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The death of WebOS
- Thread starter radiogoober
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I'm sad for HP that it came to this rather drastic (but arguably needed) step.
The iPad is a great device, yes other tablets are out there but the average consumer is going to stick with the known name eg Apple - they probably have an iPhone so the natural extension is the iPad.
In my experience - and that of other people i know they like the combo of the well designed hardware and the familiarity of iOS.
Don't call 'fanboi' on me - I sold my macs and am back on windows or Ubuntu at present, and haven't had an iPhone for years as i used Android phones, and tablets over the least few years (currently have Windows Phone 7 which is nice but lacking software)
The Google/Motorola merger does mean there is someone else now that could do the perfect combo of great hardware and great software though...perhaps that spooked HP?
The iPad is a great device, yes other tablets are out there but the average consumer is going to stick with the known name eg Apple - they probably have an iPhone so the natural extension is the iPad.
In my experience - and that of other people i know they like the combo of the well designed hardware and the familiarity of iOS.
Don't call 'fanboi' on me - I sold my macs and am back on windows or Ubuntu at present, and haven't had an iPhone for years as i used Android phones, and tablets over the least few years (currently have Windows Phone 7 which is nice but lacking software)
The Google/Motorola merger does mean there is someone else now that could do the perfect combo of great hardware and great software though...perhaps that spooked HP?
...several of my friends and coworkers have android devices so I went with an HTC Evo (while I like it as a phone and light gaming device, I don't use it as a music player like I do with my iPod Touch) and it came with a free 7" samsung tablet... my original iPad is still my go to device and I just tether from my Evo when I need a connection.
WebOS seemed pretty cool in the stores and I was hopeful it would be further along when my original iPad needed replacing but guess that's out the window now...
It seems like HP just gave up too quickly or didn't understand what they were getting into in the first place.
WebOS seemed pretty cool in the stores and I was hopeful it would be further along when my original iPad needed replacing but guess that's out the window now...
It seems like HP just gave up too quickly or didn't understand what they were getting into in the first place.
Probably more of the first and a bit of the second. Seeing as they only SOLD 25 000 out of the 270 000 that shipped, is quite sad for a company to see. Unfortunately, seeing as they thought the TouchPad could compete with the iPad, it obviously could not. Giving up in the business was mainly because they do not want to lose completely to Apple. The least they could do is what IBM or Motorola did. IBM gave away its PC business to Lenovo, while Motorola ended up in a split, which 50% of is owned by Google now (Motorola Mobility).
In the end, I think their consumer PCs are doing fine, which their Printer line should be sold with the PCs all together. As for webOS and TouchPad, it just could not work... Perhaps Samsung could use the Palm patents and webOS for their smartphones... (Bada seems like it isn't going to work out)...
Yep. HP makes a killing off their printer supply business. They sell their printers at cost or at a loss and make a huge profit off supplies.
They rig their print cartridges and electronically program these cartridges to expire and not work even though their is still ink in them. That's what I call profit margin. Make people spend more money on ink even though their is still ink left you.
This is some funny stuff. The TouchPad fanboys are still defending both the TP and HP, despite the fact the product was a completely epic failure.
Here's a quote from HP just three months ago:
Haha!
Here's another quote, directly from HP, that I think explains the point a lot of you are missing:
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2011/08/18/live-blog-h-p-on-pc-spinoff-oh-and-earnings-too/
There's two things to read there:
1. The TouchPad (obviously) didn't sell worth a damn
2. iPads are killing their PC sales business
Wow.
Here's a quote from HP just three months ago:
Haha!
Here's another quote, directly from HP, that I think explains the point a lot of you are missing:
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2011/08/18/live-blog-h-p-on-pc-spinoff-oh-and-earnings-too/
There's two things to read there:
1. The TouchPad (obviously) didn't sell worth a damn
2. iPads are killing their PC sales business
Wow.
Ugh. These are the absolute worst Apple fans. The people who think that buying an Apple product actually makes them part of the company and they get so delusional that they act as if Apple's successes are actually their own.
There's more to life than brand loyalty and on so many levels this is bad news. I could care less about HP and the money they've wasted, but what concerns me is that the very promising WebOS will go down in history as being mismanaged to death. It's sad that anyone can live so bound by a single company that they cant see how WebOS's good ideas will be sent into limbo (yet again) and that real people will be losing real jobs.
Actually, we are behind it... There are a lot of developers behind webOS and praise it for tech specifications. The problem is in marketing execution...
Example: when TouchPad launched, it did not have touchpad apps visible in their AppCatalog! It was not exposed and it took them quite few weeks to fix things...
I love all of your assumptions!
I truly hope you are joking. If your company is still putting resources into webOS, despite the fact that the only tablet using it barely sold, and despite the fact that the manufacturer has discontinued that only tablet, the your company truly needs a new CEO. Maybe you should start developing for the Atari 2600 or the TurboGrafix 16. I hear that's where all the money is at these days. My Sega CD needs some new games.
The only thing wrong with Android clones is that they aren't identical in usage and too much UI control was given to the user/licensor. To me, this makes Android the MySpace of phones/tablets because moving from device to device was just confusing and ugly while iOS kept everything very clean and obvious.
Thats why I'm wondering if google is kicking itself for buying Motorola this week rather than Palm. They cost the same but Palm has an even better patent portfolio and the concepts in the WebOS UI offers so much that could really clean up android and make it more appealing to both the general consumer and the high end tech geeks. It makes more sense than owning first party hardware like Motorola because it will only scare away the licensors that are keeping them in business.
Guess its time to watch eBay for the firesales.
Shame to see it end, was hoping it would do well but I guess HP was half-arsed about it. I'll be buying one if I see one cheap enough though
webOS devices are already dirt cheap on eBay. I've seen perfectly functioning Palm Pixis go for £30
As already noted, the decision to cut bait on the TouchPad is part of a broader strategy to get out of the consumer PC business. HP wants to be a stronger IBM competitor, not a commodity manufacturer of consumer electronics. To do that they need to shift their focus to much higher profit margin businesses, e.g. consulting and large systems integration. The TouchPad is simply an unneeded albatross around the neck of the business units they want to sell.
Like many businesses that go through management changes and corporate redirection, as HP has and is, the decisions of the old regime are especially vulnerable. And like most large businesses, the question of whether a particular product line is profitable is secondary to whether share prices rise or sink. HP's share prices have been declining as a result of investors' belief that the really big money is not in consumer sales but in business to business relationships.
The demise of the TouchPad is nothing more than collateral damage in a much larger shift of focus at HP.
Like many businesses that go through management changes and corporate redirection, as HP has and is, the decisions of the old regime are especially vulnerable. And like most large businesses, the question of whether a particular product line is profitable is secondary to whether share prices rise or sink. HP's share prices have been declining as a result of investors' belief that the really big money is not in consumer sales but in business to business relationships.
The demise of the TouchPad is nothing more than collateral damage in a much larger shift of focus at HP.
Sorry but I think you are completely wrong.
Look at Apple. Incredible stock price. Most valuable/profitable company in the US, possibly on earth. Their money comes primarily from consumer sales.
It's completely dishonest to say the failure of the TouchPad is " collateral damage." HP is out of the market because they simply don't have a product. And not only do they not have a tablet, they are losing PC sales to the iPad. Apple is sucking them dry.
Ask yourself this question: If the TouchPad had iPad sales numbers, do you think HP would still be getting out of the market?
Make no mistake. HP is dropping computer sales because they have been tanking mike crazy and they simply can't compete. No one looks at an HP product and says "ohhh that's nice! I want one!!"
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"They" didn't. That was the old regime. Leo Apotheker (coming from SAP, a major systems consulting/intergrator) took over in September, 2010, five months after HP purchased Palm. His mandate was to change the HP business focus and drive up share prices. Obviously what happened was that a very tough set of short-term performance goals were set for the TouchPad, quite possibly to assure that it would fail and justify exactly what happened yesterday.
Not to pick on you specifically, but I'm consistently amazed by the tendency to view companies as if they are individual people with particular personalities, beliefs, and memories. In fact, corporations are simply containers for a set of decision makers that shift from time to time. HP didn't "change its mind" about webOS. HP changed its "brain" when it brought in a new management team.
webOS devices are already dirt cheap on eBay. I've seen perfectly functioning Palm Pixis go for £30
yes, i'm watching a few touchpads on ebay atm and if they go cheap enough i'll pick one up just for curiosity. After that i dare say i'll grab a palm to go with it soon after.
The tablet market IS iPad. While there are other products, they can hardly be called competitors. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, and I will admit to being somewhat of a "fanboy" since I've always rooted for Apple as the underdog. However, now that Apple is #1 in the world, I feel a bit conflicted!
There are definitely aspects to Android and WebOS that are very compelling and better designed than iOS. However, from the consumer's standpoint, does it matter? It's all about the Apple, and here's why... Apple strikes an emotional connection with its customers. Does Microsoft, Dell or HP do that? Nope. An emotional connection puts you at "top of mind", and as long as you are top of mind you have an 80% chance of the consumer picking your product over a competitor's. That's the magic here. It's psychological.
<sigh> I didn't say that no company can make (enough) money with consumer electronics. Apple occupies a unique position for a number of reasons, one of the most important of which is that they aren't solely (or even principally) a computer company. Rather, they're a unique brand with a talent for making and selling products that appeal to non-technical customers.
The fact remains that HP doesn't see its future in the commodity price-driven PC market, iPad or not. They'd rather compete with IBM for huge profits among a few customers than slim profits among millions of customers. It's simply a different business model. To say that the iPad is "sucking dry" HP's PC sales is simply ridiculous. PC sales dwarf tablet sales and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
As for asking whether HP would have killed the Touchpad if it had the sales of the iPad. I can only say that's a silly question. HP has also shed much of its real estate. Would they have done so if they'd discovered gold on those properties?
Apart from your rampant fanboyism with regard to Apple products, you seem to be abysmally ignorant about the way business works. Maybe a course in economics in high school will help.
That's the saddest thing about MR imo. I don't have problem with people being Apple fanboys, it's those that celebrate the competitors' demise that disgust me. How ignorant can they be?
Absolutely ridiculous rhetoric and spin.
HP spent over a billion to acquire webOS. They spent god knows how much on designing the TouchPad and it was a complete flop. You. Think they would have done all this if their long term plans were to stop making PCs and tablets? Really?
Oh, and have a read: http://www.displaysearch.com/cps/rd...pc_market_share_position_from_hp_in_q2_11.asp
(Thank you for being so wrong and instead of admitting it having to attack me verbally)
Perhaps you should check facts. The management of HP that purchased Palm was replaced by the current management in September 2010, five months after the purchase of Palm. The new CEO from SAP is a system integrator/consultancy chief, not a PC maker.
The firm's "long term plans" changed significantly with the new CEO.
But don't feel bad, your misinformation and naivety is not unusual among those who think economics and business can be understood as large versions of lemonade stands.
Just read that WebOS was installed as an app onto an iPad 2 for testing purposes by HP engineers and it ran twice as fast as an app on the iPad than as a native OS on the Touchpad. Went as far as to state that HP engineers could only develop so far before they decreased performance to such a point that they had to stop. Apparently Touchpad was in serious trouble long before it ever went into full production.
Hey HP, let WebOS code out into the wild for free. I'm sure Comex and the Dev team could come up with a tweak to allow for a dual boot so we could play with WebOS on our iPads!
Hey HP, let WebOS code out into the wild for free. I'm sure Comex and the Dev team could come up with a tweak to allow for a dual boot so we could play with WebOS on our iPads!
Uh, taking 260,000 tablets back and selling them at $200 (even with no patches, or support), does not benefit HP at all. The sales costs alone would bleed more money from the company. You'll get your wish though to burn your money, as I suspect the best course for HP is to sell the tablets by the palette to a discount retailer, like Big Lots, or someone online.