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The 2024-2025 Football Thread
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Why do do you think it was "too big" for him? What does that say about the other duds that were after him? Was the job too big for Ferguson initially? After all, Ferguson came from a provincial club to succeed Big Ron.
Moyes never got a real chance at Man Utd.
He inherited a squad that was at least a year "off their sell-by date", that Ferguson had kept "alive" for one last season by sheer will power (and charisma).
Then Moyes came in, got no help on the transfer market that Summer. The team desperately needed a handful of players that year, IMHO, and he got Fellaini at a very premium price. Now Fellini was a good player, but he was not a man who single handedly could go in and lift a whole team.
The only (big) mistake I think Moyes did was insisting on bringing in a lot of staff with him, dismissing some of the staff that knew Man Utd (both the remaining team and organisation as a whole), and thus not really take advantage of some of the continuity he could have drawn from...
He inherited a squad that was at least a year "off their sell-by date", that Ferguson had kept "alive" for one last season by sheer will power (and charisma).
Then Moyes came in, got no help on the transfer market that Summer. The team desperately needed a handful of players that year, IMHO, and he got Fellaini at a very premium price. Now Fellini was a good player, but he was not a man who single handedly could go in and lift a whole team.
The only (big) mistake I think Moyes did was insisting on bringing in a lot of staff with him, dismissing some of the staff that knew Man Utd (both the remaining team and organisation as a whole), and thus not really take advantage of some of the continuity he could have drawn from...
Very well said.
Moyes was never given the unqualified and unconditional support that was needed at the time.
This is one very fascinating topic. Bring your own staff or not. I see Ange usually works with the existing clubs he goes to. Is that why there are malcontents in the Spurs dressing room?
An absolutely fascinating topic, and @Corefile asks a very pertinent question re malcontents in the Spurs dressing room, as this is an angle, a perspective, that has never crossed my mind.
In any case, to my mind, this is not just a question of whether one should bring one's own staff or not - but to what extent one should do so.
Moyes was recommended by Ferguson and therefore I do not think for one minute that Ferguson would personally recommend a manger who he thought could not do the job. Ferguson believed Moyes could handle the job because if he didn't he would not have recommended him. When Moyes took the job at Everton they were a bottom to mid table team, always struggling and within 4 years with a persistent small budget he got that team into European competition something a lot of previous Everton managers failed to do. He took a mixture of experienced players and youth and made them into a top 7 team. People in the games always said they wondered what Moyes could do if he was given the chance of working with one of the top league teams. He was given that chance but everything worked against him. The club failed him with his transfers because the new vice executive chairman Ed Woodward who came in to replace the very experience David Gill, had no football experience what so ever. The Glazer siblings brought him in because of his background of being able to make money. The second reason is Moyes failed to understand how important Fergie's backroom staff was to the stable running of the club. He took way to long to make decision's on their future and in the end all the backroom staff made the decisions for him by resigning. Whilst many of the players were coming to the end of their terms when Ferguson decided to retire, the rest of the club from top to bottom was finely tuned but when all the backroom staff resigned that fine tuning vanished. The team and the club had to be handled delicately, 20 odd years of Ferguson's iron fist rule over the club, you could not just come in with a completely new crew and expect the fine tuning to continue and that is exactly what happened with Moyes. He failed to keep any of United's backroom staff, brought in his own crew which completely messed everything up. Moyes was the right man for the job, he failed because the club failed to help him and support him when he needed it most.
So much bad flows from the Ed Woodward appointment, it's hard to overstate. Laptech is spot on. Moyes may have thrived in a more stable environment, but he didn't do himself a lot of favors, either.
Looks like Garnacho will be on his way. If United are sticking with Amorim, that's the right call: Garna isn't as good as he thinks he is, and he's ill suited to Amorim's system. If they can sell Garnacho and replace him with Mattheus Cunha, who is much better suited to playing a narrower inside forward role, that's a win.
Congrats to Sunderland for dramatically overcoming Sheffield United at Wembley. Back in the PL at long last. Hope there's another season of Sunderland 'Til I Die in the works.
Looks like Garnacho will be on his way. If United are sticking with Amorim, that's the right call: Garna isn't as good as he thinks he is, and he's ill suited to Amorim's system. If they can sell Garnacho and replace him with Mattheus Cunha, who is much better suited to playing a narrower inside forward role, that's a win.
Congrats to Sunderland for dramatically overcoming Sheffield United at Wembley. Back in the PL at long last. Hope there's another season of Sunderland 'Til I Die in the works.
Arsenal Women win the Women's Champions league by beating the holders Barcelona Women who were the odds on favourites to win it again.
The curse of Sheffield United at Wembley continues. According to what the BBC wrote about the club, Sheffield United have not won a final of any kind at Wembley for 100 years. There last win at Wembley was in the 1925 FA Cup Final, winning 1-0 against Cardiff City. The BBC also noted that since the playoff format started in the 1980's, Sheffield United have contested 10 play off finals and have lost all of them. The curse continues.
I think that it is a bit fanciful to ascribe Sheffield United's defeat to the influence of "a curse".
The truth of the matter is that Sunderland took their chances, while, at the other end, their goal-keeper played a blinder; on such moments are games won and lost.
I’m sure your brother is very happy!
My Dads team, Leyton Orient play tomorrow to get back into the championship.
Very much so.
He has suffered as a supporter of that team, and has often lamented the fact that he fell for them, as a small child, in 1973, for he has since - ruefully - asked himself searching questions about such inexplicable things as what actually engenders enduring loyalty, and enduring love, for football teams, (they can command you and hold you in closer and more agonising binds than marriage vows at times), remarking that life would have been considerably easier had his heart led him to choose a different team.
But, that is not how he is made: His heart, once given, tends to remain with the object(s) of his affections (family, friends, football team....)
Good luck to them.
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Oh, dear.
What can I say?
Although, I will admit that I am laughing, reading your post (and knowing what team has captured your heart).
The Premier League season is over.
Of today's results, I have to say that I am very sorry for Villa, although it cannot be denied that they appeared to have been seized by an element of utterly self-destructive, footballing suicide during the game.
Of today's results, I have to say that I am very sorry for Villa, although it cannot be denied that they appeared to have been seized by an element of utterly self-destructive, footballing suicide during the game.
The Europa cup winners get hammered by Brighton 4-1 (no surprise there) and Notts Forrest miss out on champions league football by the skin of their teeth. They needed results to all go their way with them needing to beat Chelsea and as it happened all the results in the other games did go their way but they lost to Chelsea 1-0.
I'm not (sorry for Villa). Villa (and Newcastle) do this dance, where they overperform for bouts of a season. Then their squad gets stretched to the limit and they drop back down to type. Newcastle last season, Villa this one.
I can already hear Newcastle fans saying they're on the verge of sustained elite performances especially with Isak and Gordon...just like they were with Miguel Almiron...and Andy Caroll
Martinez possibly ending his last appearance for Villa with a sending off is mildly ironic
Good luck to them all.
Hopefully the newly promoted sides don't all fall away again next season
Utd and Spurs really have work to do. Still not convinced with Ange, but i think the bigger problem is that his squad is incredibly average.
Utd meanwhile are heading into year 13 post-Fergie yet look to be regressing even further.
I can already hear Newcastle fans saying they're on the verge of sustained elite performances especially with Isak and Gordon...just like they were with Miguel Almiron...and Andy Caroll
Martinez possibly ending his last appearance for Villa with a sending off is mildly ironic
Good luck to them all.
Hopefully the newly promoted sides don't all fall away again next season
Utd and Spurs really have work to do. Still not convinced with Ange, but i think the bigger problem is that his squad is incredibly average.
Utd meanwhile are heading into year 13 post-Fergie yet look to be regressing even further.
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This time, I am.
Granted, the red card for Martinez - what on earth was he thinking? - was fully deserved, but they had a perfectly good goal unfairly disallowed at a key moment in the game, which - when added to the self-destruct button earlier leant on by Martinez - proved to be a crucial - and critical - turning point in the game, an action which handed the initiative to an improbably skilful Manchester United.
Okay, fair point.
Fair point.
More than mildly ironic; I have absolutely no doubt that his performances played a crucial role in Villa's form, and in ending the season as well placed as they were.
Agreed.
Amen to that.
True.
Indeed.
Took my Little One to Liverpool parade. We missed the horrific incident by few minutes. Thoughts with anyone everyone affected.
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Terrible news. I’d not seen the news until you mentioned this. Glad you and yours are fine. Thoughts with those who are involved or witnessed it.
Man United cannot even win against a team of all stars in the first game of their pre-season Asian tour. The players on the all star team are all individuals who have not played together and yet they are pressed together to form a team to take on United. It just get's worse and worse for the club. The only shining light is that the club are getting paid £8 million to do this Asian tour. Much needed money.
Tbf if i've just lost a European final on the back of a terrible season. The last thing i'd want to do is to play even more pointless football. And i certainly wouldn't take the matches seriously if i'm gonna be sold in a few weeks.
Everyone needs a rest. There's been too much football frankly. And there are still two finals to go.
Everyone needs a rest. There's been too much football frankly. And there are still two finals to go.