The 2022-2023 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

Lol you criticising British Government yet Americans benefit most from Saudi money by selling them Made In America military equipment.

Don't take it personal. There is plenty of blame to spread around, and pointing the finger in one direction does not preclude it from being pointed elsewhere. But this isn't the thread for that.

 

[Sal09]

Don't take it personal. There is plenty of blame to spread around, and pointing the finger in one direction does not preclude it from being pointed elsewhere. But this isn't the thread for that.

No offence taken. Like you said there is plenty of blame to spread around.

Lets just stick to talking football lol.

The beautiful game.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Yup. Lets just stick to football 🤔.

'Football' includes a global network of players, owners, governing bodies, and financiers. It isn't the 1890s anymore.

I don't like it any more than you do - I am mad that I can't have heroes, that the game isn't the escape from reality it once was. But just 'sticking to football' nowadays means actively ignoring all the crap that ruining football. And I just can't do that.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

Nobody has mentioned it yet, but USA Women are struggling in their WC campaign. A tough draw against a tough Dutch squad is not laying down a marker. With 14 new faces in the squad though, it's a transition year so expecting a world title is, IMO, ambitious even if it is possible.

Australia lost to Nigeria today, they have work to do to get out of their group.


You do you. 'Football' includes a global network of players, owners, governing bodies, and financiers, last time I checked. It isn't the 1890s anymore.

The Aussies are in meltdown over this result.
There were notable absences from their squad due to training ground injuries after an "intense and physical" training session the day before the match and of course the talisman Kerr is out with an ongoing injury.
So both host nations have to come up with wins to guarantee a move into the knockout phase.

Plenty of good football being played in front of quite large crowds, too - apparently (despite concerns just before the tournament) ticket sales have far exceeded expectations. I can't help but feel that has a lot to do with the high quality of football on display from a lot of the teams (yes, some of it has been dire and you wonder how some teams qualified, but you can't take away from the good teams, who are in the majority).

 

[Lord Blackadder]

The Aussies are in meltdown over this result.
There were notable absences from their squad due to training ground injuries after an "intense and physical" training session the day before the match and of course the talisman Kerr is out with an ongoing injury.
So both host nations have to come up with wins to guarantee a move into the knockout phase.

Plenty of good football being played in front of quite large crowds, too - apparently (despite concerns just before the tournament) ticket sales have far exceeded expectations. I can't help but feel that has a lot to do with the high quality of football on display from a lot of the teams (yes, some of it has been dire and you wonder how some teams qualified, but you can't take away from the good teams, who are in the majority).

I haven't been able to watch matches due to to not having Fox. But the highlights look good.

The women's game has really come on in the last decade. Some of the matches are a little slow-paced, but that's something you see in international tournaments in the men's game too. More and more nations are investing and the development is there to see.

And most interestingly, the game is drawing big crowds, just as we have seen in England and the USA.

 

[Rafterman]

(yes, some of it has been dire and you wonder how some teams qualified, but you can't take away from the good teams, who are in the majority).

THe US got a head start with Title IX legislation that pumped up women sports. Other countries are just catching up. And many countries do not have great human rights treatment of women. So, sadly, the bottom of the standings don't have the depth the men do.

 

[laptech]

Football is a business now and has been for sometime and as with any business you need to look at what is and is not profitable to know where to put your money and with many countries not having the money to strongly support both a men's and women's team or even able to afford a women's team, the men's team will always be seen as the profitable one, regardless of how well a woman's team does.

For example, the Women's USA team who are numerous world cup holders has out performed the USA men's team for years but get's nowhere near the same financial support as the men's team does. The same goes for the Canadian Women's team who are the current Olympic champions, they persistently out perform the men's team but again like with the USA they do not get no where near the same financial support as the men's team. the England Women's team out perform the men's team, currently being the European champions and yet again get no where near the financial support that the men's team does.

Also, look at the English Women's top league with regards to Arsenal, the only English professional football team to complete a 'quadruple', the league title, the FA Cup, the league cup and the European Cup and they did so going unbeaten in the league but yet did they get the recognition they deserved? hell no. Hardly any one knows about the teams achievements but look at the Arsenal men's team that went unbeaten one season and dubbed the 'invincible', country fame, world wide fame and still talked about today but the women's team went way way further than what the men's team achieved and they got virtually no recognition for it. They team still do not get the same financial support as the men's team do.

Countries and league clubs are not prepared to heavily invest in the women's game because they want the money to go to the men's team where the country and league clubs feel the will get better value for money if they continually invest in the men's game rather than the women's. I believe it was a FIFA board member that was recently quoted as saying the women's game is a joke and he has not intention of watching women's football. When you have attitudes like that in the game and at board level it is no wonder there is no heavy financial support for the women's game.

 

[Sal09]

'Football' includes a global network of players, owners, governing bodies, and financiers. It isn't the 1890s anymore.

I don't like it any more than you do - I am mad that I can't have heroes, that the game isn't the escape from reality it once was. But just 'sticking to football' nowadays means actively ignoring all the crap that ruining football. And I just can't do that.

You make me laugh my friend. So it would've been ok if Henderson had joined a MLS club? He would still have been your hero?

Last time I checked being non white was still an issue in North America (so called champions of human rights). We all know how law enforcements treat them. But yeah ignore what is going on in our own back yard and its morally correct to play in MLS.

What happened to the moral compass when Sheikh Jasim made multiple bids to buy Manchester United. Glazer's should not have entertained any bids let alone considering one. Not a single protest by Manchester United Supporters club.

Again not long ago PL clubs voted to block Newcastle Stadium sponsorship bid by Saudi ownership but now they all are lining up to take their cash.

Plenty to say about stuff recently being posted in this thread but I think I best 🤐 and stick to talking football or I might get accused of being an agent of Al-Ettifaq by the high moral brigade.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Lol you criticising British Government yet Americans benefit most from Saudi Arabia’s money by selling them Made In America military equipment.

The game of football was first played in the UK, its rules were codified there, the Premier League takes place in England, and the UK government (and the FA authorities) have both been lamentably unconcerned and unexercised by what has been happening - in the form of sportswashing - under their nose.

So yes, to my mind, they are more culpable than the equivalent authorities in the US, where - remember - football attracts far less by way of public (and TV) interest and support than do many other games; in other words, (unlike the UK), it is by no means the most popular sport in the country and - in wider socio-economic and cultural terms - its impact is almost negligible, or, certainly, seems to be a lot less relevant than the (uniquely American) games that do attract considerable public and media interest.

You make me laugh my friend. So it would've been ok if Henderson had joined a MLS club? He would still have been your hero?

Last time I checked being non white was still an issue in North America (so called champions of human rights). We all know how law enforcements treat them. But yeah ignore what is going on in our own back yard and its morally correct to play in MLS.

What happened to the moral compass when Sheikh Jasim made multiple bids to buy Manchester United. Glazer's should not have entertained any bids let alone considering one. Not a single protest by Manchester United Supporters club.

Again not long ago PL clubs voted to block Newcastle Stadium sponsorship bid by Saudi ownership but now they all are lining up to take their cash.

Plenty to say about stuff recently being posted in this thread but I think I best 🤐 and stick to talking football or I might get accused of being an agent of Al-Ettifaq by the high moral brigade.

I think that you are taking aim at the wrong target.

 

[laptech]

You make me laugh my friend. So it would've been ok if Henderson had joined a MLS club? He would still have been your hero?

Last time I checked being non white was still an issue in North America (so called champions of human rights). We all know how law enforcements treat them. But yeah ignore what is going on in our own back yard and its morally correct to play in MLS.

What happened to the moral compass when Sheikh Jasim made multiple bids to buy Manchester United. Glazer's should not have entertained any bids let alone considering one. No a single protest by Manchester United Supporters club.

Again not long ago PL clubs voted to block Newcastle Stadium sponsorship bid by Saudi ownership but now they are all lining up to take their cash.

I think I best 🤐 and stick to talking football or I might get accused of being an agent of Al-Ettifaq by the high moral brigade.

Football has changed from being a favorite pastime/hobby that people got paid to do if they were good at it. Football has morphed into a global business and in the business world, your in it to make money and as much of it as you can. Clubs used to be happy just to have sponsors on hoardings that went around the edges of the pitch, now you've sponsorships of naming rights of football stadiums. Not only do you see the main shirt sponsor on the front of the shirt, now you see them on shirt sleeves, on the back of the shirt, on collars if the shirt has them, on socks. Then you have different sponsors on warm up kit and training kit. Leagues are always pushing more for TV rights. Club and players image rights have ballooned and with all of that you have players pushing for bigger wages and football agents pushing for more and more money for their client because the more money they get for their client, the more money they the agent gets. This has a knock on effect of pushing up game ticket prices and club merchandise prices.

The game is no longer what it was. It's a business person's game now and is being owned and run by business people who's sole purpose is to cream as much money out of the game as they can. People I know who used to go watch their team regularly, Wolves, Aston Villa, Birmingham, Liverpool, Man United, Leicester City, Blackburn Rovers, Southampton, stopped because of what they are seeing happening to the game. Now they watch their local non league team who play on Sunday's 'grass roots football' as they like to call it.

I used to be an avid viewer of the game because I was priced out of the game due to ticket prices. I was spend most of my weekend watching live games on Sky sports, catch up games on various channels and even games from foreign leagues because one of the channels you to show games from other European leagues. It was great but then my enjoyment of the game withered away due to the wash of money and greed sweeping through the game. Now I've stopped watching the games because it no longer gives the enjoyment it once did. I am sure I am not the only one who feels like this.

 

[Sal09]

The game of football was first played in the UK, its rules were codified there, the Premier League takes place in England, and the UK government (and the FA authorities) have both been lamentably unconcerned and unexercised by what has been happening - in the form of sportswashing - under their nose.

So yes, to my mind, they are more culpable than the equivalent authorities in the US, where - remember - football attracts far less by way of public (and TV) interest and support than do many other games; in other words, (unlike the UK), it is by no means the most popular sport in the country and - in wider socio-economic and cultural terms - its impact is almost negligible, or, certainly, seems to be a lot less relevant than the (uniquely American) games that do attract considerable public and media interest.

I think that you are taking aim at the wrong target.

I'm not pointing finger at anyone or have intension to do so.

Wrong is wrong whether its happening in UK, America, Middle East or any part of the world.

You can't pick and choose.

We can't go criticising judging these footballers because we do not like where the money is coming from when our own back yard is dirty.

And yes not all of you or maybe none of you on here will agree with me but sports washing had been happening long before Middle East money became a thing.

Plus lets not forget West need their money.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I'm not pointing finger at anyone or have intension to do so.

Wrong is wrong whether its happening in UK, America, Middle East or any part of the world.

You can't pick and choose.

We can't go criticising judging these footballers because we do not like where the money is coming from when our own back yard is dirty.

And yes not all of you or maybe none of you on here will agree with me but sports washing had been happening long before Middle East money became a thing.

Plus lets not forget West need their money.

So a supporter has little say in who buys his club. They can protest or refuse to go to games and buy the shirt but that’s about it. It won’t stop someone from buying the club and running it how they see fit.
However the players can choose where they agree to go. It’s up to them to evaluate if they want to promote a certain country’s league. It’s not like they don’t have other (albeit less profitable) options.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Ryan Reynolds appears to be trying to defuse tensions after Mullins' injury against Man Utd.

It reminds me of Pickford's reckless and devastating challenge on Virgil van Dijk. Boy was I angry about that....though I didn't feel the need to send death threats on social media. Let's hope Reynolds' example is followed by Wrexham fans.

We can't go criticising judging these footballers because we do not like where the money is coming from when our own back yard is dirty.

'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone,' eh? By that logic, nobody can ever criticize anything. It's a fantastic argument in favor of the corrupt status quo. 'Stick to sports' takes away all of your power to change anything or even talk about it and is a tacit acceptance of whatever is going on.

I think we are both broadly on the same side here, so I am genuinely puzzled as to what you are taking issue with.

I do disagree with you on one thing. State club ownership is a new and different thing that has emerged recently. That doesn't make any of the other modes of ownership OK, and it doesn't imply that other nations don't have social problems and that sports are caught up in those issues. It does not imply that sportswashing has never happened before. It doesn't imply that we should ignore other problems.

 

[Sal09]

So a supporter has little say in who buys his club. They can protest or refuse to go to games and buy the shirt but that’s about it. It won’t stop someone from buying the club and running it how they see fit.
However the players can choose where they agree to go. It’s up to them to evaluate if they want to promote a certain country’s league. It’s not like they don’t have other (albeit less profitable) options.

But thats what pisses me off.

Why is it always an individual player who is held accountable morally or is in the spotlight.

Why can’t the owners and senior management be held accountable.

Why can’t these football agents be held responsible.

Clubs and the agents are the ones who created this monster.

Clubs are pillar of the communities. And they white wash same money through their books whether it be paying wages, buying players or via their charitable foundations.

But if a player accepts same money directly it’s morally wrong.

Why can’t a club say no to sale when the player is under contract to these kind of transfers. Educate the players maybe.

Our Clubs created this culture of greed. Ridiculously higher wages and lavish lifestyles make players blind I guess.

In a broader sense same logic applies to our World Leaders directly or indirectly. Greed is bigger than human rights.

But yes let’s criticise the individual player.

Apologies for my ranting i think ill come when actual football is on Sunday otherwise ill keep ranting.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

But thats what pisses me off.

Why is it always an individual player who is held accountable morally or is in the spotlight.

Why can’t the owners and senior management be held accountable.

Why can’t these football agents be held responsible.

Clubs and the agents are the ones who created this monster.

Clubs are pillar of the communities. And they white wash same money through their books whether it be paying wages, buying players or via their charitable foundations.

But if a player accepts same money directly it’s morally wrong.

Why can’t a club say no to sale when the player is under contract to these kind of transfers. Educate the players maybe.

Our Clubs created this culture of greed. Ridiculously higher wages and lavish lifestyles make players blind I guess.

In a broader sense same logic applies to our World Leaders directly or indirectly. Greed is bigger than human rights.

But yes let’s criticise the individual player.

Apologies for my ranting i think ill come when actual football is on Sunday otherwise ill keep ranting.

Actually, I will criticise players because they can make choices, informed choices, moral or ethical choices, - they do not have to decide to play in such societies and countries, irrespective of the vast sums of money on offer - for they are neither robots nor puppets.

And worse, (or more saliently), they are role models, and live in the public space, (which is why some of them enjoy such lucrative brand endorsement contracts) in a way that agents and club owners aren't, so the choices they make (and why they make such choices) do have a considerably wider impact in culture and society in some ways.

Needless to say, I will also criticise owners, and agents, - some have played egregious roles in this charade - and yes, will also criticise the lamentable failure of regulatory authorities to address the issue of sportswashing (and the earlier issue of sales to some owners, as questions clearly needed to be asked, and weren't).

And I will also point the finger of blame at fans; yes, there is not an awful lot that they can do, but the deafening and morally myopic silence of Newcastle fans re their current owners (they were a lot more vocal when Mike Ashley owned the club), and the troubling silence of some from Manchester United about overtures from other sportswashing sources does leave a sour taste.

 

[Sal09]

Actually, I will criticise players because they can make choices, informed choices, moral or ethical choices, - they do not have to decide to play in such societies and countries, irrespective of the vast sums of money on offer - for they are neither robots nor puppets.

Needless to say, I will also criticise owners, and agents, - some have played egregious roles in this charade - and yes, will also criticise the lamentable failure of regulatory authorities to address the issue of sportswashing (and the earlier issue of sales to some owners, as questions clearly needed to be asked, and weren't).

And I will also point the finger of blame at fans; yes, there is not an awful lot that they can do, but the deafening and morally myopic silence of Newcastle fans re their current owners (they were a lot more vocal when Mike Ashley owned the club), and the troubling silence of some from Manchester United about overtures from other sportswashing sources does leave a sour taste.

I whole heartedly agree with you hence my point all need to be held accountable not just an individual player.

One simple question to you all.

What became of the golf players who opposed LIV?

See you next Sunday.

Come On You Gunners.

 

[laptech]

Big news!!! UEFA have kicked out Juventus from the ECL due to breaches of FFP rules

Juventus are kicked out of Europa Conference League by Uefa for breaching FFP rules

Juventus are kicked out of this season's Europa Conference League and fined for breaching Financial Fair Play rules, Uefa has announced.

www.bbc.co.uk

It certainly makes you think what is in store for Man City with the 100 rules breaches hanging over their head.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Big news!!! UEFA have kicked out Juventus from the ECL due to breaches of FFP rules

Juventus are kicked out of Europa Conference League by Uefa for breaching FFP rules

Juventus are kicked out of this season's Europa Conference League and fined for breaching Financial Fair Play rules, Uefa has announced.

www.bbc.co.uk

It certainly makes you think what is in store for Man City with the 100 rules breaches hanging over their head.

This is the only thing that will make the clubs change their ways. Points deductions and missing out on Europe. Fines are never going to work.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Big news!!! UEFA have kicked out Juventus from the ECL due to breaches of FFP rules

Juventus are kicked out of Europa Conference League by Uefa for breaching FFP rules

Juventus are kicked out of this season's Europa Conference League and fined for breaching Financial Fair Play rules, Uefa has announced.

www.bbc.co.uk

It certainly makes you think what is in store for Man City with the 100 rules breaches hanging over their head.

Ah, excellent.

A penalty that actually has - or may have - some effect and one that actually hurts.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

This is the only thing that will make the clubs change their ways. Points deductions and missing out on Europe.

Agreed.

Fines are never going to work.

Not unless they are commensurate with what the wealthy clubs currently earn, in other words, not unless they are absolutely enormous fines, fines of billions - or, a great many millions, far in excess of any summer transfer spending - of pounds or euros.

 

[Lioness~]

Sweden - Italy 5-0
Wonderful 😁

 

[Scepticalscribe]

@Apple fanboy may find a piece penned in today's edition of the Guardian by Jacob Steinberg entitled "West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men" worth reading; I thought it extremely interesting.

 

[Apple fanboy]

@Apple fanboy may find a piece penned in today's edition of the Guardian by Jacob Steinberg entitled "West Ham’s transfer power struggle leaves Moyes unable to get his men" worth reading; I thought it extremely interesting.

Thanks. I’ll check it out.

 

[laptech]

If anyone read the article I linked to you will have noticed that Chelsea was also found guilty of breaking FFP rules but this was during the rein of Roman Abramovich. The transactions affected were between 2012 - 2019.

And this is how you get out of getting a points reduction and kicked out of a EUFA competition. You basically grovel. Taken from the article:

Uefa said: "Following the club's sale in May 2022, the new ownership identified, and proactively reported to Uefa, instances of potentially incomplete financial reporting under the club's previous ownership."

In a response, Chelsea said they "fully co-operated and assisted Uefa" in their investigations and "entered into a settlement agreement" with the governing body.

"In accordance with the club's ownership group's core principles of full compliance and transparency with its regulators, we are grateful that this case has been concluded by proactive disclosure of information to Uefa and a settlement that fully resolves the reported matters," said the premier league club

Chelsea's new owner fully co-operated with the UEFA investigation and basically gave them every thing they ask for and the result of doing all of this? only getting a fine. So you see, you can get out of a points reduction and banishment from a UEFA competition. Maybe Man City will look at this and think they can get away with a fine also.

 

[laptech]

Sweden - Italy 5-0
Wonderful 😁

View attachment 2238780

Some tough games ahead for the hosts, both need to win to go through and England need a draw. Australia need Sam Kerr more than ever now