The 2024-2025 Football Thread

[Scepticalscribe]

Well if they (and let’s be honest us!) hadn’t been blessed with 3 worse clubs one or both of them would have been relegated.

Actually, - and yes - that very thought crossed my mind.

Wolves are also part of that cluster of four clubs, although, to be quite candid, both you and Wolves are still sitting above the shocking sight of Manchester United and Spurs.

Can you imagine getting relegated and a Champions League spot. Championship League more like!

Indeed.

That thought also crossed my mind.

 

[pachyderm]

View attachment 2512607
COYS!

1 nil SPURS at the break!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Dear me.

Spurs lead by a goal to nil, the sort of ludicrous and lunatic goal - a farcical, flukey own goal - that seems almost fitting when it finds the net in such a bizarre setting.

Mind you, I did some reading recently, about how the Glazers actually came to own Manchester United, and proceeded to load a profitable club with outrageous levels of debt as a consequence of the manner of their purchase.

However, I would also argue that Sir Alex does not emerge with much credit from the whole, sorry, Rock of Gibraltar saga - a detail, or footnote, that I had entirely forgotten about.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Utd didn't show up until stoppage time. I can't believe they didn't bring on some subs earlier. Very poor performance.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Utd didn't show up until stoppage time. I can't believe they didn't bring on some subs earlier. Very poor performance.

Agree.

And Spurs - deservedly - claim the trophy.

To be candid, they seemed somewhat hungrier.

As for Manchester United, well, United seemed to have been sleep-walking their way through that game.

Until stoppage time, that is, when they rather belatedly appeared to wake up.

 

[daneoni]

Season of underdogs.

Will Amorim tender his resignation i wonder. Looks like the job might be too big for him.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Agree.

And Spurs - deservedly - claim the trophy.

To be candid, they seemed somewhat hungrier.

As for Manchester United, well, United seemed to have been sleep-walking their way through that game.

Until stoppage time, that is, when they rather belatedly appeared to wake up.

Agreed. Too little. Too late.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Season of underdogs.

Will Amorim tender his resignation i wonder. Looks like the job might be too big for him.

No he’ll wait to be sacked and walk away with a big payday.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Season of underdogs.

Will Amorim tender his resignation i wonder. Looks like the job might be too big for him.

I think that it may be too big for anyone at the moment.

No he’ll wait to be sacked and walk away with a big payday.

Agreed.

Actually, the Guardian today had a piece praising his emotional intelligence.

 

[laptech]

That has got to be one of the worst European final games ever. Both teams were atrocious and their positioning in the premier league is evidence of why. No European football, will finish the season in their 2nd worst position ever, the first being when they got relegated in the 70's. This will mean sponsors will not being paying as much to sponsor them as they used to be, they will not have the funds for transfers like they used to have resulting in not being able to afford top talent. Top talent will not want to join the club because they are not in Europe. All this will result in less money coming into the club onto of a debt that keeps increasing because of the yearly interest. The football stadium is in much need of repair, this has been well known for a number of years. The training ground needs improving and all this whilst 250 more staff will be sacked and ticket prices increased. Oh how the mighty have fallen. The only way United can succeed now is if the Glazers sell the club to a multi-billionaire, basically the same way how Man City were able to work their way to the top, by being owned by extremely rich owners.

The question will now be can Amorim make it work at United? He knows how to build a league winning team with little amount of funds to do it with. He has a system that is alien to United (they do not play 3 at the back) but will he be able to do it? Will his method of working work in the premier league? I guess everyone will find out when the new season starts, that's if he does not resign first.

 

[Silencio]

That was terrible. No hiding from the scope of the task ahead for United now. Pretty much a total systemic failure from top to bottom manifested itself on the pitch tonight — everyone must be held accountable.

Amorim bears much of the blame for the result tonight. He picked the wrong starting XI and was far too slow to make substitutions, but the quality of the squad he has to pick from is pretty dire, especially in attack. When Amad is neutralized and Bruno has his worst game of the season, they're cooked. Højlund is completely useless, but there is no other #9 in the squad. Absolute negligence.

I do think they need to stick with Amorim and give him a chance to prove himself with more players suited to his system. It was always going to be ugly playing his system with the existing squad of overrated, overpaid players — surely INEOS knew this and was prepared to ride it out. With no Europe and fewer matches on the schedule for next season, they need to be totally ruthless in clearing out the squad.

 

[Apple fanboy]

That was terrible. No hiding from the scope of the task ahead for United now. Pretty much a total systemic failure from top to bottom manifested itself on the pitch tonight — everyone must be held accountable.

Amorim bears much of the blame for the result tonight. He picked the wrong starting XI and was far too slow to make substitutions, but the quality of the squad he has to pick from is pretty dire, especially in attack. When Amad is neutralized and Bruno has his worst game of the season, they're cooked. Højlund is completely useless, but there is no other #9 in the squad. Absolute negligence.

I do think they need to stick with Amorim and give him a chance to prove himself with more players suited to his system. It was always going to be ugly playing his system with the existing squad of overrated, overpaid players — surely INEOS knew this and was prepared to ride it out. With no Europe and fewer matches on the schedule for next season, they need to be totally ruthless in clearing out the squad.

At least with no European football next season they can concentrate on the PL. like trying to stay in it! 😀

 

[Scepticalscribe]

That was terrible. No hiding from the scope of the task ahead for United now. Pretty much a total systemic failure from top to bottom manifested itself on the pitch tonight — everyone must be held accountable.

Amorim bears much of the blame for the result tonight. He picked the wrong starting XI and was far too slow to make substitutions, but the quality of the squad he has to pick from is pretty dire, especially in attack. When Amad is neutralized and Bruno has his worst game of the season, they're cooked. Højlund is completely useless, but there is no other #9 in the squad. Absolute negligence.

I do think they need to stick with Amorim and give him a chance to prove himself with more players suited to his system. It was always going to be ugly playing his system with the existing squad of overrated, overpaid players — surely INEOS knew this and was prepared to ride it out. With no Europe and fewer matches on the schedule for next season, they need to be totally ruthless in clearing out the squad.

Watching that (error-strewn, chaotic, bizarrely incompetent) game, it was pretty clear that the Premier League table didn't lie; it was clear that this was a game between two teams that both fully deserve to be where they currently are in the table.

However, while both teams were poor, and Spurs played with greater urgency, ambition, focus and hunger, and fully deserved their victory, Manchester United's somnolence, lack of urgency, lack of hunger, and yes, lack of direction, were all quite striking.

 

[laptech]

That was terrible. No hiding from the scope of the task ahead for United now. Pretty much a total systemic failure from top to bottom manifested itself on the pitch tonight — everyone must be held accountable.

Amorim bears much of the blame for the result tonight. He picked the wrong starting XI and was far too slow to make substitutions, but the quality of the squad he has to pick from is pretty dire, especially in attack. When Amad is neutralized and Bruno has his worst game of the season, they're cooked. Højlund is completely useless, but there is no other #9 in the squad. Absolute negligence.

I do think they need to stick with Amorim and give him a chance to prove himself with more players suited to his system. It was always going to be ugly playing his system with the existing squad of overrated, overpaid players — surely INEOS knew this and was prepared to ride it out. With no Europe and fewer matches on the schedule for next season, they need to be totally ruthless in clearing out the squad.

A ruthless clear out of the squad will not happen because a large amount of the squad still have 2 to 3 years left on their contracts so even if the club were to put everyone on the transfer list, those still with 2-3 years left on their contracts are not obligated to move even if transfer offers come in. A classic example is Maguire, he was put on the transfer list, numerous offers kept coming in for him but he said no to every one, he wanted to wind down his contract and it was only because of injuries to a number of defenders that the club took him off the transfer list.

A club can put a player on the transfer list but if that player does not want to go there is nothing a club can do about it bar from the club sacking the player.

How the club owners respond to the teams worst ever premier league performance will give a huge insight into just how they feel about the club they own because this season has been the clubs 2nd worst ever, it has been an extremely embarrassing season for the club owners and made even more embarrassing by being beaten in a European cup final by the premier leagues worst non relegated team. In my opinion, being put in that situation clubs owners would seriously not be happy and would thus command serious changes in the club. How will the Glazers and INEOS respond? because if they carry on as they are then fans of the clubs and football critics will be saying that the club owners do not care about the team and only care about how much money the club can make them. As an example, look at what the German FA did to the German team when they failed to get out of the group stages of a world cup. They were humiliated because it had never happened to the German team before. The German FA made wholesale changes, the manger was gone, all the players were gone, the majority of the back room staff were gone, it was a total reset because they knew such a thing could never be allowed to happen again. Question is now, will the United owners do something similar (granted they already have a manager in place).

 

[Madonepro]

So have my fingers crossed for the weekend. Hoping my team Fulham beat Man City, and Tottenham win, and Man Utd lose to Aston Villa. Seeing Man Utd at the bottom of those remaining in the premier league is so beautiful.

 

[laptech]

Watching that (error-strewn, chaotic, bizarrely incompetent) game, it was pretty clear that the Premier League table didn't lie; it was clear that this was a game between two teams that both fully deserve to be where they currently are in the table.

However, while both teams were poor, and Spurs played with greater urgency, ambition, focus and hunger, and fully deserved their victory, Manchester United's somnolence, lack of urgency, lack of hunger, and yes, lack of direction, were all quite striking.

Bit in bold, you noticed that as well did you? because the rest of the UK football pundits did as well, those from the BBC and ITV, from SKY, those covering it on BBC radio and the many Spurs and United fan channels on social media that was covering the game, all saying exactly the same thing about United. Some went as far to say that the way Amorim had set up the team he did so so they would lose. He played players who should not have been picked, he completely misread the game and failed to adjust the team when he saw how different Spurs were playing. Even spurs fan channels following the game were saying this is not how Spurs usually play.

As you point out the failings of United, Amorim did not adjust anything, he allowed the team to carry on behaving that way and even when it was not working a few mins into the 2nd half he did not make any substitutions until the 70th min of the game. He did nothing to inspire the team to win.

 

[laptech]

So have my fingers crossed for the weekend. Hoping my team Fulham beat Man City, and Tottenham win, and Man Utd lose to Aston Villa. Seeing Man Utd at the bottom of those remaining in the premier league is so beautiful.

Villa should comfortably beat United.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

A ruthless clear out of the squad will not happen because a large amount of the squad still have 2 to 3 years left on their contracts so even if the club were to put everyone on the transfer list, those still with 2-3 years left on their contracts are not obligated to move even if transfer offers come in. A classic example is Maguire, he was put on the transfer list, numerous offers kept coming in for him but he said no to every one, he wanted to wind down his contract and it was only because of injuries to a number of defenders that the club took him off the transfer list.

A club can put a player on the transfer list but if that player does not want to go there is nothing a club can do about it bar from the club sacking the player.

How the club owners respond to the teams worst ever premier league performance will give a huge insight into just how they feel about the club they own because this season has been the clubs 2nd worst ever, it has been an extremely embarrassing season for the club owners and made even more embarrassing by being beaten in a European cup final by the premier leagues worst non relegated team. In my opinion, being put in that situation clubs owners would seriously not be happy and would thus command serious changes in the club. How will the Glazers and INEOS respond? because if they carry on as they are then fans of the clubs and football critics will be saying that the club owners do not care about the team and only care about how much money the club can make them. As an example, look at what the German FA did to the German team when they failed to get out of the group stages of a world cup. They were humiliated because it had never happened to the German team before. The German FA made wholesale changes, the manger was gone, all the players were gone, the majority of the back room staff were gone, it was a total reset because they knew such a thing could never be allowed to happen again. Question is now, will the United owners do something similar (granted they already have a manager in place).

There will be a clear out, and not just because the club may wish to "cash in" some of their (depreciating) assets.

As frequently happens with relegated teams, the teams in question sell players, or, are compelled to sell players - or, players are poached, or head-hunted, or, simply want to move somewhere else where better opportunities lie..

Just this morning, I have read that Garnacho (by no means United's worst player) has, according to the Guardian, put his future at United "in doubt".

Another article quotes the captain, Fernandes, (also by no means United's worst player), rather gnomically, offering the following thoughts while simultaneously stressing his strong support of the manager ("He's the right man"):

“I have always been honest. I’ve always said I will be here until the club says to me that it’s time to go. I’m eager to do more, to be able to bring the club to the great days. In the day that the club thinks that I’m too much or it’s time to part ways, football is like this, you never know it. But I’ve always said it and I keep my word in the same way.

“If the club thinks it’s time to part ways because they want to do some cashing in or whatever, it’s what it is and football sometimes is like this. The players have said that this season has been unacceptable.”

Now, as is all too often the case with relegated teams, once the core competition (in this instance, the Europa Cup Final, not the last day of the Premier League) has concluded, players may choose to place themselves in the shop window and signal their desire for departure - which is what I think is happening here, and it is no coincidence that this is taking place this morning, the very first - even morning - following their defeat at the Europa Cup Final, and before the opening of the ,transfer window.

 

[laptech]

There will be a clear out, and not just because the club may wish to "cash in" some of their (depreciating) assets.

As frequently happens with relegated teams, the teams in question sell players, or, are compelled to sell players - or, players are poached, or head-hunted, or, simply want to move somewhere else where better opportunities lie..

Just this morning, I have read that Garnacho (by no means United's worst player) has, according to the Guardian, put his future at United "in doubt".

Another article quotes the captain, Fernandes, (also by no means United's worst player), rather gnomically, offering the following thoughts while simultaneously stressing his strong support of the manager ("He's the right man"):

“I have always been honest. I’ve always said I will be here until the club says to me that it’s time to go. I’m eager to do more, to be able to bring the club to the great days. In the day that the club thinks that I’m too much or it’s time to part ways, football is like this, you never know it. But I’ve always said it and I keep my word in the same way.

“If the club thinks it’s time to part ways because they want to do some cashing in or whatever, it’s what it is and football sometimes is like this. The players have said that this season has been unacceptable.”

Now, as is all too often the case with relegated teams, once the core competition (in this instance, the Europa Cup Final, not the last day of the Premier League) has concluded, players may choose to place themselves in the shop window and signal their desire for departure - which is what I think is happening here, and it is no coincidence that this is taking place this morning, the very first - even morning - following their defeat at the Europa Cup Final, and before the opening of the ,transfer window.

I agree there will be a clear out but not a 'ruthless' clear out. Players who are on the last year of their contract will be put up for sale and there are a number of them, Heaton (Goalkeeper), Lindelof, Jonny Evans, Eriksen. There are also a number of players out on loan who the club want to off load, mainly Rashford, Sancho, Antony and Malacia. Failing to win the Europa League was the last chance those on international teams had to get into the champions league, a competition where many international managers consider it a must for their players to be in if they want to be in their international team which means a number of United players will want to leave because they will fear their international place will now be under threat.

So just by natural events, contracts coming to an end, players on loan and players wanting to leave to protect their place in their international team, the club could be looking at the potential of 12-13 players that could be leaving the club at the end of the season and that is without the club pushing for a clear out. Luke Shaw, Fernandez, Mount, Casemiro, Hojlund, Onana, big name signings who have all seriously underperformed this season (Shaw and Mount been injured for most of it), which could push the number of players leaving the club this season to 19.

Amorim was reported saying after the game if the fans or the owners no longer have the confidence in him to be manager then he will leave but if he is to stay, how many of these players is he going to want to keep at the club to play a system that worked so well when he was manager at Sporting. The problem is though the system worked at Sporting Lisbon it does not mean it is going to work at United in the premiership. How much patience will the club owners have for him to see if it works?

 

[laptech]

Also to note, there is something good that has come out of this Europa final, West Ham no longer have the dubious accolade of being the worst league performing team in European history to win a European trophy (14th in the league when they won their European trophy) because that accolade now belongs to Spurs (17th in the league when they won their European trophy).

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Actually, I have a sneaking suspicion that - given that Manchester United had actually won the Europa League Final in 2017 when Jose Mourinho was manager (a time when they were criticised for undue negativity but were considerably better than they are now, and I write as no fan of Mourinho's), a feat, furthermore, crucially enhanced by the presence of Zlatan Ibrahimovic in that team during that campaign - someone who knew where the net was and could actually find it almost effortlessly - that Manchester United may have approached this competition - and above all, this final, bearing in mind that their opponents were Spurs, noted for flakiness and "Spursiness" when stressed - with some degree of complacency.

 

[laptech]

Actually, I have a sneaking suspicion that - given that Manchester United had actually won the Europa League Final in 2017 when Jose Mourinho was manager (a time when they were criticised for undue negativity but were considerably better than they are now, and I write as no fan of Mourinho's), a feat, furthermore, crucially enhanced by the presence of Zlatan Ibrahimovic in that team during that campaign - someone who knew where the net was and could actually find it almost effortlessly - that Manchester United may have approached this competition - and above all, this final, bearing in mind that their opponents were Spurs, noted for flakiness and "Spursiness" when stressed - with some degree of complacency.

In some respect what you say could have some truth about it but that all changed when United found out who they were getting in the final, a fellow premier league team who had beaten them 3 times in the season already. Apart from a few die hard United fans, all those I spoke to about the game and the lead up to the game, all the rest said it was going to be a win for Spurs purely based on the fact they had beaten United 3 times in the season already.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

In some respect what you say could have some truth about it but that all changed when United found out who they were getting in the final, a fellow premier league team who had beaten them 3 times in the season already. Apart from a few die hard United fans, all those I spoke to about the game and the lead up to the game, all the rest said it was going to be a win for Spurs purely based on the fact they had beaten United 3 times in the season already.

Perhaps.

Nevertheless, while Spurs fans may have relished and taken some satisfaction from the fact that they had already defeated Manchester United on a number of occasions during the current season, none of these games were an actual Cup Final, for, it is also true to say that Spurs have a (reasonably well deserved) reputation for brittleness, and flakiness - the so-called "Spursiness" - essentially choking - during games where the outcome really matters.

 

[laptech]

Well I found a way to annoy Spurs fans, by telling them that they are the worst team in European history to win a European cup final of any sort. The Spurs fans then say 'so what, we still won a European trophy', and I reply back with 'yeah but your the worst team in European history to do so', then they just glare at me lol.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well I found a way to annoy Spurs fans, by telling them that they are the worst team in European history to win a European cup final of any sort. The Spurs fans then say 'so what, we still won a European trophy', and I reply back with 'yeah but your the worst team in European history to do so', then they just glare at me lol.

Why on Earth would you wish to annoy Spurs fans?

They won a trophy - the fact that the match was atrocious and almost hilariously and dysfunctionally dreadful is irrelevant, it is over and Spurs won - and let them enjoy the fruits of their victory.