The AnandTech MBP with Retina display review is UP!

[mattkidd]

Hmmm I can see the problem in regards to the lag especially with Facebook, its SLOW. Most other things are ok, struggles a little once zoomed in.

What I cannot understand the logic behind, is that a £300 budget laptop can effortlessly scroll Facebook yet my £2000 Mac cannot without struggling

I know the resolutions higher and everything but seriously? is it that difficult, if games can run at insane resolutions and be playable (Left 4 Dead 2 Steam High Settings) yet Facebook cannot be rendered correctly and is almost unusable. I know some of the issues will be resolved in Mountain Lion, but is there literally nothing else that can be done about this? that Apple is potentially working on updates for as we speak...?

 

[magbarn]

Ah man, this did it, order cancelled. I know that sounds harsh but this truthfully is a pure early adopters machine.

As a designer, it will suck to work with a blurry Adobe CS suite. The performance "issue" is just the nail in the coffin for me. I'm sure it's a great machine but $2,400 is too steep to ignore everything. Going to wait until next year.

I abandoned aperture several years ago for LR and I'm not going back. At adobes usual glacial pace of upgrades, by the time LR and cs are retina aware haswell will be out.

 

[Andrmgic]

Hmmm I can see the problem in regards to the lag especially with Facebook, its SLOW. Most other things are ok, struggles a little once zoomed in.

What I cannot understand the logic behind, is that a £300 budget laptop can effortlessly scroll Facebook yet my £2000 Mac cannot without struggling

I know the resolutions higher and everything but seriously? is it that difficult, if games can run at insane resolutions and be playable (Left 4 Dead 2 Steam High Settings) yet Facebook cannot be rendered correctly and is almost unusable. I know some of the issues will be resolved in Mountain Lion, but is there literally nothing else that can be done about this? that Apple is potentially working on updates for as we speak...?

Games aren't subject to apple's resolution scaling that the general OS is..

Part of the facebook problem is that decoding the jpeg compression of the images on the page falls to the cpu.. makes it laggier than other pages that aren't so image heavy.

Running at apple's default "best for retina" resolution selection reduces the workload placed on the gpu compared to the other scaling modes you might choose.

Unfortunately, to get the most efficient workspace out of that mode requires that your apps be updated for the retina display.

 

[limo79]

Indeed AnandTech write good reviews, but I disagree in some points:

"The GT 650M is fast enough to drive the rMBP’s 2880 x 1800 panel at native resolution at playable frame rates, around 18 fps on average. Connected to an external 2560 x 1440 display however the GT 650M is fast enough to deliver around 30 fps in Diablo 3."

It is hard to call 18fps a really playable framerate. 30 fps is also not so good result. It seems that he moved a baseline fps limit down and created a new standard, just because Apple adopt hi-res Retina display. We can get to the point that 10fps is a great result because it is Apple

Anand also compared MBP 2011 with rMBP 2012 - two different products. Why did not he compare MBP 2012 with rMBP 2012 it and MBP 2011 with MBP 2012 ? I do not know, but such comparison is more reasonable to test two products from the same year with the same electronics, but just different cooling system and to verify improvement MBP 2012 over 2011 model. I wonder how much effective is a new cooling system and vent holes in rMBP vs classic MBP.

 

[Pentad]

There seem to be a lot of satisfied sheep here in the forums.

There, I fixed that for you.

 

[calderone]

Facebook scrolling: The new benchmark

In all seriousness, I am going to wait for the next gen.

 

[Nostromo]

True, but I wouldn't worry too much about that. The differences in those benchmark tests are too marginal to be noticed or of impact, and the retina display is superior by every other measure. I haven't installed the Spyder software yet, but calibration should make the overall accuracy even better.

I can tell you that for photography, the MBPR running Aperture is an absolutely mind blowing experience start to finish. Importing 20MB RAW images via USB3 to the SSD is astonishingly fast (I am coming from an early 2011 MBP with spinning HD). The image rendering in Aperture is absolutely beautiful. I have been working mostly in 1680x1050, because that is what I am accustom to coming from a machine with the HRAG display. Dialing back to Best (Retina) doesn't give me the real estate I am used to. I thought I would miss anti glare, but I honestly can't imaging this display looking as sharp with AG.

Workflow speed among my camera/CF reader, MBPR 2.6 512 16 running Aperture and Pegasus Thunderbolt RAID drive as just fantastic with no hang ups whatsoever. I have yet to install Photoshop or any of my NIK software plug ins to test those out. Without seeing it yet, we are going to need retina support for Photoshop ASAP though!

I am already addicted to the USB3 card reader speed, with the downside being that I will probably break down and buy an undated Thunderbolt ACD when it comes out with USB3, so I can work fully docked when in my office.

For me as photographer, the MBPR is a step up in every way. The Aperture experience makes me really not care about things like web browser scrolling lag until ML comes out. It isn't even that noticeable unless running my 2011 side by side, or reading these boards too much!

I'm a photographer as well and your comparison is very informative.

I looked at those benchmarks, and it shows me a really fantastic black level and a much higher maximum contrast than on the matte display.

On the other side is the slightly less bright white and a slightly reduced gamut. The less bright white is probably more an advantage, as it will be closer to what's going to be printed.

Not sure what the slightly smaller gamut will mean. I mean, one really has to see which colors can and cannot be displayed.

From what I have read so far, the important colors are displayed really, really well. The matte screen, though, is a particularly good screen. How do you compare the two in color impression? (all aside that editing will most likely be done on an external display anyway).

Second question: some people here write about lags the new retina MBP has, with the GUI taking processing power off the CPU. Have you noticed anything like this, and is it really so noticeable as some people say in their posts?

 

[cmChimera]

There, I fixed that for you.

Yeah that makes sense. Someone likes their computer, obviously they must be a fanboy. Grow up.

 

[blueicedj]

Do you think they can allow multiple cores to take over scrolling work in safari so it runs at the same fps as it does in the non retina macs? This is really the only issue that has me worried and I hope that Apple has a fix in the works for this that doesn't require every single website to modify their designs...

 

[Office Hours]

I abandoned aperture several years ago for LR and I'm not going back. At adobes usual glacial pace of upgrades, by the time LR and cs are retina aware haswell will be out.

I'm thinking that the whole suite wont be until CS 6.5. I use a large range of Adobe CS too.

Right now, I'm on the fence re: canceling my order. I'm expecting the base w/ the 16GB upgrade (~$2,400) What's a reasonable expected resell value for a Macbook Pro a year from now? I'm guessing that this one will retain decently considering that it's the first of a new generation. If I could get a decent amount back, I will keep and resell. If it's a major loss, I do have a HP Envy 17 3D (SB i7, 16GB, 6850m, SSD + HDD + BR) to hold me over for another tear.

 

[Hellhammer]

Indeed AnandTech write good reviews, but I disagree in some points:

"The GT 650M is fast enough to drive the rMBP’s 2880 x 1800 panel at native resolution at playable frame rates, around 18 fps on average. Connected to an external 2560 x 1440 display however the GT 650M is fast enough to deliver around 30 fps in Diablo 3."

It is hard to call 18fps a really playable framerate. 30 fps is also not so good result. It seems that he moved a baseline fps limit down and created a new standard, just because Apple adopt hi-res Retina display. We can get to the point that 10fps is a great result because it is Apple

Playability is kind of an opinion question. 18fps can be enough if it doesn't go much below that. The problem is that in intensive scenes the fps may drop to around 5, which is unplayable, so it's up to the game. If the game looks better at native res and 18fps than at some other res and higher fps, I would call it playable.

Also, it's good to keep in mind that we are talking about a laptop here. Laptops have always been more limited in terms of gaming and the baseline has never been that high.

Anand also compared MBP 2011 with rMBP 2012 - two different products. Why did not he compare MBP 2012 with rMBP 2012 it and MBP 2011 with MBP 2012 ? I do not know, but such comparison is more reasonable to test two products from the same year with the same electronics, but just different cooling system and to verify improvement MBP 2012 over 2011 model. I wonder how much effective is a new cooling system and vent holes in rMBP vs classic MBP.

Because he does not have a 2012 MBP (yet). The review already took two weeks and adding a new product to the mix would have postponed it again. Benchmarking takes a while, especially battery life tests, and you would have to use the laptop for a good period of time before you can really write something about it.

 

[calderone]

I'm thinking that the whole suite wont be until CS 6.5. I use a large range of Adobe CS too.

Right now, I'm on the fence re: canceling my order. I'm expecting the base w/ the 16GB upgrade (~$2,400) What's a reasonable expected resell value for a Macbook Pro a year from now? I'm guessing that this one will retain decently considering that it's the first of a new generation. If I could get a decent amount back, I can just resell. If it can't, I do have a SB HP Envy 17 3D (i7, 16GB, 6850m, SSD + HDD + BR) to hold me over.

Probably not terribly high. Apple will likely greatly improve on the second version. This one may fall into 1st gen Air status. I would expect no more than $2000 in a year.

 

[Krazy Bill]

And btw, nothing about this was upgradeable either:

You pick the 1984 Mac as the shining example for Apple's success? LOL! I wonder why they came out with "upgradeable" and modular Macintosh II in 1987?

Define consumer as you wish. There's nothing in the dictionary that states a Professional device must be upgradable.

Who cares what a "pro" is or in what book you find a definition? You're missing the point. One day you can upgrade RAM and storage, the next you can't. Why is this better for you?

Sorry. Until one of you apologists can tell me how this is a win for the end user I'll hold my ground.

 

[magbarn]

I'm thinking that the whole suite wont be until CS 6.5. I use a large range of Adobe CS too.

Right now, I'm on the fence re: canceling my order. I'm expecting the base w/ the 16GB upgrade (~$2,400) What's a reasonable expected resell value for a Macbook Pro a year from now? I'm guessing that this one will retain decently considering that it's the first of a new generation. If I could get a decent amount back, I will keep and resell. If it's a major loss, I do have a HP Envy 17 3D (SB i7, 16GB, 6850m, SSD + HDD + BR) to hold me over for another tear.

Well my 2011 2.2 bought at $2400 last year is going for $1200 on ebay. So I'm out $1200 even before auction/PayPal fees. Depreciation may/may not be as high on the rMBP pending on how much better Haswell rMBP will be. Either case if you have a 2011 mbp without a ssd, I'd just get a ssd for it now for the speed boost as it'll be almost as quick as the rMBP in most tasks of course minus gaming/display quality. You'll lose much less with that choice

 

[jcpb]

Ah man, this did it, order cancelled. I know that sounds harsh but this truthfully is a pure early adopters machine.

As a designer, it will suck to work with a blurry Adobe CS suite. The performance "issue" is just the nail in the coffin for me. I'm sure it's a great machine but $2,400 is too steep to ignore everything. Going to wait until next year.

Look at it this way.

You can wait for your dream machine to arrive, except not only it never does, but also by the time it does, your minimum performance requirements have changed as well. Whatever that's released sometime into the future simply will not be fast enough to handle what you need to do by then, as opposed to being fast enough to do what is available right now. If you depend on your laptop to make a living, this kind of thinking will only hurt you.

Alternatively, you can get what is available now and deal with its shortcomings head-on. $2400 is nothing if you can claim the upgrade as a business expense and claim against your income taxes.

MBPR with Haswell will kick lots of behinds? Wait until you see MBPR with Broadwell. You're never going to win by waiting for your 'dream machine' to arrive.

 

[calderone]

Look at it this way.

You can wait for your dream machine to arrive, except not only it never does, but also by the time it does, your minimum performance requirements have changed as well. Whatever that's released sometime into the future simply will not be fast enough to handle what you need to do by then, as opposed to being fast enough to do what is available right now. If you depend on your laptop to make a living, this kind of thinking will only hurt you.

Alternatively, you can get what is available now and deal with its shortcomings head-on. $2400 is nothing if you can claim the upgrade as a business expense and claim against your income taxes.

MBPR with Haswell will kick lots of behinds? Wait until you see MBPR with Broadwell. You're never going to win by waiting for your 'dream machine' to arrive.

No, but waiting for a machine that doesn't choke up when scrolling a web page would be ideal. No sense in buying this product at this point if it can't perform.

The review was clear: the hardware can't keep up. Maybe the next one will jump that hurdle.

 

[jcpb]

No, but waiting for a machine that doesn't choke up when scrolling a web page would be ideal. No sense in buying this product at this point if it can't perform.

The review was clear: the hardware can't keep up. Maybe the next one will jump that hurdle.

Problem is, by the time Haswell arrives next year, we won't just be interested at lag-free operation with existing MBPRs. And we'll be here with the same threads all over again complaining how the 2013 MBPRs are not ready for primetime.

You can try, but you're never going to win. Technology never stands still, neither do performance requirements.

 

[magbarn]

Problem is, by the time Haswell arrives next year, we won't just be interested at lag-free operation with existing MBPRs. And we'll be here with the same threads all over again complaining how the 2013 MBPRs are not ready for primetime.

You can try, but you're never going to win. Technology never stands still, neither do performance requirements.

You're not getting it. The target is a gpu setup that's fast enough for rMBP. As an analogy, let's say you have a game that isnt smooth unless you reach the target fps of 60. Today's latest laptop is only capable of 40 fps. Some are satisfied with this, but others like me expect more. 2013 rMBP is capable of 60 fps. Putting it in the good enough category. Why would we care so much to upgrade if 2014 is 80 fps while our 'outdated' 2013 are still fine at 60 fps? I know if I bought the 2012, I would throw away another grand in upgrading to the 2013.

 

[JasonQG]

You're not getting it. The target is a gpu setup that's fast enough for rMBP. As an analogy, let's say you have a game that isnt smooth unless you reach the target fps of 60. Today's latest laptop is only capable of 40 fps. Some are satisfied with this, but others like me expect more. 2013 rMBP is capable of 60 fps. Putting it in the good enough category. Why would we care so much to upgrade if 2014 is 80 fps while our 'outdated' 2013 are still fine at 60 fps? I know if I bought the 2012, I would throw away another grand in upgrading to the 2013.

But in 2013, you'll have moved onto another game that is more demanding. It never stops.

 

[Eallan]

No, but waiting for a machine that doesn't choke up when scrolling a web page would be ideal. No sense in buying this product at this point if it can't perform.

The review was clear: the hardware can't keep up. Maybe the next one will jump that hurdle.

Well, facebook is the worst performing page I've tried.

I couldn't care less. It's not even noticeable unless you bounce up and down in hyperspeed on facebook. The display is easily worth a slightly laggier facebook.

The rest of the machine is a total pleasure to use.

 

[jcpb]

You're not getting it. The target is a gpu setup that's fast enough for rMBP. As an analogy, let's say you have a game that isnt smooth unless you reach the target fps of 60. Today's latest laptop is only capable of 40 fps. Some are satisfied with this, but others like me expect more. 2013 rMBP is capable of 60 fps. Putting it in the good enough category. Why would we care so much to upgrade if 2014 is 80 fps while our 'outdated' 2013 are still fine at 60 fps? I know if I bought the 2012, I would throw away another grand in upgrading to the 2013.

Oh really?

By the time Haswell is released, the goal posts will change as well. We won't be benchmarking 2013 MBPR based on 2012 needs. Of course next year's update will be good enough to run today's things. The better question is, is it good enough for next year's needs?

 

[mario-64]

It wasn't too clear to me when he continued with the discussion whether the lagginess only came when the resolution was beyond what is considered 'optimal'. I doubt I'll be working in a resolution outside of what is recommended, but if Safari (etc) is still slow with that setting, that would be pretty disappointing.

I have the same question. Can anyone confirm? Is the UI lag only when running non-optimal resolutions?

 

[Hellhammer]

Who cares what a "pro" is or in what book you find a definition? You're missing the point. One day you can upgrade RAM and storage, the next you can't. Why is this better for you?

Sorry. Until one of you apologists can tell me how this is a win for the end user I'll hold my ground.

Consumers have actually voted for this with their wallets. MacBook Air was basically an experiment for Apple. Its goal was to see whether consumers are ready to sacrifice things such as upgradeability, storage and performance for a smaller and lighter machine. Consumers voted yes with their wallets.

Seriously, most people have no idea that they can even upgrade their computers. For most people, the only upgrade they are aware of is buying a brand new computer. It's an extremely small minority that cannot justify buying a rMBP just because its upgradeability is very limited (the SSD is upgradeable). The pros of rMBP can easily outweigh the limited upgradeability.

Is it a step back? Well, not really - it's actually a step forward. In the past, every component in every computer was upgradeable but that's not the trend anymore. Look at tablets for example, consumers love them even though they have zero upgradeable parts.

 

[jcpb]

No, but waiting for a machine that doesn't choke up when scrolling a web page would be ideal. No sense in buying this product at this point if it can't perform.

The review was clear: the hardware can't keep up. Maybe the next one will jump that hurdle.

Then feel free to keep waiting.

The next one - the one that is magically faster at everything now and later - will never arrive, and you will just keep waiting for one. Good luck.

 

[RealEyes]

Then feel free to keep waiting.

The next one - the one that is magically faster at everything now and later - will never arrive, and you will just keep waiting for one. Good luck.

How is mission control and workspace switching?