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The Bendguy Cheated You Again.

If there's a weak point that isn't found by mans complicated test machinery but is found by a monkeys (man) hands then this can apply if pocket carry finds said weak spot.

Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world - Archimedes
 
TJ82 said:
Sitting on an iPhone is abuse, because it's not strong enough to withstand the sort of pressures other phones have endured since mobile phones became popular.
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Except that you can't really prove that statement. The only evidence you have right now is some YouTube videos and a CR test. I don't see a flood of reports of iPhones bending in people's back pockets. I see one where one supposedly bent in someone's purse, one where a phone was bent in a front pocket and some where people intentionally bent phones in stores. I have yet to see a single report of someone bending one in a back pocket. Have you seen any?
 
Surf Monkey said:
Except that you can't really prove that statement. The only evidence you have right now is some YouTube videos and a CR test. I don't see a flood of reports of iPhones bending in people's back pockets. I see one where one supposedly bent in someone's purse, one where a phone was bent in a front pocket and some where people intentionally bent phones in stores. I have yet to see a single report of someone bending one in a back pocket. Have you seen any?
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Worse actually. People have had them bent in their front pockets.

Hence bendgate.

Unless you're a tinfoil hatter and accusing people of lying of course. :D
 
Zxxv said:
If there's a weak point that isn't found by mans complicated test machinery but is found by a monkeys (man) hands then this can apply if pocket carry finds said weak spot.

Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world - Archimedes
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Pretty big if, considering the current lack of evidence indicating a rash of pocket-bent phones, yes?

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TJ82 said:
Worse actually. People have had them bent in their front pockets.

Hence bendgate.

Unless you're a tinfoil hatter and accusing people of lying of course. :D
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For the sake of this exchange a front pocket bend isn't "worse." It's nothing because it doesn't support the idea that sitting on the phone = bent phone. However, to follow your point, how many reports of front pocket bends have we seen here? Two?
 
Surf Monkey said:
Pretty big if, considering the current lack of evidence indicating a rash of pocket-bent phones, yes?

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For the sake of this exchange a front pocket bend isn't "worse." It's nothing because it doesn't support the idea that sitting on the phone = bent phone. However, to follow your point, how many reports of front pocket bends have we seen here? Two?
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There is no idea that sitting on a phone = bent phone. What are you talking about?

Are you making up arguments so that you can argue with yourself or something?

Explain.
 
Surf Monkey said:
You're right. I got the numbers wrong. Beyond that you're still wrong. It doesn't matter whether I'm a scientist or a physicist or not. That's an appeal to authority fallacy. My point still stands.

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It can be interpreted that way. It's certainly not a GOOD idea, but I'd say it doesn't fall too far outside of normal use parameters. People jam 'em in their back pockets. People sit down with them still in their back pockets whether intentionally or not. So it is kind of a grey area. Not very grey but you get what I'm saying. There's at least some room for interpretation.
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No, I am not wrong. And you didn't just get the numbers wrong, you stated that the phones did not permanently bend at the initial force vectors. That is wrong. They did permanently bend. And there was nothing appealing to authority. Your first year philosophy is laughable. It's clear from your posts you have little-to-no experience in physics and science, things that are useful and effectively required to properly analyze this issue. In other words, you have a lack of experience and skill which is why you're making mistakes and attacking people personally.

Ad hominem attack! Ad hominem attack! I'm joking here, but it's something you would say.
 
Surf Monkey said:
Right. And by the same token if everyone doesn't take the word of some guy with a YouTube account as the gospel truth they're all "apologists."

People who live in glass houses...
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I believe the phrase is "people who live in aluminum houses shouldn't try to bend their bedroom" :D
 
TJ82 said:
There is no idea that sitting on a phone = bent phone. What are you talking about?

Are you making up arguments so that you can argue with yourself or something?

Explain.
Click to expand...

Yeah. There is that idea and people in this thread are arguing it. Sorry, didn't mean to give you the impression I was challenging you specifically on that point.

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pickaxe said:
I believe the phrase is "people who live in aluminum houses shouldn't try to bend their bedroom" :D
Click to expand...

Love it!
 
Surf Monkey said:
Pretty big if, considering the current lack of evidence indicating a rash of pocket-bent phones, yes?

----------
Click to expand...

the point was about the tests, they are to find any weak spots in the iPhone. The tests are limited by the imagination of man and the inflexibility of the machine. They are but one test method and as such limited proven by the monkey (man) with his superior powers of deduction and manual dexterity bending the iPhone after 2 minutes of play. I would guess apple now includes a monkey test from this day forward and then evaluate the results and calculate from both results (or they may just do away with the expensive gas guzzling machinery and simply use the monkey test as its far cheaper haha)
 
booksbooks said:
No, I am not wrong. And you didn't just get the numbers wrong, you stated that the phones did not permanently bend at the initial force vectors. That is wrong. They did permanently bend. And there was nothing appealing to authority. Your first year philosophy is laughable. It's clear from your posts you have little-to-no experience in physics and science, things that are useful and effectively required to properly analyze this issue. In other words, you have a lack of experience and skill which is why you're making mistakes and attacking people personally.

Ad hominem attack! Ad hominem attack! I'm joking here, but it's something you would say.
Click to expand...

I haven't attacked anyone personally. I've suggested on several occasions that you move on. And again, you continue to miss the points. Those being: 1) I find CR to be a more credible source than a guy with a YouTube account and 2) no matter how you care to frame it, your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's here. You don't have a corner on objectivity any more than I do.

And please stop making false accusations.

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Zxxv said:
the point was about the tests, they are to find any weak spots in the iPhone. The tests are limited by the imagination of man and the inflexibility of the machine. They are but one test method and as such limited proven by the monkey (man) with his superior powers of deduction and manual dexterity bending the iPhone after 2 minutes of play. I would guess apple now includes a monkey test from this day forward and then evaluate the results and calculate from both results (or they may just do away with the expensive gas guzzling machinery and simply use the monkey test as its far cheaper haha)
Click to expand...

And this explains the lack of pocket-bent phones...how?
 
Surf Monkey said:
I haven't attacked anyone personally. I've suggested on several occasions that you move on. And again, you continue to miss the points. Those being: 1) I find CR to be a more credible source than a guy with a YouTube account and 2) no matter how you care to frame it, your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's here. You don't have a corner on objectivity any more than I do.

And please stop making false accusations.
Click to expand...

You raise a red herring with your point about the CR being "more credible" like somehow that will distract away from what the empirical evidence is showing. That that alone will make "all this go away" and invalidate the information we now have. CR is subject to the same scrutiny as anyone else. Someone mentioned that they've been known to test products supplied to them by the manufacturer that aren't what the shipped products are.

And here it is: you're now appealing to authority... anyway, I'll let you off easy on this.

My point is not to cast any doubt on them just to show that doubt can be cast on them. The idea is to assume it's a level playing field. And there isn't just one person who posted the bend test on YouTube, there are now multiple videos, including one from Germany from a magazine, inter alia. And these are REPLICATING the results of the original. This is science and it's damning against these new iPhones.

Again, nobody knows how all this will play out in the real world but it's impossible at this point to ignore. And anyone who continues to label all these videos as fake, etc. is just being silly, wasting time, and living in denial.
 
Surf Monkey said:
And this explains the lack of pocket-bent phones...how?
Click to expand...

I was under the impression pocket bends was what initially revealed the weak point (they bent slightly) Then unbox therapy took the bend further (he had two iPhones with slight bends in) By doing so he discovered exactly where the weak spot is and now can create it by touch and feel on a brand new unbent iPhone. It seems so obvious apple themselves could invite him to Cupertino and watch him bend theirs in front of them so they can see exactly whats occurring but I don't think they need that as they can no doubt recreate it themselves using their hands instead of a complex machine.

you may have missed this
http://www.wired.com/2014/09/iphone-6-plus-review/
 
booksbooks said:
You raise a red herring with your point about the CR being "more credible" like somehow that will distract away from what the empirical evidence is showing. That that alone will make "all this go away" and invalidate the information we now have. CR is subject to the same scrutiny as anyone else. Someone mentioned that they've been known to test products supplied to them by the manufacturer that aren't what the shipped products are.

And here it is: you're now appealing to authority... anyway, I'll let you off easy on this.

My point is not to cast any doubt on them just to show that doubt can be cast on them. The idea is to assume it's a level playing field. And there isn't just one person who posted the bend test on YouTube, there are now multiple videos, including one from Germany from a magazine, inter alia. And these are REPLICATING the results of the original. This is science and it's damning against these new iPhones.

Again, nobody knows how all this will play out in the real world but it's impossible at this point to ignore. And anyone who continues to label all these videos as fake, etc. is just being silly, wasting time, and living in denial.
Click to expand...

Fantastic. I never labeled them fake. I said I found CR more credible than some guy on YouTube. I still do. Ultimately we get right back to where we started. A matter of opinion. Unless and until there's a flood of people reporting bent phones in normal use then there simply is no problem, no matter how many guys bend them on YouTube, no matter how many magazines bend them with test equipment and no matter how loudly people yell about supposedly poorly designed phones. As long as they're actually holding up in the real world (which is exactly what they seem to be doing so far) it's all sound and fury signifying nothing. Your OPINION on it is no more or less valid than mine. Your pile of data doesn't amount to squat if no one's phone is actually getting bent unless they're actively trying to bend it.
 
TJ82 said:
Ah, you've descended into saab territory. Telling people they don't know what they're talking about when you try to fob off some rubbish about an iPhone behaving as a solid steel alloy breaker bar. :D

Sitting on phones is normal, has been normal for over a decade.

Sitting on an iPhone is abuse, because it's not strong enough to withstand the sort of pressures other phones have endured since mobile phones became popular.
Click to expand...

You're really dense aren't you. If we are both saying the something then maybe the PROBLEM IS YOU.

And is bizarro world? We put phones to our heads and listen to them; not put them under our asses and sit on them.

Surf Monkey said:
It can be interpreted that way. It's certainly not a GOOD idea, but I'd say it doesn't fall too far outside of normal use parameters. People jam 'em in their back pockets. People sit down with them still in their back pockets whether intentionally or not. So it is kind of a grey area. Not very grey but you get what I'm saying. There's at least some room for interpretation.
Click to expand...


Putting your phone in your pocket with a bunch of keys or leaving it inside your car, under direct sunlight are also things that can happen in "normal usage" but that doesn't mean it's not abuse.

Regardless 70b of force is a LOT to put on an object WITHOUT any lever. The unbox therapy bendgate dude would be struggling to apply that much force if he wasn't gripping the iPhone itself for leverage. So sitting on your iPhone won't bend it.
 
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Surf Monkey said:
Fantastic. I never labeled them fake. I said I found CR more credible than some guy on YouTube. I still do. Ultimately we get right back to where we started. A matter of opinion. Unless and until there's a flood of people reporting bent phones in normal use then there simply is no problem, no matter how many guys bend them on YouTube, no matter how many magazines bend them with test equipment and no matter how loudly people yell about supposedly poorly designed phones. As long as they're actually holding up in the real world (which is exactly what they seem to be doing so far) it's all sound and fury signifying nothing. Your OPINION on it is no more or less valid than mine. Your pile of data doesn't amount to squat if no one's phone is actually getting bent unless they're actively trying to bend it.
Click to expand...

What we can agree on is we need to wait for more data to see how everything plays out in the real world. As for you, you're a walking contradiction. That isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Appeal to authority!
 
Zxxv said:
I was under the impression pocket bends was what initially revealed the weak point (they bent slightly) Then unbox therapy took the bend further (he had two iPhones with slight bends in) By doing so he discovered exactly where the weak spot is and now can create it by touch and feel on a brand new unbent iPhone. It seems so obvious apple themselves could invite him to Cupertino and watch him bend theirs in front of them so they can see exactly whats occurring but I don't think they need that as they can no doubt recreate it themselves using their hands instead of a complex machine.

you may have missed this
http://www.wired.com/2014/09/iphone-6-plus-review/
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of how the story played out. I was here. So, the question is still on the table. How many phones got bent, do you think? Thousands? Hundreds? Dozens?

I recall seeing reports of two pocket bent ones and one that was bent from the factory before the YouTube video came out. Two.
 
Surf Monkey said:
I'm well aware of how the story played out. I was here. So, the question is still on the table. How many phones got bent, do you think? Thousands? Hundreds? Dozens?

I recall seeing reports of two pocket bent ones and one that was bent from the factory before the YouTube video came out. Two.
Click to expand...

and the 7 Phill Schiller saw makes 9 :p:p:D

/s

I don't know how many there are. Im not a genius
 
Zxxv said:
the point was about the tests, they are to find any weak spots in the iPhone. The tests are limited by the imagination of man and the inflexibility of the machine. They are but one test method and as such limited proven by the monkey (man) with his superior powers of deduction and manual dexterity bending the iPhone after 2 minutes of play. I would guess apple now includes a monkey test from this day forward and then evaluate the results and calculate from both results (or they may just do away with the expensive gas guzzling machinery and simply use the monkey test as its far cheaper haha)
Click to expand...

Man can break a lot of things if we try; so I don't think that is a reasonable bar to hold devices up against.

As for the pocket bends, they could have been bent in the factory and unnoticed or maybe there was a manufacturing defect; yes the volume buttons are the weak point but that doesn't mean it will fail under normal usage.
 
Surf Monkey said:
I'm well aware of how the story played out. I was here. So, the question is still on the table. How many phones got bent, do you think? Thousands? Hundreds? Dozens?

I recall seeing reports of two pocket bent ones and one that was bent from the factory before the YouTube video came out. Two.
Click to expand...

the truth is we're well into the second week of sales with the phones having been released and sold in most of Europe and we're still to see any real uproar about phones bending miraculously in pockets...

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TJ82 said:
Sitting on phones is normal, has been normal for over a decade.
Click to expand...

hahahah

can this guy hear himself?? :rolleyes:
 
saab9573 said:
again you dont understand physics....

the loads the CR and this youtube guy are putting on the phones are point loads...or concentrated loads you can also call them.

a person sitting on a phone will never be able to recreate a point load.

the load of the body is firstly spread to the feet and then your bottom wich in turn is divide by 2 (2 cheeks)

even then you have a large area (your flesh) spreading your weight over the phone.

do you understand this right?

so unless you go with one finger and exert 70 pounds of force you wont bend the iphone....
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is that you never shift your weight when you sit. And that you always spread your weight out through soft tissue and never from bone->chair. OK... :rolleyes: :confused:
 
ToroidalZeus said:
Putting your phone in your pocket with a bunch of keys or leaving it inside your car, under direct sunlight are also things that can happen in "normal usage" but that doesn't mean it's not abuse.

Regardless 70b of force is a LOT to put on an object WITHOUT any lever. The unbox therapy bendgate dude wouldn't be struggle to apply that much force if he wasn't gripping the iPhone itself for leverage. So sitting on your iPhone won't bend it.
Click to expand...

Agree on all counts. The only thing I'd add is that Apple knows you're going to throw it in your bag with keys and leave it in your hot car, so while that may technically be abuse it's not like driving your car over it or running it through the washing machine. There are some shades of distinction here.

And for the record, I carry my Plus in my back pocket just like I did my 5. I'll take it out when I sit down if I remember or if I'm about to sit on a hard surface. Other than that I'm pretty casual about it. Not a bend in sight. Straight as the day it came out of the box.
 
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