The Macbook Air - the gold standard for all laptops

[Dark Void]

Uh, okay. If something is "dead" or "cooked" that's not a reversible quality. You can't e.g. un-cook something. So if you say a thing is dead or cooked, the implication is that it's irreparably broken.

You wouldn't say that a light bulb is "dead" or "cooked" if you just turned it off, and all you have to do to get it working is to turn it on again, would you? So why are you using the words "dead" or "cooked" to describe a processor that temporarily shuts itself off to avoid overheating?

So it's not that I didn't "like" your choice of words. Your choice of words was misleading and wrong.

I'm way over your head and you are an extremely literal human being. I'm using such terms because it would be more/less unusable.

In my 30+ years of using computers (15+ years professionally) I have never seen or heard of a computer breaking because its CPU wore out from running at a temperature that was within specifications. Have you?

That's not what we are discussing, in fact, we are discussing the opposite. How many fanless notebooks have you worked on? Oh right.

I'm only saying that I would not be shocked if the longevity of this "innovative design" proves to faceplant. Not saying that is likely or unlikely. Try hard to understand.

 

[motrek]

I'm way over your head and you are an extremely literal human being. I'm using such terms because it would be more/less unusable.

That's not what we are discussing, in fact, we are discussing the opposite. How many fanless notebooks have you worked on? Oh right.

I'm only saying that I would not be shocked if the longevity of this "innovative design" proves to faceplant. Not saying that is likely or unlikely. Try hard to understand.

Huh, okay, so when you use synonyms for broken ("dead" and "cooked") you don't actually mean broken, and when we're discussing CPU lifespan, it's somehow irrelevant to talk about how many CPUs we've seen reach the end of their lifespan. Gotcha.

I think it's time for you to consider the possibility that whatever breakdown we're having in communication, it might not be on my end.

(BTW--as for fanless notebooks--you are showing your age, or at least lack of experience, with regard to computers. For a long time it was uncommon for CPUs to have heatsinks, much less fans. My first three laptops didn't have fans.)

 

[maflynn]

The MBA is the gold standard because it is the defacto laptop being used by people on the go, it is the popular model. The video had a number of metrics it was basing what it thought a laptop ought to have and the MBA met all those metrics.

Overall I do think the rMB may unseat the MBA as the standard laptop for road warriors but in time, but its lackluster battery life may inhibit this, since the MBA's battery lasts a lot longer.

 

[newellj]

The MBA is the gold standard because it is the defacto laptop being used by people on the go, it is the popular model. The video had a number of metrics it was basing what it thought a laptop ought to have and the MBA met all those metrics.

Overall I do think the rMB may unseat the MBA as the standard laptop for road warriors but in time, but its lackluster battery life may inhibit this, since the MBA's battery lasts a lot longer.

Basically, we're comparing an EOL machine with a v1 machine. Remember that it took quite a few years for Apple to get the MBA's battery life up to its current levels. I think the key words are "in time."

 

[newellj]

Huh, okay, so when you use synonyms for broken ("dead" and "cooked") you don't actually mean broken, and when we're discussing CPU lifespan, it's somehow irrelevant to talk about how many CPUs we've seen reach the end of their lifespan. Gotcha.

I think it's time for you to consider the possibility that whatever breakdown we're having in communication, it might not be on my end.

(BTW--as for fanless notebooks--you are showing your age, or at least lack of experience, with regard to computers. For a long time it was uncommon for CPUs to have heatsinks, much less fans. My first three laptops didn't have fans.)

Precision of expression and meaning in interpersonal communications is frequently over-rated. And since I think you are probably old enough to appreciate it, I'll add: GD&R.

 

[maflynn]

Basically, we're comparing an EOL machine with a v1 machine. Remember that it took quite a few years for Apple to get the MBA's battery life up to its current levels. I think the key words are "in time."

I'm not disagreeing, in fact I agree that the rMB will become the gold standard - provided they (apple) address some of the short comings of the rMB. I think the biggest nut to crack is the battery life. Given how apple promoted the innovation of the battery and low power of the Core M processors, its disappointing to see it have much less battery life then the older MBAs

 

[Dark Void]

Huh, okay, so when you use synonyms for broken ("dead" and "cooked") you don't actually mean broken, and when we're discussing CPU lifespan, it's somehow irrelevant to talk about how many CPUs we've seen reach the end of their lifespan. Gotcha.

What I am saying is that you are all over the place and you're ignoring what I am saying and rather focusing on two words repeatedly. Get over it. I explained what I meant. Should I go back and edit my post or will you make a full recovery?

(BTW--as for fanless notebooks--you are showing your age, or at least lack of experience, with regard to computers. For a long time it was uncommon for CPUs to have heatsinks, much less fans. My first three laptops didn't have fans.)

I wonder why things went to heatsinks and fans. Could it be exactly what I am talking about?

 

[newellj]

I'm not disagreeing, in fact I agree that the rMB will become the gold standard - provided they (apple) address some of the short comings of the rMB. I think the biggest nut to crack is the battery life. Given how apple promoted the innovation of the battery and low power of the Core M processors, its disappointing to see it have much less battery life then the older MBAs

Sorry, I was agreeing with you.

I find the whole MBA thing such an interesting puzzle.

They started out with a hugely overpriced, underperforming product.

After several years and several iterations, they begin to home in on an iconic, segment-leading product (I'm thinking 2012-2013), although curiously refusing to update the display panel to what had become market standard in the product class and price point by 2012/2013 (should have had an IPS 1080p panel...).

Having developed an iconic product with tremendous market appeal - virtually the stereotype that people think of when "Apple notebook" was mentioned - Apple then proceeds to let this valuable brand and product wither on the vine (2014) and to all appearances in 2015 simply decides to walk away from all that market value and customer loyalty. It's a total mystery to me. At least my venting is on-topic in this thread.

 

[newellj]

What I am saying is that you are all over the place and you're ignoring what I am saying and rather focusing on two words repeatedly. Get over it. I explained what I meant. Should I go back and edit my post or will you make a full recovery?



I wonder why things went to heatsinks and fans. Could it be exactly what I am talking about?

Searching to lower the temperature in this discussion (pun intended ), I will observe that many Mac notebook owners seem to have different ideas than either of you about how to cool their laptops. How else do you explain the frequent posts about the results of attempts to run various Apple notebooks with liquid cooling???

 

[Dark Void]

Searching to lower the temperature in this discussion (pun intended ), I will observe that many Mac notebook owners seem to have different ideas than either of you about how to cool their laptops. How else do you explain the frequent posts about the results of attempts to run various Apple notebooks with liquid cooling???

Literally the only thing I am saying is I would not be surprised if these Core M's don't pan out in terms of longevity. I think I have offended.

I can repeat myself only so many times before I will give up.

 

[AlliFlowers]

This whole thread is fascinating. I find it particularly interesting that the single negative always come back to the display. There is still a large population out there (myself included), who doesn't see a difference looking at a retina screen and a nonretina screen. (My mother and I played that game when I had the iPad 2 and she got the 3 with retina...neither of us could see the difference.)

If you don't edit photos, and your idea of an audience is sharing photos on Facebook, retina is not such a big thing. Are the majority of business users (those who travel with their computers), doing things that require the r screen? Probably not. They are doing email, Word, spreadsheets, etc.

And since I think you are probably old enough to appreciate it, I'll add: GD&R.

I'm certainly old enough, and this is the first time I've seen that in years. Made me LOL.

 

[newellj]

Literally the only thing I am saying is I would not be surprised if these Core M's don't pan out in terms of longevity. I think I have offended.

I can repeat myself only so many times before I will give up.

I'm certainly not offended. Based on my results pushing a rMB, I think Core M will probably not only survive but thrive. The current engineering is already amazing, and there is a lot to be said for low-TDP passive cooling, starting with a lot of energy, weight and volume savings (sounds like an rMB pitch, but not intended as such). I would be surprised if Core M can be made to work in applications like the current quad core, dGPU laptops, at least in the next five-seven years, but I can see it pushing the current crop of 15w CPUs right out of the market for most ultracompact and ultrabook laptop uses. But that's just a guess.

 

[Dark Void]

Based on my results pushing a rMB, I think Core M will probably not only survive but thrive.

I would welcome this. I don't want it to be misinterpreted that I am predicting that it will fail long term - just that it wouldn't come as a shock. I feel that regardless of what it claims to draw, processors and other internals (dedicated GPUs namely in most notebooks) are air cooled for a reason. I suppose we will see what happens.

This whole thread is fascinating. I find it particularly interesting that the single negative always come back to the display. There is still a large population out there (myself included), who doesn't see a difference looking at a retina screen and a nonretina screen.

Fair enough for sure, but keep in mind also that a high resolution means scaling as well. Not only is the quality improved, but it is much more efficient to fit many windows on the screen simultaneously. Whether or not you notice the difference in pixels or not, people would be interested in this regardless.

However, to go hand in hand with what you're saying, some people may just flat out not prefer to have smaller windows on their desktop. It's all preference anyways.

 

[newellj]

I would welcome this. I don't want it to be misinterpreted that I am predicting that it will fail long term - just that it wouldn't come as a shock. I feel that regardless of what it claims to draw, processors and other internals (dedicated GPUs namely in most notebooks) are air cooled for a reason. I suppose we will see what happens.



Fair enough for sure, but keep in mind also that a high resolution means scaling as well. Not only is the quality improved, but it is much more efficient to fit many windows on the screen simultaneously. Whether or not you notice the difference in pixels or not, people would be interested in this regardless.

However, to go hand in hand with what you're saying, some people may just flat out not prefer to have smaller windows on their desktop. It's all preference anyways.

Please take this in the friendly spirit in which it is meant - the Core M *is* air-cooled. It's just that it's passively cooled, rather than actively. Honestly, thinking in a vacuum, wouldn't you love to get rid of fans? They can be noisy...they draw power...they take up space inside the case...they ingest dust and blow it around inside, which affects cooling...and ultimately, they fail. If I had the choice between two otherwise identically-performing versions of the same computer, I'd take fanless in a heartbeat: smaller, longer battery life, fewer parts...what's not to really like? The problem is that, today, you can't do it. But I think "progress" in tech is more likely to be figuring out better, more efficient technology than figuring out faster CPUs. But I am not a tech analyst...

 

[redheeler]

Sorry, I was agreeing with you.

I find the whole MBA thing such an interesting puzzle.

They started out with a hugely overpriced, underperforming product.

After several years and several iterations, they begin to home in on an iconic, segment-leading product (I'm thinking 2012-2013), although curiously refusing to update the display panel to what had become market standard in the product class and price point by 2012/2013 (should have had an IPS 1080p panel...).

Having developed an iconic product with tremendous market appeal - virtually the stereotype that people think of when "Apple notebook" was mentioned - Apple then proceeds to let this valuable brand and product wither on the vine (2014) and to all appearances in 2015 simply decides to walk away from all that market value and customer loyalty. It's a total mystery to me. At least my venting is on-topic in this thread.

As soon as the rMB came out (and no new rMBA) I knew that it will likely eventually replace the MBA. It's overpriced, underpowered, and under-ported, just like the first MBA was several years before it replaced the plastic MacBook.

Consider the Retina MacBook to be the revenge of the MacBook, and watch it follow the same pattern as the MBA did. Maybe it'll even gain another USB-C port in the process.

 

[motrek]

What I am saying is that you are all over the place and you're ignoring what I am saying and rather focusing on two words repeatedly. Get over it. I explained what I meant. Should I go back and edit my post or will you make a full recovery?

If you didn't write what you meant, fine. People make mistakes all the time. Who cares.

What I don't like are the comments you've made that imply that your miscommunications are somehow my fault, i.e., the idea that I don't "like" your (incorrect) choice of words, that you're over my head, that I'm being too literal, that I'm missing the point of a discussion when I replied to what you said instead of what you meant, and now these comments about how I should just "get over" all of this.

Take some responsibility for your mistakes and stop trying to put this in my court already.

I wonder why things went to heatsinks and fans. Could it be exactly what I am talking about?

Doubt it. I've experienced a fair number of chips overheating. I had a graphics card in the late 90s that would overheat. I'd get rendering artifacts and then it would just fail altogether and I'd have to reboot. Despite catastrophic overheating on a fairly regular basis, it continued to work for years and I eventually just sold it to somebody else when I upgraded. I'm sure that the overheating wasn't GOOD for its longevity but it wasn't the limiting factor in the board's overall longevity.

And that was back when (most) chips didn't have temperature sensors and they certainly didn't automatically adjust clock speed etc. in order to stay within certain power/thermal envelopes. Today's technology is clearly much more advanced so I'm almost certain that CPU failures won't be a limiting factor in Apple laptop longevity.

 

[Dark Void]

If you didn't write what you meant, fine. People make mistakes all the time. Who cares.

It wasn't a mistake. It's just how I speak and type. I explained what I meant. It's unusable when you task it and it continues to shut down. Is that okay?

What I don't like are the comments you've made that imply that your miscommunications are somehow my fault, i.e., the idea that I don't "like" your (incorrect) choice of words, that you're over my head, that I'm being too literal, that I'm missing the point of a discussion when I replied to what you said instead of what you meant, and now these comments about how I should just "get over" all of this. Take some responsibility for your mistakes and stop trying to put this in my court already.

I wouldn't even be going back and forth with you if you weren't policing my posts and nitpicking portions of them. You should get over it.

Doubt it. I've experienced a fair number of chips overheating. I had a graphics card in the late 90s that would overheat. I'd get rendering artifacts and then it would just fail altogether and I'd have to reboot. Despite catastrophic overheating on a fairly regular basis, it continued to work for years and I eventually just sold it to somebody else when I upgraded. I'm sure that the overheating wasn't GOOD for its longevity but it wasn't the limiting factor in the board's overall longevity. And that was back when (most) chips didn't have temperature sensors and they certainly didn't automatically adjust clock speed etc. in order to stay within certain power/thermal envelopes. Today's technology is clearly much more advanced so I'm almost certain that CPU failures won't be a limiting factor in Apple laptop longevity.

That's fine that you doubt it. It doesn't affect my opinions and what I am thinking. Do you usually go to this length to disagree with someone? How have I offended you?

Please take this in the friendly spirit in which it is meant - the Core M *is* air-cooled. It's just that it's passively cooled, rather than actively. Honestly, thinking in a vacuum, wouldn't you love to get rid of fans? They can be noisy...they draw power...they take up space inside the case...they ingest dust and blow it around inside, which affects cooling...and ultimately, they fail. If I had the choice between two otherwise identically-performing versions of the same computer, I'd take fanless in a heartbeat: smaller, longer battery life, fewer parts...what's not to really like? The problem is that, today, you can't do it. But I think "progress" in tech is more likely to be figuring out better, more efficient technology than figuring out faster CPUs. But I am not a tech analyst...

Sure, but not at the cost of performance. What's not to like is the power that such a processor provides, within these early stages. I'm aware that technology can advance to the point where fans can be eliminated altogether - right now - no.

I'm not opposed to the design and where it is headed by any means. I don't want to make sacrifices for things I don't care about however, and that is why this particular notebook is not for me. I don't think it is a bad choice for everyone.

 

[motrek]

...
That's fine that you doubt it. It doesn't affect my opinions and what I am thinking. Do you usually go to this length to disagree with someone? How have I offended you?
...

You've offended me by posting FUD about "multitudes of dead or cooked processors" with no technical justification whatsoever for this idea and then failing to take any responsibility for it, with a bunch of handwaving about how I'm being too literal, or that's just how you talk, or some gibberish about how a "dead" processor is just one that has temporarily turned itself off, or about how it's just a possibility and you wouldn't be surprised if it did or didn't happen, blah blah blah.

You might think the things you say are borderline irrelevant but they can still annoy other people.

 

[Dark Void]

You've offended me by posting FUD about "multitudes of dead or cooked processors" with no technical justification whatsoever for this idea and then failing to take any responsibility for it, with a bunch of handwaving about how I'm being too literal, or that's just how you talk, or some gibberish about how a "dead" processor is just one that has temporarily turned itself off, or about how it's just a possibility and you wouldn't be surprised if it did or didn't happen, blah blah blah. You might think the things you say are borderline irrelevant but they can still annoy other people.

I apologize for offending you. That was not my intention.

 

[JBat]

If it weren't for the tragic screen, I'd agree that the Air would be the gold standard of all laptops.

LOL. Gimme a break. There are a lot of tragedies on this planet; computer screens are not among them.

 

[Newtons Apple]

Gold standard? They don't get more gold than this:

It has no ports, enough said!

 

[Melrose]

The MBA is the gold standard because it is the defacto laptop being used by people on the go, it is the popular model. The video had a number of metrics it was basing what it thought a laptop ought to have and the MBA met all those metrics.

Overall I do think the rMB may unseat the MBA as the standard laptop for road warriors but in time, but its lackluster battery life may inhibit this, since the MBA's battery lasts a lot longer.

Apple has actually inadvertently shot the Air in the head unless they give it a Retina display. Everyone was doing medium resolution; The Retina laptops come out, and several pundits cried over how basically pointless it was - now that's ever what everyone wants. Me, I don't mind; I'm fine with the 125-135PPI res on the old 17"s and the Airs; I don't need a nicer display at the cost of battery life and performance.

 

[redheeler]

It has no ports, enough said!

Actually, it has two ports. Many people don't seem to give it credit for the audio out port, but it's still an important one to have. If that wasn't the case there would likely be another USB-C port there.

Apple has actually inadvertently shot the Air in the head unless they give it a Retina display. Everyone was doing medium resolution; The Retina laptops come out, and several pundits cried over how basically pointless it was - now that's ever what everyone wants. Me, I don't mind; I'm fine with the 125-135PPI res on the old 17"s and the Airs; I don't need a nicer display at the cost of battery life and performance.

I have thought Retina to be a necessity since my very first Mac, a mid 2012 rMBP. Once you go Retina, you don't go back

 

[Newtons Apple]

I have thought Retina to be a necessity since my very first Mac, a mid 2012 rMBP. Once you go Retina, you don't go back

NOT for me. I returned a MacBook Pro 15 Retina because the text would not format correctly on Windows 7 Pro via BootCamp. No matter what I tried it was too small or would screw up the rest of the display. I bought a full loaded Air 13 with NO Retina and all is great!

 

[redheeler]

NOT for me. I returned a MacBook Pro 15 Retina because the text would not format correctly on Windows 7 Pro via BootCamp. No matter what I tried it was too small or would screw up the rest of the display. I bought a full loaded Air 13 with NO Retina and all is great!

Win8 handles Retina displays much better, but still not as nicely as OS X. I ran it in Bootcamp on the mid 2012 15" rMBP for a while and it did ok.

I was using my non-Retina mid 2010 27" iMac for a while as my main Mac before the 27" Retina came out and hated the display. It has a similar display quality to the horribly outdated panels still used on the Airs.

For me, non-Retina Macs work as secondary Macs for brief usage. But for my main Mac, I'm simply not willing to downgrade my entire usage experience with a non-Retina or non-IPS display.