The death of WebOS

[jsh1120]

Uh, taking 260,000 tablets back and selling them at $200 (even with no patches, or support), does not benefit HP at all. The sales costs alone would bleed more money from the company. You'll get your wish though to burn your money, as I suspect the best course for HP is to sell the tablets by the palette to a discount retailer, like Big Lots, or someone online.

You're right. The decision to cut bait rather than to try to sell through the inventory also undoubtedly involved the cost of long-term support for those who purchased the TouchPad. Trying to sell a device with no support is hardly a way for a firm like HP to win friends.

Reminds me of an old I Love Lucy episode in which Lucy and Ethel buy a dress shop and find they can only sell the dresses at less than their cost. Lucy says that's OK. They'll take a loss on each dress but they'll make it up in volume.

 

[GameAmour.com]

Rumors say webOS staff is jumping the ship... webOS R.I.P.

 

[kdarling]

Think about that for a second. HP wouldn't get anything back, unless you mean sell the TouchPad as-is with no support, warranty or updates. If that's what you mean, then why on earth would you spend $200 on it?

People buy old iPhones, iPods and every sort of used gizmo all the time without warranty or updates.

The only difference would be that this device would be brand new!

 

[Madmic23]

Touchpad now $99

I was just at the Source, and they are selling off the touchpad for $99 for the 16gb and $149 for the 32gb. A guy in there had just paid $400 for one at Staples yesterday, and said he was taking it back tomorrow and buying two of these today. He bought two Touchpads for half of the regular price!

I considered picking one up myself just so I'd have two tablets (iPad and Touchpad) but then I tried it out in the store and found the UI to be horrendously slow. I'm not even sure if it's worth it for $99, since support is about to evaporate for the platform.

At least you could use it as an ereader and web browser I suppose.

 

[madat42]

People buy old iPhones, iPods and every sort of used gizmo all the time without warranty or updates.

The only difference would be that this device would be brand new!

Yes, those old iPhones and iPods are great because they survived on the market long enough for Apple to iron out major bugs and update them with new features for a more trouble-free experience. TouchPad was on the market for a little over a month, with one patch. I see a huge difference. I'd rather take a used iPod Touch that will be upgradeable to iOS 5 next month, than a still-wrapped TouchPad whose web browser probably won't be updated, and whose problems will be magnified when more HTML5 sites become popular. Good luck.

 

[Yamcha]

Disappointing, I thought WebOS was great, sure it had its downfalls but if they made some improvements it would've been perfect.. Still I can't say they would have high sales, mainly because the lack of applications and games..

Anyway whats awesome is that you can get a Touchpad for $99 and I have to say at that price its an amazing product.. I would've gotten one if I didn't have an iPad..

 

[yomibro]

For $99 I would say it is a good "netbook" to give out to my nephews as presents, cheaper then an iPad and if they break it then it's not a really big loss. Question is what apps can they download aside from what's already installed on it by default?

 

[Karpfish]

Absolutely getting one for $99 tomorrow.

 

[Mac.World]

Wow, apparently I had the right instincts. Who was calling me foolish just a couple of posts back?

 

[radiogoober]

Wow, apparently I had the right instincts. Who was calling me foolish just a couple of posts back?

If your instincts are to invest money into a dead tablet with a dead OS and absolutely zero developer support, then yes, that is foolish.

 

[Mac.World]

If your instincts are to invest money into a dead tablet with a dead OS and absolutely zero developer support, then yes, that is foolish.

And reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your forte.

 

[neutrino23]

...snip...

There is no tablet market. There is only iPad.

For the moment this is correct. The other tablet makers haven't figured out this business yet. It is not the same as the smart phone business. In the future there may be strong competitors but they haven't arrived yet.

Apple had ten or more years to develop the DNA that goes into the iPad. The competitors are mostly starting from scratch. They misjudged the nature of the market and they didn't have all the "collateral" needed to produce and sell tablets.

It's not like someone can just build a good tablet and have the world beat a path to their door. Think of all that goes into the iPad product.

Mr. Ives and company invested in getting the design right.

The engineers spent time getting the hardware and software right, especially the tactile operation and battery life.

The supply chain was setup to produce these in huge volume and to consume so much product that competitors would struggle to get parts.

Over three hundred Apple stores exist to let people come in and handle the device and try it out and purchase it and get free support.

The sales and marketing team promoted the product not just with ads but with all sorts of product placement, article placement, loaners to reviewers and what not to get mindshare. Two weeks after the iPad came out I saw two young girls about 6 and 9 talking. The younger girl pointed to the older girl's purse and asked "Is that your iPad?". She replied "No, my iPad is at home."

Amazing, a totally new product is out for two weeks and some to kids it seems as natural as air.

Competitors are not going to break into this business by making a cheap knock off and dropping off a few hundred at Fry's. Good luck with that.

 

[andrewlgm]

Well it seems as though we can consider the HP TouchPad dead. WebOS is dead.

http://gizmodo.com/5831594/best-buy-has-200k-unsold-touchpads-wants-hp-to-take-them-back

They literally can't give thes tablets away. Even with huge discounts. That is both hilarious and pathetic.

There is no tablet market. There is only iPad.

you're sad. the more competition the better.

----------

Absolutely getting one for $99 tomorrow.

I've been trying to grab one for my godson and one for myself, but they appear to have sold out everywhere, or have not yet had their prices slashed. HP, bestbuy.ca, etc. $99 is pretty awesome in my view.

 

[radiogoober]

you're sad. the more competition the better.

What competition? I haven't seen any competition for the iPad.

neutrino23's post was excellent. He's absolutely right. Look at how smart Apple was in bringing the iPad to the market. The way they did it, literally no company on Earth can compete. These other tech companies think they can just throw a half-baked OS into a heavy piece of plastic, price it around the same as an iPad, and expect stellar sales. That just isn't going to happen.

Sure. I'd love to see some real competition for the iPad. But it sure doesn't exist now. And there is nothing looming on the horizon either.

 

[dccorona]

Sorry but I think you are completely wrong.

Look at Apple. Incredible stock price. Most valuable/profitable company in the US, possibly on earth. Their money comes primarily from consumer sales.

It's completely dishonest to say the failure of the TouchPad is " collateral damage." HP is out of the market because they simply don't have a product. And not only do they not have a tablet, they are losing PC sales to the iPad. Apple is sucking them dry.

Ask yourself this question: If the TouchPad had iPad sales numbers, do you think HP would still be getting out of the market?

Make no mistake. HP is dropping computer sales because they have been tanking mike crazy and they simply can't compete. No one looks at an HP product and says "ohhh that's nice! I want one!!"

actually, jsh1120 is absolutely correct. Look at the operating profit margin of any PC maker...they all hover around 7% or so when things are good. Apple has managed to keep themselves at 30% because they positioned themselves very well as a niche, luxury product, and they vertically integrated their business (no software licensing...they design hardware and software).

With the market as it is now, no company other than Apple could pull that off. And the PC business is one with very low margins. Manufacturers make very little off PC sales, and retailers make essentially none.

So yes, HP is absolutely dropping PC sales because they want to transition into a direct IBM competitor, where they will see higher margins. Wether the WebOS drop is related to this decision or not, who knows. The touchpad was certainly performing poorly enough to be dropped (though not because it had a poor os...it was poorly executed, and in todays tablet market, if its not an iPad or has the name android somewhere in its marketing, consumers don't care), but dropping it is also in line with HPs other actions, so it could really be either.

WebOS was and is great, smartly designed software...if you think otherwise then I'm afraid something may be clouding your judgement. However, with respect to the touchpad, it was rushed and half-baked, that is true.

I think HP selling the pads for $100 is a good move...get rid of all their stock, get touch pads in the hands of as many people as possible, so that devs will still have a market to make apps for, and there is more incentive to sell the platform to someone else, as they'll already have a customer base. Its better for their business than letting them sit, thats for sure.

 

[radiogoober]

Oh Jsh1010101,

http://gizmodo.com/5832972/key-hp-executives-had-no-idea-what-was-about-to-happen-with-webos

Key HP Executives Had No Idea What Was About to Happen with WebOS

At what point do you stop fanboying HP and admit this was not their plan all along?

 

[jsh1120]

Oh Jsh1010101,

http://gizmodo.com/5832972/key-hp-executives-had-no-idea-what-was-about-to-happen-with-webos



At what point do you stop fanboying HP and admit this was not their plan all along?

When you learn to read, we can talk.

 

[cshearer]

And I thought I was a fanboy when I gathered all of the boxes from my Apple products for organized storage, and noticed their vast quantity. This level of devotion is borderline delusional, and I wager that in your mind, whether you like it or not, you have an emotional attachment to this company. It's a bit scary, and I recommend psychotherapy.

As per the topic of the thread, as many have stated, competition is the key to economic progress and innovation. Your blind devotion to Apple blocks out any ideas tthalwatsome go against Apple. As funky as it is, I think the Grid 10 does have a bit of a shot at this market. I can think of many people I know who would probably buy it, though I myself enjoy my iPad.

Just cool off, you're way too into Apple. When you're vying to be their toalitarian-esque slogan writer "There is no market, there is only iPad", that seems to be the beginnings of mania.

 

[radiogoober]

Just cool off, you're way too into Apple. When you're vying to be their toalitarian-esque slogan writer "There is no market, there is only iPad", that seems to be the beginnings of mania.

There *isn't* a tablet market. Blackberry's tablet = just about dead. TouchPad - dead. Android = barely on the radar. Tell me, what other tablets are out there actually competing with the iPad?

Pretty funny stuff - you guys love to just insult people, call them "blind fanboys", or whatever, and yet you can never make a single point. All you do is insult, but you can't make a point

 

[cshearer]

There *isn't* a tablet market. Blackberry's tablet = just about dead. TouchPad - dead. Android = barely on the radar. Tell me, what other tablets are out there actually competing with the iPad?

Pretty funny stuff - you guys love to just insult people, call them "blind fanboys", or whatever, and yet you can never make a single point. All you do is insult, but you can't make a point

And this post served to drive my point forward. In many respects I agreed with you, in that other tablets are not doing so well, and if you had read my whole post you would have seen that. The fact is, even though the other tablets aren't faring as well, that is still a market. This is a market in which Apple is currently winning. This is by definition a specific market, which is a fact, whether you like it or not. I implore you to read a book, or at the very least download the Bloomberg app. You clearly possess that ability.

When you rely solely on your love for Apple, and disregard any facts thrown your way (of which they have been), that is immature and irresponsible. Will you at least agree that competition is good? Do you have that capacity?

 

[radiogoober]

And this post served to drive my point forward. In many respects I agreed with you, in that other tablets are not doing so well, and if you had read my whole post you would have seen that. The fact is, even though the other tablets aren't faring as well, that is still a market. This is a market in which Apple is currently winning. This is by definition a specific market, which is a fact, whether you like it or not. I implore you to read a book, or at the very least download the Bloomberg app. You clearly possess that ability.

When you rely solely on your love for Apple, and disregard any facts thrown your way (of which they have been), that is immature and irresponsible. Will you at least agree that competition is good? Do you have that capacity?

In your long winded, completely condescending post, you failed to point out a single tablet that is actually competing with the iPad in the tablet market.

I'll go ahead and quote myself again:

Pretty funny stuff - you guys love to just insult people, call them "blind fanboys", or whatever, and yet you can never make a single point. All you do is insult, but you can't make a point

 

[Carouser]

As per the topic of the thread, as many have stated, competition is the key to economic progress and innovation. Your blind devotion to Apple blocks out any ideas tthalwatsome go against Apple. As funky as it is, I think the Grid 10 does have a bit of a shot at this market. I can think of many people I know who would probably buy it, though I myself enjoy my iPad.

Just cool off, you're way too into Apple. When you're vying to be their toalitarian-esque slogan writer "There is no market, there is only iPad", that seems to be the beginnings of mania.

If competition drives innovation, then there isn't any competition for Apple. No tablet competition, anyway. The only competition is from anything else people can spend their $500 on.

The Grid 10 might sell a few units but not millions and it will certainly not define the category. Best Buy and Future Shop have categorized this segment as 'iPad and Tablets' for a while now. Do you think the Grid 10 will do well enough to change that to 'Grid 10 and Tablets' or even just 'Tablets'?

'There is no market, there is only iPad' sounds like a pretty accurate description of the current state of affairs. If I had to put a significant investment into a tablet maket I don't think the supposed competition would be a safe bet for that money.

I haven't said whether this is good or bad but I won't be surprised if I get called a fanboy. It's pretty telling when a poster has to pathologize someone they disagree with and charge them with mental illness. Bravo.

Also, the 'competition is always good, if you don't laud failed products for incentivizing Apple then you are a fanboy' schtick isn't an argument, it's just unqualified generalized nonsense.

EDIT: If we have to grant that there's a market and competition so long as there is at least one non-iPad unit for sale then it's silly to discuss whether there is a market and competition or not. Okay, according to this generously expansive definition, there is a market and competition. Apple has this terrified market on lock and the competition is failing time and time again. But there's still that magical competition driving us ever forward!

 

[cshearer]

In your long winded, completely condescending post, you failed to point out a single tablet that is actually competing with the iPad in the tablet market.

I'll go ahead and quote myself again:

I really am starting to smell a troll. This is the third time I've stated tht I agree they're barely competing, yet the fact is that they are. There are people who are buying the Xoom, Galaxy Tab, soon to be Grid 10, and all of those others which I don't care to look up.

The need for specific examples is not necessary here, because the argument doesn't demand that. The fact of the matter is, as long as there are even a handful of people purchasing a tablet at least vaguely similar to the iPad, and buying it instead of the iPad, this is competition. So what if it's not that powerful of a competition? The fact that you blatantly deny despite it being a fact is that there is a tablet market. I can't help but be a bit condescending because thus far you have failed to demonstrate even an elementary understanding of economics.

 

[Carouser]

The need for specific examples is not necessary here, because the argument doesn't demand that. The fact of the matter is, as long as there are even a handful of people purchasing a tablet at least vaguely similar to the iPad, and buying it instead of the iPad, this is competition. So what if it's not that powerful of a competition? The fact that you blatantly deny despite it being a fact is that there is a tablet market. I can't help but be a bit condescending because thus far you have failed to demonstrate even an elementary understanding of economics.

I am compelled to agree with this technical point (which has no consequence and fails to address the substance of the discussion, focusing instead on pedantry).

EDIT: According to this definition, if I sell an electric Etch-A-Sketch as a tablet then there is competition - yet it will have zero effect on Apple's behavior. I submit other tablets are roughly as significant, in the sense that they are technically 'competition' yet will bring none of the good effects of competition to bear on other agents in the market.

 

[radiogoober]

I really am starting to smell a troll. This is the third time I've stated tht I agree they're barely competing, yet the fact is that they are. There are people who are buying the Xoom, Galaxy Tab, soon to be Grid 10, and all of those others which I don't care to look up.

The need for specific examples is not necessary here, because the argument doesn't demand that. The fact of the matter is, as long as there are even a handful of people purchasing a tablet at least vaguely similar to the iPad, and buying it instead of the iPad, this is competition. So what if it's not that powerful of a competition? The fact that you blatantly deny despite it being a fact is that there is a tablet market. I can't help but be a bit condescending because thus far you have failed to demonstrate even an elementary understanding of economics.

More insults, thank you.

I love that people on the internet are so difficult that they will bend and construe every single sentence just to try to shoe horn their opinion in, as if anyone really cares what you think. You're dying to make it seem like there really is competition. There's not. Yes, obviously people buy the lesser tablets, but in terms of the market, there's not a tablet market. It's either you have an iPad, or you don't. All the crappy little "off brands" are just competing for crumbs, while Apple has the entire pie.

Saying the Xoom is competing with the iPad is is like saying the fat girl in a foot race is competing for a world record time. They aren't even in the same category.

(P.S. I love that you think that your brilliant realization of "yes, a small number of people do buy tablets other than the iPad" demonstrates some profound understanding of economics.)