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My Beloved Wife loves to watch Father Brown and I was impressed when the Father encountered a suicide victim.
Said the good Father, "That is the only unpardonable sin."

Your loved ones want you to join them in Paradise. Be sure you do. Stay here and do your duty, helping others all you can.
 
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There’s no end to my life, there's an end and transitions of the physical form on earth, as it belongs to the earth - that’s it.
How life and its consciousness exists and evolves is a much larger question that has to do with more then life on Earth, and Earth is not my home planet 👽
 
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There’s no end to my life, there's an end and transitions of the physical form on earth, as it belongs to the earth - that’s it.
How life and its consciousness exists and evolves is a much larger question that has to do with more then life on Earth, and Earth is not my home planet 👽
I agree! And the rational is simple- I believe in purpose, without any proof, it seems obvious. The counter? Apologies if I’m repeating myself. If in an infinite time line we find ourselves with consciousness for the equivalent of a micro-second, and then go back to not existing, is there a point? Could it be chance, without any logic? Certainly, definitely beyond our understanding. But although I don’t, can’t believe in anything specific, the miracle of consciousness, would seem too special to be wasted on a micro-sec of it.
One other philosophical point, if 0-100 years is all anyone gets, why bother? Does anything matter at all, if we all end up not existing after a such a short stint of awareness? In contrast, I believe in the concept of a journey that has to be longer than a pitiful 100 years. I like it, and if I’m wrong, no harm done, mortal death is just returning to our natural state. 🙂
 
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One other philosophical point, if 0-100 years is all anyone gets, why bother? Does anything matter at all, if we all end up not existing after a such a short stint of awareness? In contrast, I believe in the concept of a journey that has to be longer than a pitiful 100 years. I like it, and if I’m wrong, no harm done, mortal death is just returning to our natural state. 🙂

Someone once said that every 100 years you have an entirely new set of people. And for the most part, this is true.

I have never been one to worry about what happens to me when I am gone. My will states that I am to be cremated and my relatives are free to do with my ashes as they see fit. Don't care what happens to my "stuff" either. My mom wore me out in her last days over what I was going to do with the portrait of her father that hung in the living room. I mean this this is like 5x7 FEET. Keep in mind he died before I was born, so I never knew him. I had to promise her it wouldn't end up in a dumpster somewhere. As of now it is in storage in the corner of the storage building and most likely will remain there until I die and then my wife or daughter, who didn't make the promise, can throw it away.

I also think medical technology has outpaced some of its usefulness. Just because we can keep someone alive doesn't mean we should. Now in my grandfather's case, he died of a heart attack in 1964. Had that happened in 1984 and certainly in 2004 there is a good chance he would have survived it. But at the same time, my mother in her last days was suffering kidney failure and 10 days before she passed I was asked (I had medical POA) if I wanted to start dialysis. She was 93 on her way to 94, couldn't walk, couldn't clean herself, etc. So NO!

And while I do care of what effect my passing would have on my wife and daughter, that is only a concern I have while living. Once I am gone, I won't know.
 
I know a little about death. When I was 10, I found my mother dead. My step-dad had shot her in the head. Years of abuse that ended on March 22, 1994. Of course, the image is seared in my brain and I think about it everyday. That moment is one of the lens/filters that has shaped how I view everything.

And myself, I had a medical episode on Feb 14, 2018 where for a few seconds I sincerely thought I was dying. I obviously didn’t, and it ended up not being serious, but for about 15 seconds or so, laying on the bed with all my senses and functions gone I looked at the window and thought, “well, this is it.” and waited...

I’m a Christian and a pastor and in ministry graduate school. Most pastors are around death a good bit. I have the “honor/priveldge” (I know that isn’t the right word but you know what I mean) of not only being a pastor who hopes to comfort people, but I also carry around with me the mental image of my mother dying the way she did and me finding her. And my theological leaning is toward seriousness and some of the puritan thoughts. I think about death because it is certain to happen, I won’t be able to stop it, and it faces every single person I come in contact with. And, similar to the comment above (though used the word consciousness and an alien emoji) I believe that when that happens that is not the end of a single person whom I have or ever will meet. As a Christian, my belief in the Bible shapes what I think about after this life. And, due to a personal experience I experienced in October 2005 I will never, can never, shall never deny what I experienced that night. Time and space here doesn’t allow, but if someone presented me with all the money in the world and tried to get me to deny what happened that night, I wouldn’t be able to do it. Keeping with the alien emoji, it’s like Fox Mulder said in the first season of the X-Files, “You can deny what I have said, but I cannot deny what I have seen."

Sorry for being long-winded (I am a preacher, right ;) but I couldn’t see this thread and skip it. My heart wouldn’t let me. I know you’re a stranger, but I know Someone who has compassion on strangers. If the tone of my post has been any indication, I would be glad to help you—even if that is something as simple as being a listening ear.

I’ll end with this: on another tech forum I read, someone commented recently that due to their age, they were in the market for their last computer they’ll ever use. That hit me. As much as I love tech and love theology I had never thought of it in that way. (one day you’ll tell your spouse goodbye, you might not ever see this or that again, etc, all those sermon remarks). But I had never thought of someone buying their final computer knowing that whatever processor they get and whatever storage amount they get that will be the one the end with. Welp. That puts things in a different light. That could be any one of us. It could be me. And if it is me, I hope that the ways I’ve used my MBP and my MBA and other devices were for good and helping others. If I can help you, let me know.

Tony Walker
 
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Also maybe see if you can replace the computer with an ipad (even an older one). Its so much more intuitive for the older generation although I understand your dad may not take to it.
Judging by my parents and mother in law they eventually get to a state where you can't introduce new technology. All they have got is those abilities that were learnt a long time ago. My mother in law's microwave is playing up so my plan is to buy exactly the same make and model (if we can find one).
 
Empathy! With a good dash of MYOB.

So many posts are ready to push (or dispose of?) this person where he doesn't want to go or just off him. I wonder how different opinions would be if those posting were in his shoes.

If this man wants to continue living where he lives, that seems like it is HIS business. It's his life, his money, his home, his choices. If it leads to him dying there, he dies there. If it leads to a premature death there, he dies prematurely... by his own choice. If he decides he needs help, he can choose any of the options for such help.

This is another thread full of projections of what one wants applied to someone else. Let that "someone else" most impacted by all these life-changing recommendations FOR him have their full say. And that should be the dominant say.

When they are completely incapable of having a say, someone else might then decide for them. Until then, "honor thy Father." If his wishes are to carry on where he is and there's not actually something to stop that, let him live what's left of his life as he wants to live it. At most, this is a private, family matter... but even within the family, it's HIS life to live how and where he wants. Let him.

And then- when any poster find themselves in the very same shoes- I hope you get to live out your own last days as you wish too... instead of having others- including a bunch of strangers- decide for you... including family members who may have the very best intentions.
 
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Judging by my parents and mother in law they eventually get to a state where you can't introduce new technology. All they have got is those abilities that were learnt a long time ago. My mother in law's microwave is playing up so my plan is to buy exactly the same make and model (if we can find one).

Sadly that can be an issue. I was very fortunate that my grandmother remained very sharp through her years and even learned to use a computer to write letters (in word) and send emails to family and friends. I aspire to be that flexible in my old age too.
 
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Sadly that can be an issue. I was very fortunate that my grandmother remained very sharp through her years and even learned to use a computer to write letters (in word) and send emails to family and friends. I aspire to be that flexible in my old age too.
My mother-in-law turned 98 in October this year, and she's still using her laptop to write letters and documents, etc. She works (volunteer) at a local museum in Washington, and so on. She has to use a walker to move around, but still lives in her own house. The great difference is that she has a great number of friends, some close to her age, and others much younger. Most of them are retired, and quite skillful (foresters, IT technicians, realtors, a lawyer or two, etc.). Some drive and give her rides, sometimes they go on group drives. She is happy and contempt with her life :)

My wife travels from Alaska twice each year, spring and fall, to visit her. She spends two weeks per visit. They talk on the phone every Thursday to keep ups with the 'latest" news about family and things like that.
 
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If this man wants to continue living where he lives, that seems like it is HIS business. It's his life, his money, his home, his choices. If it leads to him dying there, he dies there. If it leads to a premature death there, he dies prematurely... by his own choice. If he decides he needs help, he can choose any of the options for such help.
My mother in law is adamant she won't go into a home. The problem is she can't look after herself nor afford carers to help her. The pattern is she deteriorates until she becomes ill and ends up in hospital. The hospital nurses her back to health so she can return home and enter the cycle again.

At this point she isn't capable of making a rational decision so we will nudge her into a home. I have no doubt in my mind she will be better off there even if she doesn't realise it right now.

From our early investigations it seems a common pattern for people to be reluctant to accept moving out of their home only to find it is much better than they expected and to regret they didn't do it earlier.

From our perspective this is a poor financial decision as it will eat into any potential inheritance, good nursing care is very expensive in the UK.
 
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I fully understand such sentiments. We all have aging relatives and can all have "best intentions" thoughts. Now put yourself in her shoes and observe these younger relatives nudging you to leave your home and complete freedoms to move into a group facility. Is their prodding really for your benefit or- at least partially- for some other motive?

If you ask those getting old enough to start getting into the window of their end, they will often refer to such homes as "places to go to die." One driving force of their reluctance may be to not accept a "last step" towards death. Even those in critical conditions who might be better off to just die tend to fight hard not to go. Life- even with some misery/pain- is preferred to death for many. In this scenario, this is usually NOT that... but more of a voluntary CHOICE on their part: I can go like these younger relatives are suggesting or I can stay and retain my freedoms.

If you pay attention to what people getting into that window of age but not quite there say, a common phrase you'll likely hear is: "I'd rather just die than go to such a place." If it's your turn- if you are in such a person's shoes- would you rather die than go to such a place? As soon as you hear that phrase come out of your own mouth, you gain remarkable empathy for anyone you are encouraging to go. Do you feel that way about it for you? Why should the elder not feel that way too?

Yes, they very well may be "better off." Yes, they very well may have more immediate care if needed. Etc. Those are all in the standard bag of rationalizations about this. Now check the other bag as they may see it. Much of their existing freedoms will be lost. If they want to go to the park, see a movie, or shop at the mall today, they probably can't because the "warden" of the place says no. Instead of being in a world of people very young to very old, they are likely within a walled facility of only very old... where everyone except the caretakers are quickly marching towards death and what they get to see among the confined social circle is only death after death after death.

When one is old and interacting daily with young, it can keep them on their toes... keeping up with the new, continuing to learn about what is "in", what is happening now through younger eyes. When one is among only the old, there's none of that. Instead, the social pool is people plodding towards their demise, often with many forgetting conversations had as recently as only hours ago. There's not much youthful "new" to bring freshness to conversations (and thus thought)... only a lot of who died, who had an emergency event, the same stories over and over because the storyteller doesn't remember telling it yesterday, etc.

It is likely that everyone they've ever known that finally "gave in" to their families nudges have never been seen again and/or are already goners. You don't find many who go and then are ambassadors selling other people to give in too. Go on a great cruise or take a big trip and you'll soon find yourself encouraging others to do the same. Go chat with people already IN such places and see how many of them are gushing about the experience and encouraging you to get in there as soon as possible. Think about why you DON'T see much of that.

Do some people get to a point where that's pretty much the only option? Probably... maybe even certainly. But if I'm in those shoes, I'd be incredibly reluctant to accept the nudges too. Through one lens, it is "better" for them... but through their lens, is it not something akin to maybe white collar jail? Do they get to cook & eat what they like & when they like or are meals decided for them- including items they don't like- on some facility schedule? Do they get to check out and go where they want or are they basically locked in? Do they have much say in about anything that they do or is done to them?

When we decide to 'encourage' our elders into such places, consider making it a two-fer commitment. In other words, go ahead and sign yourself up too... so that you can know that when you get to that same age, you can go into the same place. Give that thought and you may suddenly see it all very differently.

Again, sometimes there are no choices... sometimes it's the only option. But until it is exactly that, I encourage all who would send their loved ones there "for their own good" to give it much thought. The elder may prefer the risks and conceptually more difficult life of complete freedoms in their own home vs. signing all that away. Whose house is it? Whose money is it? Whose life is it? When your own time comes, will you feel very differently about the proposition when you are the elder? Think carefully and be sure to apply plenty of empathy. Just about all of us will be their age one day.
 
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My mother in law is adamant she won't go into a home. The problem is she can't look after herself nor afford carers to help her. The pattern is she deteriorates until she becomes ill and ends up in hospital. The hospital nurses her back to health so she can return home and enter the cycle again.
My sympathies lie with her.
At this point she isn't capable of making a rational decision so we will nudge her into a home. I have no doubt in my mind she will be better off there even if she doesn't realise it right now.
Why?

Such homes - which need to be profitable (which means that the quality of care may be sacrificed to the need to generate a profit for shareholders, especially if they are owned by a large company), are full of false cheer, hideous group activities, enforced socialisation, and a place that is most manifestly "not yours", but somewhere where you are on sufferance (and at the mercy of staff, not to mention kin) are nothing but an absolute nightmare for individuals who are introverted by nature, and have prized their independence - physical, professional, financial, psychological - and their autonomy all of their lives.
From our early investigations it seems a common pattern for people to be reluctant to accept moving out of their home only to find it is much better than they expected and to regret they didn't do it earlier.
And it is also a common pattern for some people to enter homes and die (because they have given up, feel abandoned and of no worth, and they no longer live in a place that is familiar, and feels comfortable and safe to them) very shortly afterwards.
From our perspective this is a poor financial decision as it will eat into any potential inheritance,
Now, this sentence does bother me.

What "inheritance"?

It is not an inheritance until the person who possesses them, owns them, calls them their own, actually dies and the beneficiaries inherit the estate.

Who actually owns - and has the right to dispose of howsoever they like - while they live - what you refer to as "the inheritance"?

Until then, until the person whose assets these are - and until that happens these are assets, in essence, the fruit of a lifetime's work on the part of the person who owns them - actually dies - or, is deemed no longer competent to control their assets (in which case they should be used solely for the benefit of the person in question), - these remain the assets, the estate, of the individual who owns them, and not their offspring.
good nursing care is very expensive in the UK.
Indeed.

Maybe I'm old school, but I think that in so far as possible, people should be supported in their desire to retain their independence for as long as is possible.

Anyway, I agree with the posts written by @HobeSoundDarryl.
 
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Such homes - which need to be profitable (which means that the quality of care may be sacrificed to the need to generate a profit for shareholders, especially if they are owned by a large company), are full of false cheer, hideous group activities, enforced socialisation, and a place that is most manifestly "not yours", but somewhere where you are on sufferance (and at the mercy of staff, not to mention kin) are nothing but an absolute nightmare for individuals who are introverted by nature, and have prized their independence - physical, professional, financial, psychological - and their autonomy all of their lives.
All that has gone, she can't take herself to the toilet on her own, can't dress herself, can't warm soup in the microwave, can't operate her TV, can't leave the house. She has no independence, she is totally reliant on us and carers.

Also she isn't introverted, quite the opposite in fact. This is one of the reasons I think she would do well in care.

The only reason I mentioned inheritance is because I thought you would go off on a rant about it. The point being that we have nothing to gain from this other than seeing her being well looked after. If you read more carefully you will see I said potential inheritance.

And it is also a common pattern for some people to enter homes and die
She had two close calls in the last month, she isn't going to last long at home. She had five falls in the week up to Christmas.

Maybe I'm old school, but I think that in so far as possible, people should be supported in their desire to retain their independence for as long as is possible.
Which we have been supporting for years.

It would be nice to think we can all have a good life until we quietly pop our clogs in our armchair one Sunday afternoon. The reality is different for most people.
 
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My sympathies lie with her.

Why?

Such homes - which need to be profitable (which means that the quality of care may be sacrificed to the need to generate a profit for shareholders, especially if they are owned by a large company), are full of false cheer, hideous group activities, enforced socialisation, and a place that is most manifestly "not yours", but somewhere where you are on sufferance (and at the mercy of staff, not to mention kin) are nothing but an absolute nightmare for individuals who are introverted by nature, and have prized their independence - physical, professional, financial, psychological - and their autonomy all of their lives.

And it is also a common pattern for some people to enter homes and die (because they have given up, feel abandoned and of no worth) very shortly afterwards.

Now, this sentence does bother me.

What "inheritance"?

It is not an inheritance until the person who possesses them, owns them, calls them their own, actually dies and the beneficiaries inherit the estate.

Who actually owns - and has the right to dispose of howsoever they like - while they live - what you refer to as "the inheritance"?

Until then, until the person whose assets these are - and until that happens these are assets, in essence, the fruit of a lifetime's work on the part of the person who owns them - actually dies - or, is deemed no longer competent to control their assets (in which case they should be used solely for the benefit of the person in question), - these remains the assets, the estate, of the individual who owns them, and not their offspring.

Indeed.

Maybe I'm old school, but I think that in so far as possible, people should be supported in their desire to retain their independence for as long as is possible.

Anyway, I agree with the posts written by @HobeSoundDarryl.
Some very valid points. My Dad worked hard all his working life. Often two jobs. He retired late.
He has been going on a lot of expensive holidays of late and seen some fantastic places. I encourage him to do so as basically he might not have the chance if his mobility were to deteriorate for example.

He has earned every penny and if he spends it all it is HIS money to do what he wants with.
 
As someone who is a member of the aging cohort this is definitely something about which I think, especially as each new year and new birthday arrives....

Right now I am independent, living in my own home, able to do all the things that need my attention, from driving and running various errands, to taking care of my finances, my home and myself, and am wholly mobile. In nice weather I go out walking around taking photos, usually carrying potentially heavy camera gear. While I'm not the greatest or most enthusiastic cook in the world, I do shop for ingredients and prepare my own meals. I appreciate and enjoy my independence and certainly at this point I feel there is no need to give it up.

However, realistically, I also am aware that in the event that I become unable to care for my own well-being and continue my life as I have been fortunate enough to do so far, I really do not have anyone who could take me into their home or take over the responsibility for my care. I do have a niece and nephew, but each of them has their own families and are already dealing with difficult situations. Neither family lives anywhere near me, either, so the last thing I'd want or expect from them would be them also trying to provide or oversee care for me.

Hopefully if or when the time comes that I need to make new choices and decisions about what happens to me next, I will recognize and acknowledge this. I certainly prefer to be able to take action and make the necessary arrangements myself, seek out the resources I would need, plus consult with agencies which provide services to the aging.

The concept of "aging-in-place" in one's own home certainly sounds appealing, and I can see why many people and their families go for this solution. However, it can be fraught with issues, too, especially if the individual concerned is struggling with cognitive or mobility issues. There are situations, unfortunately, where for various reasons, probably a care home is actually the most appropriate solution.
 
As someone who is a member of the aging cohort this is definitely something about which I think, especially as each new year and new birthday arrives....

Right now I am independent, living in my own home, able to do all the things that need my attention, from driving and running various errands, to taking care of my finances, my home and myself, and am wholly mobile. In nice weather I go out walking around taking photos, usually carrying potentially heavy camera gear. While I'm not the greatest or most enthusiastic cook in the world, I do shop for ingredients and prepare my own meals. I appreciate and enjoy my independence and certainly at this point I feel there is no need to give it up.

However, realistically, I also am aware that in the event that I become unable to care for my own well-being and continue my life as I have been fortunate enough to do so far, I really do not have anyone who could take me into their home or take over the responsibility for my care. I do have a niece and nephew, but each of them has their own families and are already dealing with difficult situations. Neither family lives anywhere near me, either, so the last thing I'd want or expect from them would be them also trying to provide or oversee care for me.

Hopefully if or when the time comes that I need to make new choices and decisions about what happens to me next, I will recognize and acknowledge this. I certainly prefer to be able to take action and make the necessary arrangements myself, seek out the resources I would need, plus consult with agencies which provide services to the aging.

The concept of "aging-in-place" in one's own home certainly sounds appealing, and I can see why many people and their families go for this solution. However, it can be fraught with issues, too, especially if the individual concerned is struggling with cognitive or mobility issues. There are situations, unfortunately, where for various reasons, probably a care home is actually the most appropriate solution.
Thanks for sharing!
 
Judging by my parents and mother in law they eventually get to a state where you can't introduce new technology. All they have got is those abilities that were learnt a long time ago. My mother in law's microwave is playing up so my plan is to buy exactly the same make and model (if we can find one).
My father is like this. He needs a new phone for the house, we go buy one, everything seems fine, you can tap in a number on the keypad, pick it up to answer. Have some numbers in a contact list for me and my brother. But a second phone in this set is wireless. After I’m gone, he’s got it in his pocket out back in his yard, it rings and he can’t figure out how to answer it. A single answer button. He calls me in a panic, “I can’t handle it!” and wants to return it… My guess is he can’t access the contact list now, but he does know how to call us. 😳
 
The concept of "aging-in-place" in one's own home certainly sounds appealing,

That is bad advice in my experience. My parents lawyer suggested that to my parents and my mother completely embraced it. Made it much harder to move her to assisted living when it became necessary.

Getting help for more than a few hours a day becomes prohibitively expensive at $25 an hour for 8 hours. That's $6000 a month which could be the entry price for assisted living. In addition to that cost yoiu have to add the usual costs of running and maintaining a home.
 
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That is bad advice in my experience. My parents lawyer suggested that to my parents and my mother completely embraced it. Made it much harder to move her to assisted living when it became necessary.

Getting help for more than a few hours a day becomes prohibitively expensive at $25 an hour for 8 hours. That's $6000 a month which could be the entry price for assisted living. In addition to that cost yoiu have to add the usual costs of running and maintaining a home.
Personally I’d rather die poor in my own home than anywhere else.
 
That is bad advice in my experience. My parents lawyer suggested that to my parents and my mother completely embraced it. Made it much harder to move her to assisted living when it became necessary.

Getting help for more than a few hours a day becomes prohibitively expensive at $25 an hour for 8 hours. That's $6000 a month which could be the entry price for assisted living. In addition to that cost yoiu have to add the usual costs of running and maintaining a home.
To clarify my sentence, I was not advising or suggesting this solution and in fact simply commented that "the concept of 'aging in place' sounds appealing...." I then went on to remind people that there are potential pitfalls. And, yes, one of those is trying to later get the client to then move out of their home at the time when it really is imperative for a higher level of care.

In addition, there often are issues with caregiver staffing, scheduling and reliability and so someone has to be on top of that all the time too. Usually a family member or other trusted individual needs to take the responsibility of managing things through an agency or even trying to hire/fire caregiving personnel on their own. And, yes, it becomes quite expensive, too, for everyone concerned. I suspect many families don't realize all of this until it is too late.....

This also is a situation which, when it comes to healthcare/senior care financing and assistance, differs from country to country, and in the US the healthcare/senior care system is far from ideal and extraordinarily expensive.
 
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Now, this sentence does bother me.

What "inheritance"?

It is not an inheritance until the person who possesses them, owns them, calls them their own, actually dies and the beneficiaries inherit the estate.

Who actually owns - and has the right to dispose of howsoever they like - while they live - what you refer to as "the inheritance"?

Until then, until the person whose assets these are - and until that happens these are assets, in essence, the fruit of a lifetime's work on the part of the person who owns them - actually dies - or, is deemed no longer competent to control their assets (in which case they should be used solely for the benefit of the person in question), - these remains the assets, the estate, of the individual who owns them, and not their offspring.


Indeed.

Maybe I'm old school, but I think that in so far as possible, people should be supported in their desire to retain their independence for as long as is possible.

Anyway, I agree with the posts written by @HobeSoundDarryl.
I could not have said it better!
 
When your family member begins to decline in physical and/or mental health, take them to a notary public to execute a Power of Attorney vested in their closest loved one, husband, wife, son, daughter, or granddaughter/son.

They may not want to do what is urgently needed. Keeping them at home, preferably with their closest kin, is far superior in every way for as long as it is possible. This could be years. "Experts" are paid thousands of dollars for referrals to senior care centers, which cost from $5,000 to $10,000 monthly. The "expert" will recommend the most expensive one, claiming it is "the best" when in fact it only PAYS THEM "the best."

The experts don't care what is best for your loved one, only for what lines their pockets.
 
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