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The Mac Pro enjoys no such dominance. It is around 4-8% of the workstation market. Single digits. You have a single digit product that is shrinking over a multiple year period ......... unless that is your only product it is probably going on the chopping block.

By your logic, the entire Mac line should be cut because it hovers around the same marketshare.

However, given that the Mac line continues to be wonderfully profitable, and so far taking different customers than the iPad, that's not likely.

Not really. What is being measured is revenue growth. If they were not contributing to revenue growth that dropping them will have zero impact.
In fact, revenue growth could increase if resources are shifted from a zero growth project to another one with more viable growth potential.

According to the conference call the other day, the Mac had around %25 growth year over year. Sounds like revenue growth to me.

Apple has billions in cash. They don't deparately need every possible customers.

They also don't desperately need to cut the low overhead and easily profitable Mac Pro for this same reason.

Consumers are more demanding. They want new, shiny case designs. They want extreme price competitiveness.

The Mac Pro's biggest strength is that Apple doesn't really need to do much with it to keep it going. Sure, I think we'd all like to see a new case design. But no one here is threatening to abandon the Mac Pro or freaking out that there hasn't been a case redesign in the last 8 years, not like the 4S debacle. If Apple needed to spend millions on R&D to keep the Mac Pro competitive, I'd be worried about it's future. But they don't.

To Apple, the Mac Pro is the sort of girl who's not flashy, but dependable. Apple and the Mac Pro don't have a torrid, passionate affair, but it's a reliable, steady relationship.
 
To Apple, the Mac Pro is the sort of girl who's not flashy, but dependable. Apple and the Mac Pro don't have a torrid, passionate affair, but it's a reliable, steady relationship.

Excellent post with very valid points. A good read :)
 
If pressure from share-holders doesnt ruin it all. My biggest fear in so many good companies is that the share-holders call ALL the shots and look only at profits no matter what, and kill that elite attitude in order to sell to the masses. Someone else commented about being on the "inside" with the pro products, being on the bleeding edge, or having products that the average Joe doesn't have. Here's a good couple lines on Steve from a Reuters article the day he died.

"What Jobs understood was that there was and is room in the computer market for a prettier or marginally better product—packed tightly in a very fashionable box—that could be sold at a premium price if he marketed them as “Veblen goods,” luxury products that convey status upon their purchasers."

Maybe that's what we all really like about our Apple gear.
 
If pressure from share-holders doesnt ruin it all. My biggest fear in so many good companies is that the share-holders call ALL the shots and look only at profits no matter what, and kill that elite attitude in order to sell to the masses. Someone else commented about being on the "inside" with the pro products, being on the bleeding edge, or having products that the average Joe doesn't have. Here's a good couple lines on Steve from a Reuters article the day he died.

"What Jobs understood was that there was and is room in the computer market for a prettier or marginally better product—packed tightly in a very fashionable box—that could be sold at a premium price if he marketed them as “Veblen goods,” luxury products that convey status upon their purchasers."

Maybe that's what we all really like about our Apple gear.
Basically, Apple = Armani.

This is slightly out of place on the Mac Pro will live forever/die tomorrow thread, since it pertains much more to all the iCrap.

The Mac Pro 2006-2010 was a series of workstation computers manufactured by Apple, Inc., and used by professionals to, ya know, accomplish things and do their work. Unfortunately they cost too much money for all but the wealthiest status-conscious hipsters to ever purchase, and were discontinued in early 2012 when sales dropped to 1000 units shipped in the last Q.

It was replaced in 2012 by the xMac iPro featuring CiC(R) (Cores in Cloud! Available in, NYC, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and London. Available elsewhere whenever people upgrade their bandwidth).

"Dude, I have 100lbs of Heavy Metal on my desk! AND, a coffee-table made out of old NeXTdimension cubes!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ecXITshe8
 
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It was replaced in 2012 by the xMac iPro featuring CiC(R) (Cores in Cloud! Available in, NYC, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and London. Available elsewhere whenever people upgrade their bandwidth).

upload -> convert -> download

No doubt there will be DRM/watermark enforcement. And that will be the last straw for me, until Microsoft starts doing the same thing.
 
By your logic, the entire Mac line should be cut because it hovers around the same marketshare.

That is your misstating what I said. It is the shrinking that is the primary problem. Not the single digits. The single digits is only indicative that it is not a good strategy to put up with the shrinkage over an extended period of time.

If the Mac Pro's percentage of its target market had a 5 year track of the percentages 5, 4.6, 4.2, 4.0, 3.9 that is not a good long term investment of the R&D dollars. Especially if there is another product with the opposite growth track (was 3.9, 4.0 , 4.2 , 4.6 , 5.0 ). If you can fund one of those which one do you fund ? Which is most likely a "great product" in the eyes of the target customers?

Likewise, flat single digits where the overall market is growing at 8% is also good. Again the growth is the central factor. The single digits are not.

Shrinking share in a growth market means the product is not finding customers.

In contrast, the iPod has a much bigger cushion. It can follow a percentage track of 90, 85, 80, 75 , 70 because that is still in the high double digits. All of their competitors combine don't even sell half the amount. The competition is so bad there is no reason to walk away even if the overall market is shrinking. That is a good candidate for a cash cow. Minimal R&D to keep pulling out money. However, once that percentage gets down into the 20-30 and still sinking at 5% per year it would be a candidate to get axed. At 15 and stinking at 5% per year even more so.


However, given that the Mac line continues to be wonderfully profitable,

The entire Mac line is not the issue. It is the Mac Pro. Putting to the whole line up is just misdirection.



According to the conference call the other day, the Mac had around %25 growth year over year. Sounds like revenue growth to me.

For the whole line up. That kind of growth can be either be good or bad news for the Mac Pro. If the Mac Pro's cohorts are all showing double digit growth and the Mac Pro is growing at 3% ( or flat or negative ), then it is in trouble (or, if negative, a "dead product walking" ) .

I would be extremely surprised if the Mac Pro is growing at anywhere near double digit rates. That puts the Mac Pro at risk. There is probably a bit of a "get out of jail" free card with the longer than usual Xeon upgrade cycle. So flat, or a slight dip, wouldn't necessarily mean pulling the plug.

However, just because there are other Mac products doesn't mean there "has to be" a Mac Pro. The Mac Pro can't let the other product carry the weight. That is one of Apple's strengths in that the individuals products for sale all carry largely their own weight. There is no loss leader than needs some other product to cover for it.



They also don't desperately need to cut the low overhead and easily profitable Mac Pro for this same reason.

Again with the misdirection. Apple does desperately need growth to support the inflated stock price. If the Mac Pro isn't supporting that growth then it puts the stock price at risk.

Having the money means that Apple can afford to take risks to find new product that will support the growth. It does mean they can lean on that money to support a product that can't carry its weight.





Consumers are more demanding. ...
.... that Apple doesn't really need to do much with it to keep it going.

Pick a side. The Mac Pro is in a competitive market. "Not doing much" will only shrink the share over time.


But no one here is threatening to abandon the Mac Pro or freaking out that there hasn't been a case redesign in the last 8 years,

Again with the misdirection. There numerous comments here about going WinPC to get a mini-tower ( because mini tower is 'good enough'). The case? Mac Pro users primarily buy a Mac Pro because it has a nice case? Please, you can't be serious.

If Apple needed to spend millions on R&D to keep the Mac Pro competitive, I'd be worried about it's future. But they don't.

Notice how none of the other Mac product forums have threads about possible ways Apple can implement Thunderbolt on their product?

The Mac Pro probably needs to absorb some subset of features from the XServe to boost its sales.


You think the competitor is going to "mail in" the R&D spend on their products?


To Apple, the Mac Pro is the sort of girl who's not flashy, but dependable. Apple and the Mac Pro don't have a torrid, passionate affair, but it's a reliable, steady relationship.

Flashiness is immaterial. Nor is Apple trying to get its freak on with the Mac Pro. Nor are customers buying a "Girlfriend Experience" when they buy a Mac Pro. It is 'votes' ( customers buying the product) that count. If it gets votes, it will continue. If it doesn't get votes then it won't.
 
That's my point entirely. These are the things you'd see a company engaged in the pro market doing, and Apple isn't doing them. Apple keeps selling these machines with nothing more than a speed bump, and they're still getting bought. There hasn't been a refresh in over 5 business quarters, and they still find folks ordering them. Why outlay the kind of investment a redesign would require? Just keep selling warmed over pro machines.

If the demand drops below an acceptable level, the decision has to be made whether they need the market enough to do the R&D. At this point, with record Mac sales in spite of the pro business, it doesn't look like they do.

Perhaps I misread the tone slightly then. I may be in the minority but I don't really care for the imac in spite of it being reasonably fast at this point because it still has a number of problems (heat with heavy use, screen aging issues, is the SSD port user serviceable because I know the main sata drive can no longer be swapped out due to the thermal sensor design).
 
Flashiness is immaterial. Nor is Apple trying to get its freak on with the Mac Pro. Nor are customers buying a "Girlfriend Experience" when they buy a Mac Pro. It is 'votes' ( customers buying the product) that count. If it gets votes, it will continue. If it doesn't get votes then it won't.
Flashiness is immaterial? Were you talking about Linux or Windows maybe? Style is half of what make Apple what it is. The gf poster needs to maybe get out more often or something but style definitely matters and sells.
 
That is your misstating what I said. It is the shrinking that is the primary problem. Not the single digits. The single digits is only indicative that it is not a good strategy to put up with the shrinkage over an extended period of time.

Shrinking? Again, the Mac market isn't shrinking. And even if that's mostly powered by the Macbook Pro, I'd say what's good for the Macbook Pro is good for the Mac Pro. The more Macbook Pros people buy, the more people are likely to buy Mac Pros.

If the Mac Pro's percentage of its target market had a 5 year track of the percentages 5, 4.6, 4.2, 4.0, 3.9 that is not a good long term investment of the R&D dollars. Especially if there is another product with the opposite growth track (was 3.9, 4.0 , 4.2 , 4.6 , 5.0 ). If you can fund one of those which one do you fund ? Which is most likely a "great product" in the eyes of the target customers?

Well, we don't know the Mac Pro's individual growth, but I like I said, this would be more of a concern if the Mac Pro had a large R&D budget, but it doesn't.

Don't get me wrong, eventually, some day years from now, the Mac Pro will go away. But the R&D budget is so low on the Mac Pro I don't see it being a concern for Apple.

Shrinking share in a growth market means the product is not finding customers.

There isn't any evidence that I've seen that the Mac Pro is encountering a significant sales slide. No one here knows the exact numbers, but this whole "should I buy a laptop or a desktop" discussion has been going on since 1999 when Apple pushed the Pismo G3 Powerbooks as a Final Cut workstation.

The entire Mac line is not the issue. It is the Mac Pro. Putting to the whole line up is just misdirection.

No, it's not. As the Mac gains more acceptance in the market, so does the Mac Pro.

For the whole line up. That kind of growth can be either be good or bad news for the Mac Pro. If the Mac Pro's cohorts are all showing double digit growth and the Mac Pro is growing at 3% ( or flat or negative ), then it is in trouble (or, if negative, a "dead product walking" ) .

Mac Pro cohorts with secret market share numbers? Is there a secret Mac Pro cabal somewhere I don't know about?

I would be extremely surprised if the Mac Pro is growing at anywhere near double digit rates. That puts the Mac Pro at risk. There is probably a bit of a "get out of jail" free card with the longer than usual Xeon upgrade cycle. So flat, or a slight dip, wouldn't necessarily mean pulling the plug.

Does it matter? If it only grew 0.1% a year, Apple would still have no reason to cut it.

Again with the misdirection. Apple does desperately need growth to support the inflated stock price. If the Mac Pro isn't supporting that growth then it puts the stock price at risk.

Having the money means that Apple can afford to take risks to find new product that will support the growth. It does mean they can lean on that money to support a product that can't carry its weight.

Apple also doesn't need to cut the Mac Pro to continue growing. As long as the Mac Pro continues to generate revenue, it helps Apple grow.

I really don't get this point. How exactly is the Mac Pro holding Apple down?

Pick a side. The Mac Pro is in a competitive market. "Not doing much" will only shrink the share over time.

Sure, the workstation is kind of competitive, but nowhere near as competitive as say, the smartphone market. Like I said, all Apple has to do is throw in a new processor and GPU every so often, and they stay competitive.

Again with the misdirection. There numerous comments here about going WinPC to get a mini-tower ( because mini tower is 'good enough'). The case? Mac Pro users primarily buy a Mac Pro because it has a nice case? Please, you can't be serious.

And this same discussion has been going on for the last 10 years ever since Apple started advertising the Powerbook G3 as a Final Cut workstation, and people asking about buying PC's instead of Mac towers? Please. Don't make me start thread linking to the beginning of last decade.

Notice how none of the other Mac product forums have threads about possible ways Apple can implement Thunderbolt on their product?

The Mac Pro probably needs to absorb some subset of features from the XServe to boost its sales.


You think the competitor is going to "mail in" the R&D spend on their products?

What competitors are spending large amounts of R&D on workstations? I don't see Dell pouring money into R&D on workstations. Neither is HP. Because they play the same game as Apple. Workstations aren't complicated, and we as customers aren't hard to please. Just throw us new processors and GPUs, and we'll be happy.

Flashiness is immaterial. Nor is Apple trying to get its freak on with the Mac Pro. Nor are customers buying a "Girlfriend Experience" when they buy a Mac Pro. It is 'votes' ( customers buying the product) that count. If it gets votes, it will continue. If it doesn't get votes then it won't.

Exactly my point. Flashiness is immaterial. The reason other products are so hard to maintain are that Apple has to maintain their flashiness. The Mac Pro doesn't have the same requirement.
 
The Mac computers market is slowly increasing and not just due to the iPhone & iPad, iPod sales. The MacBook Pros have been doing quite well on its own at 90% of the $1000.00 and over market. Now with the MacBook Airs into a few generations will probably keep it that way for quite a while.

This all puts more exposure on the Mac Pro's with people wanting to integrate all their software and devices together along with needing development of third party software I just doing see the Mac Pro going away anytime soon.

Even if someone were forced to stick with or prefer Windows OS, people are even wiping Mac OSX and installing windows on MacBook Pros making better windows machines. I'm hearing a larger group of users doing this.

Can't see why the Mac Pro can do the same thing, running windows if the users don't have the choice in the matter as far as supporting their have to have windows software.
 
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That is your misstating what I said. It is the shrinking that is the primary problem. Not the single digits. The single digits is only indicative that it is not a good strategy to put up with the shrinkage over an extended period of time.

If the Mac Pro's percentage of its target market had a 5 year track of the percentages 5, 4.6, 4.2, 4.0, 3.9 that is not a good long term investment of the R&D dollars. Especially if there is another product with the opposite growth track (was 3.9, 4.0 , 4.2 , 4.6 , 5.0 ). If you can fund one of those which one do you fund ? Which is most likely a "great product" in the eyes of the target customers?

Likewise, flat single digits where the overall market is growing at 8% is also good. Again the growth is the central factor. The single digits are not.

But is the workstation market actually shrinking? And is Apple's share of the market shrinking? We should also be careful to look at a long enough time peroid due to the relative release dates of both chips from Intel and computers from Apple. It seems entirely possible that it might look like workstation marekts are shrinking over the last year because people are waiting for Sandy Xeons. Similarly, since Apple's business model is to stick to the same price through the entire life of a refresh, while other manufacture's do not, then that will likely push some purchases to non-Apple computers later in the cycle. This effect would be particularly magnified when the current Mac Pro is now about 5 quaters old and will probably make it to 7-8 quarters old.

Anyway, I spent a few minutes searching what I could, and I haven't found a ton on how much the workstation market is actually changing.
 
I hate the name "Mac Pro". Then .. what exactly is the purpose?

Practically every Mac user assumes that Mac Pros are meant for running Final Cut Pro and NOTHING ELSE! What if you like to shove as many hard drives or expansion devices in your tower as you wish, without having a mess of cables sprawled out on your table? Or the ability to swap/RAID your storage in a snap.

Or the ability to purchase however many, and whatever kind of monitor you wish to use with it?

They are fantastic machines, albeit I REALLY wish they'd make a $1600 model using i7s instead of Xeons and non-ECC RAM, for us "non pro" types ;)

But that's never going to happen :(
 
Practically every Mac user assumes that Mac Pros are meant for running Final Cut Pro and NOTHING ELSE!

It's kind of a problem. People equate Final Cut Pro unhappiness with people not buying the Mac Pro anymore.

It's been about a year since I did anything serious in FCP. Yet I use my Mac Pro every day for many other tasks that push all 8 cores to the limit. I don't think that FCP users make up an astounding percentage of the Mac Pro market, and even if those users abandon FCP, it doesn't mean abandoning the Mac.

This may come as a shock to some people, but Apple didn't used to make any pro apps at all. Yet they still sold pro hardware, and made decent money doing it.
 
I don't use FCP and have never owned a digital video camera, but I've still had a PowerMac of some sort or another over the past 10 years.

Going for an iMac would be strictly due to tight budgeting, I'd much rather have a tower. Some people are that way about buying trucks and SUVs as well. I drive a rather large car and bought it.. because I liked it.....

Yea, I'd prefer to have a Mac Pro. If all else, you can throw a very powerful graphics card in for windows gaming. :>
 
Why is it that nobody has mentioned the iOS market in this thread?

A lot of people pushing out apps for a living have more then one use for the resources a Mac Pro offers. If Apple were to axe that line (apart from it being the only semi-decent server system left), it would send the message that they're no longer interested in catering to the content creators that ultimately empower their mobile device market.

Without apps, they've got nothing.

No developer in their sane mind is going to want to keep around a Windows machine for the heavy lifting, and a iMac or Mac Mini for programming. Corporate suicide begins by locking everyone into a platform (which I'm fine with by the way- it's very green inside the walled garden), then removing the tools people need to produce stuff that runs on your software.

-SC
 
Shrinking? Again, the Mac market isn't shrinking.
What are you basing this on?

I ask, as the information that was on the front page was the result of the entire computer sales, not narrowed down to the MP (consumer models are up overall, but it's a mistake to presume the % even across every model, particularly the MP).

Given the workstation market in general is in a transitional state due to the increasing core counts per die (more users are finding it possible to shift from a DP system to an SP system), it's not unreasonable to conclude that the MP sales figures follow this trend rather than defy it (even though it's the only desktop they offer with PCIe slots, the MSRP's are a bit hard to swallow for consumer/enthusiast users, which helped push up sales volumes with previous models).

Well, we don't know the Mac Pro's individual growth, but I like I said, this would be more of a concern if the Mac Pro had a large R&D budget, but it doesn't.

Don't get me wrong, eventually, some day years from now, the Mac Pro will go away. But the R&D budget is so low on the Mac Pro I don't see it being a concern for Apple.
Assuming all things equal, the R&D figures wouldn't be that different from what other vendors spend (unfortunately, I don't expect they spend as much). Where it differs however, is the per unit distribution due to the lower economy of scale (fewer systems to divide out over). Given Apple's MSRP's, it wouldn't be a problem as there's enough markup to counter that (and then some).

But when you consider the ROI on those funds, it's very likely they could do better by shifting them to another product that has a much better ROI (due to higher growth rates, such as those of they're obtaining from the devices).

There isn't any evidence that I've seen that the Mac Pro is encountering a significant sales slide. No one here knows the exact numbers, but this whole "should I buy a laptop or a desktop" discussion has been going on since 1999 when Apple pushed the Pismo G3 Powerbooks as a Final Cut workstation.
Obviously Apple doesn't provide detailed figures per product (just categories). But it's possible to get a reasonable idea from other data sources, such as figures published on marketshare with a few calculations (workstation data and OS marketshare).

No, it's not. As the Mac gains more acceptance in the market, so does the Mac Pro.
You're assuming the Halo Effect applies to the MP to the same degree as it does for their consumer products. In some cases, it might, but enterprise users tend to be immune to this more than consumer users (enterprise purchases are typically based off of cold, clinical cost/performance analysis, not emotions).

Granted, this has been less so in the past from what I've seen with the MP, but economics (higher MSRP's + uncertain market conditions) seem to have prompted MP users to take the clinical approach from what I'm seeing here in MR (What model.. laptop vs. MP... sorts of threads).

Does it matter? If it only grew 0.1% a year, Apple would still have no reason to cut it.
This isn't quite true. If the growth is high enough, it will survive. But as it diminishes, the ROI gets below a threshold they've established, it's more beneficial to them to take those funds and direct them to a new product that will generate a much better ROI.

If they don't, earnings would stall, and the stockholders could demand a few people's heads (they've gotten accustomed to ever increasing dividends/stock prices, and it's as addictive as any Schedule I drug... :eek: :p).

What competitors are spending large amounts of R&D on workstations? I don't see Dell pouring money into R&D on workstations. Neither is HP. Because they play the same game as Apple. Workstations aren't complicated, and we as customers aren't hard to please. Just throw us new processors and GPUs, and we'll be happy.
Users see the new CPU's, GPU's, ..., but there's a lot more money spent on validation/verification testing than consumer machines due to the operational environments and need for stability (everything from component selection all the way through to what's listed on various Hardware and Software Compatibility Lists consumes more man-hours). Combine all of it, and you'd be surprised at what they spend, even though it's not visible to the eye or listed on a specifications sheet (i.e. features). Where it does show up, is in things like reliability and integrated solutions offered.

Unfortunately, Apple doesn't offer the amount of additional hardware and software for customized integrated solutions, so they wouldn't spend as much in this particular area (which is why I suspect they spend as much on R&D as other vendors).

Even if someone were forced to stick with or prefer Windows OS, people are even wiping Mac OSX and installing windows on MacBook Pros making better windows machines. I'm hearing a larger group of users doing this.
Where?

I ask, as I'd have expected this before the 2009 systems came out due to the better pricing structures for the earlier models (particularly for independent users/small business).

Large enterprise users OTOH, would shy away from this due to a few reasons:
  1. IT staff would kick up a fuss and/or run into some issues that would be difficult or even impossible to solve (lack of firmware access, limited hardware support for things like RAID controllers <they like to keep things the same wherever possible = reduced support costs>, no hardware support for InfiniBand, .... sorts of things)
  2. Integrated Solutions available that Apple doesn't offer
  3. Hardware options not available through Apple, and they want a single contact for warranty support
Practically every Mac user assumes that Mac Pros are meant for running Final Cut Pro and NOTHING ELSE!.
Apple put their efforts into targeting graphics content professionals with the MP, so it's to be expected.

It's been about a year since I did anything serious in FCP. Yet I use my Mac Pro every day for many other tasks that push all 8 cores to the limit. I don't think that FCP users make up an astounding percentage of the Mac Pro market, and even if those users abandon FCP, it doesn't mean abandoning the Mac.
Most of the MP users I've ever seen/heard of, are using them for graphics content creation.

A lot of people pushing out apps for a living have more then one use for the resources a Mac Pro offers. If Apple were to axe that line (apart from it being the only semi-decent server system left), it would send the message that they're no longer interested in catering to the content creators that ultimately empower their mobile device market.
iOS could be developed on a Mini or iMac (matte screen isn't a necessity, and TB allows for improved I/O performance). You and others may not be willing to readily embrace it with open arms, but Apple could see such systems as a solution in the not too distant future (such as when Haswell releases, as 8 cores will be available on consumer CPUID's).

The Mini Server will be able to do quite a bit by then as well, so they even have a solution for OS X Server.
 
Apple put their efforts into targeting graphics content professionals with the MP, so it's to be expected.

That, or the graphics content professionals have such huge egos they forget that there are other "professional" computer users out there. XD
 
That, or the graphics content professionals have such huge egos they forget that there are other "professional" computer users out there. XD
Well, if MR is what comes to mind, it seems reasonable that creative professionals dominate the market. :D

But when I think about the marketing approach (helped along by software vendors), I still recall MP's aimed mostly at creative professionals rather than say engineering or science (they made a few stabs in the scientific market, but it seemed half-baked and didn't do well).

Even Wiki's Overview section of their Mac Pro page states that they aimed it at "non-linear digital editing for high-definition video".
 
Do the math

Apple makes the equivalent of a dozen iPhones with every pro computer sale. Furthermore my would any company on the planet just dismiss millions of high profit products and customers. That doesn't even make sense.

Really how hard is it for Apple to drop in a new chip add some bells and whistles and voilà - millions of dollars in profit.
 
Even if someone were forced to stick with or prefer Windows OS, people are even wiping Mac OSX and installing windows on MacBook Pros making better windows machines. I'm hearing a larger group of users doing this.

Can't see why the Mac Pro can do the same thing, running windows if the users don't have the choice in the matter as far as supporting their have to have windows software.

I know of a few people who do that. There is this dentist that has iMacs all over the office, not one of them running OSX because his specialized software only works on Windows. A friend of mine runs a bootcamped Windows on his Macbook and he never uses OSX.
 
80% of my users use Mac Pro's for Adobe CS suite. NOT video. The smaller group does use Final Cut but they also use Smoke, Maya, AE, etc. Adobe has a bit of blame here as well. Some departments have gone 27" iMac because of Adobe's feet dragging on multi-core support. Why bother with Mac Pro when we lock them down anyway and need them to have reasonable data management (ie. less HDD's) to keep the tape use low. Current iMac's are just as fast on CS suite sometimes faster thanks to the up-clock on single threads. Repair is no issue as they are usually replaced every 2 years.
 
80% of my users use Mac Pro's for Adobe CS suite. NOT video. The smaller group does use Final Cut but they also use Smoke, Maya, AE, etc. Adobe has a bit of blame here as well. Some departments have gone 27" iMac because of Adobe's feet dragging on multi-core support. Why bother with Mac Pro when we lock them down anyway and need them to have reasonable data management (ie. less HDD's) to keep the tape use low. Current iMac's are just as fast on CS suite sometimes faster thanks to the up-clock on single threads. Repair is no issue as they are usually replaced every 2 years.

Unless you're running some super high res (as in well beyond a typical A2 size) 16 bit cmyk files photoshop pretty much runs fine on anything these days. Illustrator varies. The others vary. With Adobe software specifically even on larger files most actions are near instant assuming you have the CS5 suite and enough ram that the program isn't terribly reliant on its scratch disks.

Adobe and Autodesk not long ago were working on just getting all of their software up to 64 bit versions, so at some point they probably did dump a lot of legacy code. Maya went 64 bit with 2010. Adobe I think got most of their suite up to that point with the CS5 suite. Before that it was a different rewrite.

A big problem on the mac pro end though has been Apple's general handling of it. When you jump from a top imac to the mac pro, you no longer have an advantage on ram or cpu at the point of entry which remains higher than where the imac leaves off. The guys that went to imacs probably bought towers before in the $2500-3000 range before upgrades on commodity parts like ram and hard drives. I doubt many of them would have been customers for a $5k+ mac pro even if Adobe made every effort toward greater core utilization. The maya and smoke users might be a little different there.
 
Where?

I ask, as I'd have expected this before the 2009 systems came out due to the better pricing structures for the earlier models (particularly for independent users/small business).

Large enterprise users OTOH, would shy away from this due to a few reasons:

IT staff would kick up a fuss and/or run into some issues that would be difficult or even impossible to solve (lack of firmware access, limited hardware support for things like RAID controllers <they like to keep things the same wherever possible = reduced support costs>, no hardware support for InfiniBand, .... sorts of things)
Integrated Solutions available that Apple doesn't offer
Hardware options not available through Apple, and they want a single contact for warranty support

Obviously not so much big business, but small businesses and independent consultants ect.
 
The guys that went to imacs probably bought towers before in the $2500-3000 range before upgrades on commodity parts like ram and hard drives. I doubt many of them would have been customers for a $5k+ mac pro even if Adobe made every effort toward greater core utilization. The maya and smoke users might be a little different there.

Money does not play into it really. These are major players with close to unlimited funds. They would have bought 12-cores if it was appropriate. The video staff does have 12-cores. AI, InDesign, Dreamweaver, everything that is not Photoshop does not take advantage of any multicore combination. The 12-core 2.93GHz was just slower than the iMac in testing. These guys don't need more than 12GB memory for their stuff though so it was a viable alternative even though the expandability was lost. They don't expand anything anyway, thats my job.:)
 
Bleep...

Delurk.

My last machine was a 2.5 ghz G5 tower with 8 gigs of ram and two 1.5 TB drives and a nVidia 7800GS video card. It WAS a kick butt machine and I used it to death on multple CD and video projects.

Until the damned liquid cooling wrecked it not only once but twice. Depressing.

Too damn expensive to replace honestly. What am I running now? Corei7 iMac with 16 gigs of ram, 3 TB FW800 external raid and four 1+ TB USB backup drives.

At any rate, my protestations are this: "it's all well and good to have IOS devices to consume content on, however, someone MUST CREATE the content for the consumers to consume."

You need pro level systems to be able to create content. Garageband on an iPad does not equal a big system.
 
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