels these players are being offered. And I still say I would; I am human - not a saint. The chance to make ten lifetimes' worth of money in a couple years would give anyone pause. But at the end of day, I would never for a moment truly consider getting myself into a situation where Lady Blackadder has to live in a state like Saudi Arabia, regardless of the money on offer. Aside from the fact that she wouldn't tolerate it, I would not feel comfortable with it for a single moment.

I consider the thought of living in a country in 2023 that employs morality police to be insane. We joke about them in the west, but in Saudi Arabia they are very real and completely horrifying.

So I could except if you had the choice between what they are throwing at top footballers over there and what I currently earn I could put up with it for a bit and be set for life.
But realistically how long would I be happy living apart from Mrs AFB, my soulmate.

If the choice was £120k a week to play in the PL versus £350k a week over there, then I think it would be easy to resist personally.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

So I could except if you had the choice between what they are throwing at top footballers over there and what I currently earn I could put up with it for a bit and be set for life.
But realistically how long would I be happy living apart from Mrs AFB, my soulmate.

That's the thing...if the Saudis offered to double, triple, or even quadruple my current salary I'd tell them to go pound sand...even 400% of my salary is a relative pittance for selling one's soul. If they were offering me 350k a week, well, let's just say that's a great deal more than I currently earn - or will ever earn. If it was just for a summer or something, and I came out of it with millions, Lady Blackadder would probably be tempted to drive me to the airport herself. But even then she would stay behind. And there would never be any question of going there permanently.

I'd still like to think I'd refuse even millions to go there and be their stooge. Because there's no getting around the hypocrisy involved with making that choice. The modern world has made hypocrites out of all of us to some extent. But if we are to remain civilized we still, each of us, have to draw the line somewhere. I don't need to get rich. I am not wealthy but all my basic needs are being met. So I don't need their millions, or the stink of their corruption.

If the choice was £120k a week to play in the PL versus £350k a week over there, then I think it would be easy to resist personally.

I agree. This is why I have no problem criticizing players who go over there - they are already quite wealthy. They don't need the money.

 

[Apple fanboy]

That's the thing...if the Saudis offered to double, triple, or even quadruple my current salary I'd tell them to go pound sand...even 400% of my salary is a relative pittance for selling one's soul. If they were offering me 350k a week, well, let's just say that's a great deal more than I currently earn - or will ever earn. If it was just for a summer or something, and I came out of it with millions, Lady Blackadder would probably be tempted to drive me to the airport herself. But even then she would stay behind. And there would never be any question of going there permanently.

I'd still like to think I'd refuse even millions to go there and be their stooge. Because there's no getting around the hypocrisy involved with making that choice. The modern world has made hypocrites out of all of us to some extent. But if we are to remain civilized we still, each of us, have to draw the line somewhere. I don't need to get rich. I have everything I need right now. So I don't need their millions, or the stink of their corruption.



I agree. This is why I have no problem criticizing players who go over there - they are already quite wealthy. They don't need the money.

Exactly. They are already millionaires several times over already.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

So the USA are through the group stage, but in a very unconvincing manner. I need to go back and watch some highlights again before forming a firm opinion, but I think my initial fear that this is an inexperienced team lacking in game time as a unit is showing. Portugal were, to be fair, very good for their point, and much will be made of their late shot that hit the post.

My gut instinct is that USA haven't gotten out of second gear because they don't have a third gear. This team may shine in a future tournament, but I think they will struggle to go far in this one. With that being said, they still have some incredible talent in the squad and tournament football is often a game of moments rather than constant domination. If a few of the veterans can really step up, with grit and a bit of luck you never know what could happen. But to do that they'll have to get past the Dutch Sweden.

 

[laptech]

So the USA are through the group stage, but in a very unconvincing manner. I need to go back and watch some highlights again before forming a firm opinion, but I think my initial fear that this is an inexperienced team lacking in game time as a unit is showing. Portugal were, to be fair, very good for their point, and much will be made of their late shot that hit the post.

My gut instinct is that USA haven't gotten out of second gear because they don't have a third gear. This team may shine in a future tournament, but I think they will struggle to go far in this one. With that being said, they still have some incredible talent in the squad and tournament football is often a game of moments rather than constant domination. If a few of the veterans can really step up, with grit and a bit of luck you never know what could happen. But to do that they'll have to get past the Dutch.

The shock for me so far is Australia beating Canada 4-0. Canada is by no means a weak or inexperienced side, they are the Olympic champions which say's a lot about the teams level quality and yet they went down 4-0!!!. What a shocker.

As for the rest, now we will begin to see what the teams are made of now they are coming up against decent opposition.

USA will be playing who ever finishes top in Group G which is likely to be Sweden which would a very tough game for USA in my opinion.

 

[Silencio]

The USWNT is crippled by some key injuries and a fairly clueless head coach. Presumably they'll be playing Sweden in the knockout round, and I don't expect they'll get past them.

In the next major tournament, under a better coach and with a full generational transition, the USWNT could be competitive again. The world has caught up, and the USWNT can't rely on superior athleticism and raw talent anymore.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The USWNT is crippled by some key injuries and a fairly clueless head coach. Presumably they'll be playing Sweden in the knockout round, and I don't expect they'll get past them.

In the next major tournament, under a better coach and with a full generational transition, the USWNT could be competitive again. The world has caught up, and the USWNT can't rely on superior athleticism and raw talent anymore.

Yes, I mistakenly though the Netherlands were up for USA next but it will be Sweden...And they will win.

Andonovski hasn't made any big blunders but hasn't distinguished himself either, managing what is in paper still one of the best sides on the planet, albeit one in transition.

 

[laptech]

The USWNT is crippled by some key injuries and a fairly clueless head coach. Presumably they'll be playing Sweden in the knockout round, and I don't expect they'll get past them.

In the next major tournament, under a better coach and with a full generational transition, the USWNT could be competitive again. The world has caught up, and the USWNT can't rely on superior athleticism and raw talent anymore.

I am sure I read an online news article that said the USA team had taken 14 new players who is their first tournament. I am sure if the USA and England had their usual full team of players, both teams would be force to reckon with but as both are affected by injuries and retirements, whilst both full of very talented players, they both are teams who's players have not gelled together. Watching France and Brazil play I am still puzzled why some critics picked them as pre tournament favourites.

 

[daneoni]

Remeber that £120k/w is heavily taxed whereas the £350k/w largely isn't which makes a difference.

As Stephen Fry says, we can't judge these people because we dont know their financial burdens/circumstances. You can only state your case and move on.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Remeber that £120k/w is heavily taxed whereas the £350k/w largely isn't which makes a difference.

As Stephen Fry says, we can't judge these people because we dont know their financial burdens/circumstances. You can only state your case and move on.

Yes, we absolutely can judge them. The reasons are obvious, as far as I am concerned. Not wanting to pay taxes is a very unconvincing excuse for...anything, really.

 

[daneoni]

The tax thing was more an illustration of financial burden. Making 129k/w sounds great on paper until you start taking fees and taxation into account.

I don't agree with going to Saudi but i won't judge people for doing it either. Its their call to make and no one really has any moral high ground to stand on

 

[Lord Blackadder]

No one really has any moral high ground to stand on

Hmm. Next you’ll be trying to convince me that a ref can’t blow his whistle if he’s ever committed a foul himself.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The tax thing was more an illustration of financial burden. Making 129k/w sounds great on paper until you start taking fees and taxation into account.

I don't agree with going to Saudi but i won't judge people for doing it either. Its their call to make and no one really has any moral high ground to stand on

So what would the tax be? 40%? So I don’t know how they can get by on £72,000 a week after tax!
Plus they have accountants who’ll help them pay less than that. Plus outside sponsorships and the rest.
Not sure it still doesn’t sound great on paper.
The average UK salary is about £33,000 a year.

 

[laptech]

The tax thing was more an illustration of financial burden. Making 129k/w sounds great on paper until you start taking fees and taxation into account.

I don't agree with going to Saudi but i won't judge people for doing it either. Its their call to make and no one really has any moral high ground to stand on

Of course we can judge and put ourselves on high morale ground when footballers advocate for years their support for LGBTQ+ and/or the rights for women and human rights and then they go an move to work in a country that is against everything the footballer has stood for, just to get more money because that is basically what it is, the need for more money. How can any footballer with a female partner look their partner in the eye and tell them it is ok for them to live and work in a country that treats women as 2nd class citizens because moving to work there is basically saying they agree with it and are prepared to turn a blind eye to it for a price. How is that going to make the man's female partner feel? Granted there will be some couples who will not give a damn because the money would set them up for life but that is the decision for them to make. It should still allow us to say they have no morals and no principles and if they do, those morals and principles can be bought at a price and THAT is what the Saudi clubs are doing.

It is basically the premise from the movie Indecent Proposal. How much money would we be prepared to take to sell our morals, our principles, our dignity, our soul. Obviously we are finding out with the footballers going to Saudi clubs how much it takes for them.