The 2023-2024 Football Thread

[danny842003]

^
You can invest, just don't live beyond your means and then lie about it. Yes before FFP this happened, but arguably thats why FFP came it.

Re- City, basically, i manipulated the system and got caught. So now i'm gonna criticise it.

You can’t invest. The PIF have more money than god it’s not possible to live beyond their means. They could buy whoever they wished and pay them whatever they wished and not need to make a profit on it.
Now I’m not saying that should be allowed but FFP is not about protecting clubs from failing, it’s to stop that gap being closed on the cartel it’s very simple.

 

[daneoni]

Final England squad


🚫 Jack Grealish
🚫 Harry Maguire
🚫 James Maddison
🚫 Jarrad Branthwaite
🚫 James Trafford
🚫 Curtis Jones
🚫 Jarrell Quansah

 

[danny842003]

Final England squad

View attachment 2385791
🚫 Jack Grealish
🚫 Harry Maguire
🚫 James Maddison
🚫 Jarrad Branthwaite
🚫 James Trafford
🚫 Curtis Jones
🚫 Jarrell Quansah

Feels like we’re going for Newcastle 96 try to score 4 and hope we only concede 3.
Maguire is a real loss as far as I’m concerned he’s solid in a white shirt.

 

[timber]

I think it's an error not to have a different player like Grealish available.

 

[laptech]

Final England squad

View attachment 2385791
🚫 Jack Grealish
🚫 Harry Maguire
🚫 James Maddison
🚫 Jarrad Branthwaite
🚫 James Trafford
🚫 Curtis Jones
🚫 Jarrell Quansah

Two inclusions are extremely risky. Luke Shaw has been out most of the season due to an injury. He still isn't 100% or even 90% fit, has not played any football in months and yet he's in the squad and will be expected to play against some of Europe's best strikers and wingers who will be way way fitter and stronger than him. The other risk is Jude Bellingham who it has most recently been reported has been carrying an injury for months and will probably need surgery on it after the Euro's.

As for the issue of City taking the PL to court for unfair rules on 3rd party sponsorships, I am in agreement with the Pl here that club owners who are extremely wealthy need to be prevented from using that wealth to bolster the team so the team becomes beyond the reach of others in the league. If City is allowed to spend what ever it wants on players and the team goes ahead beating everyone in it's path because of City being able to buy all the best players in the world and have them in one team, where is the fairness in that?

 

[danny842003]

Two inclusions are extremely risky. Luke Shaw has been out most of the season due to an injury. He still isn't 100% or even 90% fit, has not played any football in months and yet he's in the squad and will be expected to play against some of Europe's best strikers and wingers who will be way way fitter and stronger than him. The other risk is Jude Bellingham who it has most recently been reported has been carrying an injury for months and will probably need surgery on it after the Euro's.

As for the issue of City taking the PL to court for unfair rules on 3rd party sponsorships, I am in agreement with the Pl here that club owners who are extremely wealthy need to be prevented from using that wealth to bolster the team so the team becomes beyond the reach of others in the league. If City is allowed to spend what ever it wants on players and the team goes ahead beating everyone in it's path because of City being able to buy all the best players in the world and have them in one team, where is the fairness in that?

Luke Shaw is a risk and wouldn’t have been included in a 23 man squad I feel.
There’s no risk with Bellingham if you have a player of that quality available you have to take him. It would be professional suicide for any coach not to pick him.

Where’s the fairness with the current financial system?
Plus it’s not about what’s fair it’s about what’s legal.

 

[Silencio]

I didn't really track how Grealish played very closely this season, but I don't think Toney was exactly scintillating after coming back from his ban. Surely having Kane — who will play virtually every available minute — and Watkins are enough for the #9, with Bowen the tertiary option?

Leaving out Branthwaite also strikes me as a foolish decision. Maddison? Ehh. Bowen and Palmer are way ahead of him on form.

Well, I hope Shaw is closer to fitness than Maguire apparently was. Guess we'll see, and maybe lower expectations for this squad will equal less pressure for them. Who knows?

 

[laptech]

Taking Luke Shaw is a massive gamble Southgate should not take because if Shaw cannot play then it becomes a player Southgate will not be allowed to replace meaning they will be one player short for the whole tournament. Even if Shaw is over his injury, he certainly will not be match fit or even match ready. What is going to happen if Southgate plays him in the first game and he gets taken apart by the opposition which results in goals being scored because he was not ready to start playing games yet. If Southgate plays him then in my opinion he is doing so knowing the Euro's will be his last as England manager because there is no way he will survive being manager if Shaw makes a mistake due to not being match fit, the opposition score and England lose the game.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

There’s no other business in the world that stops investors investing money to compete with the competition.

I take issue with your definition of ‘competition.’ Though your characterization of league as a ‘business’ is both depressing and, unfortunately, accurate.

Business and competition, at least in the sporting sense, are not very compatible. The former always ends up distorting the latter.

 

[laptech]

Take a look at the stats for these leagues and it tells you why there needs to be financial controls and even stronger financial controls within the game:

La Liga
In the past 40 years, the league has been dominated by Real Madrid and Barcelona
Barcelona:18
Real Madrid: 16

Bundesliga
In the past 40 years the league has been dominated by one team, Bayern Munich with 25 league titles

Ligue 1
Since PSG was bought by Qatari investors in 2011, PSG has won 10 league titles in 12 years

Serie A
In the past 20 years the league has been dominated by Juventus with 14 titles

The reason I have not included Man United in this list is because all these clubs have one major difference, they continued to dominate their respective league over the years with multiple different managers. United has not dominated the league ever since Alex Ferguson left hence why I have not included them in the list.

But for arguments sake lets look at Man United's dominance of the premier league from it's introduction. The premier league was founded in 1993. Alex Ferguson retired from the club in 2013. He was therefore at the helm of United for 20 years in the PL and in those 20 years the team won 13 league titles and came 2nd 5 times. That's dominance by anybody's standard.

But when United were dominating the premier league, they did so in the same manner as all the other teams in the list, they were out spending all their rivals on wages, transfer costs and sponsorships which is why they were able to keep themselves at the top.

The PL introduced it's financial rules to stop another Man United dominance occurring. We are already seeing the dominance of Man City. Do England league fans want another dominance like United happening again? of course they don't. Fans already got pissed off with United being so dominant and still to this day many fans are pissed off at United for their league dominance. I therefore have no doubt they do not want to see another team dominate the league like United did. Look at Bayern Munich and their dominance of the Bundesliga. Do fans want to see that dominance with the PL because that is what will happen if Man City are able to get the financial fair play rules thrown out over 3rd party sponsorship.

 

[laptech]

lol England lose to Iceland and critics have England as favourites to win the Euro's!!!!

I remember critics saying the same thing about Leicester City not having a chance of winning the league and what do we see? them beating the top 6 teams and other teams to win the league, lowly Leicester City who critics said did not have a chance of winning the league title.

England have the best goal scorer in Europe, Harry Kane who scored more goals in the 2023/2024 season than anyone else and yet they still lose to a team ranked 72 in the world lol.

 

[danny842003]

I take issue with your definition of ‘competition.’ Though your characterization of league as a ‘business’ is both depressing and, unfortunately, accurate.

Business and competition, at least in the sporting sense, are not very compatible. The former always ends up distorting the latter.

You don’t think the current situation is distorted? Man united can just spend what they want because they used to be good?

 

[danny842003]

Take a look at the stats for these leagues and it tells you why there needs to be financial controls and even stronger financial controls within the game:

La Liga
In the past 40 years, the league has been dominated by Real Madrid and Barcelona
Barcelona:18
Real Madrid: 16

Bundesliga
In the past 40 years the league has been dominated by one team, Bayern Munich with 25 league titles

Ligue 1
Since PSG was bought by Qatari investors in 2011, PSG has won 10 league titles in 12 years

Serie A
In the past 20 years the league has been dominated by Juventus with 14 titles

The reason I have not included Man United in this list is because all these clubs have one major difference, they continued to dominate their respective league over the years with multiple different managers. United has not dominated the league ever since Alex Ferguson left hence why I have not included them in the list.

But for arguments sake lets look at Man United's dominance of the premier league from it's introduction. The premier league was founded in 1993. Alex Ferguson retired from the club in 2013. He was therefore at the helm of United for 20 years in the PL and in those 20 years the team won 13 league titles and came 2nd 5 times. That's dominance by anybody's standard.

But when United were dominating the premier league, they did so in the same manner as all the other teams in the list, they were out spending all their rivals on wages, transfer costs and sponsorships which is why they were able to keep themselves at the top.

The PL introduced it's financial rules to stop another Man United dominance occurring. We are already seeing the dominance of Man City. Do England league fans want another dominance like United happening again? of course they don't. Fans already got pissed off with United being so dominant and still to this day many fans are pissed off at United for their league dominance. I therefore have no doubt they do not want to see another team dominate the league like United did. Look at Bayern Munich and their dominance of the Bundesliga. Do fans want to see that dominance with the PL because that is what will happen if Man City are able to get the financial fair play rules thrown out over 3rd party sponsorship.

The financial rules just ensure the league will be dominated by teams already at the top. Who wants that?

 

[danny842003]

Taking Luke Shaw is a massive gamble Southgate should not take because if Shaw cannot play then it becomes a player Southgate will not be allowed to replace meaning they will be one player short for the whole tournament. Even if Shaw is over his injury, he certainly will not be match fit or even match ready. What is going to happen if Southgate plays him in the first game and he gets taken apart by the opposition which results in goals being scored because he was not ready to start playing games yet. If Southgate plays him then in my opinion he is doing so knowing the Euro's will be his last as England manager because there is no way he will survive being manager if Shaw makes a mistake due to not being match fit, the opposition score and England lose the game.

Tripper will likely start at LB but if he gets injured Shaw may need to stand in.
He’s not blessed with options in that position hence why an old RB who hasn’t had his best season will play in that position. It’s a risk he has to take.

 

[daneoni]

England's defence will be its undoing.

No James, no Chilwell, no Maguire (actually good for England), no White.

TAA a midfielder not a defender

Guehi is a good defender, but not elite. He's not even the best defender at Palace.

I can't remember the last time Stones played 90mins

Shaw is barely fit.

I can understand why Grealish was left behind. If his own teammates didn't trust him in the business end. With the exception of Toney, everyone else is ahead of him in terms of form

Personally can't see past France. Although Germany with home advantage can't be ignored.

The financial rules just ensure the league will be dominated by teams already at the top. Who wants that?

If that were true, Newcastle and Villa wouldn't make top 4 and Chelsea would have won back to back titles.

 

[Apple fanboy]

England's defence will be its undoing.

No James, no Chilwell, no Maguire (actually good for England), no White.

TAA a midfielder not a defender

Guehi is a good defender, but not elite. He's not even the best defender at Palace.

I can't remember the last time Stones played 90mins

Shaw is barely fit.

I can understand why Grealish was left behind. If his own teammates didn't trust him in the business end. With the exception of Toney, everyone else is ahead of him in terms of form

Personally can't see past France. Although Germany with home advantage can't be ignored.

If that were true, Newcastle and Villa wouldn't make top 4 and Chelsea would have won back to back titles.

Money is only part of a successful club. You also need a good manager who can get the best out of those players and juggle all those egos. Pep has been doing it very well. When he leaves at the end of next season (rumoured), I expect the wheels will come off quite a bit at City (even if they get no points deduction etc).

As for Grealish there is always one player, every tournament who doesn’t get picked. The press will latch on to it and point to this exclusion if we don’t win and say if you had selected him it would have been different.

Personally I don’t buy into that crap. To win tournaments you need the 11 players who play best together not the 11 best players.

Either way I’m expecting home advantage and a German win.

 

[danny842003]

If that were true, Newcastle and Villa wouldn't make top 4 and Chelsea would have won back to back titles.

And then we finished 7th whilst not getting out of the CL group stages.
We played a game in Paris with the same 11 for something like 105 mins because there’s simply wasn't anyone to bring on. I think we had 3 keepers on the bench.
Just because Chelsea and Man U have all the advantages and still couldn’t score in a brothel doesn’t mean the system isn’t rotten to its core.

 

[laptech]

......

Personally I don’t buy into that crap. To win tournaments you need the 11 players who play best together not the 11 best players.

.......

That is very very true.

Take the 2004 Euro's. There was no way on this planet that Greece was expected to win the tournament but they did. They did not have a team boasting of world class players and yet they beat Europe's best teams and how did they do it? by playing as an 11 man team. England, Spain, Portugal, Germany, France, Italy, Czech Republic had some of Europe's best players in their team, players who have the skill and ability to make things happen but yet fail to play as a part of an 11 man team. Greece did this and they did the undeliverable, they beat Europe's best to become 2004 Euro champions.

So yes, having the best players does not win you tournaments but having 11 players that play the best together do.

Leicester City also proved that when they won the premier league, a feat no one thought they could do. They never boasted a team of world class players but yet they beat teams that did. They had a team of 11 players that played the best together and they won the league. It can happen and it does happen.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

You don’t think the current situation is distorted? Man united can just spend what they want because they used to be good?

It’s never been MORE distorted. permitting more spending by more teams is the opposite of what should be done to increase competition. But the business side of the sport demands just that.

 

[laptech]

Just read a new article where England's Kobbie Mainoo was asked about the Englands team mood after the game, this was his reply

Kobbie Mainoo responds to fans who booed England after 'humbling' Iceland loss

Not the best way to prepare for a tournament.

metro.co.uk

Asked if the pointed response to a dismal defeat had affected the mood in the changing room, teenager Mainoo, who played the full 90 minutes, delivered an emphatic response to the contrary.

He said: ‘Not at all! We know the quality we have in the changing room and now we just have to show the fans we’re good enough and we can compete in Germany.

So basically the team did not care that they had just lost to a team that is ranked 72 in the world. England has arguably one of the best strikers in the world and yet could could only muster 1 actual shot on target with the team taking 13 shots in total and the team couldn't care less!!!

 

[daneoni]

And then we finished 7th whilst not getting out of the CL group stages.
We played a game in Paris with the same 11 for something like 105 mins because there’s simply wasn't anyone to bring on. I think we had 3 keepers on the bench.
Just because Chelsea and Man U have all the advantages and still couldn’t score in a brothel doesn’t mean the system isn’t rotten to its core.

Point being, money alone doesn't guarantee domination. You need good culture, team, and manager. But the EPL has a unique model that needs to be protected.

The reason Newcastle failed to challenge is because their best midfielders were either banned or injured, and their best forwards and defenders (incl GK) had injuries. Not because the rest outmanoeuvred them in the market

Also jury is still out on Howe at the elite levels.

All 20 clubs get a slice of the pie allowing them to balance the books and/or buy players.

Bundesliga, La Liga, Ligue 1 shows what happens when the money is only passed to a selected few and what happens when clubs are allowed to spend without limit.

Heck City are a prime example of why limits need to be put in place. They were winning trophies yet siphoning the owners funds through bogus channels. Last summer they outspent everyone else despite winning the treble. Granted they made more revenue from said treble.

Just read a new article where England's Kobbie Mainoo was asked about the Englands team mood after the game, this was his reply

Kobbie Mainoo responds to fans who booed England after 'humbling' Iceland loss

Not the best way to prepare for a tournament.

metro.co.uk

So basically the team did not care that they had just lost to a team that is ranked 72 in the world. England has arguably one of the best strikers in the world and yet could could only muster 1 actual shot on target with the team taking 13 shots in total and the team couldn't care less!!!

To be fair no point over-exerting yourself and getting injured before the actual tourney begins.

 

[timber]

Just read a new article where England's Kobbie Mainoo was asked about the Englands team mood after the game, this was his reply

Kobbie Mainoo responds to fans who booed England after 'humbling' Iceland loss

Not the best way to prepare for a tournament.

metro.co.uk

So basically the team did not care that they had just lost to a team that is ranked 72 in the world. England has arguably one of the best strikers in the world and yet could could only muster 1 actual shot on target with the team taking 13 shots in total and the team couldn't care less!!!

People complain about AI responses but we have getting those for ages with football players.
One pretty common in my country is every time they (and they can be almost whatever team) lose they have to raise their head.
One wonders if they lost money or contact lenses to have to play always looking at the pitch.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

You don’t think the current situation is distorted? Man united can just spend what they want because they used to be good?

I think it’s never been MORE distorted.

But I disagree with the idea that the way to fix this is to let in more big money ownership, so that a few clubs can try to ‘catch up’ with the most dominant clubs. That will make it worse. On the contrary, more financial controls need to be implemented that limit the ability of any clubs to financially dope the sport. It’s not a popular idea, but the alternative is just a few clubs getting bigger and bigger and the gap in finances widening indefinitely.

 

[laptech]

I actually think Man City are trying an elaborate scheme to trap the PL into a situation where there is no alternative but a Super League.

The recent EU court case late last year showed that UEFA and FIFA cannot prevent clubs from joining a Super league due to EU employment laws. City going after the PL on 3rd party sponsorship in my opinion is a ploy by City to use employment laws and other business laws to get the PL rules on 3rd party sponsorship revoked because City will make the argument that the PL should not be allowed to stop clubs from getting investment. City will argue that it is not their problem that other clubs do not have the same type of wealthy owners who can pull in massive amounts of investment and as such they should be forcibly held back on investment due to PL rules. As others have pointed out in their posts, it is not the job of the PL to tell clubs they cannot get investment. The only reason why the PL has such rules is so it does not create situations where only the wealthiest clubs stay at the top because all the other club do not have the financial means to cope. If the PL argue this point that the rules are their to create a fair system for all, City will then argue that under UK/EU laws of employment and business that they must be allowed to get investment and if the PL insist on their rules then City must be allowed to explore other avenues of business where they are allowed massive amounts of investment ergo the Super League.

Man City are using the court case against the PL to back the PL into a corner why they should allow City to become mega powerful in the PL at the expense of all the other teams OR allow them to leave and join another league ergo the Super League.

Man City are laying the trap and the PL are walking right into it. Because you have to look at it this way, Man City are trying to make it so it is unlawful for the PL to prevent large swathes of investment into clubs, ie Man City and if what the PL is doing is found to be lawful then City will just say that they then have the right to seek work elsewhere i.e the Super League, because they are being forced to comply with rules that limits investment in the club. What is the PL going to do? they would not be able to stop Man City from joining a Super League because the PL would have effectively pushed Man City to it.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I actually think Man City are trying an elaborate scheme to trap the PL into a situation where there is no alternative but a Super League.

The recent EU court case late last year showed that UEFA and FIFA cannot prevent clubs from joining a Super league due to EU employment laws. City going after the PL on 3rd party sponsorship in my opinion is a ploy by City to use employment laws and other business laws to get the PL rules on 3rd party sponsorship revoked because City will make the argument that the PL should not be allowed to stop clubs from getting investment. City will argue that it is not their problem that other clubs do not have the same type of wealthy owners who can pull in massive amounts of investment and as such they should be forcibly held back on investment due to PL rules. As others have pointed out in their posts, it is not the job of the PL to tell clubs they cannot get investment. The only reason why the PL has such rules is so it does not create situations where only the wealthiest clubs stay at the top because all the other club do not have the financial means to cope. If the PL argue this point that the rules are their to create a fair system for all, City will then argue that under UK/EU laws of employment and business that they must be allowed to get investment and if the PL insist on their rules then City must be allowed to explore other avenues of business where they are allowed massive amounts of investment ergo the Super League.

Man City are using the court case against the PL to back the PL into a corner why they should allow City to become mega powerful in the PL at the expense of all the other teams OR allow them to leave and join another league ergo the Super League.

Man City are laying the trap and the PL are walking right into it. Because you have to look at it this way, Man City are trying to make it so it is unlawful for the PL to prevent large swathes of investment into clubs, ie Man City and if what the PL is doing is found to be lawful then City will just say that they then have the right to seek work elsewhere i.e the Super League, because they are being forced to comply with rules that limits investment in the club. What is the PL going to do? they would not be able to stop Man City from joining a Super League because the PL would have effectively pushed Man City to it.

I don't agree. I believe they are just counter suing to prevent a massive points deduction in the autumn.

Either way City's dominance is very likely to finish when Pep moves on.

I've not met a fan who wants the super league to happen.