Marko Arnautovic to Man Utd? Really. He’s not going to be good for the dressing room either. But at 33 he’s the right age really for Utd!
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The 2022-2023 Football Thread
- Thread starter Scepticalscribe
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Reffing in Rugby is pretty much totally superior to that in football. Refs explain decisions to players. Spectators can hear them do so and also hear them deliberate over video reviews. Players can't back-talk or surround the ref. Much more civility generally and less play-acting.
It's far from perfect, don't get me wrong. But it's much better than in football - and I think it leads to both players and fans giving ref more respect because they understand better what he is doing.
Luckily that was not a widespread thing, and I think it has been dealt with more or less. No system is perfect. But fear of conning refs is not a good reason to give up on introducing better concussion protocols. Too much at stake.
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I’d happily see a move to stop questioning the ref and all the play acting. But I think the big difference between rugby players and football players is the wages. When you are on such high wages you don’t tend to respect the part time referee as you should.
Professional referees could help. Or an instant ref card for surrounding the official.
Rugby League has some great rules around referees and disputing calls - basically, you can't.
You also get sent off for touching the ref, so there's no pushing and shoving an official - in fact Matthew Ridge (NZ player) was famously sent off, when he scored a try and came back with a smile on his face and playfully slapped the ref on the shoulder - then got a red card.
Introduce a straight red for getting in the ref's face - it'll stop immediately. Then you can start introducing other rules around play acting and cheating the ref - but it needs to start with harsher penalties for referee abuse and lack of respect.
Referees also need to be more accountable for their performances at a professional level, too.
Agree completely with @Lord Blackadder on the imperative of the need for proper (and enforced) concussion protocols.
If football doesn't take this seriously, the day will come when it will be compelled to do so, as it will become a question of the price of not acting costing far more (not least in legal actions) than actually taking serious and necessary steps to address this issue (which will become far worse; rugby is only now beginning to deal with this, and will face an veritable tsunami of terrifying cases over the coming years).
If football doesn't take this seriously, the day will come when it will be compelled to do so, as it will become a question of the price of not acting costing far more (not least in legal actions) than actually taking serious and necessary steps to address this issue (which will become far worse; rugby is only now beginning to deal with this, and will face an veritable tsunami of terrifying cases over the coming years).
Agree completely with both of you. I would love to see such steps taken.
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I don’t disagree but I’ve never seen anything so premeditated in the football pitch and rugby fans need reminding 😀
Such a weird transfer rumour - he's like Ronaldo, in that he is somewhat mercurial (although not on the level of Ronnie) but also very much a polarising and somewhat controversial figure.
I just don't see what the justification could be for having him in a United squad.
That it's even rumored that United are interested in Marko Arnautovic is utterly embarrassing. It's like the new transfer team and the board have learned absolutely nothing! I can take the L on opening day, but this just indicates the club is still completely lost.
[EDIT: And now they're chasing Adrien Rabiot!? He's an incremental improvement on McFred, but is he remotely worth the incredible hassle he would bring to the club — and that's just his mom?]
They really need to just let Ronaldo go. On a free to anywhere, I don't even care. Time to start building for the future and stop living in the past. Don't waste one more season.
[EDIT: And now they're chasing Adrien Rabiot!? He's an incremental improvement on McFred, but is he remotely worth the incredible hassle he would bring to the club — and that's just his mom?]
They really need to just let Ronaldo go. On a free to anywhere, I don't even care. Time to start building for the future and stop living in the past. Don't waste one more season.
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Re- United
I thought after Fergie they would transition within 2-3yrs and have a foundation to build from.
But the more worrying thing is that they dont seem to have a plan/strategy from the top down. They have just been throwing money at the problem and failing.
All the other clubs have identified a manager they align with, a way they want to play, and recruited into that framework and swiftly moved on players that don't fit. Even Chelsea who are now in transition, recognise they need to improve their squad and are scrambling accordingly.
United meanwhile just seem to like doing things half-baked. Woodward was thought to be the problem, now its clear it wasn't just him.
They are running out of managers, players proven to not be good enough are still there, and the toxicity is palpable. Hence prospective players are starting to snub them
It's been 9yrs since Fergie and they're arguably worser than ever.
And from the looks of it they need another 3-5yrs minimum and about £400m investment. Yet no sign of that happening.
I wish ETH well but i fear he might be Louis Van Gaal 2.0
I thought after Fergie they would transition within 2-3yrs and have a foundation to build from.
But the more worrying thing is that they dont seem to have a plan/strategy from the top down. They have just been throwing money at the problem and failing.
All the other clubs have identified a manager they align with, a way they want to play, and recruited into that framework and swiftly moved on players that don't fit. Even Chelsea who are now in transition, recognise they need to improve their squad and are scrambling accordingly.
United meanwhile just seem to like doing things half-baked. Woodward was thought to be the problem, now its clear it wasn't just him.
They are running out of managers, players proven to not be good enough are still there, and the toxicity is palpable. Hence prospective players are starting to snub them
It's been 9yrs since Fergie and they're arguably worser than ever.
And from the looks of it they need another 3-5yrs minimum and about £400m investment. Yet no sign of that happening.
I wish ETH well but i fear he might be Louis Van Gaal 2.0
So true. When players are looking for a club in the PL, if they are top drawer, they are thinking City and Liverpool.
Probably pick Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs next if they want to win things.
Utd have deep rooted issues. Changing the manager every year or so isn’t helping either. But no one is going to get the time or the backing to fix the club. Instead it’s short term fixes that don’t work. Especially when the manager changes. The new boss gets a group of players that might not fit with their plans.
Cucho Hernandez strikes again for Columbus - he's scored at a Haaland-esque rate of 6 goals in 5 matches so far - as the Crew defeat NYCFC in their latest home game over the weekend. MLS is a very competitive league, and while Columbus's record is only just over .500 currently, Hernandez has arrived and he and Zelarayan are already working well together. I am optimistic that we will be able to not only make the playoffs but do better than the first round.
EDIT: and Rashford's fall from grace is remarkable. It seems not that long ago that he was a consistent threat. In the absence of injury, it's rare for a good player to turn into a bad player unless they are being used wrong or their confidence/morale is shot.
It seems that they really did put in an offer...and Rabiot is now discussing personal terms. Both very odd choices, I can't come up with an explanation that makes sense to me. ten Hag should get a pass this season unless things truly bottom out...but it's hard to see where we can expect to see progress with this squad, including most of the newer additions.
EDIT: and Rashford's fall from grace is remarkable. It seems not that long ago that he was a consistent threat. In the absence of injury, it's rare for a good player to turn into a bad player unless they are being used wrong or their confidence/morale is shot.
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For a club that's broke, can't pay wages, and is struggling to register players, Barcelona have had a ridiculous window. They now look set to sign Bernado Silver for €55m if rumours are true.
Madeness. Football can be laughable at times.
Madeness. Football can be laughable at times.
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Rashford's fall from grace is at least in part due to injury. During the 2020-2021 season, Solskjaer ran him into the ground. The Euros followed, and he cruelly missed that penalty kick and suffered a torrent of abuse. He had his surgery and recovery in the offseason, but has been a shell of himself ever since. He never had top level footballing instincts, but without the physical burst and confidence in his game, he's completely ineffective. Sadly he is probably done as a top player.
Mason Greenwood is also a massive, massive loss. Enjoy prison, sport.
Arnautovic is off the table due to massive negative reaction from the fanbase and the club very belatedly doing their due diligence. Utter malpractice. Honestly, I can take the L on opening day, but seeing the leadership of the club make the same mistakes as always is what's really depressing.
At least Rabiot is an incremental upgrade on McTominay or Fred, even if I don't want his baggage. Supposedly their interest in Sergej Milinković-Savić is rekindled, and I'm sure Lazio will make it dear. Neither of these players is a #6, though — why is this club absolutely allergic to that type of player now?
Fergie's brilliance is all that held United together from, say, 2009 until he retired. Recruitment after they won the Champions League and after Ronaldo left was simply not up to the standard required. David Gill leaving at the same time Fergie retired was an equally crushing blow as Ed Woodward assumed control and made even more costly mistakes.
Rumors flying that ETH will walk in September if the club can't pull their heads out in the transfer market. The blowback from that would be... spectacular.
Mason Greenwood is also a massive, massive loss. Enjoy prison, sport.
Arnautovic is off the table due to massive negative reaction from the fanbase and the club very belatedly doing their due diligence. Utter malpractice. Honestly, I can take the L on opening day, but seeing the leadership of the club make the same mistakes as always is what's really depressing.
At least Rabiot is an incremental upgrade on McTominay or Fred, even if I don't want his baggage. Supposedly their interest in Sergej Milinković-Savić is rekindled, and I'm sure Lazio will make it dear. Neither of these players is a #6, though — why is this club absolutely allergic to that type of player now?
Fergie's brilliance is all that held United together from, say, 2009 until he retired. Recruitment after they won the Champions League and after Ronaldo left was simply not up to the standard required. David Gill leaving at the same time Fergie retired was an equally crushing blow as Ed Woodward assumed control and made even more costly mistakes.
Rumors flying that ETH will walk in September if the club can't pull their heads out in the transfer market. The blowback from that would be... spectacular.
Thank Mourino for that. Seems to have destroyed his confidence.
And who next? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Imagine if after Fergerson left, Moyes had been given 6-7 years to build a team. I think they would have been threatening to win leagues, not an alsoran in the CL 4th spot.
It would be a shame if Rashford was used up physically arealdy. And it is easy to forget Greenwood is still on the books...even if his footballing career is over almost before it began.
I have to assume that won't happen, it would be too cataclysmic - though I wouldn't be surprised if he's making those kinds of threats behind closed doors. But speaking of due diligence, ten Hag seems to not have appreciated what he was walking into if he's that unimpressed by the recruitment. Of course, we don't know what he was promised in private before singing up, but most of the things he seems upset about have been chronic issues at the club for some time.
Perhaps - but only if Moyes was given control of transfer activity and was able to recruit better than the club ended up doing over the following few years. Which, given how bad the clubs recruitment has been, would have been a relatively low bar for Moyes to leap over, to be fair. Who knows?
The problem is that Moyes succeeded Ferguson, and at the time few fans expected the systemic issues at the club to bite so hard, so early, and be so persistent. They saw Moyes as perhaps a bigger part of the problem than he actually was.
I think the trouble with changing manager so often is, a new guy comes in with new ideas, a new system but the old guys players. They make a few changes and if it’s not an instant success your out! Keeping a manager for longer always seems to bring more success at the top of the league.
At the bottom sometimes that honeymoon period and a much needed win can be worth the gamble. But inevitably change is not the answer if you want to win trophies.
Barcelona are truly off the rails. The club doesn't have a shred of credibility left and if they don't come to grief financially after all these financial 'levers' get pulled it will be because football governance is a joke and it's actually possible to run a club like a pyramid scheme.
The manager is a sacrificial goat, distracting fans from the general lack of a vision, plan, or capability on the part of club owners and their suits.
The manager is a sacrificial goat, distracting fans from the general lack of a vision, plan, or capability on the part of club owners and their suits.
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They needed super league to happen so bad. Now the hens are really coming home to roost.
So glad sense prevailed and the English game wasn’t sacrificed to save these clowns.
Some pundits have suggested that Barcelona are still counting on the Super League to keep them afloat in the long term.
The super league idea is not dead, it will return in some new and horrible form before too long, and next time fan protests might not be enough to kill it.
Re Manchester United, their managers, and systemic issues: To be honest, I think that these issues pre-dated the appointment of David Moyes, - so, it is not a question of a problem with managerial appointments - it was just that Alex Ferguson was so good, and had such control over the players and dressing room, that he was able to mask these deficiencies and obtain performances from the club that shouldn't have been possible.
This is because Manchester United were running on something close to empty in the final few Fergie years, but he was able to compensate for that.
The real issue here is the ownership model and what the Glazers actually want to do with the club: They bought a profitable club and then proceeded to saddle it with mountains of debt while promoting it as a world famous "brand".
In truth, as long as the global audience continue to support the club (and spend money accordingly), I actually don't think that the Glazers are all that bothered about trophies; they view them as nice to have, and useful to win, but neither necessary nor sufficient for them to be able to view their ownership of the club a resounding commercial success.
This is because Manchester United were running on something close to empty in the final few Fergie years, but he was able to compensate for that.
The real issue here is the ownership model and what the Glazers actually want to do with the club: They bought a profitable club and then proceeded to saddle it with mountains of debt while promoting it as a world famous "brand".
In truth, as long as the global audience continue to support the club (and spend money accordingly), I actually don't think that the Glazers are all that bothered about trophies; they view them as nice to have, and useful to win, but neither necessary nor sufficient for them to be able to view their ownership of the club a resounding commercial success.
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100% spot on, @Scepticalscribe. As I said earlier, United's recruitment hasn't been up to spec since arguably 2009 or 2010. As much as I have a soft spot for Antonio Valencia, Cristiano Ronaldo was not adequately replaced when he left for all that money.
There were some transfer foibles with Moyes, both when he took the job and after he was sacked. Moyes vetoed a move for Thiago Alcantara that was all wrapped up, and later he and the club had Toni Kross in the bag, only for the player to pull out after Moyes was sacked. Either one of those players would have made a significant difference to United's midfield fortunes. Short term thinking has really ruined the club.
Again, what is most disappointing to me is Richard Arnold and John Murtough, who made a lot of astute preliminary moves before the transfer window opened, have utterly failed where the rubber meets the road. It's as if nothing at all has changed.
The real problem remains the Glazers and their treatment of the club as a cash cow. Michael Knighton may be talking a big game in the media about putting together a consortium, but I'd expect serious potential buyers do their work more quietly than that.
There were some transfer foibles with Moyes, both when he took the job and after he was sacked. Moyes vetoed a move for Thiago Alcantara that was all wrapped up, and later he and the club had Toni Kross in the bag, only for the player to pull out after Moyes was sacked. Either one of those players would have made a significant difference to United's midfield fortunes. Short term thinking has really ruined the club.
Again, what is most disappointing to me is Richard Arnold and John Murtough, who made a lot of astute preliminary moves before the transfer window opened, have utterly failed where the rubber meets the road. It's as if nothing at all has changed.
The real problem remains the Glazers and their treatment of the club as a cash cow. Michael Knighton may be talking a big game in the media about putting together a consortium, but I'd expect serious potential buyers do their work more quietly than that.