Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I'm probably not the best source of an opinion since I was never interested in a Mini and don't see myself ever wanting one. But as a fan of ios devices, I do find the argument that the 6 Plus will eat up the Mini market compelling.

I have a 5S and am under contract til next year so I see myself getting a 6S Plus. After playing with the 6 Plus, I'm questioning even the need for a 9.7 inch ipad. That Plus is BIG. I also have an iPad 4 and am getting very tempted to upgrade to the Air 2, though thoughts of a potential Pro coming in only a few months are making me unsure about that move.

All that blather was just to say that I'm not sure who the Mini will appeal to once the 6 and 6 Plus form factors become more of the norm amongst iPhone owners. The Mini is really not that much bigger than the 6 Plus and the 6 Plus has apparently a much better quality screen.

You're crazy! Lol The 6+ may be big but it's not that BIG! I have the 6+ while also having a rMini and an iPad Air 2. They all do different things for me and neither device would be able to fully replace the other.

Saying the 6+ can avoid the need for a 9.7" device is just plain crazy. I'll let you try and argue 6+ to mini (even though you're wrong, haha) but not full size to plus.......
 
IMO, the Mini's screen is a lot bigger than the iPhone 6 Plus' screen

jigsaw wrote:

"The Mini is really not that much bigger than the 6 Plus and the 6 Plus has apparently a much better quality screen."

I agree about better quality screen, but regarding the difference in size, the Mini has a screen size that makes in very comfortable to read books on (and also holding with one hand). For me, at least: I would not find it comfortable for longer time periods to read on a screen that is smaller than the Mini's screen size: it's just perfect for reading ebooks, IMO (among other things lesser work demanding activities, of course).

Reading justinTIME's post, I surely agree with him.

Also: The portability convenience of the Mini's size combined with a screen that is big enough to for example read ebooks without straining the eyes too much, is what make the Mini great IMO.
 
Last edited:
As someone who owns a Mini, I am glad that I'll be able to find a third generation somewhere in three years time that I'll be able to pop in my keyboard case and get back to work.

Obviously the 6+ makes productivity a lot easier compared to the 5S and earlier iPhones, but in this day and age, this is not desirable:

Z34APLPOC-BK0.png


When we can have this instead:

08db8e9b44cfbadc7f04241aad0368012435_1280x686.jpg


I have a full computer that I can carry pretty easily in a small purse or my coat pocket and I like that, and so do many other people. If they got rid of it, it would just push people to buy remaining stock until it dried out. Too many people here make it look like it's an iPod problem and it's not.
 
If it wasn't for the 6 plus, I would never come back to an apple phone.

And although I didn't bite on the mini 3, I could easily see a traveler wanting the touch ID. But that's about it.

But did it warrant a true "upgrade" and name?

Na.


I've owned every iPhone since the first (and excluding the 5 series) and coming from a 5.9" HTC max. So it's good to be back.
 
The Mini is really not that much bigger than the 6 Plus and the 6 Plus has apparently a much better quality screen.

iPhone 6 Plus: 736 x 414 = 304704 points
iPad mini: 1024 x 768 = 423936 points

423936 / 304704 = 40% more points = 40% more content on the screen.

Where 'points' are the logical points available, and determines how 'much' you can actually see. More pixels just makes things smoother.
 
iPhone 6 Plus: 736 x 414 = 304704 points
iPad mini: 1024 x 768 = 423936 points

423936 / 304704 = 40% more points = 40% more content on the screen.

Where 'points' are the logical points available, and determines how 'much' you can actually see. More pixels just makes things smoother.

Logical points in iOS do not have a 1:1 relationship with reasonable text size or proper content formatting. At current pixel densities, the only thing that matters is the physical screen area and how well it is utilized by applications.
 
Logical points in iOS do not have a 1:1 relationship with reasonable text size or proper content formatting. At current pixel densities, the only thing that matters is the physical screen area and how well it is utilized by applications.

Not true. This is the whole reason for talking (and using) logical points in the first place - you target logical points, and it gets rendered at an appropriate size for the given underlying pixels.

How do you explain the iPad mini vs ipad Air?

Identical physical and logical resolution, and despite as you say 'only physical screen area' mattering, you'll see exactly the same thing on both of them. Any app you load shows the same thing, just on the mini it's physically smaller.

The fact is the mini has 40% more available logical points that then iPhone 6 Plus.
 
Not true. This is the whole reason for talking (and using) logical points in the first place - you target logical points, and it gets rendered at an appropriate size for the given underlying pixels.

How do you explain the iPad mini vs ipad Air?

Identical physical and logical resolution, and despite as you say 'only physical screen area' mattering, you'll see exactly the same thing on both of them. Any app you load shows the same thing, just on the mini it's physically smaller.

The fact is the mini has 40% more available logical points that then iPhone 6 Plus.

It is self-evident that physical screen size is what matters at high resolutions. Your statement that having more logical points somehow makes the text more readable is fallacious. Otherwise the mini and air would both be equally readable with the same content, having the same logical resolution ... which is clearly not the case. Lots of people have trouble reading content on the mini because the text is physically rendered too small ... and prefer the larger screen of the air.
 
It is self-evident that physical screen size is what matters at high resolutions.

My point was that's exactly what logical points *take into account*, what's the point in logical pixels if not to abstract physical pixel size/screen size?
 
Given these observations, what do you guys think is in store for the iPad mini product line? What about the 7.0" to 8.4" tablet market at large?


Don't read to much into this. Yeah the 3rd model is old, but so was the 1st. The second was current only because they had to go retina and retina needed the better hw for it not to suck. This isn't a lack of love problem, it's a lack of money problem. An air 2 quality mini would cost near as much as an air 2 to make but since smaller must be cheaper, the margins were to small. Mini will be back with an a8 next year, when the air 3 gets an a9.
 
I wouldn't be surprised that Apple haven't just allowed there to be a performance gap between the Mini and the Air by leaving the spec of the 3 almost identical to the 2.

Just means when they release an update for the next generation of iPads if you want the fastest iPad you'll have to stump up the money for the full size or compromise performance but have the smaller/cheaper tablet.

This will inevitably steer some people into buying the full size iPads, which I assume are more profitable!?

I got the impression that with the first retina Mini offering almost the same performance as the full size iPad that it would steal sales from the Air. I know it did for me because I wanted a smaller tablet that could still perform as well as the big one.

I'm assuming that Apple make more money per Air than per Mini so my trail of thought was that they'd keep the Mini one step behind the Air, to encourage people to buy that.

I could be totally wrong of course but just a thought haha. :rolleyes:
 
1. This is the weakest update that the iPad mini product line has ever been given
How misleading. :rolleyes:
It would be more reasonable to say it's worse than the previous and only other update. The refresh it received last year was much more than people were expecting.

People must have forgotten that a whole two hardware revisions ago it was using an A5.
 
How misleading. :rolleyes:
It would be more reasonable to say it's worse than the previous and only other update. The refresh it received last year was much more than people were expecting.

People must have forgotten that a whole two hardware revisions ago it was using an A5.

Although you are 100% dead on, the reason for everyone's frustration is that we hoped that Apple would continue to keep the mini and the air neck and neck. They started it last year and us mini fans wanted them to continue what they started. That's all.
 
Although you are 100% dead on, the reason for everyone's frustration is that we hoped that Apple would continue to keep the mini and the air neck and neck. They started it last year and us mini fans wanted them to continue what they started. That's all.

It would have been very nice if they had, but it's not surprising they didn't. Last time people were demanding a retina mini, and the device needed the better processor and more memory to support that. Without the pressure of supporting a higher resolution screen, it's not surprising Apple wants to focus their lasted updates on the more expensive device.

And there are some advantages to being second tier. I use the mini for its form factor, and I'd choose it even if it were the same price as the Air, but I certainly don't mind paying less. And there are advantages to not always be on the bleeding edge of technology. I don't know whether to take some of the complaints about the Air 2 like vibration and such seriously, but when the mini gets these upgrades, it will be able to take advantage of what Apple has learned about applying them to the Air 2 first.
 
All these theories about Apple crippling & ultimately doing away with the iPad mini because it canabalizes the iphone 6 plus are absolutely ridiculous! Seriously. Was this update a weak one compared to the iPad Air 2? Yes. But if anything it was to push more people to the more expensive iPad Air and not to the iphone 6 plus. The mini was outselling the air.

People will buy an ipad even if they have an iphone. Some will want the air. And some will want the mini.

Trust me, the iPad mini is here to stay. And it'll get all the features the iPad Air 2 just got. It may even get them in a mid year update. But it will get them. People love the mini.
 
All these theories about Apple crippling & ultimately doing away with the iPad mini because it canabalizes the iphone 6 plus are absolutely ridiculous! Seriously. Was this update a weak one compared to the iPad Air 2? Yes. But if anything it was to push more people to the more expensive iPad Air and not to the iphone 6 plus. The mini was outselling the air.

People will buy an ipad even if they have an iphone. Some will want the air. And some will want the mini.

Trust me, the iPad mini is here to stay. And it'll get all the features the iPad Air 2 just got. It may even get them in a mid year update. But it will get them. People love the mini.

I have not seen any statistics showing that the mini was outselling the air. I would love to see those numbers. I've only read generalizations saying that the air was leading the pack. Do you have a link with that information? Please post if you do. I am a dried in the wool iPad mini fan and I also love my iPad air. The mini goes with me everywhere while the air patiently waits for me at home, problem is I'm never home.
 
iPhone 6 Plus: 736 x 414 = 304704 points
iPad mini: 1024 x 768 = 423936 points

423936 / 304704 = 40% more points = 40% more content on the screen.

Where 'points' are the logical points available, and determines how 'much' you can actually see. More pixels just makes things smoother.

I was under the impression that the 6 Plus was 1920 x 1080. In any case, in my opinion the difference between a 5.5 inch screen and a 7 inch screen is negligible and I wouldn't personally buy both sizes. I mean, you like what you like, but I couldn't imagine owning both a 6 Plus and a Mini. Just my 2 cents.
 
How good would have been a new mini with air's 2 internals, screen and thinness... it is not far fetched to think it would outsell the air 2 imo.
 
My point was that's exactly what logical points *take into account*, what's the point in logical pixels if not to abstract physical pixel size/screen size?

Ok we need to back up for a second. Logical pixels abstract the number of physical pixels but do not abstract the screen size. The iPad mini with retina displays much more content than just 40 percent more of the iPhone 6 plus. The logical pixels of the iPad line have no relationship to the iPhone. They are simply based arbitrarily off the original physical pixel resolutions of the first iPhone and iPad.

My point being that the iPad is capable of displaying much more information than the iPhone, mostly based on the physical screen area. Relating them to each other based on their logical pixel ratios does not make sense.
 
I was under the impression that the 6 Plus was 1920 x 1080. In any case, in my opinion the difference between a 5.5 inch screen and a 7 inch screen is negligible and I wouldn't personally buy both sizes. I mean, you like what you like, but I couldn't imagine owning both a 6 Plus and a Mini. Just my 2 cents.

You'e quoting the physical pixels. This page explains it well: http://www.paintcodeapp.com/news/iphone-6-screens-demystified
 
The recent announcement of the iPad mini 3 was unarguably underwhelming.

The iPad Air received a sizable overhaul in terms of specs and a slight design change, whereas the iPad mini remained virtually unchanged save for TouchID, support for AppleSIM, a slightly different shape of the rear camera, and lastly, a gold color option.

A couple facts:

1. This is the weakest update that the iPad mini product line has ever been given.

2. The iPad mini was first introduced two years ago to combat a then-growing market of 7.0" to 8.4" tablets, which, today, seems to be shrinking in terms of popularity.

3. The rise of 5.5" and larger Phablets appears to be successfully cannibalizing said market for 7.0 to 8.4" tablets.

4. Case in point (for points 2 and 3) Google's current Nexus line-up; the Nexus 7 (Google's long-standing competitor to the iPad mini as well as the iPad mini's closest competition) was completely discontinued in favor of a Nexus line-up featuring a 5.9" Phablet and a 8.9" Tablet (more closely set to compete with the iPad Air 2 instead).

5. Amazon appears to be putting most of their strength behind larger Kindle Fire tablets (rather than ones more close to the iPad mini's size).

6. The iPhone 6 Plus has many features that would render owning an iPad mini pointless for most; plus it has several tech features (faster processor, better camera, 802.11ac, etc.) that Apple didn't give the iPad mini 3

Given these observations, what do you guys think is in store for the iPad mini product line? What about the 7.0" to 8.4" tablet market at large?

Smaller tablets are more popular than ever:

386858-idc-tablet-market-share-by-size.jpg


My theory on the Mini is that Apple have a big update waiting but cannot manufacture enough A8 SoCs until they catch up with iPhone demand. Thus they glued a TouchID on the old one, called it a "Mini 3", and in 6-8 months the real update will arrive with a display as good or better than that of the the Air 2.

If that's not the case, then Apple should just terminate the iPad Mini. It tarnishes Apple's image, ruins the iPad reputation, and makes a joke of the "Retina" display branding. Frankly it is an insult to consumers and Apple have no excuse to be pushing such a pathetic display on anyone in 2014.
 
iPhone 6 Plus: 736 x 414 = 304704 points
iPad mini: 1024 x 768 = 423936 points

423936 / 304704 = 40% more points = 40% more content on the screen.

Where 'points' are the logical points available, and determines how 'much' you can actually see. More pixels just makes things smoother.

The points only account for the space for UX elements and icons. The space for content is mostly determined by the physical size of the display:

iPhone 6: 60.9 cm2
iPhone 6+: 83.4 cm2
iPad Mini: 193.2 cm2
iPad Air: 291.3 cm2

The Mini has 2.3 times as much area as the 6+! Compare that to the Air being only 1.5 times the area of the Mini, and the 6+ being 1.4 x the area of the 6. Notice the pattern?

The iPad Mini even has 1.36 times the area of a 7" tablet! The idea that a 6+ can replace a Mini is flat-out absurd.

Apple chose the perfect size for the Mini. If only they would make it equal to the Air in every respect save screen size, it would dominate the midrange tablet market.
 
The points only account for the space for UX elements and icons. The space for content is mostly determined by the physical size of the display:



iPhone 6: 60.9 cm2

iPhone 6+: 83.4 cm2

iPad Mini: 193.2 cm2

iPad Air: 291.3 cm2



The Mini has 2.3 times as much area as the 6+! Compare that to the Air being only 1.5 times the area of the Mini, and the 6+ being 1.4 x the area of the 6. Notice the pattern?



The iPad Mini even has 1.36 times the area of a 7" tablet! The idea that a 6+ can replace a Mini is flat-out absurd.



Apple chose the perfect size for the Mini. If only they would make it equal to the Air in every respect save screen size, it would dominate the midrange tablet market.


....only for those who bought a mini and didn't really need one. I have a 6+ and it's no way near as convenient as my nexus 7 for reading.
 
Apple will keep the mini at least 1+ generations behind the iPhone plus.

In the fall of 2015, the mini will get an A8 when the iPhones get an A9.

And this assertion of yours is based on...?

Since it's been given a total of two updates, this isn't saying much. :)



While I agree that the "improvements" in the Mini 3 aren't worth more than a $20 premium over the rMini, saying that this is the weakest update the line has ever seen makes it seem like the Mini got years of great updates and suddenly this one dropped the ball. The Mini received exactly one great update, from Mini 1 to rMini. There haven't been enough released of the Mini to suggest a pattern yet.

Don't read to much into this. Yeah the 3rd model is old, but so was the 1st. The second was current only because they had to go retina and retina needed the better hw for it not to suck. This isn't a lack of love problem, it's a lack of money problem. An air 2 quality mini would cost near as much as an air 2 to make but since smaller must be cheaper, the margins were to small. Mini will be back with an a8 next year, when the air 3 gets an a9.

How misleading. :rolleyes:
It would be more reasonable to say it's worse than the previous and only other update. The refresh it received last year was much more than people were expecting.

People must have forgotten that a whole two hardware revisions ago it was using an A5.


I count all three releases of iPad mini. The first one was revolutionary as it was the first of its kind. Yes, it was one generation of processor technology behind just as today's model is now, but the whole thing was new and it sported tons of other features that were new to the iPad family at large. The second generation gave it retina, and put it on par to the latest iPhone and only a hair behind the iPad Air (which had a slightly faster variant of A7 than the second gen iPad mini and iPhone 5s). That was a bump in specs that was almost as significant as the original introduction. Now, at the third generation, it seems that such enthusiasm on Apple's part is all but dead. The iPad mini 3 was an afterthought, both in terms of how much keynote time it had as well as what there was to even say about it. It's literally the same device as the second generation, save for TouchID, a damn-near useless NFC chip and the option to buy it in gold.

So yes, while it is only the second update, it's the third release. Releases one and two were met with a lot of fanfare and excitement, both on Apple's part as well as the fans'/customers' parts. Release three might as well not have happened.

Again, I pose this question because the iPad mini 3 was launched one day after the chief competitor to the iPad mini line, namely the Nexus 7 (arguably the most successful "Nexus" product that Google has ever released as well as arguably the most viable iPad mini competitor product) was discontinued in favor of something much closer to the iPad Air's range. Google doesn't just discontinue its most popular Nexus product in favor of nothing and Apple doesn't just decide to hold back on one hell of an update to "its most best selling iPad".

In fact, arguably, if the iPad mini was the best selling iPad, it would make sense for Apple to keep it as current as possible, lest they release an update to it that unanimously has reviewers and customers alike balk at how lame of an update it has.

All these theories about Apple crippling & ultimately doing away with the iPad mini because it canabalizes the iphone 6 plus are absolutely ridiculous! Seriously. Was this update a weak one compared to the iPad Air 2? Yes. But if anything it was to push more people to the more expensive iPad Air and not to the iphone 6 plus. The mini was outselling the air.

People will buy an ipad even if they have an iphone. Some will want the air. And some will want the mini.

Trust me, the iPad mini is here to stay. And it'll get all the features the iPad Air 2 just got. It may even get them in a mid year update. But it will get them. People love the mini.

What sense does it make to cripple your best selling product so that you can gamble to sell your second best selling product even easier? That's not Apple's style at all. Hell, their best selling Mac has always been the 13" MacBook Pro. Not only does that machine get timely updates, but they have taken two years to gently handle the transition to retina (a transition that took half the time with the 15" model). I appreciate that Apple sees the first and second generation iPad minis as affordable gateways to the iPad family, but introducing an underwhelming third generation model that more or less has nothing to offer those torn between it and the second generation (for the one storage capacity that is common between them), isn't necessary.

i think the weak mini update is just because of a lack of resources.

The only resources that it would've needed to be a better update is an A8 chip like the ones found in the 6/6 Plus, and the chips/resources for 802.11ac w/ MIMO. They could've taken the camera from the iPhone 6 (and not even the 6 Plus) and that would've been sufficient. Somehow I have a feeling that these are not the most scarce components.

Smaller tablets are more popular than ever:

Image

My theory on the Mini is that Apple have a big update waiting but cannot manufacture enough A8 SoCs until they catch up with iPhone demand. Thus they glued a TouchID on the old one, called it a "Mini 3", and in 6-8 months the real update will arrive with a display as good or better than that of the the Air 2.

If that's not the case, then Apple should just terminate the iPad Mini. It tarnishes Apple's image, ruins the iPad reputation, and makes a joke of the "Retina" display branding. Frankly it is an insult to consumers and Apple have no excuse to be pushing such a pathetic display on anyone in 2014.

I believe that chart when it shows 7.0"-8.4" tablets in 2011 (more or less non-existent) and 2013 (which is the first full year of iPad mini, Nexus 7, and Kindle Fire), but its projections on 2017 are meaningless without data from 2014. I believe a change occurred at some point between late 2013 and now and that, as a result of that change, we now have no more Nexus 7, we have the iPad mini obviously being pushed as a budget model that pales in comparison to the iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, and iPad Air. The only thing the iPad mini 3 has going for it is that it is still better to use than whatever Kindle Fire tablets are comparable. Though, I think that even Amazon is putting its focus on the 8.9" and larger range and not so much the 7.0" to 8.4" range.

Again, manufacturers seem to be steering away from that range, at least in terms of how much care and focus they put into engineering for it.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.