Before I get into replying to your post(s), I'd like to share with you what a quick Google search has provided. I'd also like to politely remind you that you are largely arguing a difference of opinion with me as I am with you and that neither of our opinions within themselves are wrong. However, on top of that, I am arguing that my opinion is in the majority and yours is in the minority and if there's anything that modern civilization and society have shown is that majority rules. That being said, I give you the following:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/09/a-slide-into-obsolescence-ios-8-on-the-ipad-2/
http://www.gottabemobile.com/2014/10/23/verizon-galaxy-note-4-release-date-info/ (not sure why it has that link title and URL)
http://bgr.com/2014/09/17/iphone-4s-and-ipad-2-ios-8-update/
http://tabtimes.com/let-not-kid-ourselves-ipad-2-dead-man-walking-ios-7-11611/
http://www.cultofmac.com/303844/got-iphone-4s-ipad-2-never-upgrade-ios-7/
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/11/20/ios-8-1-1-iphone-4s-ipad-2-test/
http://www.geek.com/apple/updating-your-ipad-2-or-iphone-4s-to-ios-8-just-say-no-1604771/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ipad/comments/2l94vq/ios_8_on_ipad_mini_1st_gen/
http://gizmodo.com/ios-8-upgrade-guide-everything-you-need-for-a-happy-up-1635527417
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/09/ios-8-thoroughly-reviewed/11/#performance
http://lifehacker.com/how-ios-8-1-1-affects-performance-on-older-devices-1661159736
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/1...and-ipad-2-a-little-faster-kind-of-sometimes/
You're not alone in your opinion that 8.1.2 performs adequately on A5 devices. And, for the record, I never said you were. Some of these links help suggest that. However, they also suggest that, as I stated again and again, your opinion is that of the minority and that the majority of everyone views the iOS 8 for the iPad 2 and iPhone 4S (with respects to both performance and trends) in the exact same manner as iOS 7 on the iPhone 4. The fact that the iPod touch sold is the most current and top of the line iPod sold doesn't mean anything, especially when Apple is VERY CLEARLY moving to a business model with music that favors streaming and only supports locally stored portable music in the limited capacities that it does with the iPhone and the iPad. It's not what you want, and it's certainly not what I want, but we are the minority. It's a major major bummer, but you're blind if you can't see that coming.
Maybe that is your experience but its certainly not mine. At Uni every day I see far more iPad 2s then iPad Airs and Air 2s. While working I support people with iPad 2s more than almost any other iPad.
Consider that the average university student is massively in debt and can only really afford an older tablet. Frankly, I think the iPod touch is insanely useful and perfectly so on a college campus where WiFi is everywhere. That being said, so are smartphones and most non-technology enthusiasts at least own a cheap Smartphone that serves every need they could possibly have for a fifth generation iPod touch.
Yet it is still perfectly usable, unlike if it was stranded on iOS 6 or 7.
You're employment of linguistics in this thread is inconsistent. "Usable" and "Viable" are two different concepts. You're using the former to mean the latter. Usable refers to how well the device actually performs. Viable refers to whether or not it can function with up to date security updates and application compatibility.
Given this, yes, iOS 8.1.2 makes an iPad 2 still viable and current with the latest updates and app compatibility (for apps that don't require a newer iPad anyway). This was never something that I was to argue.
It, however, reduces usability as is indicated by the plethora of links I just pasted here.
As for your concern about a device being left in the cold without security updates, I'd like to point out the practice that Apple employed with the iPhone 3GS and the fourth generation iPod touch around the time last year when all of the long-standing security holes to early versions of iOS 7 and all versions of iOS 6 and earlier had surfaced (i.e. Apple issued special versions of iOS 6 past 6.1.3 for those devices). If they were critical enough, Apple would issue device-specific security updates for the previous OS for those devices. Given how many people own A5 devices, I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T do this next year (unless the bugs found next year are minor, in which case, they might not bother as they haven't yet done so with iPhone 4 yet this year).
People were still buying them. Maceumours or Apple-insider or 9to5 Mac ran an article on it. 10 percent were buying it or something, which is pretty impressive given it was not much cheaper than the iPad Air. if people stopped buying them it was obviously due to the high pricing for an older product, rather than usability. In October 2013 it made up 22 percent of iPads sold.
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/01/20/ipad-2-sales-drop/
This article would suggest that the success of the iPad 2 dropped following the announcement of the iPad Air and second generation iPad mini and it makes total sense.
This has nothing to do with my iPad. Of Course I'd love another update, its more about the fact that they sell 2 A5 devices at the moment.
Apple has discontinued support for an iOS device sold in January with the update unveiled at that year's WWDC, while discontinuing sale of that product that May. You seem to place weight on the following facts:
A. Said model was a member of the iPod touch family and that the precedent has never been set with a member of the iPad mini family:
- (The iPad mini family is newer and, as the severe lack of attention in this past update combined with decreased market interest [in the face of successful phablets] the discontinuation of many competitor products, should not be considered any more "premium" of an iOS device product line than the iPod touch product line was in 2013)
B. Said iPod touch was discontinued and OS support dropped because there was a newer iPod touch in place that was better than it
- (…or because it was three years old, couldn't support new features and APIs that Apple had in the iOS pipeline, and it ran like crap. Flash forward to today and the same thing is just as likely. The only difference today is that interest in "iPods" has declined substantially as is evidenced by publicly posted figures by Apple. The iPod touch is not exempt from this. Also, Apple has long held the argument that the iPhone is the ultimate iPod and its true successor. I don't personally agree with that 100%, but my opinion here doesn't matter and neither does yours, sadly.)
C. The iPod touch is the most full-featured iPod that Apple makes. If support is dropped, then they must make a new one to fill the void
- (Again, "declining industry", "declining interest". Making a 64GB or 128GB iPod nano and calling it a day [or making the 3.5" iPod I suggested earlier in the thread] would rectify that void handily. It wouldn't be the same, and I still wouldn't be as happy with it, but given the "declining" state of the iPod line and market, Apple dropping support and discontinuing products isn't anywhere near a stretch. Case-in-point: the iPod classic; a product that had as much, if not far more of a cult following than the iPod touch.)
D. Apple has never dropped support for an iPad mini that it ships the year it still ships it
(Apple did that with the iPod touch line when it was about as prevalent and respected of a product line in Apple's lineup as the iPad mini is today. It's not that far of a stretch and not that unfathomable, especially considering the target market demographic that the first generation iPad mini is explicitly catering to.)
This being said, before you repeat your rhetoric. Read what I write here and address what I write, otherwise you're repeating yourself and wasting both of our time.
I do understand how the industry works, you seem to ignore me when I show the trends that would suggest that A5 devices would be supported.
You've only spoken of your observations and a couple of YouTube videos that showcase the beta for an Operating System that you have yet to claim that you've run yourself and that I use on the daily trying to sell me on performance improvements from the current OS that I, myself, do not see. That's hardly showing trends. At the very least, I'm citing articles and user accounts that are far more prevalent as well as the obvious fact that the iPad 2/iPhone 4s/iPod touch 5th Gen/iPad mini first gen are all going down the same path that the iPhone 4 did. If you'd like, I can send you many more articles that, based on observations and research, support the idea that A5 support is going away soon.
Apple in particular (Besides on one occasion) works by giving their devices 1 year of life support after discontinuation.
They even used to put in the EULA that devices would be guaranteed at least one new major iOS release. Since they have clearly stopped this practice in the past, the idea that they might do so again, especially given commonly perceived performance issues, is not at all out of the question.
It also does not adhere to patterns of 'x device only gets x number of updates.
I never said they did. You really need to do a better job of reading what you're replying to as you only further waste our time when you don't.
Those patterns are patterns that tend to happen based on the patterns in hardware and software advancement. The iPod touch line just happens to follow the "x device only gets x number of updates" patterns more consistently (as it has yet to break that pattern with any given generation where both the iPad/iPad Air product line and the iPhone line have each broken or changed these trends at least once).
The two types of patterns do have further correlation, however, it gets confusing given the A5X variant and the fact that product lines were not all advanced around the same time (a la the A4 processor being distributed across iPad, iPod touch and iPhone lines all in the same calendar year). Also the A6 and A6X being introduced more than a year after the original introduction of A5 further adds complication. But make no mistake, the hardware and software advancement patterns is the more important one and the "x processor gets x updates" patterns, while more confusing and seemingly inconsistent, do serve to support this.
It seems to be that they support devices on a combination of installed user base, device capability and how long since discontinuation. Right now the A5 wins on 2/3 (Installed user base and time since discontinuation).
Device compatibility is the only important factor here, especially with technology that is either so old or priced so inexpensively (relative to the products they sell with more modern processing power).
The A5 is too old for further platform development; the writing is on the wall and everyone else sees it but you. The A5 devices still being sold (AppleTV excluded) are all sold at lame-duck prices that wouldn't surprise anyone savvy enough to know about update support if support was dropped this calendar year.
Your defense is not overly solid. Basing your argument on your personal experience, while I am basing mine on the experience of multiple people.
We're both basing our arguments on our respective personal experiences and the experiences of the people we know. This goes back to you not reading what you're arguing against (specifically mentioning my sampling pool of over 3000 people). That said, the only difference here is that there are articles and threads on the internet that support my point and not yours.
Perhaps the iPod Touch does not improve with iOS 8.2 but the iPad 2 and iPhone 4S do?
How would that make any sense at all?
The iPhone 4S and the fifth generation iPod touch use the same exact CPU (800MHz A5 with 512MB of RAM and the same graphics cores) as does the First generation iPad mini and the iPad 2 (1GHz A5 with 512MB of RAM). Both sets of devices even out in performance (if not slightly in favor of the touch/4S due to the fewer amount of pixels that have to be output on the smaller devices) and that's why your "Apple has never dropped support for all devices of a given processor generation" argument is invalid; it's because Apple has never had so many devices that each have similar processing power.
Again a huge amount of assumption here. If it did not matter to anyone anymore there would be no iPod Touch 5 for sale.
I was exaggerating, though it IS true that it has a very small and already diminishing user base (as has been evidenced by multiple Apple Earnings calls in recent history), which last I checked wasn't the sign of a product line that is apt to receive updates or continued support. I said that it matters to a steadily decreasing amount of people that was already in the minority of sales to begin with. While I'm sure a lot of this is self-fulfilling on Apple's part (not updating your innards of your product does encourage people to look to the more powerful iPhone line to satisfy those needs), I think the surge of streaming music popularity is also somewhat to blame as well.
But yes, they are not selling well because not many people are buying them and that's not unique to the iPod touch, but rather iPods as a whole and standalone music players as a whole.
Trolls tend to make nonsense assumptions (i.e. "You hate A5 so much") especially without reading the replies that the person they're trolling are making because having an actual debate where both sides process the responses of the other and react accordingly is besides the point. You are failing to read at least half of what I write (I know its long, but it gets longer when I have to keep repeating the same ten things over and over and over because you keep repeating yourself instead of further shooting down my responses as per debate norms.)
Also, you don't really know what you're talking about in some areas.
Really, it's not that far-fetched of a stretch
I would never suggest the A5 is not old. It is. But it is a technology that Apple has embraced well into this year and thus have a responsibility to support. In regards to my user name, I collect older Macintoshes as a hobby. Its got nothing to do with my perceptions of technology.
Your use of the word "embraced" is questionable. They're keeping it around for the iPad mini to compete with the fact that you can buy an Android tablet of similar power and capability for $200. That doesn't mean that they're going to keep supporting it. That means that they wish to attract lower budget customers who care more about the fact that it's an iPad and it's made by Apple than they do about how long they're going to be supported on the latest version of iOS. That's just simple marketing and economics right there. It's not going to get a full year of support and it will be treated like the A4 iPod touches were in 2013. I'd bet you a beer and lunch on it.
Thankyou!! This is what many people are saying to me, that iOS 8 is not too different to iOS 7!
In terms of looks, no, the two are not that different at all. In terms of performance, the difference is noticeable, even if you're in the minority of users that don't believe that it is. Also, the person you are replying to admits to being a light user. Statistically, light users are the last to feel how slow a new OS runs on an older machine. That should go without saying, but it case it doesn't, you ought to consider it because that's facts right there.
Also your case is a good example of how software updates have allowed the iPad 2 to continue to be useful for people, as you've been able to update so that you can continue to use the apps you want.
Again, linguistics fail right here. The way you write that sentence implies that Apple put out the software updates so that the apps may run on them and that they are a part of the solution rather than at the root of the problem.
A better way to write the phrase in bold would be "how software updates have become required to receive app updates" as that more accurately depicts what's really going on here; namely that Apple is incentivizing developers to only support the latest OS and thusly incentivizing users to be on the latest one or else face a lack of App updates.
