The Macbook Air - the gold standard for all laptops

[newellj]

I think the Air is the best all-around laptop you can buy in 2015. That takes into account performance, features, ports, weight, battery life, screen and price.

There are other laptops that easily beat the Air in every single one of these categories, but taken as an entire package, the case can be made that the Air is the best all-around computer. If someone had 800-1000 to spend and need a general purpose computer, the Air is a great machine.

If you're going to cap the price at $800-1000, you've pre-determined the answer.

 

[newellj]

Not only battery life.

For screen, yes, we have agreed, that the rMBP is better.

Maybe even the rMB, too, as there is no argument about the quality of its screen. However, that machine is so underpowered and lacking in specifications, (and ports) that I see it - rather like the 2008 first generation MBA - as something with potential that still needs several further generations of work before it will be a machine worth considering purchasing.

For power, the MBP - and I have had a MBP in the past, great machines, especially when used as an alternative desktop, but a nuisance - for me - to carry.

However, the thing about the MBA is that it hits a sweet spot where power, portability, speed, battery (and indeed, price) all combine.

Different machines are exceed the MBA in certain, specific criteria; but - overall, - when adjudicating and comparing across the entire range of specifications of what make a great computer none touches the combination of qualities which - when, taken together - make the MBA - to my mind, easily one of the best computers Apple have ever made.

I am so impressed by them, that, as long as they are being made, I will have one for travel purposes.

Here's at least one reviewer who used to say "Just get an Air" but now says "Get a MacBook Pro": http://www.wsj.com/articles/which-m...-speed-and-style-in-apples-laptops-1433875992

Portability is far from clear. The 13" rMBP weighs a little more (half a pound) but also takes up eight square inches more space in a bag or on a table, which is not inconsiderable.

The Air is sort of a mystery in terms of its development. It started out astronomically expensive with laughable specs. Apple didn't really get it zeroed in until 2013 (or perhaps 2012, but battery life improved significantly in 2013). Having gotten it to a high level of refinement in 2013, Apple seems to have gone out of their way to ignore or even disadvantage the Air in terms of further development.

 

[z31fanatic]

If it weren't for the tragic screen, I'd agree that the Air would be the gold standard of all laptops.

 

[RedTomato]

I've been in computing for 25 years. I love my 2013 Air - it is the best computer I've ever owned. Agree with the above poster - the recent Airs, especially 2013 onwards, are a huge transformation from the early Airs. These early ones were ****, and I wouldn't wish them on anyone.

Early Airs:
Underpowered C2D processor
Short battery life (3 hours I think it was)
Slow spinny HDD that was a pain to replace
Lack of ports
Slow USB 2.0 port
No DVD
Slow wifi
Slow USB 2.0 ethernet dongle
**** graphics

2013 onwards Airs:
Fast i-series CPU
Hyperlong battery life
Insanely fast SSDs
Many ports
Fast USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt ports.
DVDs are used far less now
Fast wifi
HD5000 graphics, still not fantastic but covers everything non-gaming plus most mid-range games.

I considered getting a MBPr, but I decided not to pay extra for lesser battery life plus extra weight (I carry my computer an hour each day and battery life is also vital to me).

 

[Dark Void]

I never see myself using an ultrabook form factor notebook but I never had a problem with the Air. The Air is innovative, the rMB is just old news with appealing color choices backed up by smoke and mirrors with a screen resolution as its flagship.

I consider it a guinea pig for the butterfly mechanism keys, which doesn't seem to be accepted by the majority.

The Air is different. It makes sense. The rMB is redundant. They should have either left MacBook alone as a more entry level polycarbonate notebook option or cut it down altogether.

 

[newellj]

I never see myself using an ultrabook form factor notebook but I never had a problem with the Air. The Air is innovative, the rMB is just old news with appealing color choices backed up by smoke and mirrors with a screen resolution as its flagship.

I consider it a guinea pig for the butterfly mechanism keys, which doesn't seem to be accepted by the majority.

The Air is different. It makes sense. The rMB is redundant. They should have either left MacBook alone as a more entry level polycarbonate notebook option or cut it down altogether.

I owned a rMB for a couple of weeks and used the heck out of it. I disagree strongly about "smoke and mirrors." I did wind up returning it because I found the keyboard maddening, completely contrary to my expectations.

As I said earlier, I find Apple's development of the MBA a total mystery. Unless they plan to surprise us all by completely rejuvenating the Air line? I agree that the sharp turn from the MBA to the rMB is a puzzle, almost a waste. But they presumably know their business better than I do.

 

[Dark Void]

I disagree strongly about "smoke and mirrors."

Fair enough, but I would call focusing on a keyboard mechanism, thinness, force touch and aesthetic color schemes "smoke and mirrors" considering its weak processor. I use a computer from 2012 that scores higher on CPU benchmarks. I don't think the Core M is useless, but in 2015? Is it really worth it? That's not even considering the fact that the Core M is at its best in a short benchmarking period. It's inability to provide consistent performance in the long term cripples it. The lack of a fan? My goodness. Is it WORTH a fraction of the thickness?

You can say that it is "Yosemite's fault" for UI lag and the like but we will see if software is in fact the reason soon enough. Users here are reporting that El Captain is helping, but no final verdicts can be reached yet. The HD 5300 should be capable of handling the display but I wouldn't be surprised if the Core M continues to affect the fluidity of the system as a whole.

Go view the "Design" page of the rMB on Apple's website and tell me if you still disagree. Scroll through and you will see what I'm talking about. The internals have a short mention towards the bottom of the page. Before that its COLORS AND SCREENS AND NUMBERS AND KEYS!!!!!

 

[newellj]

Fair enough, but I would call focusing on a keyboard mechanism, thinness, force touch and aesthetic color schemes "smoke and mirrors" considering its weak processor. I use a computer from 2012 that scores higher on CPU benchmarks. I don't think the Core M is useless, but in 2015? Is it really worth it? That's not even considering the fact that the Core M is at its best in a short benchmarking period. It's inability to provide consistent performance in the long term cripples it. The lack of a fan? My goodness. Is it WORTH a fraction of the thickness?

You can say that it is "Yosemite's fault" for UI lag and the like but we will see if software is in fact the reason soon enough. Users here are reporting that El Captain is helping, but no final verdicts can be reached yet. The HD 5300 should be capable of handling the display but I wouldn't be surprised if the Core M continues to affect the fluidity of the system as a whole.

Go view the "Design" page of the rMB on Apple's website and tell me if you still disagree. Scroll through and you will see what I'm talking about. The internals have a short mention towards the bottom of the page. Before that its COLORS AND SCREENS AND NUMBERS AND KEYS!!!!!

My point is that I don't think the processor is "weak," as everyone likes to say. I've owned it and used it pretty hard. For what most people do, it's great. The short-task benchmarks are actually very representative of what most buyers are going to be doing with this computer. It is not being marketed to people doing massive code complications or editing huge video files.

The aesthetics...meh, who knows, no opinion. I like silver/natural aluminum personally. The keyboard I believe is actually a functional issue (if you accept the goal of a thinner machine, which I understand people will have different opinions about). I really thought I'd get used to it. Instead I came to hate it. I truly hope that Apple does not migrate that keyboard to the other notebooks, but I would guess that it will start popping up when they revise the rMBP.

 

[Dsching]

My point is that I don't think the processor is "weak," as everyone likes to say. I've owned it and used it pretty hard. For what most people do, it's great. The short-task benchmarks are actually very representative of what most buyers are going to be doing with this computer. It is not being marketed to people doing massive code complications or editing huge video files.

The aesthetics...meh, who knows, no opinion. I like silver/natural aluminum personally. The keyboard I believe is actually a functional issue (if you accept the goal of a thinner machine, which I understand people will have different opinions about). I really thought I'd get used to it. Instead I came to hate it. I truly hope that Apple does not migrate that keyboard to the other notebooks, but I would guess that it will start popping up when they revise the rMBP.

The processor is the heart and brain of every computer and the one in the new macbook is about as powerful as a 2010 cpu. In computer terms those are lightyears. It might work now for basic tasks, but so does any iPad or iPhone.

 

[motrek]

The processor is the heart and brain of every computer and the one in the new macbook is about as powerful as a 2010 cpu. In computer terms those are lightyears. It might work now for basic tasks, but so does any iPad or iPhone.

No, that's not right.

For short bursts of CPU activity (less than maybe 20-30 seconds?) the rMB is just as fast as any other modern MacBook. Most computer users won't stress the CPU any more than this.

The rMB is not great at sustained CPU activity but there's no need to make it sound worse than it is.

 

[Dark Void]

My point is that I don't think the processor is "weak," as everyone likes to say.

Sure, it may not be considered weak in daily use, but it's 2015. Is it worth the fraction of the thickness and mildly increased battery life for a fanless processor that can't hold up long term and performs worse than what Apple was shipping 3 or more years ago? My opinion is that it is not.

I don't see much of a reason for it. The MBAs ship with typical notebook processors. Why is it different here? The battery? It doesn't weight out properly when I look at it, and hopefully these processors even last. I can see multitudes of issues popping up in the future of dead or cooked processors, no matter how much energy it claims to draw.

 

[motrek]

... I can see multitudes of issues popping up in the future of dead or cooked processors, no matter how much energy it claims to draw.

Impossible. Processors have temperature sensors and if they get hot they run slower to use less power and cool down. If they ever get hot enough that it might cause permanent damage then they shut off completely.

Again, the rMB processor is not great but there's no reason to make it sound worse than it is.

 

[Dark Void]

Impossible. Processors have temperature sensors and if they get hot they run slower to use less power and cool down. If they ever get hot enough that it might cause permanent damage then they shut off completely.

Again, the rMB processor is not great but there's no reason to make it sound worse than it is.

This is precisely what I mean ...

You have never encountered that before? I have, with older notebooks that I have used and worked on in the past. They start up, and shut down depending on whether you task it too much, even with working fans.

You're saying its impossible for it to not work properly regarding heat, and it's impossible that the sensors won't function as intended? Okay.

 

[newellj]

The processor is the heart and brain of every computer and the one in the new macbook is about as powerful as a 2010 cpu. In computer terms those are lightyears. It might work now for basic tasks, but so does any iPad or iPhone.

Buy one and use it. I did. If you haven't, you're just contributing hot air.

 

[newellj]

No, that's not right.

For short bursts of CPU activity (less than maybe 20-30 seconds?) the rMB is just as fast as any other modern MacBook. Most computer users won't stress the CPU any more than this.

The rMB is not great at sustained CPU activity but there's no need to make it sound worse than it is.

You have this exactly right, and one of the most interesting things I've done from a hardware perspective recently was watching the Core M sprint up and fall back in response to task inputs. To be sure, I think the current Core M is just a first draft, but it is a very good first draft and it certainly points the way to vastly more efficient CPU designs. I love my 28W Broadwell but let's face it, it's not the most efficient bit of hardware around.

 

[newellj]

Sure, it may not be considered weak in daily use, but it's 2015. Is it worth the fraction of the thickness and mildly increased battery life for a fanless processor that can't hold up long term and performs worse than what Apple was shipping 3 or more years ago? My opinion is that it is not.

I don't see much of a reason for it. The MBAs ship with typical notebook processors. Why is it different here? The battery? It doesn't weight out properly when I look at it, and hopefully these processors even last. I can see multitudes of issues popping up in the future of dead or cooked processors, no matter how much energy it claims to draw.

Sure, for a LOT of people it is (worth it). Whatever else is true, Apple knows that most users don't need long term (I assume you mean multi-minute tasks, not multi-year usability) CPU performance. We'll see how users react - does it sell? Does it get returned? Are people happy? Does the hardware have faults? It's too early to tell. For better or worse, the big picture takeaway is that Apple envisions a lighter, more portable, more wireless, less-wired future for most computing. Whether it makes you or me happy is basically irrelevant if a large number of buyers accept the vision.

 

[newellj]

This is precisely what I mean ...

You have never encountered that before? I have, with older notebooks that I have used and worked on in the past. They start up, and shut down depending on whether you task it too much, even with working fans.

You're saying its impossible for it to not work properly regarding heat, and it's impossible that the sensors won't function as intended? Okay.

I did a bunch of experiments with the rMB where the CPU ran up to ~95 degrees C for more than half an hour without shutting down. I think Apple has done a very good job with thermal management on this. If you haven't bought one and used it, you're just guessing.

 

[motrek]

This is precisely what I mean ...

You have never encountered that before? I have, with older notebooks that I have used and worked on in the past. They start up, and shut down depending on whether you task it too much, even with working fans.

You're saying its impossible for it to not work properly regarding heat, and it's impossible that the sensors won't function as intended? Okay.

I was responding specifically to your comment about "multitudes" of "dead or cooked" processors, not processors that have temporarily shut themselves off due to high temperatures.

And of course I'm sure it's possible for a temperature sensor to fail, just as it's possible for anything in the world to break. But I've never seen or heard of it happening so again I don't think we have to worry about "multitudes" of failures.

 

[newellj]

This is precisely what I mean ...

You have never encountered that before? I have, with older notebooks that I have used and worked on in the past. They start up, and shut down depending on whether you task it too much, even with working fans.

You're saying its impossible for it to not work properly regarding heat, and it's impossible that the sensors won't function as intended? Okay.

I had a Dell XPS 15 with an unspeakably fabulous RGB IPS display that would overheat doing video encodes and shut down...so yeah, I know it happens. That was quite a few years back now, though. And it was fine after it cooled off - never cooked dead.

 

[Dark Void]

I was responding specifically to your comment about "multitudes" of dead or cooked processors, not processors that have temporarily shut themselves off due to high temperatures.

And of course I'm sure it's possible for a temperature sensor to fail, just as it's possible for anything in the world to break. But I've never seen or heard of it happening so again I don't think we have to worry about "multitudes" of failures.

What does a processor that shuts downs repeatedly mean to you? Is that functional? I guess you just don't like my choice words - no, I'm not ignorant enough to believe that it will melt. It's just an expression.

I did a bunch of experiments with the rMB where the CPU ran up to ~95 degrees C for more than half an hour without shutting down. I think Apple has done a very good job with thermal management on this. If you haven't bought one and used it, you're just guessing.

That's a very high temperature.

I wouldn't be surprised if a fanless processor is going to have a significantly smaller lifespan than a properly cooled one. This is ALL I am saying. I am not saying it is going to happen - only that it wouldn't come as a shock to me.

I haven't owned one, as I wouldn't buy one, nor am I trying to trash talk it. I'm sharing an opinion. I'm "guessing" based off of what I know to be true about cooling. I can't see into the future, so I'm not sure why you're pointing out that I am making a guess. What should I be doing? Knowing for sure if they will have heat related shutdown issues later on? I'm only saying that I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Dsching]

Buy one and use it. I did. If you haven't, you're just contributing hot air.

Buy me one and I'll gladly use it I played around with one in the apple store and it is a beautifully designed laptop, no doubt about that. I still suspect that the processor might turn out to be a handicap in the long run.

 

[Dark Void]

I had a Dell XPS 15 with an unspeakably fabulous RGB IPS display that would overheat doing video encodes and shut down...so yeah, I know it happens. That was quite a few years back now, though. And it was fine after it cooled off - never cooked dead.

What does a processor that shuts downs repeatedly mean to you? Is that functional? I guess you just don't like my choice words - no, I'm not ignorant enough to believe that it will melt. It's just an expression.

 

[newellj]

Buy me one and I'll gladly use it I played around with one in the apple store and it is a beautifully designed laptop, no doubt about that. I still suspect that the processor might turn out to be a handicap in the long run.

Ahh, the long run. Well, in the Apple ecosphere we don't like to discuss that much, because there are way too many skeletons in the closet. Lots of people are focused on things like nVideagate/Radeongate recently...my personal favorite is the lithium batteries that caused fires. I'm actually being serious.

 

[newellj]

What does a processor that shuts downs repeatedly mean to you? Is that functional? I guess you just don't like my choice words - no, I'm not ignorant enough to believe that it will melt. It's just an expression.

Well, I'm not sure what answer you expect, but I'll tell you what I did - I stopped encoding vids on that machine and did it on my desktop, which was infinitely better cooled. The 15" XPS carried on happily thereafter.

I don't like computers that run hot, either, but it's not necessarily terminal. More relevant to this discussion (wait, is this the MacBook forum or the MBA forum??? ) I think that Intel, and the better computer manufacturers but specifically Apple, have learned a lot about thermal management in the last five-ten years. Again, you really have to have watched the frequency, power and temps go up and down on the Core M to appreciate the engineering progress, and I'm sure they will keep improving this. I wouldn't be surprised if 7-10 years from now fans are a thing of the past.

 

[motrek]

What does a processor that shuts downs repeatedly mean to you? Is that functional? I guess you just don't like my choice words - no, I'm not ignorant enough to believe that it will melt. It's just an expression.

Uh, okay. If something is "dead" or "cooked" that's not a reversible quality. You can't e.g. un-cook something. So if you say a thing is dead or cooked, the implication is that it's irreparably broken.

You wouldn't say that a light bulb is "dead" or "cooked" if you just turned it off, and all you have to do to get it working is to turn it on again, would you? So why are you using the words "dead" or "cooked" to describe a processor that temporarily shuts itself off to avoid overheating?

So it's not that I didn't "like" your choice of words. Your choice of words was misleading and wrong.

That's a very high temperature.

I wouldn't be surprised if a fanless processor is going to have a significantly smaller lifespan than a properly cooled one. This is ALL I am saying. I am not saying it is going to happen - only that it wouldn't come as a shock to me.
...

I would be very surprised. Intel's Tjunction temperature for the CPU is 95C. That means the part is specified to run indefinitely at that temperature. That's how product specifications work--a maximum specified temperature doesn't mean "if you run it at this temperature that we say is okay, then it will break pretty soon."

In my 30+ years of using computers (15+ years professionally) I have never seen or heard of a computer breaking because its CPU wore out from running at a temperature that was within specifications. Have you?