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The giant penryn/santa rosa/merom/montevina misconception
- Thread starter wildwobby
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Probably putting in X9800 with an unlocked multiplier, I'd see that with modified cooling which might change the insides a bit. Otherwise I don't see any need or reason to change this kick button design.
Everybody is harping on about 64bit this and 64bit that. Unless you are using software that has been specifically architected to use 64bit then you're not going to get any improvement because you're still bound by the 32 bit laws of memory = 4Gb max !!! 64bit gives you massive speed improvements when dealing with +4gb data - especially when multi threading it.
Also, note that even using the same software architected in 64bit mode compared to 32bit mode has a memory footprint increase... even using the same database and/or file...
Actually the maximum for x86 is about 3.5GB because of memory addressing issues.
As with x64, well the OS is 64-bit, so is half the other binary applications you can buy and probably the more important ones like Office, Adobe stuff, VMWare, etc.
Seeing as this thread has been rated so high the OP post should be edited with correct information regarding the difference between chipsets and platforms. None of the socalled chipsets are chipsets, they are platforms utilizing different chipsets.
Montevina could speed up that wait
I doubt so, I used to be a PC user and remember having to shell out top dollar for the "latest DDR2" memory as well as paying premiums for that "revolutionarily new Intel chipset with a faster Front Side Bus". In retrospect it is all nonsense.
If I can afford to wait, sure, why not.
But to be honest, I would wait just so I can buy the last generation of processors and memory at cheaper price. Paying twice as much for the "latest XXX Mhz" of memory has never paid of during my gaming days, that is for sure.
It is all hype.
well that must have been a while back but technology is a bit different these days and certainly frontside bus of difference of 1066mhz as to 800mhz is a HUGE difference. Sure ddr2 compared to ddr3 you wont notice much on the gpu/ram side on games. And your mainly comparing a gpu/ram specs as a gamer and not the overal usage of the whole osx. And dont forget windows cant even address more than 3.5 gb of ram and does a poor job doing so.
Just try encoding videos and render effects on a imac as to a mac pro with the same amount of ram and tell me you dont see a difference. Honestly gaming and real computing usage is two totally different things.
Montevina Homenetwork Improvements.
My reason for holding off for the Monetvina will not be for speed as much as the alleged improvement in home networking. A 5% increase for me would be a major improvement.
My reason for holding off for the Monetvina will not be for speed as much as the alleged improvement in home networking. A 5% increase for me would be a major improvement.
People involved in professional video and such are some of the few who may really realize a performance gain. The fact is, for what MOST average computer users do (internet stuff, iPhoto, music/iTunes, YouTube, the occasional family video, maybe PowerPoint and lots of word processing for work) computers of 3 years ago are more than sufficient. For the average user, games are the ONLY thing that will come close to taxing modern computer equipment. The fact you need a better "rig" for the hottest games than you do for high-powered scientific applications is, to me, ludicrous, and one reason I have moved largely to consoles, but that's for another post.
The fact is, for most users, Montevina won't mean too much. Nehalem, the next CPU, will be the big upgrade. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple waits for Nehalem to do a redesign too. I just don't think performance wise the June update (if there is one) will be all that great for the vast majority of users.
As an aside, thank you to the OP for this post. I get SO tired of all the Macolytes saying "I upgraded from my SR MBP to Penryn." No, you didn't. You still have Santa Rosa. You upgraded from MEROM to Penryn.
Im sorry I just had to say something, that most users of just surfing the net, itunes, mail users are mostly macbook users. Remember that most mbp users are audio/video philes and im an intermediate user at best. Encoding 1080p/720p videos and extracting files in the background while multitasking(heavy web browsing and moving big files around).
I know you can't compare a core 2 duo mobile against a xeon but with a faster frontside bus higher clocked cpu, its getting close. I would love to replace my current mbp and mac pro with 1 single mbp such as montevina speced with a frontside bus of 1066mhz and 800mhz 4gb ram.
If you were in the market for a new mbp the current penryn mbp is great, a convenient upgrade, but if you jumped from a sr mbp to a penryn I think you got gyped. Its the exact mbp just a shrink to 45nm and sse4 instruction set. Montevina will have all of that plus the 1066mhz fsb, 800mhz ram that fully utilize of why they shrunk it to a 45nm processor. Nehalem will be similar upgrade as the penryn was to the sr mbp(first iteration aka tick). Then the 2nd iteration of nehalem would be compared as to the montevina upgrade (higher clock,higher fsb, maybe even more ram).
Are you kidding?? Apple won't bother with montevina?? I'm surprised that apple bothered with penryn so early and if they waited the current penryn would be skipped update the mbp to the montevina and so on with the 2nd iteration of the nehalem as well.
That is just a minor refresh on the previous integrated graphics chip. So performance will be probably the same, or slightly better.
Its true the mbp was never a santa rosa platform to begin with and the chipset is a merom but I just call it an sr mbp to just distinguish the specific chipset. The mbp uses the same chipset that makes the santa rosa platform just it uses an atheros wifi card instead of the intel wifi.
People don't seem to learn from experience.
I will tell you what montevina meens:
A bit faster CPU (default 2.5ghz optional 2.8Ghz) a bit faster FSB who knows maybe 15-20% performance in some things.
A newer video card that is nothing more than an 8600gt on 65nm. Maybe 15-20% faster.
Blu-ray reader default, burner for $400-500
It will also meen lots of issues and bugs as it will be a new motherboard new, new videocard.
Now if they decide to redesign the case it will be even more bugs and issues.
I would never ever buy revision A of any new product and is not just apple I had problems with HP laptops (rev A) look at canon 1d mk3...
My experience with macbooks is this:
I will always go for the tic as what it meens is a minor revision and a stable platform already tested by million of users that got the toc before.
Example:
Got a last generation 17" Powerbook really nice machine super stable ( a bit slow)
Decided to replace it with a 15" CD MPB that was a mistake buggy stove that could fry eggs on. Luckily I was able to return it.
That was a toc redesign major revision.
waited until the C2D models came out got a 15" C2D mbp great machine no issues all problems from rev A solved.
Upgraded to a 17" C2D same thing a beautifull machine no issues.
That was a tic same hardware as rev A just a new CPU.
I've been following the SR laptops and they had their share of problems.
Same for mac air, new imacs (now old)
So I just got a 17" penryn with the HR Led screen and will not care what else comes for the next 2 years.
I do not deny that there will be improvements but I am sorry to say that people that want a gaming power house should not expect to be 1" thick.
Just get a 17" XPS with SLI and physx for less than the MBP and it will mop the floor with the MBP in games that you play in windows any way.
As for rendering if 20% improvement makes such a huge diff for you, you should be getting a mac pro for your work.
But hey if bench marks are your thing that sure montevina will be great.
Oh as a last point the only reason I updated my MBP was the high res led screen otherwise the performance of my old C2D 2.33Ghz and x1600 was more than enough for me.
The one thing I would like to see is 6GB of RAM. But hey I am getting 1 extra from 3 to 4 so can't complain
Just my 2 cents (well more like a jar full of them)
I will tell you what montevina meens:
A bit faster CPU (default 2.5ghz optional 2.8Ghz) a bit faster FSB who knows maybe 15-20% performance in some things.
A newer video card that is nothing more than an 8600gt on 65nm. Maybe 15-20% faster.
Blu-ray reader default, burner for $400-500
It will also meen lots of issues and bugs as it will be a new motherboard new, new videocard.
Now if they decide to redesign the case it will be even more bugs and issues.
I would never ever buy revision A of any new product and is not just apple I had problems with HP laptops (rev A) look at canon 1d mk3...
My experience with macbooks is this:
I will always go for the tic as what it meens is a minor revision and a stable platform already tested by million of users that got the toc before.
Example:
Got a last generation 17" Powerbook really nice machine super stable ( a bit slow)
Decided to replace it with a 15" CD MPB that was a mistake buggy stove that could fry eggs on. Luckily I was able to return it.
That was a toc redesign major revision.
waited until the C2D models came out got a 15" C2D mbp great machine no issues all problems from rev A solved.
Upgraded to a 17" C2D same thing a beautifull machine no issues.
That was a tic same hardware as rev A just a new CPU.
I've been following the SR laptops and they had their share of problems.
Same for mac air, new imacs (now old)
So I just got a 17" penryn with the HR Led screen and will not care what else comes for the next 2 years.
I do not deny that there will be improvements but I am sorry to say that people that want a gaming power house should not expect to be 1" thick.
Just get a 17" XPS with SLI and physx for less than the MBP and it will mop the floor with the MBP in games that you play in windows any way.
As for rendering if 20% improvement makes such a huge diff for you, you should be getting a mac pro for your work.
But hey if bench marks are your thing that sure montevina will be great.
Oh as a last point the only reason I updated my MBP was the high res led screen otherwise the performance of my old C2D 2.33Ghz and x1600 was more than enough for me.
The one thing I would like to see is 6GB of RAM. But hey I am getting 1 extra from 3 to 4 so can't complain
Just my 2 cents (well more like a jar full of them)
Dude, dont type like this:
Blah Blah Blah
blah blah blah
blaH blaH blaH
Its seriously annoying to read cause actually your post is very short, those spaces add up soo much space that it makes reading from fun to simply annoying, so never post like that again.
Good post by the way, I cant say that I agree with you completely, but I agree with some of your points.
Blah Blah Blah
blah blah blah
blaH blaH blaH
Its seriously annoying to read cause actually your post is very short, those spaces add up soo much space that it makes reading from fun to simply annoying, so never post like that again.
Good post by the way, I cant say that I agree with you completely, but I agree with some of your points.
From a technical standpoint, Montevina is going 'open' the communication lines in laptops. Right now things are still slow, (just what I feel) and things need to be opened up more, QuickPath Interconnects are going to help big time with internal I/O latencies, and hopefully open up bandwith to graphics etc...
In all honesty, all these questions of when the next MBP is coming is tiring. The best bet is to look at other manufacturers and see when they are planning and when their product refresh cycles are about to happen. Everyone just moved to Penryn, and will be the chip to get us threw the summer months, now come fall/holiday time the question will be...will Intel push everyone to move Montevina or wait until Jnauary/Feb 09 after the holidays and drop the penryns chips price down for the holiday buying market.
In my opinion its all up to Intel and what kind of pressure they put on the manufacturers and what plans they have to when to release a new processor (and I dont mean paper launch i mean acutally available in 'x' amount of quatities).
We shall see..ya never know what these guys are going to do next.
In all honesty, all these questions of when the next MBP is coming is tiring. The best bet is to look at other manufacturers and see when they are planning and when their product refresh cycles are about to happen. Everyone just moved to Penryn, and will be the chip to get us threw the summer months, now come fall/holiday time the question will be...will Intel push everyone to move Montevina or wait until Jnauary/Feb 09 after the holidays and drop the penryns chips price down for the holiday buying market.
In my opinion its all up to Intel and what kind of pressure they put on the manufacturers and what plans they have to when to release a new processor (and I dont mean paper launch i mean acutally available in 'x' amount of quatities).
We shall see..ya never know what these guys are going to do next.
Dude Intel is going to push HARD for other computer companies to switch to Montevina when it comes out. I've read about it quite a bit. Also Montevina is scheduled to come out 1st week of June and WWDC is 2nd week so there is a possibility there...
Guys I'm so happy that I decided to get a MacBook Pro now and not wait for that "Upgrade" in June. I will get a sr 2.2 macbook pro now for 2400 dollars (not in the US) than the penryn model (3200$) because as i read here there is not that big a difference performance wise just battery and a little bit of heat .. The time to upgrade your MacBook pro will be when the quad core processor comes out and that wont be this June.
You guys should just chill, enjoy your current MBP because it is a great piece of engineering and and stop trying to get 10% more performance, because you wont really need it.
Apple and Intel will always be upgrading and will always have new stuff planed out, but that doesn't mean you have to wait until the best one is out, because the best one now is the second best one in a week and 3 in 3 weeks and 100th in one year.
.. The time to upgrade your MacBook pro will be when the quad core processor comes out and that wont be this June. You guys should just chill, enjoy your current MBP because it is a great piece of engineering and and stop trying to get 10% more performance, because you wont really need it.
Apple and Intel will always be upgrading and will always have new stuff planed out, but that doesn't mean you have to wait until the best one is out, because the best one now is the second best one in a week and 3 in 3 weeks and 100th in one year.
Okay, I make it easy for you to understand:
Chipset : Montevina, SantaRosa
Processor : Penryn, Merom
Understand? Its really simple, like I said, Intel would be changing either chipset or processor in average of 6 months, so expect Apple to have minor changes around 6 months and maybe a big one after a year.
Chipset : a group of integrated circuits designed to work together (this is where you are going to see new integrated GPU and etc)
Processor : like its name, it processes your commands. Or in another word
you can call it laborer.
Chipset : Montevina, SantaRosa
Processor : Penryn, Merom
Understand? Its really simple, like I said, Intel would be changing either chipset or processor in average of 6 months, so expect Apple to have minor changes around 6 months and maybe a big one after a year.
Chipset : a group of integrated circuits designed to work together (this is where you are going to see new integrated GPU and etc)
Processor : like its name, it processes your commands. Or in another word
you can call it laborer
.
I know this has actually been said before but Montevina and Santa Rosa are actually platforms. The Santa Rosa platform uses an Intel Mobile GM965 chipset code named Crestline.Okay, I make it easy for you to understand:
Chipset : Montevina, SantaRosa
Processor : Penryn, Merom
Understand? Its really simple, like I said, Intel would be changing either chipset or processor in average of 6 months, so expect Apple to have minor changes around 6 months and maybe a big one after a year.
Chipset : a group of integrated circuits designed to work together (this is where you are going to see new integrated GPU and etc)
Processor : like its name, it processes your commands. Or in another word
you can call it laborer
The Montevina platform will use a GM45 chipset code named Cantiga.
Perhaps it would be easier to refer to these components using the model numbers/names rather than code names to avoid confusion.
From my opinion, codename make it much easier to remember just you must get used with the names,
I find it harder to communicate if we use code cause its pretty hard to remember, GM45? Whats that? Cantiga? Why the weird name?
You get what I mean right?
Its odd that Intel platform names is much easier and sounds better then their chipset or processor real name.
Oh yeah Montevina is rumoured to be Centrino 2.
I do see your point in a way but the proliferation of code names appears to cause confusion. Montevina will be the first platform in the Centrino 2 lineup - this has been confirmed by Intel.