Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Not surprised by the result. Howe has employed the same tactics the last 3 matches and Arteta has failed to respond. Played them 3x and have failed to even score a goal.

Bonus points...looks like we have another injury

Arteta and the board will live and die by the upcoming summer window

Arteta also needs to do some soul searching this summer. Cos 3 managers seem to have his number.
Somehow, I doubt that "soul-searching" is Mikel Arteta's forte.

Instead, - and I write this with as a frustrated Arsenal supporter - I am getting very sick and tired of the endless and fatuous and quite risible - embarrassing, actually, at times - blame games (the football, the ref, injuries.....) not to mention the endless excuses, complaining, whinging and whining whenever a result is not to our liking.

Now, to be perfectly candid, I don't mind other managers "having his number" - that is the nature of the game.

Things evolve, and (some) people learn from experience.

However, I do mind someone who refuses to learn from their mistakes, or refuses to address their failures and clear and evident short-comings yet persists in making the exact same mistakes year after year and season after season in the vain hope that the outcome will somehow improve.

None of this was a surprise, least of all, the result this evening.

Actually, the surprise would have been an Arsenal victory. For that matter, I would have been astonished - astounded, in fact - had we won the match, irrespective of whatever goal deficit we had had when heading into the game.
 
Last edited:
Chance now for Newcastle to avenge their 2023 EFL final loss to Man United. I bet they are hoping Spurs prevail over Liverpool because that would be the easiest game for them. Liverpool would pose a stronger challenge.

Thing is for Spurs, they can look towards United's 2023 win as an inspiration to 'do one' over Liverpool because 2023 was one of United's worst seasons ever and yet they came away as winners. So if United can do it, Spurs can too.
 
Last edited:
That linesman made a poor call. He was definitely in line with Harry but it is what it is plus United was the better team in second half.
 
Somehow, I doubt that "soul-searching" is Mikel Arteta's forte.

Instead, - and I write this with as a frustrated Arsenal supporter - I am getting very sick and tired of the endless and fatuous and quite risible - embarrassing, actually, at times - blame games (the football, the ref, injuries.....) not to mention the endless excuses, complaining, whinging and whining whenever a result is not to our liking.

Now, to be perfectly candid, I don't mind other managers "having his number" - that is the nature of the game.

Things evolve, and (some) people learn from experience.

However, I do mind someone who refuses to learn from their mistakes, or refuses to address their failures and clear and evident short-comings yet persists in making the exact same mistakes year after year and season after season in the vain hope that the outcome will somehow improve.

None of this was a surprise, least of all, the result this evening.

Actually, the surprise would have been an Arsenal victory. For that matter, I would have been astonished - astounded, in fact - had we won the match, irrespective of whatever goal deficit we had had when heading into the game.
Next season in my opinion is make or break for our Manager. I personally would give him another two seasons but he gotta come good next season

Slot is on course to win everything in his first season with Liverpool with team he inherited.

Arteta has been given plenty of time and resources but he has come short big time.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe
Isak to Arsenal will not be cheap i.e if he wants to leave Newcastle.

Newcastle can certainly offer him whatever he wants in wages.

Plus Liverpool are set to loose Salah and they will be in the market for a Forward player.
 
Next season in my opinion is make or break for our Manager. I personally would give him another two seasons but he gotta come good next season.
Actually, I think that he is quite a good manager, but - and, remember, I used to be a teacher, granted, a third level teacher, but a teacher nonetheless, and students who would not, or could not, learn, or failed to learn, or didn't want to learn, (not least from their mistakes) really, really, really irked me - but his inability - or, his refusal - to learn from his mistakes, and his insistence on repeating the exact same mistakes, is becoming rather trying.

Yes, we have players in key positions carrying injuries, but so, too, have many of our opponents.

Injuries mean not over-relying on, (or over-working) players who play in certain key positions, intelligent recruitment so that your squad does not look completely threadbare when key players are absent, and addressing the areas where you are clearly deficient, especially if these deficiencies are nothing new.
Slot is on course to win everything in his first season with Liverpool with team he inherited.
Agreed.

And the comparison between the pair of them does not remotely flatter us.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sal09
Actually, I think that he is quite a good manager, but - and, remember, I used to be a teacher, granted, a third level teacher, but a teacher nonetheless, and students who would not, or could not, learn, or failed to learn, or didn't want to learn, (not least from their mistakes) really, really, really irked me - but his inability - or, his refusal - to learn from his mistakes, and his insistence on repeating the exact same mistakes, is becoming rather trying.

Yes, we have players in key positions carrying injuries, but so, too have many of our opponents.

Injuries mean not over-relying on, (or over-working) players who play in certain key positions, intelligent recruitment so that your squad does not look completely threadbare when key players are absent, and addressing the areas where you are clearly deficient, especially if these deficiencies are nothing new.

Agreed.

And the comparison between the pair of them does not remotely flatter us.
Totally agree.

Starting Havertz last few games is beyond me. Yes benching might not help his confidence but being on the pitch is certainly not helping teams confidence or performance.

Start Nwaneri as false number 9. Give him a chance.

Every single one them of looked shattered and exhausted against Newcastle from the start.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe
Totally agree.

Starting Havertz last few games is beyond me. Yes benching might not help his confidence but being on the pitch is certainly not helping teams confidence or performance.

Start Nwaneri as false number 9. Give him a chance.
Agree.

Actually, I don't even mind starting Havertz (though, to be candid, I still harbour doubts about him, and have questions re his purchase, but cannot find fault with his work rate; mind you, when compared with Sterling - who has already amassed far more yellow cards this season than goals and assists combined - give me Havertz, any day...), though as a holding midfielder, not as a forward, still less, as a centre-forward.
 
I notice the UK sports media are going crazy over United's 2nd goal against Leicester because Maguire was offside but VAR is not used until the next round. Now here's the thing, one side is complaining VAR should be used in all rounds of the FA cup whilst there is another side say VAR should be removed from the game.

Do those against VAR really wants these Maguire situations to be a thing in the game again because that is what will happen if VAR is removed. For years and years there have been very questionable decisions in the FA cup that could have seen lesser teams beating premier league teams but because VAR was not in use, the premier league team won the day. This has caused many fans and opponents of VAR to call for it to be introduced into all rounds of the FA Cup.

But if VAR was removed completely from the game as many fans and supporters against VAR want to happen, it will just allow more of Maguire type goals to happen. If that what fans really want? to go back to the days of when there was no VAR and fans complaining that goals should not be given because offside's were not see or fouls were not seen.

PGMOL have tried to improve how ref's and linesman do their job and even with all the decades of extra training and assistance in helping them do the job's better, they still make errors.

VAR is not perfect by any means but at least it has caught many many goals that should not have been and many many goals that should have been. Do fans really want the game to go back to how it was when there was no VAR?
 
Just watched Orient do extremely well against City. They list 1-2 in the end. But they held their own for most of the game.
My dad is an O’s fan, so he will be gutted they didn’t make it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brucemr
I notice the UK sports media are going crazy over United's 2nd goal against Leicester because Maguire was offside but VAR is not used until the next round. Now here's the thing, one side is complaining VAR should be used in all rounds of the FA cup whilst there is another side say VAR should be removed from the game.

Do those against VAR really wants these Maguire situations to be a thing in the game again because that is what will happen if VAR is removed. For years and years there have been very questionable decisions in the FA cup that could have seen lesser teams beating premier league teams but because VAR was not in use, the premier league team won the day. This has caused many fans and opponents of VAR to call for it to be introduced into all rounds of the FA Cup.

But if VAR was removed completely from the game as many fans and supporters against VAR want to happen, it will just allow more of Maguire type goals to happen. If that what fans really want? to go back to the days of when there was no VAR and fans complaining that goals should not be given because offside's were not see or fouls were not seen.

PGMOL have tried to improve how ref's and linesman do their job and even with all the decades of extra training and assistance in helping them do the job's better, they still make errors.

VAR is not perfect by any means but at least it has caught many many goals that should not have been and many many goals that should have been. Do fans really want the game to go back to how it was when there was no VAR?
100%. It’s not like VAR has removed incorrect or inconsistent decisions has it?
One of the things I enjoyed about both cup games I’ve watched so far this weekend was how much more enjoyable the game is when it flows. Not stop start and waiting for the ref to watch a replay to know if you can celebrate or not.
VAR is ruining the modern game. Knock it on the head.
 
100%. It’s not like VAR has removed incorrect or inconsistent decisions has it?
One of the things I enjoyed about both cup games I’ve watched so far this weekend was how much more enjoyable the game is when it flows. Not stop start and waiting for the ref to watch a replay to know if you can celebrate or not.
VAR is ruining the modern game. Knock it on the head.
OK, so lets say VAR is removed, what do you say to fans of lesser teams that were on the verge of knocking out a premier league team or a very low ranked world cup team on the verge of knocking out one of the top elite teams but they lost because because of wrong decisions that lead to goals being scored. Do you tell those fans 'tough luck' that their team lost because of bad in game decisions, decisions that would have been caught by VAR.

VAR is a mess because people are not being trained on it properly. VAR always has a PGMOL ref in the video room and yet there are always other PGMOL ref's who will say the VAR decision was wrong. This proves there is something wrong with the system when you have PGMOL ref's unable to agree with one another. FA game rules are the same, there is no set of rules for one ref and another set of rules for another, they all work from the same rules and yet you still get ref's disagreeing with their fellow colleagues on a in game decision they made.
 
OK, so lets say VAR is removed, what do you say to fans of lesser teams that were on the verge of knocking out a premier league team or a very low ranked world cup team on the verge of knocking out one of the top elite teams but they lost because because of wrong decisions that lead to goals being scored. Do you tell those fans 'tough luck' that their team lost because of bad in game decisions, decisions that would have been caught by VAR.

VAR is a mess because people are not being trained on it properly. VAR always has a PGMOL ref in the video room and yet there are always other PGMOL ref's who will say the VAR decision was wrong. This proves there is something wrong with the system when you have PGMOL ref's unable to agree with one another. FA game rules are the same, there is no set of rules for one ref and another set of rules for another, they all work from the same rules and yet you still get ref's disagreeing with their fellow colleagues on a in game decision they made.
You say what you did for the 100 odd years we played football before VAR. These things happen and even out over a season. It’s not like VAR is getting it right all the time is it?

But then the game would be more fun to watch. Stopping so 3-4 people can debate a decision is not how it should be.

Sounds more like that weird egg ball game they are (apparently) playing tomorrow. I have zero interest in that.

What next? Break for a commercial break?
 
All sports should not shy from using the latest technology to its fullest.

Sure it should be adapted appropriately, but to simply choose not to use it because of some sense of tradition or purity is confounding to me. And all that does is make you somewhat pedestrian and stale.

You can avoid using tech for a 5 a side game if its what you want. But in global competitive sport where finance and livelihoods are at stake, you would be irresponsible to not use all the tools available to you. F1, Rugby etc managed to use tech appropriately but football always seems to have issues. And the tribalism doesn't help.

For me, Goal line technology and VAR have been a good additions to the sport. And have facilitated mostly fair unequivocal decision-making based on agreed evidence.

Now of course there are human elements in using technology, but that less an issue with the tech, and more an issue of human factors. Or in the case of Britain, outright incompetence. It doesn't help that we're not even using the most up to date version of the tech.

VAR may pause celebrations but the celebrations still occur. The game isn't 'gone', it's merely been adapted to an ever changing world. We watch games all over the globe in 4K due to technology. Players have access to all the latest data regarding nutrition, physio, recovery, equipment etc

I personally don't believe in this ideology that things 'even out' in the end. Its like believing in karma. And to me its something people say to make themselves feel better about an injustice.

Things shouldn't have to 'even out', we should strive to make things fair and accurate at every second of any competitive sport (and ideally life in general). Leicester would probably still be in the FA Cup if VAR was used.

Its one thing if the tech isn't available...a la Maradona Hand of Devil. But if its there, and not being used, then to me thats just incompetence.
 
Last edited:
All sports should not shy from using the latest technology to its fullest.

Sure it should be adapted appropriately, but to simply choose to not use it because of some sense of tradition or purity is confounding to me. And all that does is make you somewhat pedestrian and stale.

You can avoid using tech for a 5 a side game if its what you want. But in global competitive sport where finance and livelihoods are at stake, you would be irresponsible to not use all the tools available to you. F1, Rugby etc managed to use tech appropriately but football always seems to have issues. And the tribalism doesn't help.

For me, Goal line technology and VAR have been a good additions to the sport. And have facilitated mostly fair unequivocal decision-making based on agreed evidence.

Now of course there are human elements in using technology, but that less an issue with the tech, and more an issue of human factors. Or in the case of Britain, outright incompetence. It doesn't help that we're not even using the most up to date version of the tech.

VAR may pause celebrations but the celebrations still occur. The game isn't 'gone', it's merely been adapted to an ever changing world. We watch games all over the globe in 4K due to technology. Players have access to all the latest data regarding nutrition, physio, recovery, equipment etc

I personally don't believe in this ideology that things 'even out' in the end. Its like believing in karma. And to me its something people say to make themselves feel better about an injustice.

Things shouldn't have to 'even out', we should strive to make things fair and accurate at every second of any competitive sport (and ideally life in general). Leicester would probably still be in the FA Cup if VAR was used.

Its one thing if the tech isn't available...a la Maradona Hand of Devil. But if its there, and not being used, then to me thats just incompetence.
No issue with goalie technology because it's instantaneous. It's also always right. VAR is neither of those two things.
 
No issue with goalie technology because it's instantaneous. It's also always right. VAR is neither of those two things.
In general, I agree with the arguments put forward by @daneoni, but there are a few comments - remarks - I wish to add both to what he has written, and also, to the points made by @Apple fanboy.

@Apple fanboy: That ship has sailed - and not just on account of the technology: In the 1960s, 70s, 80s, yes, broadly speaking, - leaving aside the issue of once an advance - technological or otherwise, has been made, it is impossible not to pretend that it exists - I could have been - would have been - in agreement with you.

Decisions made by match officials were not challenged - even if erroneous - and nobody threatened to kill a referee (apart from mutters in the pub, post match, over a pint or two) if a decision was disputed.

However, and however: One of the things I dislike most about the current game - and I am appalled to admit that Arsenal are among the worst offenders with this egregious behaviour when seeking excuses to blame for poor performances (the ref, the ball, the pitch....) - is this blaming of match officials, this conduct on the part of aggrieved teams of challenging and surrounding referees - threatening them - bullying them, towering over them en masse and shouting at them, when a decision does not go your way.

In the current world - environment - of football - the financial rewards of success are so great, - while the price of failure is so costly - and the margins (sometimes) are so unimaginably narrow between success and failure, that it is in the interests of teams to bully, threaten, shout at, match officials and referees, to attempt to squeeze out anything which may serve to swing a result their way.

My chief concern is that - in the absence of being able to cite something supposedly technologically objective - such as VAR - when defending a position, or stance, that the bodies (both national and supranational/international, FA, FIFA, etc) that exist to regulate football will not act sufficiently robustly, or strongly, in support of match officials, or referees, when threatened, if decisions are made against powerful, popular, well-resourced teams that are upset by decisions that go against them.

Human error - unfortunately - is an insufficient defence in a world where football players earn weekly a salary that exceeds what the Prime Minister can hope to earn in a year. And match officials - unfortunately - earn nothing remotely approaching these mad numbers, nothing that can justify their having to face such insults, such threats, such appalling behaviour.

A world where social media can whip up visceral hatred over a matter of hours. A world where - most unfortunately - one must question the bona fides of some of those who run international competitions, as I fear that match officials may not receive sufficient protection from the consequences of decisions that some may disagree with.

My own personal view is that if VAR is to be suspended, teams - and that means both players and managers - should be hit with stratospheric fines (numbering - at the very least - millions of pounds/euros per week) if they act - behave - in any disgusting or disgraceful way - towards match officials, such as referees, and their fellow officials.
 
Last edited:
In general, I agree with the arguments put forward by @daneoni, but there are a few comments - remarks - I wish to add both to what he has written, and also, to the points made by @Apple fanboy.

@Apple fanboy: That ship has sailed - and not just on account of the technology: In the 1960s, 70s, 80s, yes, broadly speaking, - leaving aside the issue of once an advance - technological or otherwise, has been made, it is impossible not to pretend that it exists - I could have been - would have been - in agreement with you.

Decisions made by match officials were not challenged - even if erroneous - and nobody threatened to kill a referee (apart from mutters in the pub, post match, over a pint or two) if a decision was disputed.

However, and however: One of the things I dislike most about the current game - and I am appalled to admit that Arsenal are among the worst offenders with this egregious behaviour when seeking excuses to blame for poor performances (the ref, the ball, the pitch....) - is this blaming of match officials, this conduct on the part of aggrieved teams of challenging and surrounding referees - threatening them - bullying them, towering over them en masse and shouting at them, when a decision does not go your way.

In the current world - environment - of football - the financial rewards of success are so great, - while the price of failure is so costly - and the margins (sometimes) are so unimaginably narrow between success and failure, that it is in the interests of teams to bully, threaten, shout at, match officials and referees, to attempt to squeeze out anything which may serve to swing a result their way.

My chief concern is that - in the absence of being able to cite something supposedly technologically objective - such as VAR - when defending a position, or stance, that the bodies (both national and supranational/international, FA, FIFA, etc) that exist to regulate football will not act sufficiently robustly, or strongly, in support of match officials, or referees, when threatened, if decisions are made against powerful, popular, well-resourced teams that are upset by decisions that go against them.

Human error - unfortunately - is an insufficient defence in a world where football players earn weekly a salary that exceeds what the Prime Minister can hope to earn in a year. And match officials - unfortunately - earn nothing remotely approaching these mad numbers, nothing that can justify their having to face such insults, such threats, such appalling behaviour.

A world where social media can whip up visceral hatred over a matter of hours. A world where - most unfortunately - one must question the bona fides of some of those who run international competitions, as I fear that match officials may not receive sufficient protection from the consequences of decisions that some may disagree with.

My own personal view is that if VAR is to be suspended, teams - and that means both players and managers - should be hit with stratospheric fines (numbering - at the very least - millions of pounds/euros per week) if they act - behave - in any disgusting or disgraceful way - towards match officials, such as referees, and their fellow officials.
Yes I appreciate we aren’t going back. But the question was what would I want to see. So yes my opinion is to scap VAR.

Also completely agree with you on the constant complaining about the decision in a game. That’s nearly as bad as the rolling on the floor like you have been shot holding your head, when all that happened was a slight touch to your midriff.
When I played football if an opponent punched you, you’d not have gone down or let him know he had hurt you.
Now these players are diving all over the place then pleading with the ref to get the other guy sent off.

Unfortunately football is a reflection on society. Everyone is entitled and looking to blame someone else these days (well not everyone but you get the point).
 
No way Spurs get past Liverpool at Anfield, and no way Newcastle get past Liverpool at Wembley.

But should be a fun day out to Wembley if nothing else.

That’s the beauty of knock out football there’s every way.
Liverpool are firm favourites but in a one off game we can beat anyone when we’re in form.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.