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The AnandTech MBP with Retina display review is UP!

cardsdoc said:
Holy reviews batman! I've occasionally read anandtech reviews (or at least skimmed cause they're so long) but never really paid attention to the author nor did I know who Anand was. I'm awaiting a rMBP which will be an incredible upgrade from my 2007 MBP so I was particularly interested and read the whole thing. Anand really seems to be quite an impressive person. Extremely knowledgable, analytical, intelligent, insightful, and writes very well. I'm in a completely unrelated field (academic cardiologist) but have always been a computer nerd. It's always a pleasure coming across such experts in their respective fields (not me - I'm just a worker bee). If you read Macrumors Anand - strong work!
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Par for the course for Anand. Been reading his site for about a decade now and few review products as in-depth and eloquent. What I really like about Anand was that for the first 4-5 years of Anandtech he was strictly PC and then all of a sudden he started doing Mac coverage and now does it better than just about anyone. He's fair and balanced and always has been. A true lover of technology that never wastes time being bitter.
 
magbarn said:
It's not a strange issue if Anand's explanation is correct. His theory is that the current iGPU/dGPU in the rMBP doesn't have the hardware scalers to render at the rMBP resolutions as it hasn't been done before. So Apple has to render some of it in the CPU to make up for this. This is different on a multiple monitor setup where the internal GPU scalers are able to run as 1080p/1440p/1600p are already hard coded for those resolutions. If Haswell's GPU and 750GT next year has the hardware scalers for rMBP resolutions, it's going to be a much faster machine then this year's rMBP.
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Interesting fact: Windows Vista taxed the GPU to render Aero and Desktop Composition. It caused major performance issues because all of the "fancy" was too much for a lot of graphics cards (leading to the infamous "Vista Capable" incident). Fortunately Apple does not use stickers on its machines.

It wasn't until Vista SP2 and Windows 7 that Microsoft switched gears to offload the bulk of the heavy lifting off to the CPU, resulting a significant performance boost.

Seems to me Apple may have just stepped into a similar pot. Given how powerful the CPU is in the new Pro, it makes one wonder if the Retina is currently 90 or even 100% GPU driven and it's struggling with only 1GB of RAM.
 
revelated said:
Interesting fact: Windows Vista taxed the GPU to render Aero and Desktop Composition. It caused major performance issues because all of the "fancy" was too much for a lot of graphics cards (leading to the infamous "Vista Capable" incident). Fortunately Apple does not use stickers on its machines.

It wasn't until Vista SP2 and Windows 7 that Microsoft switched gears to offload the bulk of the heavy lifting off to the CPU, resulting a significant performance boost.

Seems to me Apple may have just stepped into a similar pot. Given how powerful the CPU is in the new Pro, it makes one wonder if the Retina is currently 90 or even 100% GPU driven and it's struggling with only 1GB of RAM.
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well thats the problem. the UI isn't fully driven by the gpu. currently, gpu tech just can't handle retina display at this capacity which is why its being offset to the CPU, leading to lagginess.
 
the 1GB of frame buffer isn't the issue. It's one of overall bandwidth which only more efficient software and newer GPU can handle.

Anand says that Apple is probably really looking forward to Haswell and Broadwell architectures because both will come with a significant graphics core upgrade.
 
You know I was thinking, one thing I appreciate (as a newer Mac owner) is the fact that the OS and the hardware is integrated. It seems like having high resolution displays on Windows based PCs would be hard to do unless MS was motivated to do it. The fact that Apple can control the apps (obviously some work needs to be done, like iWork), the OS and the hardware seems to make transitions like these easier. Not so that it can't be done and I don't know all the upcoming features in Windows 8. If Windows started supporting it, you would start to see various PC manufacturers implementing it.

I don't mind being a retina Guinea pig. I love my retina. I don't think it is for everyone but I needed a new computer and I needed one now. I made the leap and either way, I'm pretty happy to see what comes in the future.
 
The better thermals and quieter fans are a big reason i upgraded.

It really is mindblowing that apple wrote their own gpu-accelerated scaling routines for handling these resolutions, as the hardware doesn't have single-purpose hardware scalers that support them.

Mountain lion will be better, but it still won't fix all of the little lags that appear from time to time. It sounds like haswell will help on that front.

I've never minded being an early adopter and that certainly hasn't changed in this case.

I'll skip next year's model and get the 2014 model :)
 
So this review seems to confirm what others on here have been very concerned about: that the on-board and discrete graphics are not powerful and/or mature enough to deliver a flawless GUI user experience. That's a bit disconcerting.

What I'm unclear about is exactly when operations get offloaded to the CPU. I can't afford to have my CPU busy performing UI animations--I'd rather the GPU take care of that. I need that power to perform other complex operations. If anyone has any additional insight into this, it would be greatly appreciated.

It would seem to me that this laptop is not as suitable for Music Production (my intended use) as the non-retina Macbook Pro. Since working with software instruments and audio requires a lot of the CPU, it would seem that the regular Macbook Pro is a better choice for me. I think each person must look at considerations like this and make the choice for themselves.
 
"For the past couple of years I’ve been worried that it would wake up and decide the traditional Mac is a burden, and it should instead be in the business of strictly selling consumer devices. With its announcements two weeks ago in San Francisco, I can happily say that my fears haven’t come true. At least not yet."
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Wow. What are you smoking Anand? You can't upgrade it anymore! Proprietary flash memory and a fixed storage capacity - forever. And for all you that don't care about your warranty, the RAM is soldered and the freaking battery is glued in.

It doesn't get any more "consumer" than that. :(
 
NoMoreSony said:
Has anyone noted that two key important parameters for photographers such as color accuracy and color gamut by Retina Macbook's are really worse than by Early 2011 model - http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/5 ?
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True, but I wouldn't worry too much about that. The differences in those benchmark tests are too marginal to be noticed or of impact, and the retina display is superior by every other measure. I haven't installed the Spyder software yet, but calibration should make the overall accuracy even better.

I can tell you that for photography, the MBPR running Aperture is an absolutely mind blowing experience start to finish. Importing 20MB RAW images via USB3 to the SSD is astonishingly fast (I am coming from an early 2011 MBP with spinning HD). The image rendering in Aperture is absolutely beautiful. I have been working mostly in 1680x1050, because that is what I am accustom to coming from a machine with the HRAG display. Dialing back to Best (Retina) doesn't give me the real estate I am used to. I thought I would miss anti glare, but I honestly can't imaging this display looking as sharp with AG.

Workflow speed among my camera/CF reader, MBPR 2.6 512 16 running Aperture and Pegasus Thunderbolt RAID drive as just fantastic with no hang ups whatsoever. I have yet to install Photoshop or any of my NIK software plug ins to test those out. Without seeing it yet, we are going to need retina support for Photoshop ASAP though!

I am already addicted to the USB3 card reader speed, with the downside being that I will probably break down and buy an undated Thunderbolt ACD when it comes out with USB3, so I can work fully docked when in my office.

For me as photographer, the MBPR is a step up in every way. The Aperture experience makes me really not care about things like web browser scrolling lag until ML comes out. It isn't even that noticeable unless running my 2011 side by side, or reading these boards too much!
 
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CUsurfer said:
So this review seems to confirm what others on here have been very concerned about: that the on-board and discrete graphics are not powerful and/or mature enough to deliver a flawless GUI user experience. That's a bit disconcerting.

What I'm unclear about is exactly when operations get offloaded to the CPU. I can't afford to have my CPU busy performing UI animations--I'd rather the GPU take care of that. I need that power to perform other complex operations. If anyone has any additional insight into this, it would be greatly appreciated.

It would seem to me that this laptop is not as suitable for Music Production (my intended use) as the non-retina Macbook Pro. Since working with software instruments and audio requires a lot of the CPU, it would seem that the regular Macbook Pro is a better choice for me. I think each person must look at considerations like this and make the choice for themselves.
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OpenCL handles this for OS level services and apps that leverage it. It will leverage whatever compute resources are available but likely defaults to the GPU. I think the Retina will chew through audio applications quite easily. Core Audio is a very mature framework and fully 64-bit.

Krazy Bill said:
Wow. What are you smoking Anand? You can't upgrade it anymore! Proprietary flash memory and a fixed storage capacity - forever. And for all you that don't care about your warranty, the RAM is soldered and the freaking battery is glued in.

It doesn't get any more "consumer" than that. :(
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Define consumer as you wish. There's nothing in the dictionary that states a Professional device must be upgradable.
 
GUI is flawless for me, but ofc there will be people out there who's super picky and will die inside when they don't scroll at 5000fps.
 
Krazy Bill said:
Wow. What are you smoking Anand? You can't upgrade it anymore! Proprietary flash memory and a fixed storage capacity - forever. And for all you that don't care about your warranty, the RAM is soldered and the freaking battery is glued in.

It doesn't get any more "consumer" than that. :(
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Way to misinterpret what Anand said by selectively leaving out the first sentence of his paragraph. The full paragraph is:

Apple makes the bulk of its revenue from devices that don’t look like traditional personal computers. For the past couple of years I’ve been worried that it would wake up and decide the traditional Mac is a burden, and it should instead be in the business of strictly selling consumer devices. With its announcements two weeks ago in San Francisco, I can happily say that my fears haven’t come true. At least not yet.
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In other words, he's talking about the form factor of the devices that make up most of Apple's revenue today and it's a perfectly reasonable and fair observation: iPhones and iPads don't "look like" traditional PCs or Macs as we've known them for 30 years. His comments weren't directed at the upgradeability of these devices; they're obviously not user-upgradeable but that's not what makes them distinctive from a traditional PC or Mac. If upgradeability was the be all and end all of what makes a device a PC, it's hard to see how you could call a laptop a PC since four of its most critical components - the CPU, GPU, motherboard and display - haven't been upgradeable since the notebook was invented.

And btw, nothing about this was upgradeable either:

511px-Macintosh_128k_transparency.png


If you're going to challenge a point made by the reviewer, try not to do it by putting words in his mouth.
 
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Is there a DVI to TB converter?
Anyone here test an Apple Cinema 30" with the rMBP yet?
Would love to know results :)
 
This guy is a legend. He's so far out on his own there are no distant seconds in sight.

Kudos........again :rolleyes: :D
 
ddarko said:
...If upgradeability was the be all and end all of what makes a device a PC, it's hard to see how you could call a laptop a PC since four of its most critical components - the CPU, GPU, motherboard and display - haven't been upgradeable since the notebook was invented.

If you're going to criticize the reviewer, try not to do it by putting words in his mouth.
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Ive always wondered why people think laptops should be upgrade-able. I always perceived them as locked down throw away computers and yes even the ones that can be "upgraded".
Ive owned a few personal and work to date never bothered to upgrade anything one em.
 
Chupa Chupa said:
Another fantastic, thoughtful, and honest Anandtech review. I already agree with everything said in this review, but if I didn't it's an immensely strong argument, both for, and against, buying the RMBP right now. I've been loving my RMBP (running with ML is better!) but buyers should understand that Apple hit the ball so far out of the park it's going to take a while for the right fielder to catch up with it. This is not the machine for Type A personalities or non-early adopters. But it's time for everybody to mentally adapt because, as the review states, the era of the computer as sealed appliance is here.
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Totally agree - a great review and evidence for and against it. It's totally the future and I can see that, but I think the review has convinced me that now is probably too early for me personally to jump on board. As Anand said, Haswell and Broadwell will really make the whole retina concept come to life. Plus, 13" Retina would be ideal.

The whole acceptance of the sealed and light machine has actually pushed me further in favour of a MBA over a regular MBP.
 
I was waiting and hoping AnandTech's review would discuss charge time but I didn't see anything in the battery section. Can any current users answer this for me:
How is charge time for the rMBP? The biggest downside to the retina iPad was the doubled charge time. It's can live with that on my iPad but I'm wondering if the rMBP has a long charge time also and if that's been a downer for any adopters.
 
Guess I will wait at least a month before I decide if I want the retina or wait until next year
 
nuckinfutz said:
OpenCL handles this for OS level services and apps that leverage it. It will leverage whatever compute resources are available but likely defaults to the GPU. I think the Retina will chew through audio applications quite easily. Core Audio is a very mature framework and fully 64-bit.
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I think it's a hard thing to quantify, but Anands review seems to allude to the fact that the CPU has to do more work when performing OSX GUI tasks than the previous iterations (especially when using the higher scaled resolutions--which will be a must for me). Likely I will have my sequencer window up when working, so there really isn't anything complicated going on to display. I'd like the think that all of the CPU power can be dedicated to my DAW and accompanying plugins in such a situation. I just want to be sure that all of my CPU resources are devoted to my audio application and not to drawing what's on screen. Is there any way to verify that this will be the case?
 
Anone notice the BIG tip from the review; chose to run iWork (or any cocoa app) in 'high resolution' mode and for now it's not a bad stopgap until 'real' retina versions are released (you can do this by getting the info of each app from the right click popup).

Not sure why Apple defaults iWork to low resolution?!
 
Another great review by the legend

Like he says; being a current SB/SSD owner, i'm gonna wait until Haswell to upgrade.
 
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Here's the key snippet from Anand's review:

AnandTech said:
To be quite honest, the hardware in the rMBP isn’t enough to deliver a consistently smooth experience across all applications. At 2880 x 1800 most interactions are smooth but things like zooming windows or scrolling on certain web pages is clearly sub-30fps. At the higher scaled resolutions, since the GPU has to render as much as 9.2MP, even UI performance can be sluggish. There’s simply nothing that can be done at this point - Apple is pushing the limits of the hardware we have available today.
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OUCH... so basically what Anand is saying that the hardware components are not potent enough for 100% flawlessly retina use, and nothing that can be done about it... OUCH!
 
Ah man, this did it, order cancelled. I know that sounds harsh but this truthfully is a pure early adopters machine.

As a designer, it will suck to work with a blurry Adobe CS suite. The performance "issue" is just the nail in the coffin for me. I'm sure it's a great machine but $2,400 is too steep to ignore everything. Going to wait until next year.
 
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