iPhone 12 mini The iPhone Mini Failed (And That's Okay)

[Bruninho]

So much talk... I too do not trust Mr Kuo. If theres another Mini, with the same specs as the first one but better CPU and performance. I’ll pick one. If there is not... my next iPhone to replace an aging iPhone X is a 12 Mini when I have an opportunity to buy one. I don’t care if its an old model by the time I manage to buy one. I want a small form factor iPhone, similar to my beloved 4S. That was the PERFECT size for me. But I will take the smallest possible. I do not need a phone too big or with three cameras. All I need is power and performance within the smallest package possible. Besides, I never used my iPhone to take an photo. I don’t like to take photos, selfies or tiktoks. I don’t see it as a “professional camera” or whatever. I see it as a phone, a portable small computer. An iPod. But never as a camera.

I’d rather see Apple invest in something like Samsung Dex instead of cameras, bigger phones and new Memojis. They are so damn big now that soon the iPad Mini will be rebadged as “iPhone Pro Super Max”. come on... *facepalm*

 

[blairh]

Why would Apple rearrange their entire iPhone strategy just to push the mini?

Tim Cook has said a couple times the SE is critical in bringing in Android switchers and users in emerging markets, like India and Africa. It serves as a gateway device to the iPhone and App Store. I don't need to image a future lineup without the SE because it doesn't make any sense. That's like saying, "imagine a lineup without the 6.7" Pro Max, you'll see the 6.1" shine!"

You suggest Apple use a mega price cutting strategy on the mini. When was the last time you've seen Apple under Tim Cook do such a thing? Apple sells things based on merit, not price. If they have to pull the price lever, it means the product has failed.

They can still offer an SE-like device in their lineup in 2023. I never said otherwise. It just won't look anything like the current SE. Both the Mini and a low cost device can co-exist in 2023.

No, I am not suggesting Apple use a 'mega price cutting strategy on the Mini'. Why do you keep saying this? It's nonsense. The Mini starts at $700 now. Perhaps the 2021 Mini sells for $600. (Considering how poorly the Mini has sold so far, it would make sense to cut the price on the new model to push sales.) In 2022 you keep it in the lineup (no update) and cut $100 off the price and offer it for $500. In 2023 it remains in the lineup (again, no update from the 2021 model) with another $100 discount. That's $400. That's your new cheapest iPhone in the lineup. By then the only model with a notch.

Why can you still not understand that the iPhone Mini will look quite old and dated by the fall of 2023? Again, like I keep saying, that's 2.5 years from now. That's a long time in the smartphone world. Apple can offer such a device at a much cheaper price by then.

 

[Barbareren]

To me it’s still speculations until I see an official announcement. None of these ‘tech-insiders’ are clairvoyant - especially when it comes to Apple’s business strategies.

"Apple today reported its fiscal Q1 2021 earnings, which cover the final calendar quarter of 2020 and the holiday sales season. That means this is the first time we’re getting a real indication of how the new iPhone 12, iPhone 12 mini, iPhone 12 Pro, and iPhone 12 Pro Max are faring with consumers. As it turns out, they’re doing very well. Apple crossed $100 billion in quarterly revenue for the first time in the company’s history: it brought in $111.4 billion in total, with earnings per share of $1.68."

Obviously they can afford to take a chance on a “failing product”.

 

[JPack]

What do you mean by 'jumping over the iPhone X form factor'??

A 6.1" punch-hole iPhone in 2023 will cost more than an iPhone Mini in the lineup that same year.

Hole punch LCD is definitely cheaper than a notch cut OLED, especially since it won't need Face ID hardware.

 

[JPack]

They can still offer an SE-like device in their lineup in 2023. I never said otherwise. It just won't look anything like the current SE. Both the Mini and a low cost device can co-exist in 2023.

No, I am not suggesting Apple use a 'mega price cutting strategy on the Mini'. Why do you keep saying this? It's nonsense. The Mini starts at $700 now. Perhaps the 2021 Mini sells for $600. (Considering how poorly the Mini has sold so far, it would make sense to cut the price on the new model to push sales.) In 2022 you keep it in the lineup (no update) and cut $100 off the price and offer it for $500. In 2023 it remains in the lineup (again, no update from the 2021 model) with another $100 discount. That's $400. That's your new cheapest iPhone in the lineup. By then the only model with a notch.

Why can you still not understand that the iPhone Mini will look quite old and dated by the fall of 2023? Again, like I keep saying, that's 2.5 years from now. That's a long time in the smartphone world. Apple can offer such a device at a much cheaper price by then.

The iPhone 11 Pro design is based on iPhone X. It certainly wasn't dated.

The 2020 iPhone SE uses a 6 year old design. You're proposing Apple skip the iPhone X form factor and go directly to iPhone 12 form factor, and still sell for $399.

 

[blairh]

The iPhone 11 Pro design is based on iPhone X. It certainly wasn't dated.

The 2020 iPhone SE uses a 6 year old design. You're proposing Apple skip the iPhone X form factor and go directly to iPhone 12 form factor, and still sell for $399.

The 11 Pro is currently a dated looking device. And it's less than 2 years old. In 2.5 years the iPhone Mini will look very dated with that big notch.

You are really obsessed with this 'skipping' the iPhone X form factor comment, my lord.

I believe Apple will want to offer the Mini down the road at a discounted rate in 2023. As I already laid out in my last comment, that is very possible and plausible. End of story.

Apple has zero obligation or need to retain the iPhone X form factor for a future cheaper device. None. Get off this ridiculous notion. Other than (potentailly) a punch-hole LCD panel, we have no idea what the 2023 SE or SE-like device would entail.

Hole punch LCD is definitely cheaper than a notch cut OLED, especially since it won't need Face ID hardware.

View attachment 1758943

The iPhone Mini panel isn't even on this graph. 😂

 

[snipr125]

The iPhone 11 Pro design is based on iPhone X. It certainly wasn't dated.

The 2020 iPhone SE uses a 6 year old design. You're proposing Apple skip the iPhone X form factor and go directly to iPhone 12 form factor, and still sell for $399.

The original Iphone X 5.8 form factor as the next 2023 SE would be ideal, not the XR/11 design though. Take the X 5.8, replace the stainless steel with Aluminium, OLED to LCD etc to lower the cost to that £399 SE price point.

 

[JPack]

The original Iphone X 5.8 form factor as the next 2023 SE would be ideal, not the XR/11 design though. Take the X 5.8, replace the stainless steel with Aluminium, OLED to LCD etc to lower the cost to that £399 SE price point.

The 5.8" form factor requires other expensive technologies, such as dual-cell battery and a stacked PCB.

It is one of the many reasons why the XR can hit $499 or even $449, but the mini never will.

iPhone SE2 is cheap because it borrows components from the family. You can't borrow a 5.8" aluminum chassis or a 5.8" LCD from an existing design.

 

[Feyl]

Why would the telephoto make it more of a hit? Haven’t missed it since I got my iPhone 11. The ultra wide is so much more useful and the iPhone 11 sold a bucketload.

Well I find it more useful and you can take portrait photos of everything, not just people. And it doesn't suffer from distorted edges.

 

[danny842003]

Well I find it more useful and you can take portrait photos of everything, not just people. And it doesn't suffer from distorted edges.

Fair enough but I don’t think many people are taking portraits of none people.
taking photos of large groups of people in small areas seems more likely to be common useage.

 

[Feyl]

Fair enough but I don’t think many people are taking portraits of none people.
taking photos of large groups of people in small areas seems more likely to be common useage.

I’m taking portrait shots of objects all the time.

 

[Phone Junky]

Well I find it more useful and you can take portrait photos of everything, not just people. And it doesn't suffer from distorted edges.

All of the new iPhones can take portrait mode photos of objects as well as people.

 

[Feyl]

All of the new iPhones can take portrait mode photos of objects as well as people.

Are you sure? With the stock camera app? If so, they still lack optical zoom.

 

[danny842003]

I’m taking portrait shots of objects all the time.

I’m sure you are I don’t think most people are though.

 

[Feyl]

I’m sure you are I don’t think most people are though.

We can’t say that for sure. There’s no data for both of our use cases.

 

[rdy0329]

Sure, there's the sunk cost R&D, but it might not mean much.

Experienced managers know not to double down on failure. You don't throw good money after bad money. Otherwise, the iPhone SE would be based on iPhone 5C. And the HomePod would be updated instead of being discontinued.

We have evidence sales of iPhone 12 mini are weak. Consumers prefer larger and larger display sizes. How much sense does it make to relaunch a known weak selling 5.4" product in 2024 or later? Versus refreshing the XR with 5G for example?

Homepod is a first generation product, it gave Apple insight to the home speaker market, which has value in itself. Much like the first iPhone and OG iPad when they launched.

You're forgetting that SE line is just a rehashed flagship with updated specs with an emphasis on cost minimisation which meant no major changes to the assembly line except for the updated logic board (made elsewhere), and for SE 2020, only sticking to a black bezel across all colors.

The 5c failed because they were selling last year's specs with updated LTE modems only which is not the mantra of the SE line.

 

[danny842003]

We can’t say that for sure. There’s no data for both of our use cases.

You’re correct but from what I see on social media and what people said when the change was made I would say I’m correct.

 

[Bodhitree]

iPhone SE2 is cheap because it borrows components from the family. You can't borrow a 5.8" aluminum chassis or a 5.8" LCD from an existing design.

Components become cheaper over time, it’s quite possible that in two years time the Mini can be made for the required amount of cash. But we also have to take into account the need to stay current with the market, if you’re going to bring in switchers and be competitive in emerging nations.

This year the iPhone SE 2020 is going up against phones like the Samsung A52, which sports a new SoC which remedies it’s predecessors key weakness in speed, now gets 3 years of OS updates and has a modern multiple camera lens array. It also has an OLED screen and optionally 5G. The SE has the Apple brand, privacy focus and the superior A13 SoC.

It seems to me that in order to compete effectively, Apple will need to modernise the SE to a design with more camera’s, 5G and an OLED display, while staying at the cutting edge in processors, and they need to do that soon.

 

[Feyl]

You’re correct but from what I see on social media and what people said when the change was made I would say I’m correct.

My social bubble says that they don’t care.

 

[JPack]

Components become cheaper over time, it’s quite possible that in two years time the Mini can be made for the required amount of cash. But we also have to take into account the need to stay current with the market, if you’re going to bring in switchers and be competitive in emerging nations.

This year the iPhone SE 2020 is going up against phones like the Samsung A52, which sports a new SoC which remedies it’s predecessors key weakness in speed, now gets 3 years of OS updates and has a modern multiple camera lens array. It also has an OLED screen and optionally 5G. The SE has the Apple brand, privacy focus and the superior A13 SoC.

It seems to me that in order to compete effectively, Apple will need to modernise the SE to a design with more camera’s, 5G and an OLED display, while staying at the cutting edge in processors, and they need to do that soon.

Just because component costs decrease, doesn’t mean Apple needs to give up their profits. Does the SE need OLED or dual-lens camera? I don’t think so. The processor and more importantly, the Apple branding carries a lot of weight. Even before the SE2 was launched, we saw Xiaomi A3 have 6.1” OLED with in-display fingerprint and triple camera sell for under $200.

Launched in 2020, the 4.7” SE2 will be getting 5G in 2022, as predicted by Kuo. So in 2 years, the SE will only get 5G and a processor upgrade. How can one reasonably expect in 2023, the mini with 5G, OLED, dual-camera, Face ID, flat edge design, and stacked PCB will be priced anywhere close to $399?

Apple’s branding and iPhones are so well liked, the SE doesn’t need to have most of those premium features to sell.

 

[JPack]

Homepod is a first generation product, it gave Apple insight to the home speaker market, which has value in itself. Much like the first iPhone and OG iPad when they launched.

You're forgetting that SE line is just a rehashed flagship with updated specs with an emphasis on cost minimisation which meant no major changes to the assembly line except for the updated logic board (made elsewhere), and for SE 2020, only sticking to a black bezel across all colors.

The 5c failed because they were selling last year's specs with updated LTE modems only which is not the mantra of the SE line.

If the SE is a rehashed flagship, why would Apple rehash a known poor selling product like the mini? Instead of a well received product, like the XR? If it’s about cost minimization, the XR is cheaper to manufacture than the mini.

Your original comment indicated Apple wouldn’t waste all that engineering investment into the 5.4” form factor. Apple learned the HomePod wasn’t popular. They learned consumers don’t like colorful plastic chassis of the 5C. They learned people don’t like a 5.4” display in 2020. It’s a mistake, but it doesn’t mean Apple has to continue walking down the wrong path just because production lines have already been set up.

 

[blairh]

Launched in 2020, the 4.7” SE2 will be getting 5G in 2022, as predicted by Kuo. So in 2 years, the SE will only get 5G and a processor upgrade. How can one reasonably expect in 2023, the mini with 5G, OLED, dual-camera, Face ID, flat edge design, and stacked PCB will be priced anywhere close to $399?

The XR currently sells for $499 and has Face ID. The SE next year will probably get 5G and still maintain a low price point. The OLED panel that the Mini uses costs less due to its smaller size. Yes, the iPhone Mini can exist in the fall of 2023 at $399 or close to it. How you still don't comprehend this fact is seriously beyond me.

 

[JPack]

The XR currently sells for $499 and has Face ID. The SE next year will probably get 5G and still maintain a low price point. The OLED panel that the Mini uses costs less due to its smaller size. Yes, the iPhone Mini can exist in the fall of 2023 at $399 or close to it. How you still don't comprehend this fact is seriously beyond me.

You're stuck with the silly idea the cost of a 5.4" OLED is cheaper than a 6.1" LCD. No wonder you don't get it.

IHS shows a similar size notched OLED is 50% more expensive than a notched LCD. BOM estimates show Apple's 6.5" OLED is only 15% more expensive than 5.8" OLED. There are hardly any cost savings when you shrink.

You don't take into consideration actual numbers and simply use hand waving arguments. It's no wonder you predicted several times last year the mini would be a "monster" seller.

 

[Bodhitree]

Apple’s branding and iPhones are so well liked, the SE doesn’t need to have most of those premium features to sell.

I think you underestimate the power of the feature set and styling in comparative shopping. If you want to capture shoppers in emerging markets which are very price sensitive, you need to offer a competitive package. The SE 2020 benefitted from having the then-cutting edge A13 SoC, which drew quite a few people with its promise of world-leading performance in a $500 phone, but that’s a trick that will only work for a little while until mid-range Android soc’s become ”good enough” that there is a minimal performance difference.

And compared to this year’s Android phones which are the same price or sometimes substantially cheaper, it has a lot of disadvantages. I think the SE’s sales will decline rapidly if it is not updated.

 

[bgalakazam]

I just want a phone I can hold with 1 hand without that ridiculous pull out thing on the back. The 5s and first SE were a nice size. Now all you have is huge phablets.