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iPhone 12 mini The iPhone Mini Failed (And That's Okay)
- Thread starter blairh
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The worst members of this forum are people like you who put words into others mouths. It is absolutely pathetic and embarrassing.You're stuck with the silly idea the cost of a 5.4" OLED is cheaper than a 6.1" LCD. No wonder you don't get it.
IHS shows a similar size notched OLED is 50% more expensive than a notched LCD. BOM estimates show Apple's 6.5" OLED is only 15% more expensive than 5.8" OLED. There are hardly any cost savings when you shrink.
You don't take into consideration actual numbers and simply use hand waving arguments. It's no wonder you predicted several times last year the mini would be a "monster" seller.
At no point whatsoever during our back and forth have I ever said the Mini's panel would be cheaper than an LCD. Never. You attempted to provide me with a graph as some ridiculous proof in a previous reply and yet you gloss over the fact that we don't know how much a 5.4" OLED panel actually costs. Also, ever consider the fact that Apple will pay much less for said panel in 2023? Oh no, why would you? That doesn't help your ridiculous argument.
REGARDLESS OF THIS, you label my clear and obvious examples as to why the Mini will be much cheaper to make in 2023 as 'hand waving arguments'. You are absolutely ridiculous. I'm sorry that pointing out the fact that Face ID is on the XR (which currently starts at $499) hurts your ridiculous argument that the Mini can't be sold for $400 or $500 in 2023. I'm sorry that Apple is going to put 5G in the SE and still be able to keep the cost down, further adding proof that 5G in the Mini is a non-issue to keep it as an affordable option in 2023.
As to my prediction that the Mini would be a sales hit, I am one of many who felt so and I have no shame in proclaiming that when I did. Where I was wrong (and so was Apple by the way) was that people were not willing to pay a premium for such a device. It doesn't mean however that such a device cannot succeed. It just can't at $700 and up and it hasn't help to have the SE and other cheap options in the lineup at the same time. Where it will thrive is when Apple can sell it at a much cheaper price, which will happen by 2023, despite your childish cries. (Side note, it is so creepy that you went that far back into my posting history. Seriously, get a life mate.)
If this is how you are going to act, and it's crystal clear to me that is the case, then I see no reason whatsoever to ever engage with you on this forum ever again. Goodbye for good.
I like the size and shape of the mini. It reminds me of my iPhone 5 that I loved.
Can’t we all just get along? 😬
I think many of us Mini owners can be a bit too passionate at times, because for most of us it is simply the best smartphone we have ever owned, and as such we’d obviously be a bit devastated if Apple decides to discontinue it... 🤷♂️ I know I would be, and for me the SE will never be an alternative to the Mini. Worst case scenario; I’d probably have to go back to using a ‘brick sized’ phone eventually.
I think many of us Mini owners can be a bit too passionate at times, because for most of us it is simply the best smartphone we have ever owned, and as such we’d obviously be a bit devastated if Apple decides to discontinue it... 🤷♂️ I know I would be, and for me the SE will never be an alternative to the Mini. Worst case scenario; I’d probably have to go back to using a ‘brick sized’ phone eventually.
I think us 12 Mini owners get so passionate is because we appreciate choice, and we never attack the Iphone 12, 12 Pro and Max phones as we know that they are excellent phones (just bigger versions of the Mini obviously). We understand why people use larger phones and appreciate that. However, we don't seem to be getting the same respect back, for some unknown reason, there are members on macrumours who have a serious hatred and disdain for the 12 Mini. They want it killed off from the iphone line up, and seem to have great joy and pleasure in the thought that those like us who appreciate compact phones to have no choice/options at all.
Unfortunately, I think you hit the nail right on the head there. I’ve noticed the same thing many times, but I usually tend to ignore the haters... what can you do... 🤷♂️
Amazing how the iPhone Mini is being considered a failure as the 8th largest selling phone model in the world. The iPhone SE that apparently made it such a failure is not on the top 10 list of best selling phones.
Little doubt that the Mini cost to make is about that of the 12, so Apple did take a margin hit on the $100 discount. Also little doubt that Apple overpredicted sales and had to cut production. Adjusting production is done by every single manufacturer (of anything) on the planet. Still, who in their right mind would give up on the 8th best selling phone in the world?
Discontinuation is not a fact until it happens. Even if this guy was privy to actual Apple strategy versus supply chain whispers, that strategy can change.
Little doubt that the Mini cost to make is about that of the 12, so Apple did take a margin hit on the $100 discount. Also little doubt that Apple overpredicted sales and had to cut production. Adjusting production is done by every single manufacturer (of anything) on the planet. Still, who in their right mind would give up on the 8th best selling phone in the world?
Discontinuation is not a fact until it happens. Even if this guy was privy to actual Apple strategy versus supply chain whispers, that strategy can change.
Personally, the only issue for me with the Mini was the price. It's £699 here in the UK for the base 64GB, which is a lot of money for such a small device. Most third party retailers are actually selling it for £624 now, and that still doesn't feel like a great deal. To top it all off, Apple took the damn power adapter out of the box.
I actually returned mine, not because I didn't like it (I loved it), but because I didn't feel like it was good value for money. I mean, when I look at the cost of the 12 Pro, whilst it's still expensive, it doesn't feel as bad a deal (the quality of the finish, the screen size, LiDAR etc), but the Mini just doesn't look or feel like a £699 phone. Something like £499 for the base storage is probably just about right, but even that is pushing it. Even the regular 12 seems a little over-priced.
I've also had that dilemma of deciding between the 12 Mini and the SE2, and whilst I love the size and the more up to date form factor of the Mini, I don't love it enough to justify spending an extra £300. Performance-wise there's almost no difference, the camera isn't hugely better etc.
If it's a component cost issue in order to get it under £500, I'd be fine if the Mini had to have an LCD instead of OLED or maybe a slightly inferior camera - basically the 11 but 'Mini' sized. My feeling is that generally people who go for the Mini do so because the device size is the most important factor to them, so there's wiggle room in the rest of the spec.
I know inflation is obviously a major factor, but for a few years the flagship iPhone base storage models (16GB 5/5S/6) were in the £500 region and that felt like the sweet spot.
Apple got a LOT right with the Mini - but the obvious issue is the price point. It's crazy that this device is only £300 less than a MacBook Air!
I actually returned mine, not because I didn't like it (I loved it), but because I didn't feel like it was good value for money. I mean, when I look at the cost of the 12 Pro, whilst it's still expensive, it doesn't feel as bad a deal (the quality of the finish, the screen size, LiDAR etc), but the Mini just doesn't look or feel like a £699 phone. Something like £499 for the base storage is probably just about right, but even that is pushing it. Even the regular 12 seems a little over-priced.
I've also had that dilemma of deciding between the 12 Mini and the SE2, and whilst I love the size and the more up to date form factor of the Mini, I don't love it enough to justify spending an extra £300. Performance-wise there's almost no difference, the camera isn't hugely better etc.
If it's a component cost issue in order to get it under £500, I'd be fine if the Mini had to have an LCD instead of OLED or maybe a slightly inferior camera - basically the 11 but 'Mini' sized. My feeling is that generally people who go for the Mini do so because the device size is the most important factor to them, so there's wiggle room in the rest of the spec.
I know inflation is obviously a major factor, but for a few years the flagship iPhone base storage models (16GB 5/5S/6) were in the £500 region and that felt like the sweet spot.
Apple got a LOT right with the Mini - but the obvious issue is the price point. It's crazy that this device is only £300 less than a MacBook Air!
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You've nailed two points. Price and the iPhone lineup.
Apple banked on people willing to pay a premium for a compact iPhone and that is no longer the case. People will pay the big bucks for larger iPhones. Not smaller ones at this point IMO. For the Mini to work down the road, they need to seriously reduce the price at some point. Which I think they will, but it will take a few years when it will cost less to make them.
People will only buy the iPhone Mini for one reason, the size. They don't really care if it has an OLED panel or 5G or the best camera. It's all about that size. I wish Apple had simply made a less technically impressive iPhone so they could have sold it at a lower price.
The Mini's place in the lineup is also quite awkward. For $100 more you can get an iPhone 12, which just seems to be a better value. For $500 you can get an iPhone XR with Face ID. And for $400 you can get an iPhone SE, which is nearly half the price and not that much bigger than the Mini.
The Mini has had a lot going against it from the jump. I'm still a firm believer in a strong market for a compact iPhone, but not at this price point, and not in this current lineup.
It failed because it wasn't the same size as an iPhone 5... it was barely smaller than a X :-/
I went from an 11 pro max to an iPhone 12 mini. I have loved the smaller phone. I do have to charge it during the day which I did not have to do with the big phone. Pundits love to say it’s a failure and no one likes it… But that’s not really true. Plenty of people like it and plenty of people want a larger phone. I hope Apple will do as they usually do and keep a product that is not a chart topper.
Apple sells a highly customized solution. You're looking at specs and features alone.
Apple offers software longevity like no other Android phone. Apple's security is another big selling point. Finally, Apple is the most valuable brand in the world and has been for years. Apple is #1, Samsung is #5, Huawei is #80.
Consumers in emerging markets are price sensitive, but everyone knows Coca-Cola and Apple.
Unless a forum member had a hand in designing the iPhone 12 mini, I'm not sure why mini owners see it as an attack. Most of the time, the comments are an objective look at the sales and trajectory of the iPhone mini. The sales reality of the mini may not resonate with the owners, but it's not an attack.
Whose fault is it the iPhone 12 mini isn't a top 5 seller? During quarterly earnings calls, Tim Cook hasn't said a word about the iPhone 12 mini. Yet, he confirms there's high interest in the Pro and Pro Max. It doesn't help that some people make questionable statements like, "iPhone 12 mini sales were poor because the Apple Stores were closed" or "Apple didn't advertise the iPhone 12 mini enough."
Brands become great by consistently offering customers value. Apple knows that, they can’t rest on their laurels. They have to do the right thing in offering sufficient value in whatever form, from specs to intangibles like style, for the money they charge.
I bought the Mini on launch day for 860€. Size was good, weight was great, price was high.
I sent it back and went back to 11 pro.
This week I bought the Mini again on amazon warehouse for 549€ on mint conditions, it was activated on February according to serial check.
Size is good, weight is great and now price is perfect.
Also sold the 11 pro for 80% of what I paid it for, there is a high demand for the 5,8 form factor.
I sent it back and went back to 11 pro.
This week I bought the Mini again on amazon warehouse for 549€ on mint conditions, it was activated on February according to serial check.
Size is good, weight is great and now price is perfect.
Also sold the 11 pro for 80% of what I paid it for, there is a high demand for the 5,8 form factor.
I want to add my voice to those who raise concern that there are definitely far too many on this forum who appear gleeful that the mini (sadly) hasn’t been a success that Apple no doubt hoped it would be.
Sadly, I think this is due to political discourse being poisoned in the last few years where a you’re ‘either with or against us’ polarised attitude now dominates.
I am happy that there’s a pro max out there and that people love it and it’s doing well - although I would never buy one since I don’t want a phone that’s so large, no matter its functionality or price.
I would ask that pro max owners show the same basic courtesy to those that like the mini (I’m not a mini owner BTW).
I very much doubt that the existence of the mini is taking away resources from the pro max, so why do owners/fans of this phone seem to abhor the existence of the mini so much?
Sadly, I think this is due to political discourse being poisoned in the last few years where a you’re ‘either with or against us’ polarised attitude now dominates.
I am happy that there’s a pro max out there and that people love it and it’s doing well - although I would never buy one since I don’t want a phone that’s so large, no matter its functionality or price.
I would ask that pro max owners show the same basic courtesy to those that like the mini (I’m not a mini owner BTW).
I very much doubt that the existence of the mini is taking away resources from the pro max, so why do owners/fans of this phone seem to abhor the existence of the mini so much?
I'm not sure what Apple will/won't do and I'm not going to speculate, but I sure hope that we are left with an option of a phone no larger than 5.8", and which is current in terms of specs (i.e. not a gimped low cost SE model).
The ignorance of the OP is breathtaking. Thinking size should some how scale linearly with size is absurd.
Functionally a 12 and 12 mini are identical, only separated by display size and battery capacity. Neither of these things would be substantially different in cost. In fact it could be quite the opposite due to economies of scale.
To then compare it to the SE with its older processor, single camera, lack of Face ID, etc. shows how off the mark your comparisons are.
I bought a 12 Pro at launch, only to pickup a 12 mini. I love the smaller size, and in my regularly use I’ve given up very little. The price wasn’t an issue, and it’s very obvious how much better it is than an SE.
Functionally a 12 and 12 mini are identical, only separated by display size and battery capacity. Neither of these things would be substantially different in cost. In fact it could be quite the opposite due to economies of scale.
To then compare it to the SE with its older processor, single camera, lack of Face ID, etc. shows how off the mark your comparisons are.
I bought a 12 Pro at launch, only to pickup a 12 mini. I love the smaller size, and in my regularly use I’ve given up very little. The price wasn’t an issue, and it’s very obvious how much better it is than an SE.
Why do you equate the size of the device to the price. One has nothing to do with the other. Actually, over the course of manufacturing history, things cost more, and people paid more to buy smaller, miniaturized tech.
The Mini is for people that would prefer a smaller device, not those looking for a cheaper solution. And for those usual suspects that will jump on my last statement and say, "Obviously not enough people want a small device. Apple's not gonna make them in the future." This may or may not happen. I think it's kind of bold to go on some rumors on here and jump to conclusions.
Just because one of your own products is the least sold in your own lineup, doesn't make it a "failure". I know it's for the sake of discussion, but as others have said, some on here seem to really like to pound home the "fact" that the Mini is a failure due to these rumor reports.
In conclusion, all we can do is wait and see what the future holds for the Mini. If Apple does drop the Mini, I already have mine and am quite happy. Having different choices is nice. If some are taken away, I will adapt and use what's available.
You know all those reports of poor battery life in the iPhone 12 Mini?
Well... the iPhone 5 body is even smaller.
You still gotta put a battery somewhere. At some point it's too small. Even for Apple... who championed tiny phones for as long as they could. They're dealing with physics here.
There will never be another modern flagship smartphone that is the size of the iPhone 5. Period. I'm sorry.
You're gonna have to make do with whatever the smallest phone Apple offers... since you know damn well there won't be any Android phones that small ever again.
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The 12 mini isn’t much larger than the 5, and is smaller than a 6/7/8/SE/X (wife’s XS below).
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I'm not saying everyone has an issue with the price, or that in the grand scheme of things size somehow equates to price at all - but for Apple in comparison to their earlier phones it doesn't feel like the 12 Mini should be the price it is when previous flagship Apple phones (which this isn't) were cheaper. There are plenty of people who don't care how much it costs and size is the only priority for them so don't blink at all when they see the price tag, that's fine.
Apple has slowly increased the pricing of their phones each year, but the increase in price does not match the real world increase in most people's income due to inflation. Yes, certain components cost more (e.g. OLED over LCD), but there are people like myself who do factor in device cost and some outright won't buy a device beyond a certain price point just out of principle.
I don't agree with the OP that it was a failure. Maybe in terms of Apple's own sale projections, but I'm all for smaller phones personally, I hate this trend of larger phones - at the end of the day it's a 'mobile' phone - it should be easy to carry and not be cumbersome to hold.
Apple has two streams of new phones going, the 12 and 12 Pro. Top-tier phones from many brands (e.g. Samsung) have gotten increasingly expensive over the past few years, it sucks but it is what it is.
The 12/12 Mini and the 12 Pro/12 Pro Max are no different from when Apple started the small/large combo back with the 6/6 Plus.
The standard was only moderately cheaper than the Plus, just as the Mini is only moderately cheaper than the standard 12. If Apple was to name them as they did in the beginning, it would be the 12 and the 12 Plus.
The 12 mini had some serius flaws, deciding the fate of the line based on how it fared is rather wrong.
- It has an early adopter premium price of a tech most don't need yet (5G). The modem will be rather inferior when it will be widespread - no future proofing either.
- Small phones are tend to be secondary-terciary devices for people owning other devices too. No need to replace while staying home.
- It would have needed to convice people still using TouchId modells that it's okay to switch for a FaceId modell. During a pandemic.
- A small battery hit further by the idiotic magsafe taking up place. Relative to size it hurts most the mini. Also the marketing was bad, all sites compared the battery life to other 12 models or 11. Guess what, I have an original SE, have no ****ing clue about the battery life of those. Apple marketing should have pushed comparisons against older models.
Personally I've never bought a phone within one year of it's initial release, so if everything would have been perfect, I'd still wouldn't have shown up in sales numbers.
The primary worry of Apple shouldn't be phone sales, but people leaving the ecosystem. Especially when the company switches to in-house architecture with Macs. Then they could wave goodbye to their precious service revenue too.
- It has an early adopter premium price of a tech most don't need yet (5G). The modem will be rather inferior when it will be widespread - no future proofing either.
- Small phones are tend to be secondary-terciary devices for people owning other devices too. No need to replace while staying home.
- It would have needed to convice people still using TouchId modells that it's okay to switch for a FaceId modell. During a pandemic.
- A small battery hit further by the idiotic magsafe taking up place. Relative to size it hurts most the mini. Also the marketing was bad, all sites compared the battery life to other 12 models or 11. Guess what, I have an original SE, have no ****ing clue about the battery life of those. Apple marketing should have pushed comparisons against older models.
Personally I've never bought a phone within one year of it's initial release, so if everything would have been perfect, I'd still wouldn't have shown up in sales numbers.
The primary worry of Apple shouldn't be phone sales, but people leaving the ecosystem. Especially when the company switches to in-house architecture with Macs. Then they could wave goodbye to their precious service revenue too.