Thanks for the post Wildwobby. It cleared up some things for me.
Although, it sounds like there's a chipset/platform misconception.
Although, it sounds like there's a chipset/platform misconception.
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The giant penryn/santa rosa/merom/montevina misconception
- Thread starter wildwobby
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Everybody is harping on about 64bit this and 64bit that. Unless you are using software that has been specifically architected to use 64bit then you're not going to get any improvement because you're still bound by the 32 bit laws of memory = 4Gb max !!! 64bit gives you massive speed improvements when dealing with +4gb data - especially when multi threading it.
Also, note that even using the same software architected in 64bit mode compared to 32bit mode has a memory footprint increase... even using the same database and/or file...
I can't thank you enough for posting this thread. I was getting really confused about everything!
As well as the current rev. MacBook Pros, don't the current rev. MacBooks use the Santa Rosa chipset/Centrino platform too?
Great post! It's full of very interesting, very clarifying knowledge! And any misconceptions seem to be cleared up in the comments afterward. Thanks go to everyone with positive input.
Actually if DDR3 RAM in Montevina really matches FSB's 1066Mhz it is a huge difference, at least from my view. We currently have FSB faster(800mhz) than RAM speed(667) which is.. stupid? It's like having a ferrari with a limited speed 250km/h.
Whenwill regain the good old days when the processors used on the Macs were so powerful that even with "slower clock speed ratings" they were the fastest on consumers personal computers...
I hope that Intel releases some new chips specially designed for
While Apple at some time had machines that performed better at a lower clock speed than PCs at a higher clock speed, that was due to a difference in CPU architectures (PPC vs. x86). Clock speeds are only comparable within a given CPU architecture, which is why even between Pentium4 and Core architectures clock speed comparisons are essentially useless.
However, Apple switched, among other reasons, to intel EXACTLY because they don't want to be part of the clock speed and who's faster rat race.
By using the same parts, Apple knows they are always competitive with the rest of the PC industry, meaning they are within negligible margins faster or slower than the rest, and the useless "who's faster, Mac or PC" debates will come to an end.
Why is it important that these debates come to an end? Because Apple is not targeting overclocker hacker kiddies, but normal computer users, and Apple's advantage isn't if they are 5% faster for two months only to be 3% slower after that until they have yet another new machine. Apple's advantage is Mac OS X vs. M$ or Linux.
Apple is a software company that uses its hardware as a copy protection dongle. Apple, even the iPhone, competes on the software basis. A little bit of good industrial design is thrown in for good measure and as eye candy, but the internal guts are about as unimportant to the Apple platform as could be.
rcfa
spot on!
A lot of ppl miss this point. Even the same C2D CPU in two different machine (PC) with different motherboard, brand of RAM, and HD will perform differently. Apple controls all that, pick their components that are 100% compatible hence making sure their OS will get the maximum performance.
Wow - Those are some very TRUE words. I find it so annoying that the average mac "enthusiast" cant just come to grips w/ the fact that Intel has a roadmap... and it will be followed...
Okay, Im having a delimma.
So Montevina is going to be the successor of SantaRosa. My problem is, is it worth it to wait for Montevina?
So far I know they are going to be X4500 (which is claimed to be 2X faster then X3100). A higher FSB and Cache.
The current Penryn chip on the MB has 3mb Cache compared with the previous Merom 4mb cache.
Since the new MB Penryn has a lower cache but higher GHz it wont be able to multitask as good as a 4mb cache am I right?
I cant decide if I should buy now or suffer for 1 month for Montevina update (my college will start at May, and Montevina is releasing around June right?).
Basically Im going to use the notebook for website designing, photoshop, programming, SolidWorks, and college work. So is it worth to wait for Montevina? or I should just get the MB now and enjoy?
Take not that mostlikely Im going to install VMWare Fusion.
So Montevina is going to be the successor of SantaRosa. My problem is, is it worth it to wait for Montevina?
So far I know they are going to be X4500 (which is claimed to be 2X faster then X3100). A higher FSB and Cache.
The current Penryn chip on the MB has 3mb Cache compared with the previous Merom 4mb cache.
Since the new MB Penryn has a lower cache but higher GHz it wont be able to multitask as good as a 4mb cache am I right?
I cant decide if I should buy now or suffer for 1 month for Montevina update (my college will start at May, and Montevina is releasing around June right?).
Basically Im going to use the notebook for website designing, photoshop, programming, SolidWorks, and college work. So is it worth to wait for Montevina? or I should just get the MB now and enjoy?
Take not that mostlikely Im going to install VMWare Fusion.
the release is in june.
but t doesn't follow that the new MBP will be released at the same time .
so prepare or a long wait
Thats partially true because the penryn does make it a bit cooler to run but there's a reason why its cooler because you can add more features and upgrades and to me the new penryn mbp right now are only a incomplete *tick* part of the upgrade. When I say incomplete, Montevina is the true penryn upgrade with a 1066mhz frontside bus and 800mhz RAM, that's a HUGE difference in speed and memory compared to the current Merom and Penryn mbp.
Man a 1066mhz mbp, that's about the same bus size as the older 2.66ghz mac pro! Bus size means everything and yes size matters, ALOT.
And I was terribly disappointed since I had the funds to sell my 2.4ghz SR model to buy the newer penryn and that the current penryn models have only 800mhz frontside bus and the same old 667mhz RAM (which is why it performs exactly as the previous version mbp).
tell us the software you're using right now.
and we'll tell you if what you're waiting for is " truly " justified.
if you're into hardcore video editing, nothing can substitute a MacPRO.
you'll only be disappointed.
I mean for the current penryn as to the SR mbp, using programs such as aperture and motion 2 and 3 the highest % in speed is anywhere from 16-25% gain (which is mostly due to the .2mhz more on the penryn side and many of you think .2 is nothing but think about it .2x2 .4 thats a total of 400mhz and that does make somewhat of a difference. This is from barefeats.com but if you notice that they compared a 2.4ghz SR model with a 2.6ghz penryn mbp and doesnt make any sense because they should have compared the older 2.6ghz version to the newer penryn 2.6ghz and I bet the gain would be about 5-8% at best which in the real world wouldnt see any difference.
http://www.barefeats.com/mbpp01.html
Once the montevina comes out you WILL see a huge difference even before the sse4 instruction sets are written for the programs and when sse4 are implemented montevina will have that much more of an advantage.
Not to mention that they added 512mb vram on the nvidia 8600m gt card which doesnt make any difference since it still uses a 128-bit wide bandwidth (notice that barefeats also states the more vram had absolutely no impact on games). Look for the next gpu update that will fully utilize the 512mb vram with a 256-bit wide bandwidth card, 1066mhz frontside bus, 800mhz RAM. (now that's a huge difference).
I'm just saying that if you bought the current penry mbp its still a great and wonderful machine but if you waited over the SR mbp then it was just a waste of time and the montevina is the one that should have been waited for. (thats all I'm saying).
Yea of course nothing can compare to the mac pro (its a desktop for god's sake) but that 1066mhz would sure perform nicely! Also of course the desktop still has the bigger hd's which is alot faster as well and not to mention the xeon's are much faster. But its nice to see a laptop coming close to in specs as the mac pro.
Shiet if a the next macbook pro performs just a bit behind the previous gen 2.66ghz mac pro, that would be f*ckin awesome.
Nice post.
Just to make a clarification. Centrino is just a MARKETING term. It doesn't signify anything. Also the difference between Centrino and Centrino 2 is the former requires an Intel processor, chipset, and wireless, while the latter only requires the Intel processor and chip; the wireless can be any brand.
thanks! i agree with you on this!
there was a guy at the other forum who 's planning to sell his MAcPRO and just use the current MBP..
he was very disappointed about the time he has to wait to finish his video convertion..
thanks! i agree with you on this!
there was a guy at the other forum who 's planning to sell his MAcPRO and just use the current MBP..
he was very disappointed about the time he has to wait to finish his video convertion..
Montevina could speed up that wait
So will Montevina/Penryn support DDR3 RAM, and will Apple sell that style of RAM in their products?
I planned on buying a MacBook around June/July because I will actually be able to afford one then.
Could anyone give a nice little summary about the advantages of Montevina/Penryn over Santa Rosa/Penryn or vice versa?
I planned on buying a MacBook around June/July because I will actually be able to afford one then.
Could anyone give a nice little summary about the advantages of Montevina/Penryn over Santa Rosa/Penryn or vice versa?
Just to let you know, the information we have on Nehalem isn't the best yet. We've been told anywhere from late 08 (actually the server grade first) to mid 2009. Calpella, which is for Nehalem, also comes out around mid 2009. We have no confirmation as to whether or not montevina even supports Nehalem processors (especially since of their quickpath tech).
So, if you are serious about waiting for Nehalem, you are serious about waiting until Summer 09.
So, if you are serious about waiting for Nehalem, you are serious about waiting until Summer 09.